The Swap File and your privacy.

[jimpgh2002]

Now how would you have the SLIGHTEST idea how many friends I have? Get
a grip.


Good for you. I'm real happy for you.

Others (my friends - and relatives - among them) haven't been so lucky.


When was the last time you priced RDRAM? Not only that, but I'd have
to replace all of my existing ram because the slots are full and the
modules have to be identical.

Besides, what's your problem? If you don't like this discussion, as I
suggested, why don't you move on to the next thread?

Who said that I didn't like this discussion?

BTW, I made another internet purchase earlier today...am now waiting
for the spam to pour in and/or my identity to be stolen.

Excuse me now, I've got to go purge my swap file before they upload
it.

 

[Mel]

Have you checked the [386Enh] section in System.ini for a
"MinPagingFileSize=" entry?

All it says is "Paging=on". I let Windows manage the swap file size.
While setting a min-max swap file size would limit the amount of
personal data that winds up in the swap file, it would not eliminate
it. My minimum swap file size seems to be 104,857,000 bytes.

I've created the following batch file:

dir C:\WINDOWS\WIN386.SWP

named it "view swap.bat" and put a shortcut to it on the desktop. I
check the swap file size every time I reboot.

I just tried renaming my normal swapfile and rebooting and deleting the new
swapfile
a few times with no min size set (windows 98).

The new swapfile it creates on loading windows was typically about 64Meg
(Probably due to my start-up progs)
Adding a MinPagingFileSize=10 got mine down to 8KB.

I normally have my swapfile's min size set to 1 gig to avoid excessive
fragmentation.

If you have lots of ram I guess you could consider experimenting with the
ConservativeSwapfileUsage=1 option. While this won't shrink the swapfile,
it should reduce its usage (if ME supports it).

NOTE this should also adversely effect performance although some windows 98
users report the opposite.

For details see-
http://aumha.org/win4/a/memmgmt.htm


For a list of system.ini options see
http://members.aol.com/axcel216/lastweek.htm

 

[John Corliss]

Have you checked the [386Enh] section in System.ini for a
"MinPagingFileSize=" entry?

All it says is "Paging=on". I let Windows manage the swap file size.
While setting a min-max swap file size would limit the amount of
personal data that winds up in the swap file, it would not eliminate
it. My minimum swap file size seems to be 104,857,000 bytes.

I've created the following batch file:

dir C:\WINDOWS\WIN386.SWP

named it "view swap.bat" and put a shortcut to it on the desktop. I
check the swap file size every time I reboot.

I just tried renaming my normal swapfile and rebooting and deleting the new
swapfile a few times with no min size set (windows 98).
The new swapfile it creates on loading windows was typically about 64Meg
(Probably due to my start-up progs)
Adding a MinPagingFileSize=10 got mine down to 8KB.

I'll give it a try. Thanks.

I normally have my swapfile's min size set to 1 gig to avoid excessive
fragmentation.
If you have lots of ram I guess you could consider experimenting with the
ConservativeSwapfileUsage=1 option. While this won't shrink the swapfile,
it should reduce its usage (if ME supports it).
NOTE this should also adversely effect performance although some windows 98
users report the opposite.

For details see- http://aumha.org/win4/a/memmgmt.htm

Thanks, Mel. This is one of the things I was looking for.

For a list of system.ini options see
http://members.aol.com/axcel216/lastweek.htm

This is a page from what I consider to be the best tweaking resource
on the internet.

Thanks for your help, Mel.

 

[John Corliss]

I just added a batch file - swapkill.bat:

-----------------------------------------------------
C:\temp\swapkill\swapkill
pause // just to see your program
-----------------------------------------------------

I call this from my autoexec.bat:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

@C:\PROGRA~1\GRISOFT\AVG6\bootup.exe
@echo off
path C:\WINDOWS;C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND;C:\PROGRA~1\GRISOFT\AVG6;C:\BIN
SET BLASTER=A220 I7 D1 T2
SET SNDSCAPE=C:\WINDOWS
SET SNDSCAPE=C:\WINDOWS
SET PATH=%PATH%;C:\PROGRA~1\NETWOR~1\PGP

call swapkill.bat
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It works like a charm in 98se. It takes the additional few seconds,
but it wipes and deletes at boot perfectly and then Windows boots up
and starts over from scratch with a clean swap file.

The 'call' suspends booting until swapkill.bat executes and returns
control to the autoexec.bat file.

First I modified my John.bat file to read like this:

ATTRIB -R -A -S -H c:\WINDOWS\win386.swp
DEL c:\WINDOWS\win386.swp
ATTRIB -R -A -S -H c:\WINDOWS\COOKIES\INDEX.DAT
DEL c:\WINDOWS\COOKIES\INDEX.DAT
ATTRIB -R -A -S -H c:\WINDOWS\HISTORY\HISTORY.IE5\INDEX.DAT
DEL c:\WINDOWS\HISTORY\HISTORY.IE5\INDEX.DAT
ATTRIB -R -A -S -H c:\WINDOWS\TEMPOR~1\CONTENT.IE5\INDEX.DAT
DEL c:\WINDOWS\TEMPOR~1\CONTENT.IE5\INDEX.DAT
ATTRIB -R -A -S -H
C:\WINDOWS\APPLIC~1\MICROS~1\INTERN~1\USERDATA\INDEX.DAT
DEL C:\WINDOWS\APPLIC~1\MICROS~1\INTERN~1\USERDATA\INDEX.DAT
EXIT

Next, I used regedit to remove the string value I was using to
activate my batch file. It was located here:

HKLM/SOFTWARE/Microsoft/Windows/Currentversion/Runservices

Since I use ME, I had to use System Configuration to alter my
autoexec.bat file to include the following:

call John.bat

I had to reboot and reactivate the line in System Configuration twice
for some reason (it always does this when I add something to the
autoexec.bat file) before the system kept a checkmark by the entry.

I don't see the batch file DOS window and error messages regarding
sharing violations anymore, and can only assume that the file is being
successfully deleted before Windows starts and applies protection to
the file. However, although the index.dat files are still deleted, the
swap file still comes up as it's previous size.
I'm beginning to wonder if all that's happening is that Windows
remembers the swap file's previous size and then on reboot creates a
new one that size which is largely empty at that point except for
startup program info. This would kind of make sense, since if you
needed a swap file that size the last time you ran Windows, it might
be a good idea to set that much aside in advance during the new
session. To verify whether or not this is so, I presume I will have to
do a copy of each (before and after) and then do a checksum?

 

[John Corliss]

Who said that I didn't like this discussion?

What is it that you like about it? Making fun of me? Trying to provoke
an argument by being abusive? Exercising your false superiority complex?

BTW, I made another internet purchase earlier today...am now waiting
for the spam to pour in and/or my identity to be stolen.

Good for you. I'm real proud of you.

Excuse me now, I've got to go purge my swap file before they upload
it.

Well, enough of this. I'm not going to waste my time trying to talk
reasonably with an abusive individual like you. In addition to that,
I'm going to filter out all of your messages (unless you use sock
puppets, in which case I'll know for sure that you're a troll.)

 

[REMbranded]

John Corliss <[email protected]#> wrote:

First I modified my John.bat file to read like this:

add:

dir c:\Windows\*.swp \\should show it

ATTRIB -R -A -S -H c:\WINDOWS\win386.swp
DEL c:\WINDOWS\win386.swp

dir c:\Windows\*.swp \\ should not show it

ATTRIB -R -A -S -H c:\WINDOWS\COOKIES\INDEX.DAT
DEL c:\WINDOWS\COOKIES\INDEX.DAT
ATTRIB -R -A -S -H c:\WINDOWS\HISTORY\HISTORY.IE5\INDEX.DAT
DEL c:\WINDOWS\HISTORY\HISTORY.IE5\INDEX.DAT
ATTRIB -R -A -S -H c:\WINDOWS\TEMPOR~1\CONTENT.IE5\INDEX.DAT
DEL c:\WINDOWS\TEMPOR~1\CONTENT.IE5\INDEX.DAT
ATTRIB -R -A -S -H
C:\WINDOWS\APPLIC~1\MICROS~1\INTERN~1\USERDATA\INDEX.DAT
DEL C:\WINDOWS\APPLIC~1\MICROS~1\INTERN~1\USERDATA\INDEX.DAT
EXIT

Next, I used regedit to remove the string value I was using to
activate my batch file. It was located here:

Since I use ME, I had to use System Configuration to alter my
autoexec.bat file to include the following:

call John.bat

I had to reboot and reactivate the line in System Configuration twice
for some reason (it always does this when I add something to the
autoexec.bat file) before the system kept a checkmark by the entry.

I don't see the batch file DOS window and error messages regarding
sharing violations anymore, and can only assume that the file is being
successfully deleted before Windows starts and applies protection to
the file. However, although the index.dat files are still deleted, the
swap file still comes up as it's previous size.

I wish I was better acquainted with ME. You might try adding "pause"
after each command in john.bat so that you can see any error or
success messages. You'll have to press return after looking at each
result, and then you can remove the pauses when you are sure what is
happening.

Another approach is to redirect your call to a file:

call john.bat > c:\john.txt

This should create the text and redirect all output to it in your
root. (easy to find there)

I'm beginning to wonder if all that's happening is that Windows
remembers the swap file's previous size and then on reboot creates a
new one that size which is largely empty at that point except for
startup program info. This would kind of make sense, since if you
needed a swap file that size the last time you ran Windows, it might
be a good idea to set that much aside in advance during the new
session. To verify whether or not this is so, I presume I will have to
do a copy of each (before and after) and then do a checksum?

It could be. I'm just not familar enough to take a gander. There are
two types of swap files though, temporary (windows decides) and
permanent (fixed size that you decide) in 98SE.

Hman has a pretty nifty utility that you might substitute for
john.bat, if that bat is doing the job. It wipes and deletes the
sucker.

 

[John Corliss]

Geeez John! Simplty follow the simple instructions on the screen for
moving the highlight up and down! Use the U and D keys if you like or
the Ctrl-PgUp and PgDn keys.

I give up

Now calm down, Art. What I'm saying is that it wouldn't work using the
arrow keys like I expected. I'm a little under the weather right now
(fighting an ugly flu - Oregon is the most heavily impacted state this
year) and I'm running a fever. I just tried your "U" and "D" and it
works very nicely. A very nice little program. Thanks. However, as you
say, I'll need to reboot into a realmode DOS session in order to view
the swap file.

I've been thinking about your XXCopy method of restoring the hard
drive and I am beginnig to really like the idea. Currently I use the
following commnand:

C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\XXCOPY.EXE c:\ d:\ /clone /YY
/xC:\WINDOWS\WIN386.SWP /xC:\_RESTORE\*

to do a backup. So I presume that in order to do a restoration, I
would simply reverse the directories so that it reads:

C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\XXCOPY.EXE d:\ c:\ /clone /YY
/xC:\WINDOWS\WIN386.SWP /xC:\_RESTORE\*

If this works (and I see no reason why it shouldn't) then as you
suggest, I can eliminate System Restore and the command would then
look like this:

C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\XXCOPY.EXE d:\ c:\ /clone /YY /xC:\WINDOWS\WIN386.SWP

Is it safe to assume that even the registry would be restored? Whoops.
This points out another issue, but not a biggie. I'd have to do the
restore from a DOS boot in order to overwrite files that normally
would be in use by Windows. Not sure how to preserve long file names,
but I'll look into it.

 

[John Corliss]

add:

dir c:\Windows\*.swp \\should show it


dir c:\Windows\*.swp \\ should not show it

Right now, I can't see processes that're running during boot, so this
wouldn't work for me. This is because even though I have the Windows
startup splash screen deactivated, my monitor only displays the
following line:

Starting Windows Millennium...

with a flashing cursor a couple of lines below it until the UI is loaded.
Presumeably, this is part of Microsoft's idiotic attempt to
convince the public that Windows 9X is the actual operating system
rather than simply a graphical overlay to DOS as it really is.
If you know a way to stop this behavior, I'm all ears. 80)>

I wish I was better acquainted with ME. You might try adding "pause"
after each command in john.bat so that you can see any error or
success messages. You'll have to press return after looking at each
result, and then you can remove the pauses when you are sure what is
happening.

My earlier remark applies here too.

Another approach is to redirect your call to a file:

call john.bat > c:\john.txt

This should create the text and redirect all output to it in your
root. (easy to find there)

Now this I like. I'll give it a try. Thanks for the tip.

It could be. I'm just not familar enough to take a gander. There are
two types of swap files though, temporary (windows decides) and
permanent (fixed size that you decide) in 98SE.

It seems that most of the tweak sites recommend letting Windows
determine the swap file size in ME.

Hman has a pretty nifty utility that you might substitute for
john.bat, if that bat is doing the job. It wipes and deletes the
sucker.

So I noticed. However, from the readme file:

"For this to work in ME you first need to apply the realmode patch."

and I haven't decided whether or not doing this is a good idea yet.

 

[null]

Now calm down, Art. What I'm saying is that it wouldn't work using the
arrow keys like I expected. I'm a little under the weather right now
(fighting an ugly flu - Oregon is the most heavily impacted state this
year) and I'm running a fever. I just tried your "U" and "D" and it
works very nicely. A very nice little program. Thanks.

Thanks, and hang in there

However, as you
say, I'll need to reboot into a realmode DOS session in order to view
the swap file.

Yes. FBROWSER will sense the environment and switch automatically to
short file and directory names.

I've been thinking about your XXCopy method of restoring the hard
drive and I am beginnig to really like the idea. Currently I use the
following commnand:

C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\XXCOPY.EXE c:\ d:\ /clone /YY
/xC:\WINDOWS\WIN386.SWP /xC:\_RESTORE\*

I don't exclude the swap file (and I have no C_RESTORE any more) since
I use my CLONEXX program which copies the swap file in order to enable
a verification check. The total number of bytes then must agree (among
several other things) or you can choose to Retry. Usually with no more
than one retry I find that the verification criteria are met. But it's
important to do the verification check since sometimes the cloning
isn't exact the first time.

to do a backup. So I presume that in order to do a restoration, I
would simply reverse the directories so that it reads:

C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\XXCOPY.EXE d:\ c:\ /clone /YY
/xC:\WINDOWS\WIN386.SWP /xC:\_RESTORE\*

If this works (and I see no reason why it shouldn't) then as you
suggest, I can eliminate System Restore and the command would then
look like this:

C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\XXCOPY.EXE d:\ c:\ /clone /YY /xC:\WINDOWS\WIN386.SWP

Is it safe to assume that even the registry would be restored?

It's not the registry to be concerned with I don't think but other
Windows files will probably be locked and you won't be able to copy
them back while Windoze is active.

Whoops.
This points out another issue, but not a biggie. I'd have to do the
restore from a DOS boot in order to overwrite files that normally
would be in use by Windows. Not sure how to preserve long file names,
but I'll look into it.

I don't think that's a good approach either since you'd have to use
XXCOPY16 and that's restricted by DOS short path limitations.

I don't do things that way, and if you're really used to using System
Restore and you're happy with it you should probably continue to use
it.

I've only done one _selective_ restore using XXCOPY while in Windows.
That restore didn't involve Windows files that may be locked. It was a
data or program restoration. I don't find that I ever need to restore
Windows. I do things the way I did them for many years on Win 98. I
treat my cloned drive as strictly a emergency alternate drive in case
of disasters like a hard drive crash or severe damage due to malicious
code (which I avoid like the plague ) I handle the problems created
by crappy or buggy software without doing any kind of drive restore.


Art
http://www.epix.net/~artnpeg

 

[H-Man]

Right now, I can't see processes that're running during boot, so this
wouldn't work for me. This is because even though I have the Windows
startup splash screen deactivated, my monitor only displays the
following line:

Starting Windows Millennium...

with a flashing cursor a couple of lines below it until the UI is loaded.
Presumeably, this is part of Microsoft's idiotic attempt to
convince the public that Windows 9X is the actual operating system
rather than simply a graphical overlay to DOS as it really is.
If you know a way to stop this behavior, I'm all ears. 80)>


My earlier remark applies here too.


Now this I like. I'll give it a try. Thanks for the tip.


It seems that most of the tweak sites recommend letting Windows
determine the swap file size in ME.


So I noticed. However, from the readme file:

"For this to work in ME you first need to apply the realmode patch."

and I haven't decided whether or not doing this is a good idea yet.

John;
The readme refers to the execution of the file in the autoexec.bat file. I'm
not too familiar with Windows ME so please forgive any inaccuracy in the
readme. As well I will update and change the readme as new information comes
to light. The program however is a DOS program, not a 32bit console program.
I could make it one, but the problem as I see it, would be finding the point
where a 32 bit console program will run and the GUI hasn't yet locked the
file in question. My guess is that if you can run a batch file, you should
be able to run Swapkill from that batch file and have it run. The DOS VM
should be available if this is the case. The output can be redirected to an
output file by using the command SWAPKILL > swapkill.log or whatever you
want the file to be named, should be an 8.3 name. The only problem with this
is that if there's an error, the program will pause by default and will
require a keypress to exit. So, I can add a command line switch to make it
not pause if there's an error. If this is going to work for you, let me
know, and I'll add it in. I'm also thinking of adding a command line switch
to allow one to just delete the file and not wipe it. You could use this for
the index.dat and any of the other files you need deleted. You can wipe them
before deleting, this way you can be sure they're gone. Let me know if you
need changes made, it's just a quickie I worked up to help out so the source
is still fresh in my mind.
HK

 

[jimpgh2002]

What is it that you like about it? Making fun of me? Trying to provoke
an argument by being abusive? Exercising your false superiority complex?


Good for you. I'm real proud of you.


Well, enough of this. I'm not going to waste my time trying to talk
reasonably with an abusive individual like you. In addition to that,
I'm going to filter out all of your messages (unless you use sock
puppets, in which case I'll know for sure that you're a troll.)

Oh no, I am shocked, shocked I say. How will I survive without you
reading my posts?
The funny thing is that I know you're still gonna read this, but you
can't respond to it or it will blow your cover.
Bottom line - You need to lighten up & get a sense of humor.

 

[REMbranded]

Right now, I can't see processes that're running during boot, so this
wouldn't work for me. This is because even though I have the Windows
startup splash screen deactivated, my monitor only displays the
following line:

Starting Windows Millennium...

with a flashing cursor a couple of lines below it until the UI is loaded.
Presumeably, this is part of Microsoft's idiotic attempt to
convince the public that Windows 9X is the actual operating system
rather than simply a graphical overlay to DOS as it really is.
If you know a way to stop this behavior, I'm all ears. 80)>

I have a Phoenix bios. The setup key is F1 early in the boot. There
is an option to display a boot diagnostics screen that 'might' solve
this. At least you can see that your devices load correctly, rather
than watch a blinking cursor. After diagnostics I get a quick splash
screen and then I can see my autoexec.bat execute before Windoze
loads up.

I recall that I used to get a menu for safe boot, boot to DOS, etc.
for whatever number of seconds I selected. I don't get it since my
last reinstall and I don't see the option in the bios settings, so
that must be a Windoze setting somewhere.

 

[Kan Yabumoto]

I did not read the entire thread which is too long for
me to follow. Just my comments on the "restore" operation.

I've been thinking about your XXCopy method of restoring the hard
drive and I am beginnig to really like the idea. Currently I use the
following commnand:

C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\XXCOPY.EXE c:\ d:\ /clone /YY
/xC:\WINDOWS\WIN386.SWP /xC:\_RESTORE\*

to do a backup. So I presume that in order to do a restoration, I
would simply reverse the directories so that it reads:

C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\XXCOPY.EXE d:\ c:\ /clone /YY
/xC:\WINDOWS\WIN386.SWP /xC:\_RESTORE\*

If this works (and I see no reason why it shouldn't) then as you
suggest, I can eliminate System Restore and the command would then
look like this:

C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\XXCOPY.EXE d:\ c:\ /clone /YY /xC:\WINDOWS\WIN386.SWP

I'm pretty sure that you must have been disappointed to find that
that there were quite a few stubborn files that failed to copy.
On a given Windows system there are tens of programs (many of
which are DLLs) that are currently running.

You won't be able to overwrite these files. In essence, a restore
works on a directory whose contents are not currently used
(e.g., most user-generated files). The most problematic area
where you fail (regardless of the tools you use) is in the \Windows
directory. The reason why XXCOPY can make a good backup directory
using xxcopy c:\ d:\ /clone is because the access to the
key files are for read-only purposes.

If you already have a good backup in D: (using the /clone command),
there is a simple trick to get around the restore problem.

1. xxcopy d:\windows\ c:\wintemp\ /clone/yy // restore to a temp dir
2. shut down the system and reboot into a DOS environment.
3. using the rename command, swap c:\windows\ and c:\wintemp\.

ren \windows winold
ren \wintemp windows

4. reboot.

Note: WinME (which I haven't used for some time) may have additional
files that cannot be overwritten that are outside Windows directory).
If you find any file that refuses to be written to the proper directory,
you can use the same technique (copy as a different file and rename
it in DOS).

Is it safe to assume that even the registry would be restored?

Using this technique, you can restore the whole \windows\ directory
that contains the system registry files.

Whoops.
This points out another issue, but not a biggie. I'd have to do the
restore from a DOS boot in order to overwrite files that normally
would be in use by Windows. Not sure how to preserve long file names,
but I'll look into it.

The above renaming technique works well in DOS even if the \windows\
directory contains the LFN as long as the item being renamed is
in 8.3.

Kan Yabumoto
The Author of XXCopy

 

[John Corliss]

(snip)
I don't do things that way, and if you're really used to using System
Restore and you're happy with it you should probably continue to use
it.

I've only done one _selective_ restore using XXCOPY while in Windows.
That restore didn't involve Windows files that may be locked. It was a
data or program restoration. I don't find that I ever need to restore
Windows. I do things the way I did them for many years on Win 98. I
treat my cloned drive as strictly a emergency alternate drive in case
of disasters like a hard drive crash or severe damage due to malicious
code (which I avoid like the plague ) I handle the problems created
by crappy or buggy software without doing any kind of drive restore.

Art,
I think I'll just stick with the way I've been doing things as far
as system restorations after trying a program go. That means backing
up the registry and restoring it using System Restore or Scanregw,
cleaning the registry, monitoring installs using Catfish and-or Total
Uninstall, etc. Every once in a while I do a total uninstall and
reinstall. This cleans out programs that I don't use and orphan .dll
files. Also, it restores certain system files that have been modified
by "system updates" and some of those modifications can not be in my
best interests.

 

[John Corliss]

I did not read the entire thread which is too long for
me to follow. Just my comments on the "restore" operation.

John Corliss wrote:



I'm pretty sure that you must have been disappointed to find that
that there were quite a few stubborn files that failed to copy.

No, not really. The only exclusions I noticed (via the warnings your
program gives) were the _RESTORE folder and the swap file, and I don't
care about those.

On a given Windows system there are tens of programs (many of
which are DLLs) that are currently running.
You won't be able to overwrite these files. In essence, a restore
works on a directory whose contents are not currently used
(e.g., most user-generated files). The most problematic area
where you fail (regardless of the tools you use) is in the \Windows
directory. The reason why XXCOPY can make a good backup directory
using xxcopy c:\ d:\ /clone is because the access to the
key files are for read-only purposes.

If you already have a good backup in D: (using the /clone command),
there is a simple trick to get around the restore problem.

1. xxcopy d:\windows\ c:\wintemp\ /clone/yy // restore to a temp dir
2. shut down the system and reboot into a DOS environment.
3. using the rename command, swap c:\windows\ and c:\wintemp\.

ren \windows winold
ren \wintemp windows

4. reboot.

Note: WinME (which I haven't used for some time) may have additional
files that cannot be overwritten that are outside Windows directory).
If you find any file that refuses to be written to the proper directory,
you can use the same technique (copy as a different file and rename
it in DOS).


Using this technique, you can restore the whole \windows\ directory
that contains the system registry files.



The above renaming technique works well in DOS even if the \windows\
directory contains the LFN as long as the item being renamed is
in 8.3.

Ken,
Thanks for your suggestions, but I think I'll continue to use
XXCopy as I've been doing - to back up my user generated files mainly.
As I replied to Art, "I think I'll just stick with the way I've been
doing things as far as system restorations after trying a program go.
That means backing up the registry and restoring it using System
Restore or Scanregw, cleaning the registry, monitoring installs using
Catfish and-or Total Uninstall, etc. Every once in a while I do a
total uninstall and reinstall. This cleans out programs that I don't
use and orphan .dll files. Also, it restores certain system files that
have been modified by 'system updates' and some of those modifications
can not be in my best interests."

 

[null]

I did not read the entire thread which is too long for
me to follow. Just my comments on the "restore" operation.





I'm pretty sure that you must have been disappointed to find that
that there were quite a few stubborn files that failed to copy.
On a given Windows system there are tens of programs (many of
which are DLLs) that are currently running.

You won't be able to overwrite these files. In essence, a restore
works on a directory whose contents are not currently used
(e.g., most user-generated files). The most problematic area
where you fail (regardless of the tools you use) is in the \Windows
directory. The reason why XXCOPY can make a good backup directory
using xxcopy c:\ d:\ /clone is because the access to the
key files are for read-only purposes.

If you already have a good backup in D: (using the /clone command),
there is a simple trick to get around the restore problem.

1. xxcopy d:\windows\ c:\wintemp\ /clone/yy // restore to a temp dir
2. shut down the system and reboot into a DOS environment.
3. using the rename command, swap c:\windows\ and c:\wintemp\.

ren \windows winold
ren \wintemp windows

4. reboot.

Now, c:\wintemp is the mother of all "swap files"

This is indeed a cool trick. Not recommended for users hard up for
drive space on C: but certainly not a problem for many of us.

To prevent rountine cloning of \winold to the backup drive, you would
want to do a deltree /y c:\winold before doing your next routine
backup to D:

Note: WinME (which I haven't used for some time) may have additional
files that cannot be overwritten that are outside Windows directory).
If you find any file that refuses to be written to the proper directory,
you can use the same technique (copy as a different file and rename
it in DOS).

There is the c_restore set of subdirectories associated with System
Restore. Elsewhere in this thread, one or two links were given to
sites which offer utilities for permanently disabling System Restore
(for those of us who want to go this way). You can do a deltree /y
c:_restore in "pure" DOS on Win ME to get this off the hard drive if
you go this way. There's more stuff that can be gotten rid of as well.
Perhaps the entire PC Health set of subdirectories. I haven't bothered
to delete these yet.

Using this technique, you can restore the whole \windows\ directory
that contains the system registry files.


The above renaming technique works well in DOS even if the \windows\
directory contains the LFN as long as the item being renamed is
in 8.3.

IOW the "parent" subdirectory name must be 8.3. I believe that's what
you're saying. All subdirectories and files under it can be LFN.

Kan Yabumoto
The Author of XXCopy

There's another consideration (at least). I use Mozilla email which,
by default, Saves its email archives under a \windows subdirectory.
When restoring Windows, I might lose recent email if I'm not careful
unless I either find a way of changing Mozilla default Saving location
or maintain a separate backup for this kind of data and other
important data.

What I've done is to split my backup drive into D: and E: partitions.
I use E: to selectively backup important data such as my email
archives and other data I consider important. I like the idea of
redundant backups.

Some observers might well think that eradicating System Restore on
Windows ME only to use a more awkward method doesn't make any sense.
However, I prefer having my backup physically separate from the system
I'm trying to protect. I have my backup drive on a removable tray.

Thanks for the idea, Kan. I have a feeling I was on the verge of
"inventing" a trick like that myself but just hadn't gotten that far.


Art
http://www.epix.net/~artnpeg

 

[John Corliss]

Thanks, and hang in there




Yes. FBROWSER will sense the environment and switch automatically to
short file and directory names.




I don't exclude the swap file (and I have no C_RESTORE any more) since
I use my CLONEXX program which copies the swap file in order to enable
a verification check. The total number of bytes then must agree (among
several other things) or you can choose to Retry. Usually with no more
than one retry I find that the verification criteria are met. But it's
important to do the verification check since sometimes the cloning
isn't exact the first time.




It's not the registry to be concerned with I don't think but other
Windows files will probably be locked and you won't be able to copy
them back while Windoze is active.




I don't think that's a good approach either since you'd have to use
XXCOPY16 and that's restricted by DOS short path limitations.

I don't do things that way, and if you're really used to using System
Restore and you're happy with it you should probably continue to use
it.

I've only done one _selective_ restore using XXCOPY while in Windows.
That restore didn't involve Windows files that may be locked. It was a
data or program restoration. I don't find that I ever need to restore
Windows. I do things the way I did them for many years on Win 98. I
treat my cloned drive as strictly a emergency alternate drive in case
of disasters like a hard drive crash or severe damage due to malicious
code (which I avoid like the plague ) I handle the problems created
by crappy or buggy software without doing any kind of drive restore.

Art,
This morning I used your program to view the swap file and as you
said, it workds very nicely. However, I do have one request. When I
hit enter on the swap file, your program asks me if I want to view the
file in a hex/text viewer. While this is nice on some occasions, would
it be possible to add the ability to view a file in a text only mode?

TIA

 

[null]

Art,
This morning I used your program to view the swap file and as you
said, it workds very nicely. However, I do have one request. When I
hit enter on the swap file, your program asks me if I want to view the
file in a hex/text viewer. While this is nice on some occasions, would
it be possible to add the ability to view a file in a text only mode?

I had considered adding a text viewer capability in addition to the
combo hex/text view. But for viewing many text files (and for viewing
non-encrypted embedded text in binaries) I felt that the hex/text view
is sufficient. The purpose is primarily the latter anyway. Often you
want to view text embedded in binary files,

In DOS mode you have the DOS Editor available and in Windows there
are, as you know, endless programs for viewing/editing. One reason to
add the capability might be to handle very large text files in DOS
that the DOS editor can't handle. But then I think of not just plain
ASCII text files but also PDF, RTF and Word DOC files and being able
to read them in DOS mode. Now, that would be quite a project


Art
http://www.epix.net/~artnpeg

 

[John Corliss]

I had considered adding a text viewer capability in addition to the
combo hex/text view. But for viewing many text files (and for viewing
non-encrypted embedded text in binaries) I felt that the hex/text view
is sufficient. The purpose is primarily the latter anyway. Often you
want to view text embedded in binary files,
In DOS mode you have the DOS Editor available and in Windows there
are, as you know, endless programs for viewing/editing. One reason to
add the capability might be to handle very large text files in DOS
that the DOS editor can't handle. But then I think of not just plain
ASCII text files but also PDF, RTF and Word DOC files and being able
to read them in DOS mode. Now, that would be quite a project

Art,
Sorry. I was only thinking from the perspective of viewing the huge
swap file. The hex code side of the screen takes up more space than
the text side. I was thinking that it would be nice to be able to sort
of extract the text from the file. But I certainly understand why you
don't want to add that capability.

 

[null]

Art,
Sorry. I was only thinking from the perspective of viewing the huge
swap file. The hex code side of the screen takes up more space than
the text side. I was thinking that it would be nice to be able to sort
of extract the text from the file. But I certainly understand why you
don't want to add that capability.

There is no way short of artificial intelligence to sort out arbitrary
intelligible text from a binary file. You would have to look in a
context of a number of bytes and see if groups of characters "make
sense" as intelligible text. IOW, the machine would have to do what
the human eye and brain do so easily that we forget how difficult it
is to duplicate that recognition power in a machine.

If you know what strings of characters you're looking for then the
problem is rather trivial. It's easy to string scan any file for a
particular search string of ASCII characters.

Which brings me to the question. What in the hell are are you looking
for in the swap file anyway? Passwords? No doubt they'd be
encrypted rather strongly and without knowing the encryption key that
is not a trivial problem by any means. The field of cracking encrypted
data is quite a subject in itself.

What exactly is it that you want to do? And why?


Art
http://www.epix.net/~artnpeg