The "Homework" Comments...

[Frank Bright]

Hi,
I'm running Vista HP 32-bit on my HP Pavilion Media PC. Vista is running
fine and I'm having no problems with it, other than waiting on third party
applications to come through.

I just want to say, in a respectful way if I can, to those who are pretty
much chastising people - and this oftentimes includes people who just bought
new PCs with Vista - for "not doing their homework" to go easy with this and
to PLEASE find some other way of saying this. Why?

Because general consumers, maybe even because of XP's stability, have gotten
used to buying a computer and bringing it home and doing their thing with
it. Most people who buy a PC - even with Vista - do not think in terms of
coming home with a PC and having to install drivers and updates first before
doing anything else. And I imagine (I could be wrong but....) that many
people aren't told or warned properly that not all software applications
will run yet with Vista.

Think about it - Is there a warning or message posted at the top of
Microsoft's Website on the Vista homepage about Vista and third party
applications ? Not likely. So how would a regular consumer know? It's really
up to the sales respresentative at Best Buy or Circuit City or wherever they
buy it to properly inform the customer. And I'm sure that this does not
always happen like it should.

To the credit of those who are getting on the Vista beginners' backs about
the drivers, they are absolutely right. Once one gets the right Vista
drivers going, Vista runs very smoothly. But I'm fairly computer savvy and
it took me several tries to get Vista right. I had to buy a new ATI graphics
card to replace my Nvidia and I figured that one out myself. The Best buy
rep told me it was a needless purchase and that Nvidia was fine with Vista,
but you know what? Vista runs flawlessly for me now.

So please go easy and just stress how important it is to get the drivers
right and to be aware of the limitations on 3rd party applications. People
are buying a PC to come home and have a blast with it. They aren't in
"School".

Thanks and have at me if you all want to blast me away for this comment. I'm
trying to look out for the underdogs here,

Frank

 

[Frank Bright]

I should acknowledge that many of the "Homework" comments are directed
towards those who
are upgrading their systems, and not bring home new Vista PCs. Even so, this
is still not an easy
task for many to approach properly who are not as computer savvy.

I'm fairly savy (learning still) and an Upgrader myself and it took me
several tries plus I mentioned changing my video card, against the advice of
others.

Even in this upgrading process, I think it's not always obvious to regular
consumers, just how careful you have to be with Vista at this point. It's
getting better though.

Thanks, Frank

 

[Alan]

Hi Frank,

I think you have succinctly -- and logically -- identified why there are
many new Vista users who are unhappy with it as their Operating System.

As you say, most consumers are buying a new computer because their old one
has gone to computer heaven. So they go to their local, friendly retailer
and buy a new computer. As most of the major off-the-shelf brands that
retailers are stocking have ONLY Vista PCs in stock, it's not as if
customers have much of a choice as to what O/S they are getting. Moreover,
most computer users are not especially computer savvy. They expect a new
computer to be able to be turned on...and work.

Sure, some people ARE aware that if they order a machine from Dell (I'm not
sure about the other major vendors), they now have the choice of getting XP
as their O/S. Still, I suspect that many who do go to the Dell site to order
a new PC believe that some flavor of Vista is their only option.

It might be a bad analogy, but I think of consumers who go to buy a new car.
They buy that new car having the expectation that they'll bring their old
car to the dealer, have the license plates switched to their new vehicle,
kiss their old car goodbye, sign some papers, get into their new car, turn
the key and drive away.

If they find out that they are going to have to wait for a new blend of
gasoline and new kinds of rubber to be produced for their tires before they
can use that brand new car, they are not going to have very good thoughts
about their new purchase.

Alan

 

[Guest]

Frank

Touché

regards

'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

 

[xfile]

It might be a bad analogy, but I think of consumers who go to buy a new

car. They buy that new car having the expectation that they'll bring their
old car to the dealer, have the license plates switched to their new
vehicle, kiss their old car goodbye, sign some papers, get into their new
car, turn the key and drive away.

I'd like to put the analogy into the following:

When consumers buy a new car, they don't expect to learn how to drive a car
all over again (despite all the ¡§new improvements¡¨ in safety and
comforts ), and car makers won't dare to ask so or they will be in a BIG
trouble.

In addition, Vista is more than just a personal choice related to an
individual's system, it also matters a business¡¦s continuation which is the
initial reason of why I am here. If you put all the confusions and chaos
and "new learning curve" into business operations, you'd know the troubles
and problems that it'd cause.

Maybe because this is a user-to-user newsgroup, so most discussions are
limited to "personal preferences and choices" which are valid and fully
respected. What I feel dismay is those related to the company directly
and/or indirectly tend to underestimate or play light on the problems of the
new learning curve and confusions and chaos. They have all the time to do
their homework and tweak the system because it's either their hobby and/or
their jobs, while others do have their own professions and talents in other
areas.

Fanboys can be tolerated and excused since they don't portrait themselves as
professionals although they are obviously experienced and advanced users.

What disgusts me the most are those self-perceived professionals giving
false analogies and examples of WPA (for which I could easily point out, but
again, I don't want to spend all my time here), and blaming users for not
doing homework and not adequately prepared for the OS. You can summarize
their statements of all kinds into: Anything and everything from this
company is perfect and if you don't feel the same, it's your problem.

They have accomplished at least one thing - I don't know the road ahead, but
I do know that I am leaving away this company. I'll stay with its platforms
for some time, but not using any new products, and I am definitely looking
for all possibilities from now on.

 

[Justin]

1. I agree with Frank. New PC buyers do not qualify for the homework
comment. I haven't personally seen a new PC buyer subject to that yet and
certainly would back them up.

2. I have a problem with xfile's analogy.

When you buy Vista, you do NOT need to learn the OS all over again. I've
put many people on Vista now and none of them needed direction. These are
normal joe blow users. If you want to get into the inner workings of the OS
then yes there are new locations for some things.

Vista is exactly like buying a car. When you trade in your old model for a
new model and you EXPECT to get into the "inner workings" of it then YES you
have some learning to do.

 

[Not Me]

I did all my homework, none of the hardware on the new machine I assembled
to run Vista Ultimate is a problem.
I bought the right MB and RAM to make Dual Channel DDR actually work as
designed.
My PCI-e video card is double what is required to run the eye candy.
I just don't like the hoops I have to jump through to make it come anywhere
close to something I like.
From what I have seen, a casual user doesn't have much of a chance of
setting his machine up anywhere close to the way he had his old XP system.

I sell new cars, and I have to learn all the ins & outs of every new model,
every year.
I also have to explain new features to customers during presentations & at
delivery to be sure they know how to use them properly.
A customer who doesn't understand how to make it work is NOT a happy camper,
and probably not a repeat customer.
Customers like things to feel familiar, but with some new toys... like the
new touch screen navigation systems with rearview camera.
If a carmaker followed MS thought process, it could end up as...
Lets see, we're going to put the blinker switch on the rearview mirror, the
accelerator will be where the blinker used to be, the cruise control will be
built into the radio...the brake pedal will be where the accelerator used to
be, the power window switches will be where the brake pedal used to go, and
the ignition switch will be in the trunk... no thief will be able to steal
this car... (but who would like it enough to buy it, unless it was somehow
forced upon them as their only viable choice)

I have learned almost every new OS since before MS existed.
From Basic, Cobol, Fortran, Compiler, Unix, DOS, Win3~~Vista; I have learned
many new ways of doing things.
New doesn't mean better or worse to me.
How the software looks & feels, if it is designed in a logical & cohesive
manner, are the controls/commands/menus intuitive?
That's what I look at when I decide if I like an OS or a program.
If you get in a car, no matter how pretty, and the seats don't fit, your
head brushes the roof, or you don't like the ride/handling, will you still
buy it?
Just because MS claims it is 'new & improved' does not make it so.

 

[Lang Murphy]

Hi,
I'm running Vista HP 32-bit on my HP Pavilion Media PC. Vista is running
fine and I'm having no problems with it, other than waiting on third party
applications to come through.

I just want to say, in a respectful way if I can, to those who are pretty
much chastising people - and this oftentimes includes people who just
bought new PCs with Vista - for "not doing their homework" to go easy with
this and to PLEASE find some other way of saying this. Why?

Because general consumers, maybe even because of XP's stability, have
gotten used to buying a computer and bringing it home and doing their
thing with it. Most people who buy a PC - even with Vista - do not think
in terms of coming home with a PC and having to install drivers and
updates first before doing anything else. And I imagine (I could be wrong
but....) that many people aren't told or warned properly that not all
software applications will run yet with Vista.

Think about it - Is there a warning or message posted at the top of
Microsoft's Website on the Vista homepage about Vista and third party
applications ? Not likely. So how would a regular consumer know? It's
really up to the sales respresentative at Best Buy or Circuit City or
wherever they buy it to properly inform the customer. And I'm sure that
this does not always happen like it should.

To the credit of those who are getting on the Vista beginners' backs about
the drivers, they are absolutely right. Once one gets the right Vista
drivers going, Vista runs very smoothly. But I'm fairly computer savvy and
it took me several tries to get Vista right. I had to buy a new ATI
graphics card to replace my Nvidia and I figured that one out myself. The
Best buy rep told me it was a needless purchase and that Nvidia was fine
with Vista, but you know what? Vista runs flawlessly for me now.

So please go easy and just stress how important it is to get the drivers
right and to be aware of the limitations on 3rd party applications.
People are buying a PC to come home and have a blast with it. They aren't
in "School".

Thanks and have at me if you all want to blast me away for this comment.
I'm trying to look out for the underdogs here,

Frank

Nice post, Frank.

Lemme start by saying that, and there are negative comments following, that
I've only done clean installs of Vista. No upgrades. I've never seen a BSOD
in Vista. I know others have, but I have not.

So... MS screwed the pooch on upgrades. I think. There may be some folks out
there who have had happy upgrade experiences, but, upgrades are an issue,
(again) I think.

I think it's absolutly ridiculous that folks that buy new PC's with Vista
preinstalled are experiencing BSOD's. Now... is that MS's fault? Don't know.
I would tend to think that the OEM is responsible for delivering a reliable
system. (And... reliable systems are not reliant solely on the OS... boy, we
got the crapware, we got the immature third party drivers...)

Don't think there's a happy medium for Vista, right now. As we all know, all
we see in this ng are problems. How many folks out in the world are running
Vista without issue? No clue here.

Lang

 

[Doris Day - MFB]

Vista is exactly like buying a car.

Would you buy a car like this?

http://flickr.com/photos/inknoise/495502863/

Stunning. Entertaining. Dependable.

Love and Kisses,
Doris

 

[xfile]

Don't think there's a happy medium for Vista, right now. As we all know,

all we see in this ng are problems. How many folks out in the world are
running Vista without issue? No clue here.

Hi,

Totally agreed. It's equally naïve for using this newsgroup (even plus
another 100 similar ones) to determine if Vista is doing great or not.

Among others, one major reason for scientists and medical researchers go to
hospitals and contaminated areas is to research possible "cause" and
"origin" of the disease and then to determine subsequent course of action.
I'm neither a scientist nor a medical researcher, but I do have adequate
common sense, so that's the same reason for being here. I'm not here to
judging the numbers of Vista problems as opposed to some said - see, there
are so many problems and other defended - that's ALL of it. I am here to
see the nature of the problem along with my own testing and other
researches.

But then again, what constitutes a problem?

IMHO, many commonly "seen" problems, such as compatibility, hardware
failures, etc., are less problematic and relatively easy to solve as
compared with interruption of work due to frustrations and/or spending extra
time and resources on learning, doing, and finding things that they don't
really have to. The costs of the later one are more difficult to measure,
and may not always surface in places like here, but have a bigger impact on
workflows and productivity. Those are the "problems" that most people
overlooked.

I don't know about others but I am not here to judging if Vista is doing
great or not.

Just some thoughts.

 

[Justin]

Would you buy a car like this?

http://flickr.com/photos/inknoise/495502863/

Nope, I would NOT buy from that MANUFACTURE.

 

[Lang Murphy]

Hi,

Totally agreed. It's equally naïve for using this newsgroup (even plus
another 100 similar ones) to determine if Vista is doing great or not.

Among others, one major reason for scientists and medical researchers go
to hospitals and contaminated areas is to research possible "cause" and
"origin" of the disease and then to determine subsequent course of action.
I'm neither a scientist nor a medical researcher, but I do have adequate
common sense, so that's the same reason for being here. I'm not here to
judging the numbers of Vista problems as opposed to some said - see, there
are so many problems and other defended - that's ALL of it. I am here to
see the nature of the problem along with my own testing and other
researches.

But then again, what constitutes a problem?

IMHO, many commonly "seen" problems, such as compatibility, hardware
failures, etc., are less problematic and relatively easy to solve as
compared with interruption of work due to frustrations and/or spending
extra time and resources on learning, doing, and finding things that they
don't really have to. The costs of the later one are more difficult to
measure, and may not always surface in places like here, but have a bigger
impact on workflows and productivity. Those are the "problems" that most
people overlooked.

I don't know about others but I am not here to judging if Vista is doing
great or not.

Just some thoughts.

Nice post; thanks.

Lang