target framerate?

[Sam Carleton]

I was looking at the tomshareware.com's "VGA Charts",
specifically the Halo chart:

<http://www6.tomshardware.com/graphic/20031229/vga-charts-09.html>

I see that nobody has a framerate above 60. What is
ideal framerate? It is my impression that framerate is
like refresh reate, but a software thing, not a hardware.
Can folks really see the difference between say 80 fps and
100fps? I see on some of the other games, the top cards
are giving around 200 fps, can someone really tell the
difference between 100fps and 200 fps?

Sam

 

[Asestar]

Actually, anything above say 33-40 fps is the same to human eye. Computer
graphics are bit like moving pictures and 33-40fps is very fluid.
It's not easy to explain. Take example of cartoons. When seeing indivisual
frames (drawings) they are just pictures. But when they are displayed at a
high speed (normally 15-20 per second) it becomes smooth animation.
The higher the speed, the more smoother the animation. But human eye can
only see different objects at a certain speed, anything at higher speed
seems like continous. (because retina holds the image for a short time, 10ms
i think). So whether fps is 40 or 140, it will seem smooth to the eye,
provided it don't hiccups.

 

[Dan]

Actually, anything above say 33-40 fps is the same to human eye. Computer
graphics are bit like moving pictures and 33-40fps is very fluid. It's not
easy to explain. Take example of cartoons. When seeing indivisual frames
(drawings) they are just pictures. But when they are displayed at a high
speed (normally 15-20 per second) it becomes smooth animation. The higher
the speed, the more smoother the animation. But human eye can only see
different objects at a certain speed, anything at higher speed seems like
continous. (because retina holds the image for a short time, 10ms i think).
So whether fps is 40 or 140, it will seem smooth to the eye, provided it
don't hiccups.

I agree but you will need a higher frame rate than 30 because that is only
the average frame rate. What is important is the minimum frame rate stays
above 30 so the game doesn't appear to jump. Very important in fast pace
first person shooters such as quake3. halo, unreal...etc.

 

[Sham B]

high frame rates are simply an indication of raw processing power, and
places like Toms hardware state them to show product comparison. In normal
operation, you want this extra capacity to be spent on better effects
(directX9 per pixel water effects instead of a directX 7 'flat water plane'
for example) and FSAA. there are many people that get this wrong though,
and routinely play at 150fps and think they are getting the ultimate gaming
experience, but hey, at least they're pleased, and ATI are wheeling that
wheelbarrow of money all the way to the bank

I would say 40fps minimum is the ideal. this is the frame rate that the
card should not go below, but you have to allow it to go higher than this to
ensure no jumps or pauses when theres a lot going on. 70-80fps average
should do this, although when you are hitting 80fps, you will not be
registering the extra frames. IF you set up your game quality settings so
that you are getting an average of 70fps, you should be okay, although you
can go lower than this if you are prepared to put up with a few slowdowns.

S

 

[Mike B]

I agree, 40 fps should be a minimum to go by. Also, there is a big
difference between 40 fps and 80 fps when playing first person shooters and
such, because you are moving very fast in many cases. Some people can notice
a difference between 60 and 80 fps, but most don't. After 80 fps or so, it
all looks the same... So, if you have an extremely high end system doing 140
fps, and a not so high end system beside it doing 80 or 90 fps, you aren't
even going to be able to tell which one is the higher end system... So it is
sometimes in vain that people put so much into these systems. These people
are really just being taken advantage of in my opinion.

Don't buy a card because it can do 100 or 200 fps.. there's no real benefit
in running them at that speed as apposed to 70 or 80. Although it does give
you piece of mind in that in the future, when more demanding games bring
your cards ability down to 80 fps, the other guys are having to deal with 30
or 40. You would be investing into the cards future use and longevity.

For most first person shooters, i believe 60+ is ideal. 30 fps in a first
person shooter can get you killed.. For some strategy games, or overhead
perspective games, 30 or 40 may be just fine. It all depends on the game.

 

[RipFlex]

I agree, 30-40 fps be the minimum framerate, or you will notice choppiness
in heavy FPS combat situations.

BTW the eye registers movement more than 30 fps... average joe shmoe
registers over 70 fps/Hz (72/75 Hz recommended) if we are taking real life
movement before the eye/brain starts dropping it's own detail level sorta
speak. TV displays 30 fps and show the same frame twice to CHEAT 60 fps or
60 Hz refresh.

Why you think you get eye strain on 60 hz... Me I have primative eye sight,
making me motion sentitive. 60Hz makes my eyes bleed, hence I only
periodically watch TV - blurry, slow motions or faked fast motion tricks do
not fool my eyes.

I lock my monitor 85Hz in all resolutions up to 1280x1024 or again bleeding
eyes...

I keep FPS and average of 70-80 fps, when heavy combat 20-30 fps it drives
me nuts, like Max Pain Bullet time to me.

 

[Asestar]

speak. TV displays 30 fps and show the same frame twice to CHEAT 60 fps
or

60 Hz refresh.

Some new tv's (like my sony) are 100Hz tv's . Much better and stable
picture, also good for using tv-out from pc.
Refresh rate and fps is different. LCD operate at much lower speed but
continous mode, so no flicker. But CRT have to update the picture, or it
will burn permanently on the screen.

periodically watch TV - blurry, slow motions or faked fast motion tricks do
not fool my eyes.

You must be from Krypton or something ... hehe

 

[andrewunix]

Tue, 24 Feb 2004 09:19:25 -0500, (e-mail address removed) suggested:
: I agree, 30-40 fps be the minimum framerate, or you will notice choppiness
: in heavy FPS combat situations.
:
: BTW the eye registers movement more than 30 fps... average joe shmoe
: registers over 70 fps/Hz (72/75 Hz recommended) if we are taking real life
: movement before the eye/brain starts dropping it's own detail level sorta
: speak. TV displays 30 fps and show the same frame twice to CHEAT 60 fps or
: 60 Hz refresh.

Not exactly. The 60 Hz image on a TV is interlaced, so it's not showing
the same frame twice. The 60 fields per second *do* have motion difference
between them, but they only have half of the information each.

A lot of film is 24 fps, and I've never had a problem with it. Progressive
video, interlaced video, and film are very different from each other; your
threshold for motion in each will be different.

Keep in mind that progressive-scan TV shows 29.97 true frames per second,
and again, most people would say that it looks better than
60-field-per-second interlaced NTSC.