System Restore causes loss of data files.

[Guest]

Ok now, only the C partition is being monitored by SR, the D particle is not
monitored. I tested out the Files and Settings Transfer Wizard tool. I
took a backup of settings and files of the C partition and wrote it to the D
partition, it works in my case. Thanks for that tip.

 

[Rock]

Hi to aka Jerry, Detlev Dreyer and Gordon,

The D partition in my case is some sort of backup partition already of
several GByte. So backing up again that D partiction is a bit too much.
The
D partition has all user date and backups, installers from CD. The C
partition only has WinXP system and applications.

<snip>

Backing up to a partition on an internal drive has little value, unless
there is redundancy in the backups to external media. All data should be
backed up to external media such as an external drive, a networked, drive,
or CD/DVD.

It is commonly recommended to turn off system restore on non system drives.

 

[Guest]

it's because system restore is monitoring the other drives.... thru
default measures, it notices the changes and fixes them...

Solution is to turn off monitoring of those and any pure data storage
partitions... Those specific partions/drives should be external and
backed up to other media...

System Restore isn't bugged... it's just more powerful than people
think... and many don't...

A pity that this SR power doesn't come at the user's fingertips through a
userfriendly interface.
cheers

 

[Detlev Dreyer]

I was recovering from an serious illness, and while I'm quite a bit
better, there's still a ways to go. Maybe next year?

Hopefully, Gary. All the Best!

 

[HEMI-Powered]

Today, Detlev Dreyer made these interesting comments ...

This has nothing to do with "command line switches". In
addition, there is no need for the OP to apply that registry
tweak since *you* were complaining about system restore points
on external drives. Apparently, you're not really interested
in a permanent solution of your problem. EOD.

I complained about nothing whatsoever. I simply turn off monitoring
of all but my primary partition as there is nothing to be gained by
having a system restore on a data partition already being more
effectively backed up in other ways and everything to lose, as the
OP here painfully found out. as to command line switches, I don't
know the correct terminology but the string of characters posted
here had all the earmarks of some sort of script, and nothing at
all to do with the standard workings of native Windows XP System
Restore. And, until I read the post earlier today, I'd never heard
of the web site mentioned, so it can't be all that obvious. As to
not being interested in a permanent solution to my problem, since I
have no problem, I guess you're right, I am not interested in your
"solution".

 

[HEMI-Powered]

Today, Detlev Dreyer made these interesting comments ...

"System Restore Scripting Samples"
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/productdoc/scriptsampl
es.mspx

"TechNet Script Center Sample Scripts"
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=b4cb26
78-dafb-4e30-b2da-b8814fe2da5a&DisplayLang=en

I stand behind my previous question: how would the OP or anyone
know these two things exist? It may come as a surprise to some
people but there is more to life than MS Windows and far more
interesting ways to spend one's time than perusing the MS KB. But,
before the flames start shooting my way, remember that it wasn't me
complaining that System Restore had a bug in it that caused me
damage. Quite the contrary, I have used in infrequently very
successfully and have no complaints whatsoever about that part of
Windows, and no problems at all with my extended partitions on
either my internal HD or my 3 externals.

 

[HEMI-Powered]

Today, =?Utf-8?B?am9oYW4=?= made these interesting comments ...

Ok now, only the C partition is being monitored by SR, the D
particle is not monitored. I tested out the Files and
Settings Transfer Wizard tool. I took a backup of settings
and files of the C partition and wrote it to the D partition,
it works in my case. Thanks for that tip.

Now you're cooking with gas! Again, I hope you fully recover from
the remaining issues you had and wish you the best of luck in
maintining a secure and safe computing environment.

 

[HEMI-Powered]

Today, Rock made these interesting comments ...

<snip>

Backing up to a partition on an internal drive has little
value, unless there is redundancy in the backups to external
media. All data should be backed up to external media such as
an external drive, a networked, drive, or CD/DVD.

I would agree with this especially since if your internal dies,
it may well take the extended partition(s) with it along with the
primary. I mirror what I want to safeguard in exactly the way you
recommend.

It is commonly recommended to turn off system restore on non
system drives.

I highly concur with your last. Now, please tell us why the
default is to monitor non-system drives and not leave it to the
user to turn it on if they really think it is necessary? I know
this is true because when I mount one of my stored externals,
within a few minutes, Windows System Restore has turn RPs on for
the partitions it finds. I don't call that a bug, but I would say
it is not terribly user friendly and, apparently, not all that
obvious to people.

 

[Detlev Dreyer]

I stand behind my previous question: how would the OP or anyone
know these two things exist?

Now the OP knows. EOT.

 

[Rock]

I highly concur with your last. Now, please tell us why the
default is to monitor non-system drives and not leave it to the
user to turn it on if they really think it is necessary? I know
this is true because when I mount one of my stored externals,
within a few minutes, Windows System Restore has turn RPs on for
the partitions it finds. I don't call that a bug, but I would say
it is not terribly user friendly and, apparently, not all that
obvious to people.

I don't know the reason. I can only surmise it was to err on the side of
safety since programs can be installed to any partition or drive. If the
default is off then folks would complain that SR wasn't available. I think
it would have been wise to disable it by default for external drives but
leave it on for all internal drives/partitions.

 

[Terry]

On 5/17/2007 2:44 PM On a whim, Rock pounded out on the keyboard

I don't know the reason. I can only surmise it was to err on the side of
safety since programs can be installed to any partition or drive. If the
default is off then folks would complain that SR wasn't available. I think
it would have been wise to disable it by default for external drives but
leave it on for all internal drives/partitions.

Does anyone know when SR began tracking data also? I remember years
back there being a lot of discussion on how SR does NOT touch data, only
the system and programs. Sure if one has multiple drives (as I do) you
can disable the data drive independently, but most systems have only one
drive and you can't be that selective.

This is info from technet:

Q. Does System Restore protect personal data files?
A. System Restore does not monitor changes to or recover personal data
files such as Word documents, graphics, e-mail, etc.

Q. What files are monitored by System Restore?
A. System Restore monitors only a core set of specified system and
application file types (e.g. .exe, .dll etc), archiving the states of
these files before system changes are made. System Restore does not
monitor any user/personal data files. To view the included files
specified in System Restore, see Monitored File Extensions in the System
Restore section of the Platform SDK. Modifications to this list from
sources other than Microsoft are not supported.

--
Terry

***Reply Note***
Anti-spam measures are included in my email address.
Delete NOSPAM from the email address after clicking Reply.

 

[Rock]

On 5/17/2007 2:44 PM On a whim, Rock pounded out on the keyboard


Does anyone know when SR began tracking data also? I remember years back
there being a lot of discussion on how SR does NOT touch data, only the
system and programs. Sure if one has multiple drives (as I do) you can
disable the data drive independently, but most systems have only one drive
and you can't be that selective.

This is info from technet:

Q. Does System Restore protect personal data files?
A. System Restore does not monitor changes to or recover personal data
files such as Word documents, graphics, e-mail, etc.

Q. What files are monitored by System Restore?
A. System Restore monitors only a core set of specified system and
application file types (e.g. .exe, .dll etc), archiving the states of
these files before system changes are made. System Restore does not
monitor any user/personal data files. To view the included files specified
in System Restore, see Monitored File Extensions in the System Restore
section of the Platform SDK. Modifications to this list from sources other
than Microsoft are not supported.

I don't understand what happened on the OPs system. It is my understanding
that SR does not track user data, so I was very surprised to see effect he
posted about. Maybe Bert Kinney will see this thread and jump in.

 

[Uncle Grumpy]

I did not know that System Restore could be so dangerous

It can't be and it isn't.

 

[Gary S. Terhune]

Come now... *Most* users don't know but a tiny fraction of what goes on in
their PCs and what can be done with it. Most users don't even need to know
the minutiae. Frankly, it would get in their way.

Most of such information is found by looking into the issue in Help,
Resource Kits, Googling, the KB, and last, but not least, in these groups.
You sound like you want context Help (aka "balloon tips") to be encyclopedic
in nature.

Seek and ye shall find. This applies to knowledge more than anything else.
When someone wants to learn, the info is out there to be absorbed.

 

[Bert Kinney]

Hi,

I did an undo of the system restore and the files came back on the D
partition. However, I went back to the 16 May restore point because of the
desktop icon problem. Hence, some of the files (only those put on the D part
after 16 May, which are only a few files) are missing.

What type of files are being affected by System Restore on the D: Partition?

I did not know that System Restore could be so dangerous and that only the C
partition is to monitored. WinXP does not warn for those kind a problems if
you monitor also other drives than the C partition. I looked it up in
HelpAndSupportCenter -> PickATask -> Undo changes to your computer with
System Restore but there was no info about data files being lost if you
monitors other partitions than the C partition

System Restore does not monitor data type files on any monitored partitions.
Here's a list of files and folders System Restore monitors:
http://bertk.mvps.org/html/filesfolders.html

Anyhow System Restore is about the system and not about user's data files,
so any System Restore should NOT remove data files. This problem is to be
considered as a very serious bug in WinXP.
Those kind a problems belong to an era of the mid 1990s were catalog tree's
needed to be fixed from time to time. I am bit surprised that a system (anno
2007) still suffers from problems that should have been solved 10 years ago.

QUESTIONS:
1) Can I undo System Restore ONLY for the D partition (and not for the C partition)?

No. As suggested, just stop monitoring the D partition.

2) Can set the System Restore so that it creates a system restore point at
particular times of the day, or when closing the computer??

Yes.

VB Script to run unattended Restore Point Creation as a Scheduled Task.
http://www.dougknox.com/xp/scripts_desc/xp_sysrestorepoint.htm

Single Click Creation of a System Restore Point/Runs as a Scheduled Task
http://www.dougknox.com/xp/utils/xp_sysrestorepoint.htm

Regards,
Bert Kinney MS-MVP Shell/User
http://bertk.mvps.org
Member: http://dts-l.org

 

[Bert Kinney]

On 5/17/2007 2:44 PM On a whim, Rock pounded out on the keyboard


Does anyone know when SR began tracking data also?

It never has. No one has mentioned what file are being effected and how they
were being stored on the partition.

The list of monitored file type's are located in the following hidden file.
%systemroot%\system32\restore\filelist.xml

I remember years
back there being a lot of discussion on how SR does NOT touch data, only
the system and programs. Sure if one has multiple drives (as I do) you
can disable the data drive independently, but most systems have only one
drive and you can't be that selective.

This is info from technet:

Q. Does System Restore protect personal data files?
A. System Restore does not monitor changes to or recover personal
data files such as Word documents, graphics, e-mail, etc.

Q. What files are monitored by System Restore?
A. System Restore monitors only a core set of specified system and
application file types (e.g. .exe, .dll etc), archiving the states of
these files before system changes are made. System Restore does not
monitor any user/personal data files. To view the included files
specified in System Restore, see Monitored File Extensions in the System
Restore section of the Platform SDK. Modifications to this list from
sources other than Microsoft are not supported.

Regards,
Bert Kinney MS-MVP Shell/User
http://bertk.mvps.org
Member: http://dts-l.org

 

[Terry]

On 5/17/2007 2:44 PM On a whim, Rock pounded out on the keyboard

Does anyone know when SR began tracking data also?

It never has. No one has mentioned what file are being effected and how they
were being stored on the partition.

The list of monitored file type's are located in the following hidden file.
%systemroot%\system32\restore\filelist.xml

I remember years
back there being a lot of discussion on how SR does NOT touch data, only
the system and programs. Sure if one has multiple drives (as I do) you
can disable the data drive independently, but most systems have only one
drive and you can't be that selective.

This is info from technet:

Q. Does System Restore protect personal data files?
A. System Restore does not monitor changes to or recover personal
data files such as Word documents, graphics, e-mail, etc.

Q. What files are monitored by System Restore?
A. System Restore monitors only a core set of specified system and
application file types (e.g. .exe, .dll etc), archiving the states of
these files before system changes are made. System Restore does not
monitor any user/personal data files. To view the included files
specified in System Restore, see Monitored File Extensions in the System
Restore section of the Platform SDK. Modifications to this list from
sources other than Microsoft are not supported.

Regards,
Bert Kinney MS-MVP Shell/User
http://bertk.mvps.org
Member: http://dts-l.org[/QUOTE]

Bert,

Obviously my responses below my questions addressed the issue. Then why
did the OP have his data wiped out?

--
Terry

***Reply Note***
Anti-spam measures are included in my email address.
Delete NOSPAM from the email address after clicking Reply.

 

[HEMI-Powered]

Today, Uncle Grumpy made a number of profound pronouncements

It can't be and it isn't.

All powerful tools, whether they be for PCs or for real, e.g., a
powersaw, can be both highly useful when used properly and highly
dangerous when not. At least for the OP in this case, the total
number of presumed lost data files from his D:\ partition seems to
be low. So, the OP or anyone who isn't familiar with System Restore
- and I do not fully understand it myself! - might well conclude
that it is "dangerous" if it causes side-effect problems whilst
fixing what was intended to be undone.

 

[Bert Kinney]

It never has. No one has mentioned what file are being effected and
how they were being stored on the partition.

The list of monitored file type's are located in the following hidden
file.
%systemroot%\system32\restore\filelist.xml



Regards,
Bert Kinney MS-MVP Shell/User
http://bertk.mvps.org
Member: http://dts-l.org

Bert,

Obviously my responses below my questions addressed the issue. Then why
did the OP have his data wiped out?[/QUOTE]

I can better answer this question once the OP answers my questions. Under
normal circumstances this will not happen. Most of the time this is caused
by the use of some sort of recovery utility other than System Restore or the
data file are monitored file types.

Regards,
Bert Kinney MS-MVP Shell/User
http://bertk.mvps.org
Member: http://dts-l.org

 

[Guest]

Hi Bert,

Listen to this story. The HD of my computer has two partitions, C and D.
Beginning this week I reinstalled XP SP2 plus all my applications, all that
on the C-partition [what a hassle, what a hassle]. The user data and
installer files from applications are located on the D partition - there is
no system nor any system files on the D partition.
I installed Adobe Reader 7.0.7 on the C-partition from its installer on the
D partition. After that I updated AR to AR 7.0.9 using the updater in the
installed AR 7.0.7, all that happened on 16 May. That was the LAST
installation I did, and SR made a restore point just prior to installing AR
7.0.7.
Right after that, I downloaded other installer files which I found on the
net, namely the big installer for AR 7.0.9 (20MB file), which I found after I
updated to AR 7.0.9, also the installer AR 6.0, and some other files.
Apparently those downloaded files where not known/recorded in the last
Restore Point (RP).
On 17 May I reverted back to the RP of 16 May. After that I noticed
immediately that the installer files of AR 7.0.9 and AR 6.0. on the D
partition were unsaved. More specifically those files are called
AdbeRdr709_en_US.exe and AdbeRdr60_enu_full.exe. Undoing the SR made the
installer files come back.

Conclusion: It looks like SR considers those installer are system files and
not as data files. If that is really the case, then there is something fuzzy
with SR. What is the definition of *user files* and *system files*??

Please reply
thanks