Suddenly slow ...

B

betsy

My computer broke and I had to use my husband's laptop for a week. I had
to swear not to install anything! I mainly used webmail and did some
internet surfing but no tricks. Ok, I installed thunderbird but only
used it a few times :) My 5-year-old PC has win-ME and was hosed. :-(

He has a Toshiba satellite laptop maybe 18 months old and it has XP, 256
megs ram, 40 gig hd. What else do you need to know?

I used it for about 30 seconds this evening to check my webmail and it
was fine. When he went in a while later, it was really really slow.
Sorry I didn't write down any of the messages but you could read all the
startup messages and it took about 10 minutes just to get to the
desktop. It did some kind of disk check but not with scan disk or
anything I've ever seen - it was just typing in courier on a blue
screen, and said, checking (something), it fixed 2 sectors, then it
checked it again. Then it rebooted. I used System Restore and selected a
date of last Friday but it's still slow. That didn't help. Any ideas? I
swear I didn't do anything bad but he doesn't believe me!

Thanks, Betsy
 
G

Guest

Usually this can be attributed to either a failing hard drive or a failing
file system. It wouldnt really matter who was using the computer. When they
go they go. Perhaps boot the machine into recovery console and run a full
checkdisk.

chkdsk /r
 
K

Keith Manning

betsy said:
My computer broke and I had to use my husband's laptop for a week. I had
to swear not to install anything! I mainly used webmail and did some
internet surfing but no tricks. Ok, I installed thunderbird but only used
it a few times :) My 5-year-old PC has win-ME and was hosed. :-(

He has a Toshiba satellite laptop maybe 18 months old and it has XP, 256
megs ram, 40 gig hd. What else do you need to know?

I used it for about 30 seconds this evening to check my webmail and it was
fine. When he went in a while later, it was really really slow. Sorry I
didn't write down any of the messages but you could read all the startup
messages and it took about 10 minutes just to get to the desktop. It did
some kind of disk check but not with scan disk or anything I've ever
seen - it was just typing in courier on a blue screen, and said, checking
(something), it fixed 2 sectors, then it checked it again. Then it
rebooted. I used System Restore and selected a date of last Friday but
it's still slow. That didn't help. Any ideas? I swear I didn't do anything
bad but he doesn't believe me!

Thanks, Betsy

I'm not an expert, but I've had something like that happen to my PC whereby
it reboots itself and runs very slow.

I played around with it for a while and gave up and re-installed Windows
assuming it's was a virus. It must have been, because once I re-installed,
the machine ran fine. Remember anti-virus programs only keep about 90% of
viruses out. They're not really very reliable. And remember the virus
problem is only going to get worse.

It's always a good idea to never keep data on your PC and have the minimum
programs on a Windows PC. This makes it a lot easier to get your PC up and
running again after a virus infection.

Store your emails on gMail and data on the internet. Web based programs are
getting popular, try to use them and so keep Windows clean of any clutter.

Good Luck!

Keith
 
J

Joe Wright

betsy said:
My computer broke and I had to use my husband's laptop for a week. I had
to swear not to install anything! I mainly used webmail and did some
internet surfing but no tricks. Ok, I installed thunderbird but only
used it a few times :) My 5-year-old PC has win-ME and was hosed. :-(

He has a Toshiba satellite laptop maybe 18 months old and it has XP, 256
megs ram, 40 gig hd. What else do you need to know?

I used it for about 30 seconds this evening to check my webmail and it
was fine. When he went in a while later, it was really really slow.
Sorry I didn't write down any of the messages but you could read all the
startup messages and it took about 10 minutes just to get to the
desktop. It did some kind of disk check but not with scan disk or
anything I've ever seen - it was just typing in courier on a blue
screen, and said, checking (something), it fixed 2 sectors, then it
checked it again. Then it rebooted. I used System Restore and selected a
date of last Friday but it's still slow. That didn't help. Any ideas? I
swear I didn't do anything bad but he doesn't believe me!

Thanks, Betsy

How much of the 40 GB is free? It's possible that the install of
Thunderbird was just enough to cause fragmenting of the swap file, or
severely limit the swap file size.
 
R

Rock

My computer broke and I had to use my husband's laptop for a week. I had
to swear not to install anything! I mainly used webmail and did some
internet surfing but no tricks. Ok, I installed thunderbird but only used
it a few times :) My 5-year-old PC has win-ME and was hosed. :-(

He has a Toshiba satellite laptop maybe 18 months old and it has XP, 256
megs ram, 40 gig hd. What else do you need to know?

I used it for about 30 seconds this evening to check my webmail and it was
fine. When he went in a while later, it was really really slow. Sorry I
didn't write down any of the messages but you could read all the startup
messages and it took about 10 minutes just to get to the desktop. It did
some kind of disk check but not with scan disk or anything I've ever
seen - it was just typing in courier on a blue screen, and said, checking
(something), it fixed 2 sectors, then it checked it again. Then it
rebooted. I used System Restore and selected a date of last Friday but
it's still slow. That didn't help. Any ideas? I swear I didn't do anything
bad but he doesn't believe me!


Invoke the "10 times rule". If a program has been newly installed but used
less than 10 times, then consider it the same as not having been
stalled. -)

Seriously, though, you should check out what caused chkdsk to run. XP
doesn't have scandisk. It was replaced with chkdsk.

Make sure all data is backed up. Always have a full and complete backup.
Download a drive diagnostic utility from the drive manufacturer's web site.
That will create a bootable floppy or CD. Boot from that and run the
diagnostics. If there are problems get a new drive.
 
P

Pop`

Keith said:
I'm not an expert, but I've had something like that happen to my PC
whereby it reboots itself and runs very slow.

I played around with it for a while and gave up and re-installed
Windows assuming it's was a virus. It must have been, because once I
re-installed, the machine ran fine. Remember anti-virus programs only
keep about 90% of viruses out. They're not really very reliable. And
remember the virus problem is only going to get worse.

It's always a good idea to never keep data on your PC and have the
minimum programs on a Windows PC. This makes it a lot easier to get
your PC up and running again after a virus infection.

Store your emails on gMail and data on the internet. Web based
programs are getting popular, try to use them and so keep Windows
clean of any clutter.
Good Luck!

Keith

What the hell planet are you from? When you don't have something useful to
say, that's exactly what you should say!

You're either still a raw newbie or an idiot; take your pick.
 
K

Keith Manning

Pop` said:
You're either still a raw newbie or an idiot; take your pick.
I was only trying to help. Anyhow, who are you to criticise me.

I believe that the advice I gave her will save her from loosing her emails
and data when her hard disk finally crashes. Always keep your data separate
from your operating system - on a separate disk.

Windows and the virus problems associated with the Windows operating system
make it far to a dangerous place to store important data. I was hoping that
with the new Vista OS the virus problem may be solved but, not so. My guess
it will only get worse. And if you do some reading you'll find the problem
is heading for the extreme.

What is wrong with using online email systems and programs like Writely,
gMail, and Google Spreadsheets. By using these programs your data is also
stored on the net and is a lot safer than just being stored on a laptop.

Anyway who are you calling someone and idiot. You sound like you live in the
dark ages. I suppose with a name like pop, what else could one expect.

The world of computers and internet is changing very quickly. Wake up and do
some reading before you start to criticise others for helping.

Keith Manning
 
R

Rock

I believe that the advice I gave her will save her from loosing her emails
and data when her hard disk finally crashes. Always keep your data
separate from your operating system - on a separate disk.

One should always have a full and complete backup on external media.
Keeping data on a separate partition makes sense for backup purposes, but
there is no particular need to put it on a different drive. I don't see
your reasoning for making the statement to always keep it seperate on a
separate disk. If it's to prevent malware infection that certainly won't do
it.
Windows and the virus problems associated with the Windows operating
system make it far to a dangerous place to store important data. I was
hoping that with the new Vista OS the virus problem may be solved but, not
so. My guess it will only get worse. And if you do some reading you'll
find the problem is heading for the extreme.

A defense in depth approach and employing safe hex can reduce the threat of
malware greatly. If you have experienced problems with malware, then you
should look to the operator and how the system is configured, and not blame
it on the OS.

Where do you come to the conclusion that Vista is going to be worse? Again
you make a statement that doesn't have much credibility or support to it.
What is wrong with using online email systems and programs like Writely,
gMail, and Google Spreadsheets. By using these programs your data is also
stored on the net and is a lot safer than just being stored on a laptop.

I ceratinly wouldn't want to trust my personal data to sit on someone's
server in some remote location where I have no idea who is accessing it.
Better to have redundancy in external media backups with one backup stored
off site but under your control.
 
K

Keith Manning

"Rock" wrote >
One should always have a full and complete backup on external media.
Keeping data on a separate partition makes sense for backup purposes, but
there is no particular need to put it on a different drive. I don't see
your reasoning for making the statement to always keep it seperate on a
separate disk. If it's to prevent malware infection that certainly won't
do it.

1. A separate disk is transportable.
2. Your desktop or laptop (or both) may be in for repairs but you still have
your data. No need for the PC repair shop to do a backup.
3. You buy a new computer. No need to tranfer everything over - you just
plug in your data drive.
4. Windows gets corrupted or just gets clogged up like it tends to do every
few years. No problems just reformat the drive and load it again. No worries
that you missed a file during back up and it has now been written over
during the format.
A defense in depth approach and employing safe hex can reduce the threat
of malware greatly. If you have experienced problems with malware, then
you should look to the operator and how the system is configured, and not
blame it on the OS.

Most operators (home users) don't have a clue what goes on behind the screen
and how to configure a system, let alone install and update an anti-virus
system. Most just want to do simple things like check their email, surf the
net, use a word processor and upload their pics from their digital camera.
They want to use their PC like they do their televison. They don't want to
(or can't) lift the hood and work on the motor.

The new Vista still doesn't have a built in anti - virus system. Kind of
like buying a car without the front wheels. No problem, there's a guy down
the road who'll sell you the front wheels.

Where do you come to the conclusion that Vista is going to be worse?
Again you make a statement that doesn't have much credibility or support
to it.

What I tried to say is that virus attacks going to become worse. Viruses
will become more malicious. I imagine that virus writers must be jumping
for joy in hearing that Microsoft are bring out yet another operating system
that allows them (the virus writers) to easily write new viruses for.
I ceratinly wouldn't want to trust my personal data to sit on someone's
server in some remote location where I have no idea who is accessing it.
Better to have redundancy in external media backups with one backup stored
off site but under your control.

When you store personal data on a remote server you store it using a
username and password. The same as your bank stores your account data. All
my most important information (clients and company documents) is stored in
databases on remote servers. Data is continually added by myself, my
clients and employees - where else can I store this important data? On a cd
under my bed?

Keith Manning

Rock [ MVP User/Shell]
 
R

Rock

"Rock" wrote >


1. A separate disk is transportable.

A backup is transportable. Laptops don't have two disks. Is your
suggestion to then store all data on a removable drive such as USB? Image
the whole system onto usb. A neophyte is going to take the drive out
themself for internal drives?
2. Your desktop or laptop (or both) may be in for repairs but you still
have your data. No need for the PC repair shop to do a backup.

Take out the drive before sending it in for repair. Never send in your own
drive for a hardware repair. If you must send the drive in for some sort of
software related problem, then yes a separate drive for data has some
advantages. But that can be accomplished just as well by keeping data on a
separate partition of the same drive. Image the partition, then remove it.
A laptop doesn't have two drives. A reputable shop will backup the data
anyway, but you'd be wiser to delete the user data and restore from a backup
later.
3. You buy a new computer. No need to tranfer everything over - you just
plug in your data drive.

Yes there are some advantages to this. An image/clone of a data partition
accomplishes the same thing.
4. Windows gets corrupted or just gets clogged up like it tends to do
every few years. No problems just reformat the drive and load it again. No
worries that you missed a file during back up and it has now been written
over during the format.

I disagree with your contention here. A properly maintained system does not
need to get "clogged up" and doesn't need to be reformated / OS reinstalled
every few years. The one I'm typing this on has been running for 4+ years,
and currently has two installations of Vista, along with XP. Runs just as
well as it did before. The reformat / reinstall mantra is a legacy from
the win9x days and driven hard by current tech support to reduce support
costs.

For the home user a drive imaging/cloning program with an external drive,
and restore from there if something smashes the system. A properly thought
out and executed backup solution will ensure you don't miss a file during
backup. These can easily be set up to run as a scheduled task.
Most operators (home users) don't have a clue what goes on behind the
screen and how to configure a system, let alone install and update an
anti-virus system. Most just want to do simple things like check their
email, surf the net, use a word processor and upload their pics from their
digital camera. They want to use their PC like they do their televison.
They don't want to (or can't) lift the hood and work on the motor.

The new Vista still doesn't have a built in anti - virus system. Kind of
like buying a car without the front wheels. No problem, there's a guy down
the road who'll sell you the front wheels.

There are at least two free AV programs that run well on Vista right now,
AVG and Avast. They work well on XP too. UAC in Vista helps significantly
to cut down on the attack surfaces. The firewall is highly configurable.
Out of the box install is much more secure that XP, and has received high
marks from many in the security arena. How does this make Vista worse than
XP?

MS would face major anti-trust litigation if they included an anti-virus
program built in. Windows Live One Care, for the neophyte user, is a good
solution. It was being Beta tested in XP and available for XP; there will
be a version compatible with Vista around RTM. These kinds of automated
programs help the new person who isn't technically oriented.

Storing your data at a remote location doesn't help you with the malware
issue. Malware infests the system, the data with malware is saved, on a
remote system, the computer is wiped and OS reinstalled, then infested data
is restored. The points is if the user doesn't practice security in depth
and safe hex, they'll have continual problems. And there is the cost of the
service.
What I tried to say is that virus attacks going to become worse. Viruses
will become more malicious. I imagine that virus writers must be jumping
for joy in hearing that Microsoft are bring out yet another operating
system that allows them (the virus writers) to easily write new viruses
for.

They certainly are getting craftier. The battle will always be on, but UAC
is a good step forward. But how is it that MS bringing out a new OS allows
them to "easily write new viruses" for it? Yes MS OSs are the big target.
And a new OS presents a nice challenge. You can never stop that cycle.
When you store personal data on a remote server you store it using a
username and password. The same as your bank stores your account data. All
my most important information (clients and company documents) is stored in
databases on remote servers. Data is continually added by myself, my
clients and employees - where else can I store this important data? On a
cd under my bed?

I wouldn't trust my data to that kind of system. Banks with all the outside
monitoring and regulations still can have problems. But these data storage
services don't have any outside monitoring. And certainly for the casual
user who knows nothing, there are way too many ways they can be taken. You
give all that data to some unknown person to be stored in some unknown
location? If they have physical control of the media, a user name and
password doesn't mean didley.
 
K

Keith Manning

"Rock" wrote >
A backup is transportable. Laptops don't have two disks. Is your
suggestion to then store all data on a removable drive such as USB? Image
the whole system onto usb. A neophyte is going to take the drive out
themself for internal drives?


Take out the drive before sending it in for repair. Never send in your
own drive for a hardware repair. If you must send the drive in for some
sort of software related problem, then yes a separate drive for data has
some advantages. But that can be accomplished just as well by keeping
data on a separate partition of the same drive. Image the partition, then
remove it. A laptop doesn't have two drives. A reputable shop will backup
the data anyway, but you'd be wiser to delete the user data and restore
from a backup later.


Yes there are some advantages to this. An image/clone of a data partition
accomplishes the same thing.


I disagree with your contention here. A properly maintained system does
not need to get "clogged up" and doesn't need to be reformated / OS
reinstalled every few years. The one I'm typing this on has been running
for 4+ years, and currently has two installations of Vista, along with XP.
Runs just as well as it did before. The reformat / reinstall mantra is a
legacy from the win9x days and driven hard by current tech support to
reduce support costs.

For the home user a drive imaging/cloning program with an external drive,
and restore from there if something smashes the system. A properly
thought out and executed backup solution will ensure you don't miss a file
during backup. These can easily be set up to run as a scheduled task.


There are at least two free AV programs that run well on Vista right now,
AVG and Avast. They work well on XP too. UAC in Vista helps
significantly to cut down on the attack surfaces. The firewall is highly
configurable. Out of the box install is much more secure that XP, and has
received high marks from many in the security arena. How does this make
Vista worse than XP?
MS would face major anti-trust litigation if they included an anti-virus
program built in. Windows Live One Care, for the neophyte user, is a good
solution. It was being Beta tested in XP and available for XP; there
will be a version compatible with Vista around RTM. These kinds of
automated programs help the new person who isn't technically oriented.
Yes, I'm using both AVG and Avast (on separate machines)

But few other non-tech users don't know these exist. I'd love to see MS
build a totally secure and robust operating system without all the messy
security updates. Now the new Live One Care system sounds just as bad, it's
again something you need to subscribe to. Get out the credit card and
subscribe, then if something goes wrong with the subscription, call MS. Or
if your cc bounces or there is a problem call or email MS. All the time your
system is open to a virus infection. Messy stuff for non-tech type people.
Here's a couple of examples of how I solved these problems with computers
owned by a friend and my parents. None of them know what an operating system
is.

I have a friend who, about 5 years ago bought a second hand computer with
Win98. All he wanted it for was to look at porn sites and check his email -
nothing else.

I visited him a few months after he bought it and it had slowed right down
to where he couldn't use it.

His NAV subscription had run out. I reformated his disk and loaded Win98 and
NAV, he resubscribed to NAV. All went well untill I visited him again about
a year later. The same old problem - computer runs so slow I can't use it.
NAV had expired, the machine was full of pop-ups and viruses.

This time I loaded a copy of Linux onto his machine. I didn't tell him about
Linux, I just told him I'd made a few changes. The computer ran fine for
three years untill the mother board finally packed it in. It took him about
a year to realise I'd installed Linux!

A few months ago he bought a brand new PC for him and his family. He had
Linux installed as a second operating system. His kids use XP for their
games while he still surfs the porn sites and checks his email with Linux.

Basically the same happened with my parents. They continually had virus
problems. I loaded Linux for them and they've never looked back. It's hard
to explain what a computer virus is to my mother. She thinks that the
internet is an extention of the television. She's 78 and likes to check out
urls she gets out of magazines and off the TV.

I'm not a MS basher. I just wish they build a robust and secure operating
system.

I've heard that the new Vista has fantastic graphics. I think most people
would much prefer something which comes out of the box safe and secure
rather than a whole load of subscription bullshit that you'll need to go
through to keep your system up and running smoothly.

Storing your data at a remote location doesn't help you with the malware
issue. Malware infests the system, the data with malware is saved, on a
remote system, the computer is wiped and OS reinstalled, then infested
data is restored. The points is if the user doesn't practice security in
depth and safe hex, they'll have continual problems. And there is the
cost of the service.


They certainly are getting craftier. The battle will always be on, but
UAC is a good step forward. But how is it that MS bringing out a new OS
allows them to "easily write new viruses" for it? Yes MS OSs are the big
target. And a new OS presents a nice challenge. You can never stop that
cycle.


I wouldn't trust my data to that kind of system. Banks with all the
outside monitoring and regulations still can have problems. But these
data storage services don't have any outside monitoring. And certainly
for the casual user who knows nothing, there are way too many ways they
can be taken. You give all that data to some unknown person to be stored
in some unknown location? If they have physical control of the media, a
user name and password doesn't mean didley.

But where else can you store your data? On your own server in your basement?
And have the worry of it going down while you're on vacation. People who run
data centers know much more about security than I do. Yes, I know there is
always the chance that someone could download my database and get access to
all my clients email addresses and other info. I have thousands of clients
listed in my database. If someone got access to this they could really
create havoc for me. But the same goes for all the other companies who have
databases on the net. It's a risk you've just got to take - or just don't do
business.

Keith
 

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