Strange Bootup

[ms]

SP4, rollup patch.

I normally shutdown each evening, cold boot the next day. The day (and
week) before the problem was completely normal, no installs, no new
programs run. But a week ago, at the morning bootup, I first got a DOS
screen. Shut down, bootup #2- just a black screen. Bootup #3- it
worked perfectly. Since then, I haven't shut down, rebooted a few
times, it works OK, I've been saving data. Everything is, at this
point, completely normal. Am now at the point of risking a shut down.

For me, this kind of problem is very unusual, it went over 5 years
after first install before it had a reboot cycle problem. Now it's
been 5 months since that was fixed.

Before I shut down, advice as to how to proceed?

ms

 

[John John - MVP]

SP4, rollup patch.

I normally shutdown each evening, cold boot the next day. The day (and
week) before the problem was completely normal, no installs, no new
programs run. But a week ago, at the morning bootup, I first got a DOS
screen. Shut down, bootup #2- just a black screen. Bootup #3- it
worked perfectly. Since then, I haven't shut down, rebooted a few
times, it works OK, I've been saving data. Everything is, at this
point, completely normal. Am now at the point of risking a shut down.

For me, this kind of problem is very unusual, it went over 5 years
after first install before it had a reboot cycle problem. Now it's
been 5 months since that was fixed.

Before I shut down, advice as to how to proceed?

It's a bit too vague for us to give any solid advice, all I can say is
make sure that you have your precious files backed up! This sounds like
it might be a hardware problem, maybe the disk is starting to show signs
of imminent failure, I think that you should download a diagnostic
utility form the disk manufacturer's site and run it on the disk.

John

 

[ms]

It's a bit too vague for us to give any solid advice, all I can say is
make sure that you have your precious files backed up! This sounds like
it might be a hardware problem, maybe the disk is starting to show signs
of imminent failure, I think that you should download a diagnostic
utility form the disk manufacturer's site and run it on the disk.

John

Thanks, I'll look into that.

I forgot to mention in my OP, my running processes are normal, nothing
added, In my Start Menu, the same.

ms

 

[Andrew Rossmann]

SP4, rollup patch.

I normally shutdown each evening, cold boot the next day. The day (and
week) before the problem was completely normal, no installs, no new
programs run. But a week ago, at the morning bootup, I first got a DOS
screen. Shut down, bootup #2- just a black screen. Bootup #3- it
worked perfectly. Since then, I haven't shut down, rebooted a few
times, it works OK, I've been saving data. Everything is, at this
point, completely normal. Am now at the point of risking a shut down.

For me, this kind of problem is very unusual, it went over 5 years
after first install before it had a reboot cycle problem. Now it's
been 5 months since that was fixed.

Before I shut down, advice as to how to proceed?

Any floppy or CD left in a drive? I had a scare one day when I got an
'NTLDR' missing error. It was a floppy I had left in the drive that had
been formatted under Win2K.

 

[ms]

Any floppy or CD left in a drive? I had a scare one day when I got an
'NTLDR' missing error. It was a floppy I had left in the drive that had
been formatted under Win2K.

No floppy left in, but yes, it has happened to me. Even a blank floppy
in W98 causes it to give that same message, when AFAIK that machine
never had an NT program installed.

ms

 

[ms]

It's a bit too vague for us to give any solid advice, all I can say is
make sure that you have your precious files backed up! This sounds like
it might be a hardware problem, maybe the disk is starting to show signs
of imminent failure, I think that you should download a diagnostic
utility form the disk manufacturer's site and run it on the disk.

John

I have a Western Digital HD, so ran their diagnostic, the Quick Check
found everything OK. The text says the Quick Check gives a high degree
of confidence the drive has no errors. I didn't think so, I've had
very good luck over a long time with WD hard drives.

On this machine Net is not installed, the only MS program running is
the OS, IE is dormant, Office/Word/Excell/Messinger are all
uninstalled. The only installs are about 12 utilities I've used for
years in W2K and W98. So I have a quiet machine, no install games, no
updates to Flash or DirectX, etc. I mention all this to say that's why
I seldom have a problem to report.

Which leaves a puzzle as to why this is happening on startup.

Is there something else I could look into, analyse and post back?

ms

 

[Buffalo]

I have a Western Digital HD, so ran their diagnostic, the Quick Check
found everything OK. The text says the Quick Check gives a high degree
of confidence the drive has no errors. I didn't think so, I've had
very good luck over a long time with WD hard drives.

On this machine Net is not installed, the only MS program running is
the OS, IE is dormant, Office/Word/Excell/Messinger are all
uninstalled. The only installs are about 12 utilities I've used for
years in W2K and W98. So I have a quiet machine, no install games, no
updates to Flash or DirectX, etc. I mention all this to say that's why
I seldom have a problem to report.

Which leaves a puzzle as to why this is happening on startup.

Is there something else I could look into, analyse and post back?

ms

Remove and reseat the memory (ram) sticks.
Run a memory checker program (free ones available on the net)
Recheck all connectors in your PC.
Remove and reseat your video card (if it is a seperate one).
It could also be a Power Supply Unit (PSU) , but not sure how to check.
Buffalo
PS: All of the above are quick and easy to do, except for the memory checker
program (takes time) and the PSU.
Might as well do some spring cleaning while in there and get rid of all the
gunk and dust bunnies.

 

[Andrew Rossmann]

I normally shutdown each evening, cold boot the next day. The day (and
week) before the problem was completely normal, no installs, no new
programs run. But a week ago, at the morning bootup, I first got a DOS
screen. Shut down, bootup #2- just a black screen. Bootup #3- it
worked perfectly. Since then, I haven't shut down, rebooted a few
times, it works OK, I've been saving data. Everything is, at this
point, completely normal. Am now at the point of risking a shut down.

When you mention a 'DOS' screen, just what was on the screen?

 

[Buffalo]

I have a Western Digital HD, so ran their diagnostic, the Quick Check
found everything OK. The text says the Quick Check gives a high degree
of confidence the drive has no errors. I didn't think so, I've had
very good luck over a long time with WD hard drives.

On this machine Net is not installed, the only MS program running is
the OS, IE is dormant, Office/Word/Excell/Messinger are all
uninstalled. The only installs are about 12 utilities I've used for
years in W2K and W98. So I have a quiet machine, no install games, no
updates to Flash or DirectX, etc. I mention all this to say that's why
I seldom have a problem to report.

Which leaves a puzzle as to why this is happening on startup.

Is there something else I could look into, analyse and post back?

ms

Perhaps your PSU (power supply unit) is clogged with dust, overheating, or
failing.
Upon startup, the HDD(s) draw more power to start spinning than they do once
they're already spinning.
So sometimes a warm reboot will usually work OK while a cold boot might fail
on the first couple of bootup attempts.
How to check a PSU, I don't know, but I would sure make sure it is not
clogged with dust bunnies, etc.
Buffalo

 

[someone watching]

You've received a lot of good advice. The PS was mentioned a couple of
times. That was the last problem I had on an older system, had to replace
it. BTW, one thing which was not mentioned; a bad CMOS battery can also
cause a BIG variety of bootup problems, including no boot at all, corruption
of BIOS settings, and about a dozen other symptons. May want to check it.
Should be 3 volts.

 

[ms]

down.

When you mention a 'DOS' screen, just what was on the screen?

It was over a week ago that I saw that. I don't remember, but it was
not an error screen. Since it had been booting up for months, it was
totally unexpected and being a senior, it was a real surprise. Next
time I will try to document it.

ms

 

[ms]

Remove and reseat the memory (ram) sticks.
Run a memory checker program (free ones available on the net)
Recheck all connectors in your PC.
Remove and reseat your video card (if it is a seperate one).
It could also be a Power Supply Unit (PSU) , but not sure how to
check. Buffalo
PS: All of the above are quick and easy to do, except for the memory
checker program (takes time) and the PSU.
Might as well do some spring cleaning while in there and get rid of
all the gunk and dust bunnies.

Thanks, Buffalo.

Regarding memory, I ran several decent memory utilities, both report
memory ok. In my case, it's not easy to re-set memory sticks. Same for
the video card. One of the effects of bad sleep.

The machine has been it's usual troublefree status as long as I don't
shut down. IMO, if it had memory or video or power supply problems, it
wouldn't work this well.

Regarding dust bunnies. note my reply to your other post.

ms

 

[ms]

Perhaps your PSU (power supply unit) is clogged with dust,
overheating, or failing.
Upon startup, the HDD(s) draw more power to start spinning than they
do once they're already spinning.
So sometimes a warm reboot will usually work OK while a cold boot
might fail on the first couple of bootup attempts.
How to check a PSU, I don't know, but I would sure make sure it is not
clogged with dust bunnies, etc.
Buffalo

You're described a very likely sequence. The fan outlet is dusty, will
vacuum it. And when I finish saving data, will risk shut down.

BTW, in your post in the W98 group, you suggested searching for
himem.sys data, lots of data about that.

ms

 

[ms]

You've received a lot of good advice. The PS was mentioned a couple of
times. That was the last problem I had on an older system, had to
replace it. BTW, one thing which was not mentioned; a bad CMOS battery
can also cause a BIG variety of bootup problems, including no boot at
all, corruption of BIOS settings, and about a dozen other symptons.
May want to check it. Should be 3 volts.

From what I've seen, the system time malfunction is a good indicator
of the battery status.

ms

 

[Sid Elbow]

You're described a very likely sequence. The fan outlet is dusty, will
vacuum it. And when I finish saving data, will risk shut down.

OTOH, if the problem occurs when you start up a cold machine, I don't
really see a dusty power supply or a failed fan being the cause that
early in the boot sequence. Fan troubles and dirt cause problems when
they lead to overheating but that takes some time - certainly longer
than the few minutes of boot time. If troubles developed after, say, 10
or 15 minutes it would be a good place to look.

And although HD's take more power to start, it's not a great deal more
power and it only lasts for a second or so. The effect of that on the
temperature rise is tiny.

It sounds to me that once you get the thing booted it's fine - which
doesn't sound like thermal problems to me.

 

[ms]

OTOH, if the problem occurs when you start up a cold machine, I don't
really see a dusty power supply or a failed fan being the cause that
early in the boot sequence. Fan troubles and dirt cause problems when
they lead to overheating but that takes some time - certainly longer
than the few minutes of boot time. If troubles developed after, say, 10
or 15 minutes it would be a good place to look.

And although HD's take more power to start, it's not a great deal more
power and it only lasts for a second or so. The effect of that on the
temperature rise is tiny.

It sounds to me that once you get the thing booted it's fine - which
doesn't sound like thermal problems to me.

Yes. My processor temperature is 132 degrees F/56 degrees C. That's
it's usual temperature so I don't believe it's overheating.

ms

 

[ms]

SP4, rollup patch.

I normally shutdown each evening, cold boot the next day. The day (and
week) before the problem was completely normal, no installs, no new
programs run. But a week ago, at the morning bootup, I first got a

DOS

Thanks to all. For now, I will leave it running, as advice about
continuous duty cycle is somewhat different from the old days. My CPU
temperature has stayed at a nominal reading for over a week already.

ms