Stealth Updates are just wrong

[Frank]

The poster formerly known as 'The Poster Formerly Known as Nina DiBoy'
wrote:

Thanks! I don't care what anyone says about you, I think you are handy
to have around from time to time!

:-D
Frank

 

[Frank]

The poster formerly known as 'The Poster Formerly Known as Nina DiBoy'
wrote:

The poster formerly known as 'The Poster Formerly Known as Nina DiBoy'
wrote:


http://support.microsoft.com/kb/932494
Is this the article that applies to the stealth updates? Anyone know?

Sorry...have you tried turning off all associated service(s) associated
with updates?
Frank

 

[NT Canuck]

Yes it does, and I don't think they will stop because a few people
complain.

True enough, already within this forum I see very skilled people
backing down from doing any real work on this issue and looking
instead for Microsoft simply to provide an explanation...
This doesn't fix or correct the methods used or the unknown
technology and abilities demonstrated that if anyone else
had done it...would have been a critical exploit.

Microsoft's update/email and files were not immune to tampering
in the past and I don't like the possibility of leaving such
a potent single point of failure that can affect practically
the entire network with a single silent stroke untended.

It is largely because of this kind of behavior that I have switched to
Linux after more than a decade as a Windows customer.

Charlie

NT Canuck
'Seek and ye shall find'

 

[The poster formerly known as 'The Poster Formerly]

The poster formerly known as 'The Poster Formerly Known as Nina DiBoy'
wrote:


Sorry...have you tried turning off all associated service(s) associated
with updates?
Frank

Not yet, but I actually use them sometimes. I was hoping to get some
more concrete information before changing settings. But your suggestion
is appreciated none the less.

--
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"Fair use is not merely a nice concept--it is a federal law based on
free speech rights under the First Amendment and is a cornerstone of the
creativity and innovation that is a hallmark of this country. Consumer
rights in the digital age are not frivolous."
- Maura Corbett

 

[The poster formerly known as 'The Poster Formerly]

The poster formerly known as 'The Poster Formerly Known as Nina DiBoy'
wrote:

The poster formerly known as 'The Poster Formerly Known as Nina DiBoy'
wrote:

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/932494
Is this the article that applies to the stealth updates? Anyone know?

I was able to get a bit more information by watching machines as they
run the updates. I have found XP machines here that have AU turned off,
yet have the updated files (big surprise). I have also found some
machines that did not yet have the stealth updates. When updated using
the WU website, it does not update the WU files until you get to this
screen and click on this button (see screen shot at below link), so
through this method you actually are prompted:

http://www.tinyang.net/wu.JPG

If you have a machine which has not been updated yet with the stealth
updates, and AU is turned off, then you turn AU on, those files will be
updated without notification to the user before the bubble pops up from
the systray stating updates are available.

--
Priceless quotes in m.p.w.vista.general group:
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"Fair use is not merely a nice concept--it is a federal law based on
free speech rights under the First Amendment and is a cornerstone of the
creativity and innovation that is a hallmark of this country. Consumer
rights in the digital age are not frivolous."
- Maura Corbett

 

[Alias]

The poster formerly known as 'The Poster Formerly Known as Nina DiBoy'
wrote:

The poster formerly known as 'The Poster Formerly Known as Nina DiBoy'
wrote:

I was able to get a bit more information by watching machines as they
run the updates. I have found XP machines here that have AU turned off,
yet have the updated files (big surprise). I have also found some
machines that did not yet have the stealth updates. When updated using
the WU website, it does not update the WU files until you get to this
screen and click on this button (see screen shot at below link), so
through this method you actually are prompted:

http://www.tinyang.net/wu.JPG

If you have a machine which has not been updated yet with the stealth
updates, and AU is turned off, then you turn AU on, those files will be
updated without notification to the user before the bubble pops up from
the systray stating updates are available.

I got it on the XP machines then cause I always go to WU (and was
prompted) as it's easier than waiting on that fuçking yellow shield to
finally make up its mind and I like to choose what I accept. I didn't
get it with Vista because I removed that crap from my computer and now
it's dual booting with Ubuntu and XP.

 

[The poster formerly known as 'The Poster Formerly]

The poster formerly known as 'The Poster Formerly Known as Nina DiBoy'
wrote:

I got it on the XP machines then cause I always go to WU (and was
prompted) as it's easier than waiting on that fuçking yellow shield to
finally make up its mind and I like to choose what I accept. I didn't
get it with Vista because I removed that crap from my computer and now
it's dual booting with Ubuntu and XP.

Hi Alias.

I'm just trying to find out as much as possible about this since MS is
not stepping up to the plate and issuing information about it. I'm
incredibly pissed and if at all possible, I want to stop this from
happening again. But I prolly have to move everything to linux in order
to really do that.

--
Priceless quotes in m.p.w.vista.general group:
http://protectfreedom.tripod.com/kick.html

"Fair use is not merely a nice concept--it is a federal law based on
free speech rights under the First Amendment and is a cornerstone of the
creativity and innovation that is a hallmark of this country. Consumer
rights in the digital age are not frivolous."
- Maura Corbett

 

[The poster formerly known as 'The Poster Formerly]

The poster formerly known as 'The Poster Formerly Known as Nina DiBoy'
wrote:<snip>

More information:

The file wuwebv.dll is updated when you go to the WU website and you are
prompted to update 'Windows Update' from MS Windows Component Publisher
(I think it's always the first prompt, see link for a screenshot).
http://www.tinyang.net/wu1.JPG

Kerry, to test your theory about disabling the AU and BITS services in
order to see if it closes the door to one receiving stealth updates, I
have a machine here which has not been updated yet, so I disabled those
services and I am updating it exclusively through windizupdates and
firefox. I'll see if it ever gets any of these updates and post back
with any changes.

--
Priceless quotes in m.p.w.vista.general group:
http://protectfreedom.tripod.com/kick.html

"Fair use is not merely a nice concept--it is a federal law based on
free speech rights under the First Amendment and is a cornerstone of the
creativity and innovation that is a hallmark of this country. Consumer
rights in the digital age are not frivolous."
- Maura Corbett

 

[The poster formerly known as 'The Poster Formerly]

The poster formerly known as 'The Poster Formerly Known as Nina DiBoy'
wrote:<snip>

More information:

The file wuwebv.dll is updated when you go to the WU website and you are
prompted to update 'Windows Update' from MS Windows Component Publisher
(I think it's always the first prompt, see link for a screenshot).
http://www.tinyang.net/wu1.JPG

Kerry, to test your theory about disabling the AU and BITS services in
order to see if it closes the door to one receiving stealth updates, I
have a machine here which has not been updated yet, so I disabled those
services and I am updating it exclusively through windizupdates and
firefox. I'll see if it ever gets any of these updates and post back
with any changes.

--
Priceless quotes in m.p.w.vista.general group:
http://protectfreedom.tripod.com/kick.html

"Fair use is not merely a nice concept--it is a federal law based on
free speech rights under the First Amendment and is a cornerstone of the
creativity and innovation that is a hallmark of this country. Consumer
rights in the digital age are not frivolous."
- Maura Corbett

 

[Charlie Tame]

The poster formerly known as 'The Poster Formerly Known as Nina DiBoy'
wrote:

The poster formerly known as 'The Poster Formerly Known as Nina DiBoy'
wrote:
<snip>

More information:

The file wuwebv.dll is updated when you go to the WU website and you are
prompted to update 'Windows Update' from MS Windows Component Publisher
(I think it's always the first prompt, see link for a screenshot).
http://www.tinyang.net/wu1.JPG


Kerry, to test your theory about disabling the AU and BITS services in
order to see if it closes the door to one receiving stealth updates, I
have a machine here which has not been updated yet, so I disabled those
services and I am updating it exclusively through windizupdates and
firefox. I'll see if it ever gets any of these updates and post back
with any changes.

That's a very interesting bit of work you did there, thanks, it is
appreciated.

Do any of these updates show up as "Removable" (or even at all) in
add/remove? Sorry if you mentioned that and I missed it

 

[The poster formerly known as 'The Poster Formerly]

Charlie Tame wrote:

That's a very interesting bit of work you did there, thanks, it is
appreciated.

Do any of these updates show up as "Removable" (or even at all) in
add/remove? Sorry if you mentioned that and I missed it

Thanks Charlie, I figure inquiring minds want to know (I know I do!).

I have actually composed a webpage with all the info I have so far, and
I'll be adding to it as I learn more.

http://protectfreedom.tripod.com/wu.html

To answer your question, not that I can tell. It's hard to pin point
anything like that since MS has not released any hard factual info about
these stealth updates. There is no KB number to reference, and if you
look at the event viewer entries they leave when they update, they are
referred to as 'Automatic Updates'. I don't think MS could have made
this more vague and uninformative than they already have. The link
below shows screenshots of the event viewer entries:

http://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/?p=779

--
Priceless quotes in m.p.w.vista.general group:
http://protectfreedom.tripod.com/kick.html

"Fair use is not merely a nice concept--it is a federal law based on
free speech rights under the First Amendment and is a cornerstone of the
creativity and innovation that is a hallmark of this country. Consumer
rights in the digital age are not frivolous."
- Maura Corbett

 

[NT Canuck]

To answer your question, not that I can tell. It's hard to pin point
anything like that since MS has not released any hard factual info about
these stealth updates. There is no KB number to reference, and if you
look at the event viewer entries they leave when they update, they are
referred to as 'Automatic Updates'. I don't think MS could have made
this more vague and uninformative than they already have. The link
below shows screenshots of the event viewer entries:

http://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/?p=779

I think the updates also occur if you do a fresh install
but allow for web check to see if installer updated.
(after install check the installed updates folder.

Also...I would suspect the method/s used would have been
immediately amended or fudged MS ServerSide so whether any
results you get testing are for info 'current state' only.

Then...afaik MS can use update for "system files"
almost anytime,
some have said disabling the update service will stop that
from occuring since it uses the update api,
the settings in control panel
re: windows update won't disable update of sys files.

NT Canuck
'Seek and ye shall find'

 

[The poster formerly known as 'The Poster Formerly]

The poster formerly known as 'The Poster Formerly Known as Nina DiBoy'
wrote:


I think the updates also occur if you do a fresh install
but allow for web check to see if installer updated.
(after install check the installed updates folder.

Probably right, I have not had to load any new machines for a few days
now so I haven't tested that yet.

Also...I would suspect the method/s used would have been
immediately amended or fudged MS ServerSide so whether any
results you get testing are for info 'current state' only.

Could be, I'll find out soon enough.

Then...afaik MS can use update for "system files"
almost anytime,
some have said disabling the update service will stop that
from occuring since it uses the update api,
the settings in control panel
re: windows update won't disable update of sys files.

NT Canuck
'Seek and ye shall find'

That appears to be the case. Nate Clinton tries to explain that away on
the MS Updates team blog, even though there is really no excuse.

--
Priceless quotes in m.p.w.vista.general group:
http://protectfreedom.tripod.com/kick.html

"Fair use is not merely a nice concept--it is a federal law based on
free speech rights under the First Amendment and is a cornerstone of the
creativity and innovation that is a hallmark of this country. Consumer
rights in the digital age are not frivolous."
- Maura Corbett