So you really think Linux is better than Vista, do you?

S

Stephan Rose

Jeffrey said:
Isn't that called fast user switching in Vista?


Microsoft is not the only company to require activation for their
software. I can think of several right off the top of my head that
requires their
software to be activated or it will stop working. Some of them you had
better uninstall correctly in order to get your activations back and are
actually much worse than microsoft. (i'm not trying to stick up for
microsoft on the whole activation thing but it is slowly spreading to
other companies and I don't think complaining about it in this NG is going
to change that.)

Key difference is that those programs generally require activation ONCE at
install time and leave you alone once installed. Vista apparently doesn't.
As for the DRM stuff, while I think it is stupid, microsoft did not design
it they are simply implementing it so that when HDCP type media does come
out (in another 5 years if at all) you will be able to play it on your pc.
From what I understand other OS's like linux do not have it in their OS so
you won't be able to play those type of disks AT ALL on them.

DRM is everywhere. MPIAA, RIAA and even sony with their "rootkits" trying
to block people from making illegal copies. As long as you have people
willing to pirate software, music, movies, etc then you are going to see
things like DRM evolve.

And the only thing it will lead to is evolving piracy. It doesn't matter how
good you build the mouse trap, the mice will evolve.

The thing about all this stuff is that the only person it actually hurts is
the legal consumer!

Anyone that pirates the stuff is largely unaffected by it. Something new is
released, it may take a few days to crack it...once cracked...it's as if it
doesn't even exist to people pirating.

DVDs they tried to region code...so region-free players were created.
Some DVDs use CSS...software was created that removes CSS.
I actually use both of the above since I watch DVDs from different regions
that are impossible to obtain in my regions and I refuse to have dedicated
DVD players for different regions.

As far as software goes...I've yet to see a single anti piracy measure that
has not been cracked. I don't care what it calls itself...ultimately...all
of it is cracked within mere days if not hours.

Vista? It's cracked...I could go right now and get a pirated copy if I
wanted to.

Even the DRM there have been reports already of it being cracked on the net
and I don't have any doubts in that. All that someone has to do to bypass
the DRM on the HD stuff is raw-read the data on the DVD, remove the DRM
protection from it...re-write it to a new image file...mount it or burn it
ot a new DVD..voila...bye DRM.

In the end, the only person hurt by any kind of copy protection is the legal
customer who runs into a problem where their content won't play with
nothing they can do about it. The person pirating it doesn't ever run into
that problem as that person can simply circumvent the protection.

Gas Powered Games actually *removed* their copy protection from Supreme
Commander in one of their latest patches because people, rightfully so,
gave them enough shit about having to have the DVD in the drive for the
mere purpose of starting the game.

--
Stephan
2003 Yamaha R6

å›ã®ã“ã¨æ€ã„出ã™æ—¥ãªã‚“ã¦ãªã„ã®ã¯
å›ã®ã“ã¨å¿˜ã‚ŒãŸã¨ããŒãªã„ã‹ã‚‰
 
G

gls858

Jeffrey said:
Isn't that called fast user switching in Vista?


Microsoft is not the only company to require activation for their
software. I can think of several right off the top of my head that
requires their software to be activated or it will stop working. Some
of them you had better uninstall correctly in order to get your
activations back and are actually much worse than microsoft. (i'm not
trying to stick up for microsoft on the whole activation thing but it is
slowly spreading to other companies and I don't think complaining about
it in this NG is going to change that.)

As for the DRM stuff, while I think it is stupid, microsoft did not
design it they are simply implementing it so that when HDCP type media
does come out (in another 5 years if at all) you will be able to play it
on your pc. From what I understand other OS's like linux do not have it
in their OS so you won't be able to play those type of disks AT ALL on
them.

DRM is everywhere. MPIAA, RIAA and even sony with their "rootkits"
trying to block people from making illegal copies. As long as you have
people willing to pirate software, music, movies, etc then you are going
to see things like DRM evolve.

Jeff
AutoCad has had it for years. And if you think Windows Vista is
expensive price a copy of Autocad!

gls858
 
C

cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user)

You're joking! I've been building multi-volume Windows installations
from the DOS and Win3.yuk days right through to Vista RTM; it's been
my standard procedure for well over a decade now...
[/QUOTE]
Sure I keep stuff seperated into multiple volumes too even in Windows.
Generally meaning physical seperate hard disks. Don't use My Documents,
Though too much stuff (user settings, etc.) all end up inside the same areas
that windows resides in. A lot of applications automatically, especially
these days, put all sorts of things into My Documents which resides in the
OS partition.

Well duh, move it then! :)

Instead of "not using My Documents" and then wondering why everything
else does, just redefine the "My Documents" object as something else.

In XP, the easiest way to do this is to right-drag it and similar
shell locations to somewhere else, choose Move, OK any blah-blah
files, and then rename to taste. This works with everything except
the "shared" locations.

Don't try and relocate all of "Documents and Ssettings", it doesn't
work that way... and the *real* holy grail is to preset these paths in
the new account prototype. I haven't figured that out, so I don't use
multiple user accounts.

In Vista, it gets messier because there's ambiguity as to whether the
names you change are the file system directory names, or the namespace
names. That ambiguity is a messy quicksand; ugly stuff. Prolly the
best way to relocate shell folders in Vista is to rt-click the
namespace object, Properties, and change Location.

Because apps derive their own paths from shell folder base locations
when they are installed, it's best to do these relocations before any
apps are installed or files are "opened". Else you can:
- clear MRUs, to "debulk" the reference load
- use Nirsoft's RegScanner to search for old location paths
- replace these with new paths to taste


Yep, apps are beginning to look up and use shell locations like
Documents, Pictures etc. (Vista drops the cutesy "My...", TG) but
that's better than mixing data with its own code files or dumping
things in the root directory, which is what they did before :-(
The fact that most apps are so dependant on the registry already makes it
impossible to seperate the two and generally means to have to reinstall
everything if I have to reinstall the OS.

Depends on the apps, but IKWYM. It could be made easier, but it is
not in any vendor's interests to do so - untangling the "must be
installed" mess so that apps are as portable between installations as
in the DOS days would make piracy trivially easy even for dumbos.
Well that is exactly what I did. Up until MS releasing vista I've never
touched Linux. So when MS wanted me to switch operating systems, I did!
Just not to Vista. =)

Heh... it's a bit like MS Office 2007's new UI; quite a gamble, as
learning a new UI was the only barrier to switching to Open Office.

My strategy has been to favor apps that are available on both Windows
and Linux, so that if MS's EUL"A" becomes unacceptable, the move will
be softened by familiar apps at least.

When it comes to data-centric apps, I prefer those with a good data
model that doesn't bind data to a particular app version, or (worse)
an app version that's chained to some larger versioned bundle. And I
don't like apps that hide incoming material so that it can't be
scanned or managed, and that mix incoming material with data.

With that in mind, it's no surprise I avoid Outlook, Outlook Express,
etc. - my apps of choice are Eudora for email, both Firefox and IE for
web browsing, and Open Office for general office work. There doesn't
seem to be any accounting apps that don't suck, so I spreadsheet.
"sudo sh NVIDIA-Linux-x86-1.0-9755-pkg1.run"
- Enter Password
- Answer installer questions
- Done
Yes...mindblowingly difficult. =)

Yep, if you have to smell "sudo sh" etc. I like a GUI for unfamiliar
tasks, wizards for ocaisional tasks, and direct vision so I can see
what is going on; I like CLI for automation, and I like toolbar
buttons for common things and "blind" hotkeys for really common
things. That depth of UI is what completes code access and makes it
more useful than *having* to CLI everything because no-one UI'd it.
Granted, moving from one platform to a completely different platform may not
be easy. Though that doesn't make one better than the other.

My point exactly. Folks get so bogged down in trying to get a strange
OS to work the way they are used to a familiar one working, that
they're all but blind to any inherent advantages the strange OS may
have. Which language is better for expressing the remorse of old age,
English or Swahili? Few know both well enough to judge such a thing.
You don't *have* to do it that way,

Depends on the distro. One brain-dead distro *did* force me to do it
that way; the only way I could keep it down to 2 partitions was to
forgo the swap space entirely. Another (Ubuntu Hoary, I think it was;
definitely an Ubuntu from a year or so ago) would blunder into wiping
all partitions when installing itself, if you just dozed along the
duhfault click-trail... it was up to the user to detour from the
duhfault if existing installs are to be preserved.
though I figure some distro's maybe have that as their default
setting. But in case of my distro, you can set up your partions
any way you like if you go with the manual setup.

That's what I expect; once you go non-default, Ubuntu lets you do
that, too. The "bad" distro that chewed up three partitions was
either Red Hat, or what Mandrake has now become; I can't recall - it
was a PC I set up for a client who wanted to try Linux, and I sourced
the distro as companion CD-ROM with a Linux book.

In the case of this distro, going off the default track into custom
settings was not enough to find a way to (say) combine partitions, use
logicals within a partition, etc. It was "How big do you want your
System, Swap and Other partitions?" with hissy fits when I said
"sorry, you'll have to live without swap space, you pig" :)


--------------- ---- --- -- - - - -
Saws are too hard to use.
Be easier to use!
 
S

Stephan Rose

Sure I keep stuff seperated into multiple volumes too even in Windows.
Generally meaning physical seperate hard disks. Don't use My Documents,
Though too much stuff (user settings, etc.) all end up inside the same
areas that windows resides in. A lot of applications automatically,
especially these days, put all sorts of things into My Documents which
resides in the OS partition.

Well duh, move it then! :)

Instead of "not using My Documents" and then wondering why everything
else does, just redefine the "My Documents" object as something else.

In XP, the easiest way to do this is to right-drag it and similar
shell locations to somewhere else, choose Move, OK any blah-blah
files, and then rename to taste. This works with everything except
the "shared" locations.

Don't try and relocate all of "Documents and Ssettings", it doesn't
work that way... and the *real* holy grail is to preset these paths in
the new account prototype. I haven't figured that out, so I don't use
multiple user accounts.

In Vista, it gets messier because there's ambiguity as to whether the
names you change are the file system directory names, or the namespace
names. That ambiguity is a messy quicksand; ugly stuff. Prolly the
best way to relocate shell folders in Vista is to rt-click the
namespace object, Properties, and change Location.

Because apps derive their own paths from shell folder base locations
when they are installed, it's best to do these relocations before any
apps are installed or files are "opened". Else you can:
- clear MRUs, to "debulk" the reference load
- use Nirsoft's RegScanner to search for old location paths
- replace these with new paths to taste


Yep, apps are beginning to look up and use shell locations like
Documents, Pictures etc. (Vista drops the cutesy "My...", TG) but
that's better than mixing data with its own code files or dumping
things in the root directory, which is what they did before :-([/QUOTE]

See I just simply define a partion for Root and a partition for Home and
call it a friggin day. =)

Takes about 5 seconds =P
Depends on the apps, but IKWYM. It could be made easier, but it is
not in any vendor's interests to do so - untangling the "must be
installed" mess so that apps are as portable between installations as
in the DOS days would make piracy trivially easy even for dumbos.

I wish people would seriously get off this anti "piracy" trip.
Seriously...the only person it hurts is the consumer who runs into a
problem with the anti piracy measures. It does not actually *prevent* it.
Heh... it's a bit like MS Office 2007's new UI; quite a gamble, as
learning a new UI was the only barrier to switching to Open Office.

I don't even find the Open Office UI to be that much different from MS
Office (before 2007 anyway) and in some ways more intuitive.

I rarely ever actually use Office...maybe twice a year...literally.

So today I was doing some document comparisons between MS Office and Open
Office to see how well Open Office imports documents and how well the
result matches the original.

Took me seconds to find the margin settings in Open Office...
I spent about 10 minutes trying to find the stupid thing in MS Office...

The fact that MS Office had "Page Setup" greyed out didn't help due to the
file being read only, but neither does the fact that it's grouped with the
other printer options in the file menu and not under formatting stuff where
I instinctively looked first (and where Open Office has it).
My strategy has been to favor apps that are available on both Windows
and Linux, so that if MS's EUL"A" becomes unacceptable, the move will
be softened by familiar apps at least.

That's what has become my case. MS' EULA and philosophy has become
unacceptable to me. That is my largest problem with this lovely Vista and
one of the key reasons I refuse to buy it. I simply refuse to be monitored
24/7 if my install is legal.

Appears to me that MS is no longer happy enough simply taking my money for
their product, so therefore...I will keep it to myself.
When it comes to data-centric apps, I prefer those with a good data
model that doesn't bind data to a particular app version, or (worse)
an app version that's chained to some larger versioned bundle. And I
don't like apps that hide incoming material so that it can't be
scanned or managed, and that mix incoming material with data.

With that in mind, it's no surprise I avoid Outlook, Outlook Express,
etc. - my apps of choice are Eudora for email, both Firefox and IE for
web browsing, and Open Office for general office work. There doesn't
seem to be any accounting apps that don't suck, so I spreadsheet.

We've been playing around with GNUCash and our account actually seems to
prefer it now over Quickbooks =)
Yep, if you have to smell "sudo sh" etc. I like a GUI for unfamiliar
tasks, wizards for ocaisional tasks, and direct vision so I can see
what is going on; I like CLI for automation, and I like toolbar
buttons for common things and "blind" hotkeys for really common
things. That depth of UI is what completes code access and makes it
more useful than *having* to CLI everything because no-one UI'd it.

Well I personally prefer the power of a commandline for many things. I am a
programmer though so I suppose I may think differently in that regard than
the average user. Even many applications I write, even under windows, if
they are just in-house utilities I generally make them command line apps.
Plus the development overhead is by magnitudes less for me.

Also UI Apps have the distinct disadvantage that they generally require
human input, making automation difficult if necessary. =)

I can generally do things much faster with a powerful commandline than I can
with clicking around menus with the mouse.

Now that said, it would be nice if nVidia were to create installer packages
for the popular distros in addition to that script of theirs.

If for example, they were to create a debian package of their driver and put
it on their site...one could just download it (if using a debian based
distro such as ubuntu), double click it to open it with the package
manager...hit the install button..*done*. Would never need to even touch
the command line. The packager manager would automatically resolve all
dependancies (which now you have to do manually with the script) and just
merrily install it.

So in a way, the fact that you need to use the commandline to install that
nVidia driver isn't really the OS' fault. It's with nVidia for not
providing installer packages for the distros that support it.
My point exactly. Folks get so bogged down in trying to get a strange
OS to work the way they are used to a familiar one working, that
they're all but blind to any inherent advantages the strange OS may
have. Which language is better for expressing the remorse of old age,
English or Swahili? Few know both well enough to judge such a thing.

English / german / japanese for me. Haven't found a need for Swahili yet =)

You're perfectly right though. Unfortunately though for MS, I just can't
find an inherent advantage to Vista ;)
Depends on the distro. One brain-dead distro *did* force me to do it
that way; the only way I could keep it down to 2 partitions was to
forgo the swap space entirely. Another (Ubuntu Hoary, I think it was;
definitely an Ubuntu from a year or so ago) would blunder into wiping
all partitions when installing itself, if you just dozed along the
duhfault click-trail... it was up to the user to detour from the
duhfault if existing installs are to be preserved.

Hmm never used Hoary, but I've used both the Dapper and Edgy installers and
neither have that problem. By default it will pick the largest partition
with the most free space it can find and if another OS is on it, it will
offer to resize the partition. It won't wipe the existing installs though,
not even by default as far as I can tell. At least not anymore it seems. =)

And then the rest, is up to the user if they want to choose a different
partition or customize it with more detail.
That's what I expect; once you go non-default, Ubuntu lets you do
that, too. The "bad" distro that chewed up three partitions was
either Red Hat, or what Mandrake has now become; I can't recall - it
was a PC I set up for a client who wanted to try Linux, and I sourced
the distro as companion CD-ROM with a Linux book.

In the case of this distro, going off the default track into custom
settings was not enough to find a way to (say) combine partitions, use
logicals within a partition, etc. It was "How big do you want your
System, Swap and Other partitions?" with hissy fits when I said
"sorry, you'll have to live without swap space, you pig" :)

Well yea, there are lots of distro's out there and I am sure there are
plenty of them that suck. =)

Personally, I am really loving ubuntu and would not really consider any
different one unless I had to. Not even redhat really interests me all that
much.

Ubuntu basically has everything I want from an OS. I really go nuts booting
into XP now...at first I used Ubuntu with the KDE Desktop which is more
Windows-like but I ditched that for the far more efficient (in my opinion)
Gnome desktop.

I got pissed off earlier actually when I booted into XP to play some supreme
commander that is unfortunately not yet supported by Wine.

Log in...start SC....configure a little skirmish game...Windows decides to
pop up a dialog that it installed an update and gives me the 5 minutes
until it reboots dialog. I know the "reboot later" button is useless since
it will just bug me again in 15 minutes...

So reluctantly and CURSING I hit the reboot now button and go do something
else while XP shuts down..reboots..and does who knows what all else!

--
Stephan
2003 Yamaha R6

å›ã®ã“ã¨æ€ã„出ã™æ—¥ãªã‚“ã¦ãªã„ã®ã¯
å›ã®ã“ã¨å¿˜ã‚ŒãŸã¨ããŒãªã„ã‹ã‚‰
 
C

cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user)

That's simply not true. I have many players that not only read and
play video files correctly in Windows where Microsoft's player can't,
but some will even play only the first part of a multi-part vid and
again have no problem all.

I find media files are very YMMV, contrary to the notion that all
players have equal access to all codecs and thus should work or fail
the same way. Maybe it's the player that botches or succeeds in
determining which codec to use, or maybe some codes are not "seen" by
some players? I dunno, but the mileage seems variable++
I was going to say the same that have UAC turned on and think they're
protected. LOL!

Hey, nothing protects you against everything, but I've seen UAC catch
a live bullet this week. I was Googling for drivers for an ancient
scanner when one of the found pages caused an unexpected UAC prompt to
pop up - giving me (prolly the only) chance to Just Say No.
Could me, but you know what they say... first impressions. I gave
Linux not one, but seven different shots over the span of a few years.

Me2... but I'm still trying. Right now I'm downloading PCLinuxOS to
see how it does; it's a "live" ISO, so I don't have to install it.
Still my biggest gripe is Microsoft still hasn't truly fixed Windows

Define "fixed" :)


--------------- ---- --- -- - - - -
Saws are too hard to use.
Be easier to use!
 
C

cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user)

That was the original concept of Linux.. a barebones, yet highly capable
OS that could be easily customized for 'the' task in hand..

The Linux trolls in here quote the original mandate for Linux, but for a
very different product to the original concept.. the most popular distros
for personal desktop use are as bogged down with GUI and programs as ever
Windows is.. now, Linux Distos have minimum memory and disk space
requirements approaching Windows minimums.. of course, the trolls wouldn't
know this, having only recently discovered Linux in its prettier forms..
[/QUOTE]
I gotta disagree a little bit there.
My Root partition is currently at 3.7 gig usage, and that is no longer just
the OS.
That already includes things such as MySQL, Cedega, Wine, Beryl, C/C++
Development IDE, Open Office, and a few other applications. So basically
this is the equivalent of Windows + Program Files directory.
Now lets look at XP:
C:\Windows - 4.5 gig
C:\System Volume Information - 6 gigs worth of restore points

I scale SR down to 500M, which helps quite a bit.
Not included are the equivalent of any of the additional apps above.
So XP is eating 10.5 gigs of space without additional apps VS 3.7 gigs of
space with every app I pretty much need.

You're allowing it to do so, yes, but here it's kept on a shorter
leash - 5G in your case, in my case...
- < 2G = Windows
- 325M = SR (SVI)
- 1G = Documents and Settings (higher than I'd have expected)
- < 3G = Program Files (includes Open Office, MS Office, others)
- 500G = Hibernate file
- 730G = Pagefile
....all OK in a 7.9G FAT32 C: with 4k clusters.

Ah; that Documents and Settings blow-out is the PCLinuxOS ISO I'm
nearly done downloading in Temp, and the Program Files bloat is the
very useful (but not small) BDD 2007.
Memory Usage?
Ubuntu is around 200 megs average, 0 bytes virtual.
XP is around 300-400 megs avereage and an additional 200-300 megs virtual.
Why it uses virtual memory when there are 2 gigs of perfectly fine physical
memory is beyond me...but...that's how it is.

Memory in use is a meaningless metric. I only look at page file use,
i.e. whether whatever the memory load may be is actually forcing me to
thrash to disk. If no thrashing, I don't care about "free memory".
The hard drive space usage of windows doesn't bug me really. I have close to
a terrabyte of storage...don't really care.

I do care, because I like to keep a tight clean "engine room" to
concentrate 90% disk activity in as small a head sweep as possible.

It can dump as much static stuff as it likes, as long as that is not
in the "engine room" C: volume.


--------------- ---- --- -- - - - -
Saws are too hard to use.
Be easier to use!
 
C

connor_a

I've already posted about Vista running nicely on my new laptop. I've had
some encounters with Linux previously, primarily in the context of hacking
my Tivo (which is nothing but a small and not-particularly-powerful Linux
computer). I recently replaced my wife's old desktop with a new laptop, so
I thought this might be a nice time to experiment a little.

Cool, if you know what you are doing, Linux can smash vista into tiny
pieces.

Compile Gentoo with Beryl 2.0 and you get a fast slick 3D accelerated
desktop even using onboard Intel 64Mb video.

Now try doing that with Vista and you will have two graphic solutions
- Vista Basic and Classic.
 
H

Harry Krause

Cool, if you know what you are doing, Linux can smash vista into tiny
pieces.

Compile Gentoo with Beryl 2.0 and you get a fast slick 3D accelerated
desktop even using onboard Intel 64Mb video.

Now try doing that with Vista and you will have two graphic solutions
- Vista Basic and Classic.



There's little more pathetic in "computerdom" than Linux acolytes
seeking converts. If Linux were so wonderful, the world would have beat
a path to its door. Instead, it's been passed over.
 
A

Alias

Harry said:
There's little more pathetic in "computerdom" than Linux acolytes
seeking converts. If Linux were so wonderful, the world would have beat
a path to its door. Instead, it's been passed over.

You wish. The Ubuntu forums are filling up with messages that have the
title "New to Ubuntu" or something similar. Myself, I used to only use
Microsoft since DOS. It wasn't until MS decided I was a thief until I
prove otherwise that I even considered Linux. I was pleasantly surprised
at how easy Ubuntu is to install and run. Nowadays, the only time I
visit Windows on this machine is to update the AV and anti malware
programs. Ubuntu updates *everything* on your computer when an update is
available.

After people get fed up with Vista's UAC and the so-called anti-piracy
programs, you will see a lot more Linux users.

Alias
 
P

ptravel

You wish. The Ubuntu forums are filling up with messages that have the
title "New to Ubuntu" or something similar. Myself, I used to only use
Microsoft since DOS. It wasn't until MS decided I was a thief until I
prove otherwise that I even considered Linux. I was pleasantly surprised
at how easy Ubuntu is to install and run. Nowadays, the only time I
visit Windows on this machine is to update the AV and anti malware
programs. Ubuntu updates *everything* on your computer when an update is
available.

After people get fed up with Vista's UAC and the so-called anti-piracy
programs, you will see a lot more Linux users.

Alias

There are no Linux equivalents for better than half of what I run on
my Vista machine. I did get fed-up with UAC -- I just turned it off.
As for the anti-piracy programs, I've run into only one instance where
it was a serious pain, and that's in decades of using Microsoft OSs.

Sorry. Ubuntu is nice, though I like Suse and KDE better. However,
though they may provide sufficient functionality for an occasional
user, they simply don't support a lot of the software that is written
for the Windows OS. I also find Windows, generally, and Vista,
specifically, a lot easier to navigate around -- most things are in
one place, and I don't need a degree in Computer Science to do it.

Vista runs flawlessly, beautifully and quickly on my laptop. XP Pro
runs nicely on my other machines. My Linux box is running Suse 10.2
pretty well (and, as a file server, it's lightning fast even with an
old 500 MHz K6 cpu), but setting it up was considerably more difficult
than bringing up my Vista laptop -- I certainly spent far more hours
working out the kinks than I had to with Vista, and I still haven't
installed the FTP and VNC servers that I need (that's next weekend's
project).
 
H

Harry Krause

There are no Linux equivalents for better than half of what I run on
my Vista machine. I did get fed-up with UAC -- I just turned it off.
As for the anti-piracy programs, I've run into only one instance where
it was a serious pain, and that's in decades of using Microsoft OSs.

Sorry. Ubuntu is nice, though I like Suse and KDE better. However,
though they may provide sufficient functionality for an occasional
user, they simply don't support a lot of the software that is written
for the Windows OS. I also find Windows, generally, and Vista,
specifically, a lot easier to navigate around -- most things are in
one place, and I don't need a degree in Computer Science to do it.

Vista runs flawlessly, beautifully and quickly on my laptop. XP Pro
runs nicely on my other machines. My Linux box is running Suse 10.2
pretty well (and, as a file server, it's lightning fast even with an
old 500 MHz K6 cpu), but setting it up was considerably more difficult
than bringing up my Vista laptop -- I certainly spent far more hours
working out the kinks than I had to with Vista, and I still haven't
installed the FTP and VNC servers that I need (that's next weekend's
project).

I've not encountered any serious VISTA problems yet. A few petty
annoyances, most of which I have fixed with the help of posters here,
but nothing major.

LINUX is so...yesterday.
 
C

cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user)

The problem with this approach is... what if this abstracting software
doesn't work??? My experience with the Windows hardware "wizard" is that
it doesn't know where to look for a file, and it doesn't tell the user
what kind of file it expects to find, and it generally gets things right
less than half the time.

It depends on the stakes, as to whether wizarding is appropriate or
not. For example, I don't believe it is appropriate to make
irreversible data-destructive changes, so I don't like AutoChk's
"fixing" of file system errors and papering over of bad sectors.

Also, it depends on the maturity of the system it is trying to wizard.

Take CD writing, for example - initially, this was on the edge of
hardware capabilities, so we had to tip-toe around in case the data
flow was glitched and a "coaster" was ejected. Most systems had lame
CD-ROMs that couldn't read CDRs, or didn't understand multi-session,
and all manner of half-assed stuff like that.

So CD writers were a pain to sell and support. The software was
full-featured, expecting users to know their ISOs from their Joliets,
when to go multi-session or not, when to close or not, whether to burn
track-at-onxce or disk-at-once, etc. And drives were priced high,
probably because they were such a PITA to support.

Nowdays, several software packages burn CDs as a side-effect of what
they do, e.g. media players that rip, etc. We still have lame tribal
packet-writing (InCD vs. DirectCD, etc.) but increasingly techs just
don't install that anymore (Nero doesn't install it by default
anymore, either) and folks just use CDRWs as CDRs that can be
completely erased and re-used.

I still like full-featured CD writing software, and I hate MS's
strangely-abstracted CD writing that leaves stuff floating on the HD
and appearing as "ghosts" on arbitrary CDRs. But I find I hardly ever
need to "tweak" settings when burning CDRs or CDRWs, and now that I
use CDRWs as CDRs without InCD etc., I find they're just as reliable
as CDRs (with packet writing, they're really flaky).


Mind you, this isn't really about "wizards", which are not there for
things you do all the time, such as write CDRs. For that, you want a
layered GUI, i.e. what you do often on toolbar buttons and menus, and
what you rarely need to tweak within "details" dialogs.

This is immensely better than having 50 checkboxes on the same flat
dialog box, as is typical with shareware and Linux that I've seen, or
an alphabet's worth of obscure command line parameters - though at
least with CLI parameters, you can automate these via batch files.


Where wizards are useful is where you do something quite seldom, and
don't want to screw it up. A "wizard" is nothing more than a retreat
from click-anywhere random-order event-driven programming to
old-fashioned procedural programming, i.e. plodding one foot after the
other. For some things, that's still the best way to do it.

In practice, most wizards are just front-ends that serialize inputs to
the same engine that's usually event-driven in random order.
I will never forget the time I spent 3 freaking hours figuring out
how to install a winmodem... it turned out that the .inf file
referenced a mfr. part number that was one digit off from
my hardware ID string.

Yup - "never turn your back on an installer" :)
FINALLY I guessed right... I used a DOS utility to read the hardware ID
string and then edited the .inf file, and then the hardware wizard was
happy. Why couldn't the hardware wizard be programmed to tell the user
"the hardware ID string on your device does not match the ID string in
the file ***.inf"???

That's a good question. Really, text is cheap - it's absurd to have
to look up "ERROR 312" in a book in the 21st century; use a goddamn
lookup table, FFS! Tho the good thing about pithy error number
strings is that they are unique enough to be search-friendly.

The most asinine error (mis-)handling is Windows' "Unable to
communicate with the modem", which is nearly always a case of: "I said
<some AT command string> and the moden said ERROR". Why not just SAY
so in a dialog? The code has just dumped this info to the modem log
file, why not actually show it to the user? Because the user's too
dumb to understand it? The same user you show raw register dumps in
BSoDs is too dumb to understand a bad AT command string? Gah!

Talk about "designed by a committee"...
There's a middle ground between complete idiots and techno-elites...
i.e., those of us who are not experts, but are willing to roll up our
sleeves and do what needs to be done, if we only have a reasonable clue
where to start. Windows panders to complete idiots, through the use of
"wizards" that often botch the job and never provide useful information,
and thereby makes it harder than necessary to fix simple problems.

The mindset's improved in Vista, compared to "My ..." XP. There's
less condescension and a far more effective and in-depth attempt to
convey tricky technical detail in understandable terms. In fact,
Vista might be a great fit for those who don't know much, but
genuinely want to learn - because what you read, can teach you.
Bah. I changed my Ubuntu boot manager's defaults a couple of days ago,
and I figured it out intuitively. It involves editing a text file,

Where's the text editor?
How do I know which files are text, with no file name extensions?
/boot/grub/menu.lst.
Certainly it's less daunting than the Windows registry.

Sure. Once you know Regedit, you'd prolly take the Linux-like
approach of diving straight in rather than looking for GUIs to the
same settings, but it is nice not to have to.

One should be able to go to some collection of system settings, pick
out the boot loader, and edit its properties. That is what a UI is
there for. I shouldn't have to grope around editing arbitrary
settings files to do something as simple as "wait 20 seconds then boot
Windows by default".
And which is harder... troubleshooting a plain text .conf file, or
figuring out why a new copy of Windows Vista, which cost $300, has
suddenly decided it is "not genuine"?

Don't confuse "using" with "troubleshooting". Using should be easy;
troubleshooting can be expected to be tougher, as it is a minority
circumstance that's often under-anticipated.

As to vandors embedding malicious payloads held in check only by their
own automated logic... those goons better get their ASSumptions 100%
right, because any false-positive back-stabbing is an open invitation
to the mother of all class-action law suits.

I'm concerned that we are not watching Product Activation etc. as
closely as we should be - whereas XP's WPA was well-documented and had
Licenturion's XP Info as a window into the process, Vista's just
ASSumed to be "same as usual" even though it's sometimes casually
acknowledged that it's "a bit tighter".


------------------ ----- ---- --- -- - - - -
The rights you save may be your own
 
C

cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user)

Because apps derive their own paths from shell folder base locations
when they are installed, it's best to do these relocations before any
apps are installed or files are "opened". Else you can:
- clear MRUs, to "debulk" the reference load
- use Nirsoft's RegScanner to search for old location paths
- replace these with new paths to taste
Yep, apps are beginning to look up and use shell locations like
Documents, Pictures etc. (Vista drops the cutesy "My...", TG) but
that's better than mixing data with its own code files or dumping
things in the root directory, which is what they did before :-(
[/QUOTE]
See I just simply define a partion for Root and a partition for Home and
call it a friggin day. =) Takes about 5 seconds =P

And does this:
- automatically put large lumps Pics, Music etc. on larger volume?
- automatically put small lumps Pics, Music etc. on small volume?
- automatically update static, previously-derived paths?

If it doesn't, you'd have a similar amount of tap-dancing to do. Else
you'd just be moving the base of your account data subtree, which is a
lot shallower than what I'd like to do.

If the Linux architecture is elegent enough for all installed apps to
derive their paths through one-point-of-change variables, then the
last might be a yes, and that would be Very Nice. Vista supports that
sort of thing too (actually, so does XP) but as yet few developers are
using expandable strings for their internal paths.

Actually, expandable strings bring pain of their own, because it may
force you to conform to the OS's duhfault nesting strategy. There's
no "right" answer here, as it goes about what you want...

If you want strong user separation, as corporates and roaming-profile
fans do, then you'd want the present Windows approach of first forking
on user, then on content.

If you don't use user identities much, and would rather gather content
by type (e.g. small data to be backed up) irrespective of "whose" it
is, you'd want to fork first on content type (Documents, Downloads,
Pictures, Music etc.) and only then on user, if at all (i.e. you may
prefer a common store for all users).

Then you may have a piggy app you wish to exclude altogether, such as
The Sims and other games that dump 1G+ player data in the "Documents"
store, blowing out the ability to back this up on one CDR etc.

So what solves some problems, precipitates others.
I wish people would seriously get off this anti "piracy" trip.
Seriously...the only person it hurts is the consumer who runs into a
problem with the anti piracy measures. It does not actually *prevent* it.

It's getting to a point where the vendor's intent on securing their
rights is limiting or even crippling the value of their product -
something that is only possible to get away with if you are in a
monopoly situation. The only practical fix for that (other than
aimless ankle-biting by regulators) is a legal and effective WINE.

I use the word "vandor" (VANdal + venDOR) for vendors who are prepared
to presumptively payload your system on an automated suspicion of
wrong-doing, as self-defined in the EUL'A'.

Let's port that principle to the "real world".

You buy a car, and your car dealership thinks you are not keeping up
with payments, so they automate the disabling of the engine, or
perhaps they disable safety features like airbags (denial of access to
security patches). Or they break into your home to repossess it.

Then it turns out their record-keeping is faulty; you really were paid
up all along. And all they have to do is shrug and say "sorry"; the
small-print "agrreement" you signed to buy the car, gives them the
right to do as they please. This "agreement" was never negotiated
between them and any other entity; it's cooked up entirely within
their organization to meet their needs, and it overrides your local
government's legislation, the Internet being what it is.

And if you want to carry the particular goods you need to carry, you
have to buy that brand of car from that dealer, through that EULA.

This breaks a number of legal tenants common to many nations,
including the US; "innocent until proven guilty", "redress limited to
the goods in dispute", "privacy trumps credit status, only law
enforcement can search and seize", "national solereignty" etc.

MS may slowly overreach themselves in the rights they grant
themselves, with an entire industry greedily following its footsteps.
The eventual response may destroy or severely distort or cripple the
platform, or conditions may become so onerous that one is compelled to
switch to something else, even if that something else is an even worse
monopoly (Apple) or is yet to become fully-assed (Linux for dummies).

As an MVP, I'm prolly seen as committed to Windows, and I am in that
there is where the bulk of my experience, knowledge and value resides.

But my first loyalty is to the platform, not to that platform's
vendor. Where the vendor boosts the value of the platform, there's no
problem; where the vendor screws the platform up, we're in opposition.
I don't even find the Open Office UI to be that much different from MS
Office (before 2007 anyway) and in some ways more intuitive.

Yep. As I say, that UI change is one hell of a gamble, but I
understand why it was necessary... with a far richer feature set, MS
Office runs out of UI capacity far sooner than Open Office, and is
thus compelled to blink first :)

So I took a Vista + MS Office 2007 laptop out to a client who was
about to buy a new PC, and watched them dive into MS Office 2007's new
UI, cold, with no guidance provided. And they liked it; they picked
it up within a minute, and chose MS Office 2007 over 2003 and Open
Office alike, on the basis they liked the new UI better.

These weren't "computer people", but they weren't dummies, either.
They were a translator and a publisher, respectively, and they eat and
breathe word processing far more deeply than I do these days.
I rarely ever actually use Office...maybe twice a year...literally.

Same here, in these days of pervasive web and email. Before that it
was word process and fax or print, for everything. These days I use
spreadsheets more often, and that's only because all the "proper"
accounting packages I've tried have sucked beyond belief.
Took me seconds to find the margin settings in Open Office...
I spent about 10 minutes trying to find the stupid thing in MS Office...

Was that pre- or post-2007? That's the sort of hassle that 2007 aims
to address, where one is lost amongst a rich feature set.

Everyone says "so drop some features... just don't touch these crucial
ones". The problem is, everyone has a different idea of what the
crucial features are, and as I suspect most features have been
needs-driven, there's not much chaff to cut.
The fact that MS Office had "Page Setup" greyed out didn't help due to the
file being read only, but neither does the fact that it's grouped with the
other printer options in the file menu and not under formatting stuff where
I instinctively looked first (and where Open Office has it).

Yep - that is from the logic that these things are document-wide, and
in keeping with word processing's print orientation, seen as being
more closely linked to Print Preview and paper options than the rest
of formatting, which groups under sub-document style sheet scopes.

We'd think of it all as formatting, in that the actual activities are
so similar; margins, columns, etc.
I personally prefer the power of a commandline for many things. I am a
programmer though so I suppose I may think differently in that regard than
the average user. Even many applications I write, even under windows, if
they are just in-house utilities I generally make them command line apps.
Plus the development overhead is by magnitudes less for me.

Yup - that's why it's so much easier to develop as far as a CLI-driven
engine, then stop. Which is fine - just don't claim to have developed
as compete a product as one that provides a well-designed GUI.

The advantages of CLI over GUI is:
- if you learn to interact, you've already learned to automate
- it's much easier for phone support

The disadvantages are that it's far harder to get started, to get that
first 5% of ability that is often all that basic users need.

So, when I know I need to know something in-depth, I may well be happy
to CLI it. But when there are literally hundreds of different things
I may need to do once a year, there's no way I want to strive for a
50% ability level in all of them, as I may be obliged to do in Linux.

If Linux advocates are serious about <ahem> reaching out to Windows
users, then please, web up a quick how-to for these points of pain:
- how to "Ctl+Alt+Del" a task manager to kill tasks?
- how to write, save (where?) and run batch files?
- how to address drives and devices (hd0 etc.)?
- how to tell what type a file is?
Also UI Apps have the distinct disadvantage that they generally require
human input, making automation difficult if necessary. =)

Yup. This is an advantage, when it is malware that is doing the
automating :)
I can generally do things much faster with a powerful commandline than I can
with clicking around menus with the mouse.

Not if you have to do it once only, and the 5 secs keyboard vs. 2
minutes mouse clicks is offset by three hours of looking for and
reading manuals or man pages ;-)
Hmm never used Hoary, but I've used both the Dapper and Edgy installers

What vitage are those? I've not heard of either... have Ubuntu really
stayed on track with "new version every 6 months"?
Well yea, there are lots of distro's out there and I am sure there are
plenty of them that suck. =)

Picking the "right" distro (where "right" is YMMV) is an art in
itself... it's also the tribalism that bedevils compatibility in a
good way; by fracturing the target for malware.

If MacOS grew to (say) 40% market share, it would attract the same
sort of pounding that Windows "enjoys" today. With those
more-money-than-skills users, it would be a feed-fest.

OTOH, if the collection of Linuxen were to grow to 40% market share,
it would be a target of disparate parts, much as is the case with the
March 2007 av landscape in the Windows world.

Some by-design attacks would apply to all equally, but the deep and
nasty code exploits would often be limited to a particular distro.
Even if multiple distros shared the same defect, the offsets needed to
get code to run properly (as opposed to a simple DoS effect) would
likely be different - and that's a lot more work.

In fact, it's more likely that attackers would concentrate on
commonly-used edge-facing surfaces than the core OS itself.
I got pissed off earlier actually when I booted into XP to play some supreme
commander that is unfortunately not yet supported by Wine.

Games on WINE will be tough, as DirectX is large, complex, and has to
be really efficiently-coded to work acceptably.

OTOH, Vista itself poses "non-native OS" challenges to existing apps,
made worse by last-minute changes late in the final betas that
ambushed several vendors who were ready to go as late as mid-2006.
Log in...start SC....configure a little skirmish game...Windows decides to
pop up a dialog that it installed an update and gives me the 5 minutes
until it reboots dialog. I know the "reboot later" button is useless since
it will just bug me again in 15 minutes...

I strangle that at birth:
- Settings, Contral Panel, System, Advanced tab
- clear the "automatically restart on errors" checkbox, OK

It's an absurd duhfault, and I dunno what MS persisted this from XP
into Vista. The sort of thing that casts doubts on developer sanity.


--------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - -
Tech Support: The guys who follow the
'Parade of New Products' with a shovel.
 
C

cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user)

On Wed, 14 Mar 2007 12:56:09 -0400, "Jeffrey S. Sparks"
Isn't that called fast user switching in Vista?

No, I think he's refrerring to concurrent users, much as PICK used to
do with serial "dumb terminals". Windows does offer this via Terminal
Server, but only with the cost blow-out of the server-grade OS and
fairly fat clients. Think how multi-tasking is "faked" on one CPU and
"true' on multiple CPUs, so "fast switching" is to concurrent users.

Games are written to wring the max out of the hardware, so sure, two
games at once is gonna hurt. Games are one of the most "foreground
uber alles" application categories you can get :)
As for the DRM stuff, while I think it is stupid, microsoft did not design
it they are simply implementing it

"We was only following orders" - yeah, right.


------------------ ----- ---- --- -- - - - -
The rights you save may be your own
 
C

connor_a

(e-mail address removed) wrote:
I've not encountered any serious VISTA problems yet. A few petty
annoyances, most of which I have fixed with the help of posters here,
but nothing major.

How about the "magical" screen refresh rate change upon logon (anyone
got a fix so I can 'lock' the refresh rate!!)

Windows explorer yet again without dual pane.

What used to be done with a few mouse clicks now takes several (ie.
personalize your desktop).

Even for basic file op's, vista is paranoid. Are you sure you want to
do this, son??? ;)

Windows Classic implementation looks as though its done by high school
kids, those start/shutdown icons lol

LINUX is so...yesterday.

If you have the expertise Gentoo with AIGLX, beryl, OO2.2 and Firefox
do the job nice and fast.

Even with onboard low end Intel 64Mb cards, I get full hardware
acceleration effects:

http://www.beryl-project.org/features.php

Now try that with Vista!
 
M

MICHAEL

I strangle that at birth:
- Settings, Contral Panel, System, Advanced tab
- clear the "automatically restart on errors" checkbox, OK

It's an absurd duhfault, and I dunno what MS persisted this from XP
into Vista. The sort of thing that casts doubts on developer sanity.[/QUOTE]

It is such a pleasure to read your posts. I'm glad you're here.


Take care,

Michael
 
S

Stephan Rose

cquirke said:
Where's the text editor?

Right up by "Applications" where all the other applications are. =)
How do I know which files are text, with no file name extensions?

Actually you know that quite easily via the GUI. If you open the file
explorer, the thumbnails will show text file contents if it is a text file.
That will instantly differentiate binaries from text. =)

From a commandline...you do have to just know.
Though, if it is a configuration file..it's test. Period. At least I've yet
to encounter even a single binary config file anywhere.
Sure. Once you know Regedit, you'd prolly take the Linux-like
approach of diving straight in rather than looking for GUIs to the
same settings, but it is nice not to have to.

One should be able to go to some collection of system settings, pick
out the boot loader, and edit its properties. That is what a UI is
there for. I shouldn't have to grope around editing arbitrary
settings files to do something as simple as "wait 20 seconds then boot
Windows by default".

Well to be honest, the average user is probably not likely to edit their
bootloader...nor enver have to. Most people generally don't run dual boots.
Heck, most don't even know what an OS is or that they have one!!

When someone comes to me, they very rarely have a problem with their "OS"
or "Windows"...they 99% of the time come to me with "My computer is
broken"...followed by a blank confused stare if I ask them what OS they are
running.

Those people are not likely, and probably never should, touch their boot
configuration file with or without an UI!

People that do run multiple operating systems and actually have any need to
edit that file I think it is fair enough to say they can handle editing a
text file. That is most likely why you don't see a GUI to edit grub.

--
Stephan
2003 Yamaha R6

å›ã®ã“ã¨æ€ã„出ã™æ—¥ãªã‚“ã¦ãªã„ã®ã¯
å›ã®ã“ã¨å¿˜ã‚ŒãŸã¨ããŒãªã„ã‹ã‚‰
 
S

Stephan Rose

See I just simply define a partion for Root and a partition for Home and
call it a friggin day. =) Takes about 5 seconds =P

And does this:
- automatically put large lumps Pics, Music etc. on larger volume?
- automatically put small lumps Pics, Music etc. on small volume?
- automatically update static, previously-derived paths?

If it doesn't, you'd have a similar amount of tap-dancing to do. Else
you'd just be moving the base of your account data subtree, which is a
lot shallower than what I'd like to do.

If the Linux architecture is elegent enough for all installed apps to
derive their paths through one-point-of-change variables, then the
last might be a yes, and that would be Very Nice. Vista supports that
sort of thing too (actually, so does XP) but as yet few developers are
using expandable strings for their internal paths.[/QUOTE]

I am pretty sure stuff like that can be done, though I am personally not
concerned with seperating stuff to *that* high of a degree. If I got my
data seperate from my OS, I am generally happy. Due to that, I can't really
give an in-depth answer to it as I've never really looked into it.

I have to say this though, I've found linux to be exceedingly more flexible
with stuff that you can do in the file system that I can only dream of in
XP (though *some* functionality can be added in XP via 3rd party stuff).

I am still only scratching the surfaces of what is possible to do, though so
far my needs are met.

Piracy is already trivially easy as far as I am concerned...

MS may slowly overreach themselves in the rights they grant
themselves, with an entire industry greedily following its footsteps.
The eventual response may destroy or severely distort or cripple the
platform, or conditions may become so onerous that one is compelled to
switch to something else, even if that something else is an even worse
monopoly (Apple) or is yet to become fully-assed (Linux for dummies).

I could not possibly agree more with that, and the preceeding snipped
statements.
As an MVP, I'm prolly seen as committed to Windows, and I am in that
there is where the bulk of my experience, knowledge and value resides.

But my first loyalty is to the platform, not to that platform's
vendor. Where the vendor boosts the value of the platform, there's no
problem; where the vendor screws the platform up, we're in opposition.



Yep. As I say, that UI change is one hell of a gamble, but I
understand why it was necessary... with a far richer feature set, MS
Office runs out of UI capacity far sooner than Open Office, and is
thus compelled to blink first :)

So I took a Vista + MS Office 2007 laptop out to a client who was
about to buy a new PC, and watched them dive into MS Office 2007's new
UI, cold, with no guidance provided. And they liked it; they picked
it up within a minute, and chose MS Office 2007 over 2003 and Open
Office alike, on the basis they liked the new UI better.

These weren't "computer people", but they weren't dummies, either.
They were a translator and a publisher, respectively, and they eat and
breathe word processing far more deeply than I do these days.

I do agree, the UI is nice...I've seen screenshots.
Same here, in these days of pervasive web and email. Before that it
was word process and fax or print, for everything. These days I use
spreadsheets more often, and that's only because all the "proper"
accounting packages I've tried have sucked beyond belief.

Finally someone that doesn't worship the ground Quickbooks walks on. =)
Was that pre- or post-2007? That's the sort of hassle that 2007 aims
to address, where one is lost amongst a rich feature set.

It was Office 2003, while I like the UI of 2007, the UI alone does not
justify the expense for me to get it.
Yup - that's why it's so much easier to develop as far as a CLI-driven
engine, then stop. Which is fine - just don't claim to have developed
as compete a product as one that provides a well-designed GUI.

I do it for internal in-house stuff so spending weeks on a well designed UI
would be a waste usually. =) The only exceptions to that rule are if it
goes to people in production or so and they have to use it on a daily
basis, then it does get an UI to precisely suit their needs.
If Linux advocates are serious about <ahem> reaching out to Windows
users, then please, web up a quick how-to for these points of pain:
- how to "Ctl+Alt+Del" a task manager to kill tasks?

That I honestly don't know off the top of my head. I usually just access it
via the easily accessible system menu. There probably *is* some shortcut
for it, I just don't know it.
- how to write, save (where?) and run batch files?

Depends on your needs. You can either store them locally in the directory
you need them or store them in /usr/bin if they are to be globally
accessibly from anywhere and by any user.
- how to address drives and devices (hd0 etc.)?

Generally...you don't unless you need to mount it. No switching between
drives like you do in windows. The fact that my home and root directories
are on seperate partitions, where in windows each would have its own drive
letter, is not even visible from the file system here.

You can map *any* directory *anywhere* to virtually *anything* and what it
is actually mapped to is invisible when accessing it.

In my case...

/ = sdc1
/home = sdc3
/media/windows = /sda1 (WinXP drive)
/media/data = /sdb1 (2nd NTFS data drive, I may convert this to ext3 and
make it a linux drive soon)
/media/cdrom0 = My dvd drive
/cdrom = Same as /media/cdrom0

In addition to that..I can create mappings to stored DVD images I want to a
directory like the above.

For example, I have all my favorite DVDs saved as images on the hard drive
so the original disks don't get damaged. I could then go ahead and create a
directory for each DVD by name and then map the corresponding image to the
directory. Then when I want to watch it, just point my media player at the
directory...and it plays!
- how to tell what type a file is?

Files generally still have extensions just under windows. The only thing
that generally doesn't have an extension are things that are executable, be
they binaries or scripts.

But other than that..images, source files, whatever else you can come up
with...have the same extensions as they do under windows (excluding
application-specific stuff of course).
Yup. This is an advantage, when it is malware that is doing the
automating :)

Thing is malware can do extremely little damage to my linux system. It can't
access anything actually important. It could mess with stuff in my /home
directory...that's about it...and there isn't much useful there it could
do.

I'd have to go through quite some trouble to give malware root access and
actually let it do damage.
Not if you have to do it once only, and the 5 secs keyboard vs. 2
minutes mouse clicks is offset by three hours of looking for and
reading manuals or man pages ;-)



What vitage are those? I've not heard of either... have Ubuntu really
stayed on track with "new version every 6 months"?

Honestly I am not sure on the exact release dates of Edgy and Dapper. Dapper
is version 6.06 and Edgy is the newer 6.10 version.

I do know though that they are having a new release though coming up April
19th that is in heavy beta testing right now. And unlike Vista, when it
comes out, it won't break 80% of my applications. =)
Picking the "right" distro (where "right" is YMMV) is an art in
itself... it's also the tribalism that bedevils compatibility in a
good way; by fracturing the target for malware.

If MacOS grew to (say) 40% market share, it would attract the same
sort of pounding that Windows "enjoys" today. With those
more-money-than-skills users, it would be a feed-fest.

OTOH, if the collection of Linuxen were to grow to 40% market share,
it would be a target of disparate parts, much as is the case with the
March 2007 av landscape in the Windows world.

Well that and coupled with the fact that infecting a linux system with
malware, while I won't call it impossible, is by default already
significantly more difficult than under windows.
Some by-design attacks would apply to all equally, but the deep and
nasty code exploits would often be limited to a particular distro.
Even if multiple distros shared the same defect, the offsets needed to
get code to run properly (as opposed to a simple DoS effect) would
likely be different - and that's a lot more work.

In fact, it's more likely that attackers would concentrate on
commonly-used edge-facing surfaces than the core OS itself.


Games on WINE will be tough, as DirectX is large, complex, and has to
be really efficiently-coded to work acceptably.

Honestly, developers need to simply just ditch DX and use OpenGL and be done
with it. There isn't a thing DX can do that OpenGL can't.

OpenGL + OpenAL and games can easily developed for *any* platform...

I am doing that precise thing with my own applications...it works very
nicely.


--
Stephan
2003 Yamaha R6

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Stephan Rose

MICHAEL said:
It is such a pleasure to read your posts. I'm glad you're here.

Seconded, I had the same thoughts actually.

--
Stephan
2003 Yamaha R6

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cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user)

cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user) wrote:

Right up by "Applications" where all the other applications are. =)
Cool!
Actually you know that quite easily via the GUI. If you open the file
explorer, the thumbnails will show text file contents if it is a text file.
That will instantly differentiate binaries from text. =)

Hmm... generally I prefer to avoid per-file content digging when
listing files, for two reasons. Firsltly, because I want to eyeball
as many files as I can without scrolling. Secondly, because groping
content exposes potentially exploitable surfaces to material that I
may want to avoid "opening" in any way.

I admit I'm coming at this with expectations preconcieved from the DOS
era, i.e. that there will be a non-spoofable predictor of file risk
level that is indivisibly as visible as the file name itself.

This was true in the DOS era ("don't run .exe, .com or .bat"), had
become less true in modern Windows due to the erosion of type
discipline and the data/code distinction, but may never have been true
in *NIX. How do *NIXers know in advance whether an arbitrary file
poses the low risk of "viewing data" vs, hi risk of "running code"?
From a commandline...you do have to just know.

Ewww... wrong answer ;-)
Though, if it is a configuration file..it's test. Period. At least I've yet
to encounter even a single binary config file anywhere.

R/test/text/ ?

You see, this is where a battle-hardened "urban" Windows user may have
stronger street-smarts than a "village" MacOS or *NIX user :)

For us, "trust it, it's usually safe" is just soooo much the "wrong
answer", because we're used to content routinely attempting to attack
us. A file from "outside" is always treated malware unless proven
otherwise, and I don't consider av scanning as "proof". A file from
"inside" that is infectable (code, macro-enabled "data") is also to be
considered suspect in many contexts, such as inclusion within backups
that are to be resorted to after unexplained data loss.

So I really do want to know whether a file is "data" (safe to view) or
"code" (higher risk of running scripts etc.) as soon as I see it.

Now you may say "oh, don't worry, no-one bothers to attack Linux" but
that may change if Linux gains market share. If Linux never gains
market share, many of us would see no reason to bother with it (it may
suit our personal needs, but isn't relevant if we are to support or
supply a wider market). If we are interested because we anticipate
Linux gaining significant market share, then Linux has to be able to
weather the malware attention this growth will attract.

It's asserted that Linux gets less malware attention because it is
fundamentally harder to attack (either due to tribalism breaking up
the target volume, or inherent OS strengths) and it's been
counter-asserted that Linux gets less malware attention purely because
it is too small a target to bother with.

We don't have to predict an answer to that debate, but we have to
acknowledge the answer will remain unknown (no matter how vigorously
asserted) until Linux gains enough share to be put to the test.
Well to be honest, the average user is probably not likely to edit their
bootloader...

They will have to, if they are just trying out a Linux via dual-boot,
and the Linux-imposed boot loader auto-boots Linux after a brief delay
during which they have to scrable to choose non-default Windows
instead. It's generally the first change made after setting up.
Most people generally don't run dual boots.

In the context of advocating Linux to Windows users, dual-boot is
likely to be the norm, unless forks try out Linux as a "live" optical
disk booted form. I do like "live" Linux, but it would be unfair to
evaluate performance on that basis, so once the basic usability passes
muster, the next step is to set up a dual-booted HD installation,
unless there's a spare PC lying around.
Those people are not likely, and probably never should, touch their boot
configuration file with or without an UI!

It can be argued that Linux itself is simply not for them, either.
People that do run multiple operating systems and actually have any need to
edit that file I think it is fair enough to say they can handle editing a
text file. That is most likely why you don't see a GUI to edit grub.

If the installation process creates the bootloader and thus imposes
unwanted bootloader settings, then it must provide an UI, and
preferably an easy GUI, to fixing these.

We bash MS for anticompetitive behavior if a tortuous or
counter-intuitive UI has to be followed to undo a setting thay want to
impose and we want to change. Same should apply to Linux.


--------------- ---- --- -- - - - -
Saws are too hard to use.
Be easier to use!
 

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