Size of Used Space on Main Drive

[George]

My computer hard disk is partitioned into C and D drives. The larger part is
the C drive which is the subject here.

1. When I check the size of the used space by this path: My
Computer>highlight C:/>right click>click on properties - I get Used Space:
30.9 GB, Free Space: 197 GB.

2. When I check for size by this path: My Computer>double click drive
C>Edit>Select All>File>Properties - I get size: 13.7 GB, size on disk: 11.7
GB.

3. The difference between the two above is about 17 GB (30.9 GB - 13.7 GB).
Why the 17 GB difference and where is it kept? Is this a normal addition to
the used disk space for an surf-and-email home user?

I'm trying to determine why the used space on the C drive has increased so
much in the past three months - from about 12 GB to 30 GB.

Your help appreciated.

 

[Tim Meddick]

George,
On the C: drive, there are going to be files (& folders) that Windows has
COMPRESSED (you may have also compressed files and folders on the drive) - this is
the "cause" of the "discrepancy" between the reported "Size" and "Size on disk"...

Hope this explanation suffices...

==

Cheers, Tim Meddick, Peckham, London.

 

[John]

1. When I check the size of the used space by this path: My
Computer>highlight C:/>right click>click on properties - I get Used Space:
30.9 GB, Free Space: 197 GB.

2. When I check for size by this path: My Computer>double click drive
C>Edit>Select All>File>Properties - I get size: 13.7 GB, size on disk:
11.7
GB.

3. The difference between the two above is about 17 GB (30.9 GB - 13.7
GB).
Why the 17 GB difference and where is it kept? Is this a normal addition
to
the used disk space for an surf-and-email home user?

My guess is Restore Points (C:\System Volume Information). You have no
access to the folder but it consumes disk space.

I'm trying to determine why the used space on the C drive has increased so
much in the past three months - from about 12 GB to 30 GB.

Did you install a lot of patches? Service Pack? .NET Framework patches?

 

[R. McCarty]

Check the usage of \Windows\Installers
It's not uncommon to have a sudden, large increase in the size of
that folder.

 

[Lem]

My computer hard disk is partitioned into C and D drives. The larger part is
the C drive which is the subject here.

1. When I check the size of the used space by this path: My
Computer>highlight C:/>right click>click on properties - I get Used Space:
30.9 GB, Free Space: 197 GB.

2. When I check for size by this path: My Computer>double click drive
C>Edit>Select All>File>Properties - I get size: 13.7 GB, size on disk: 11.7
GB.

3. The difference between the two above is about 17 GB (30.9 GB - 13.7 GB).
Why the 17 GB difference and where is it kept? Is this a normal addition to
the used disk space for an surf-and-email home user?

I'm trying to determine why the used space on the C drive has increased so
much in the past three months - from about 12 GB to 30 GB.

Your help appreciated.

The difference in reported occupied space most likely is because the
second method is not counting hidden and system files (which could well
account for 17 GB).

If you are interested in determining what is taking up space, download
JDiskReport: http://www.jgoodies.com/freeware/jdiskreport/

Note than one place you likely can save some space is System Restore. By
default, System Restore uses 12% of the partition size. For your C:\
partition, which is about 227 GB, SR will be taking up over 27 GB. You
should change this to about 1 GB. See
http://bertk.mvps.org/html/diskspace.html

If you are using your D:\ partition for data, you should turn off SR for
that partition.

You can also limit the size of your browser cache (aka Temporary
Internet Files for IE). IIRC, IE defaults to reserving 10% of your
partition. You can do perfectly fine with a 50 MB cache.

 

[George]

Tim,

Hadn't thought of compressed files being expressed as a smaller size than
the total would indicate. That could account for some of the size difference.
Thanks.

 

[George]

Hello John,

Tried to get into C:\System Volume Information - followed instructions but
am denied access. That could well be it. I have lots of restore points going
back several months...

Will work on that. Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[George]

Hello R. McCarty,

Can't find a folder "Installers." My path is: My Computer>C:/>Windows>???

In the Windows folder there are about 200 folders with the word "uninstall"
between $Nt and about 6-7 numbers on the end of the folder name. Are those
the folders you refer to?

My guess is their total size is about 1 GB. Are they expendable?

 

[George]

Dear Lem,

Yes, both C:/ and D:/ partitions were set for the maximum allowable space
usage. Setting them lower as indicated, I think will make a great difference
and explains much of the descrepancy I noted.

Also, thank you for the JDiskReport address. in addition, will adjust cache
down to 50 MB.

Splendid inciteful analysis. Sincere thanks for excellent recommendations.

 

[George]

Tim,

Thanks again. Will look over the sites you recommended with keen interest.

Many thanks for educating me on how to find and display where the data is
being stored.
--
George XP Home Edition SP3

In addition, there is a great [free] tool that displays in - graphical format - disk usage in the form of coloured boxes that represent files arranged into larger blocks - folders.

It is called "WinDirStat" and is very similar to another program called "SequoiaView" but has extra view-panes that you can back-trace the distribution of space taken up by certain types of file as well as by folder location.

You can download the free program by clicking on the link below :
http://kent.dl.sourceforge.net/sourceforge/windirstat/windirstat1_1_2_setup.exe

Or obtain some info on WinDirStat at :
http://windirstat.info/

Screenshot -



==

Cheers, Tim Meddick, Peckham, London.

My computer hard disk is partitioned into C and D drives. The larger part is
the C drive which is the subject here.

1. When I check the size of the used space by this path: My
Computer>highlight C:/>right click>click on properties - I get Used Space:
30.9 GB, Free Space: 197 GB.

2. When I check for size by this path: My Computer>double click drive
C>Edit>Select All>File>Properties - I get size: 13.7 GB, size on disk: 11.7
GB.

3. The difference between the two above is about 17 GB (30.9 GB - 13.7 GB).
Why the 17 GB difference and where is it kept? Is this a normal addition to
the used disk space for an surf-and-email home user?

I'm trying to determine why the used space on the C drive has increased so
much in the past three months - from about 12 GB to 30 GB.

Your help appreciated.

 

[Tim Slattery]

My computer hard disk is partitioned into C and D drives. The larger part is
the C drive which is the subject here.

1. When I check the size of the used space by this path: My
Computer>highlight C:/>right click>click on properties - I get Used Space:
30.9 GB, Free Space: 197 GB.

This is showing you a report of space actually used and available on
your disk. This is the number you should be most interested in.

2. When I check for size by this path: My Computer>double click drive
C>Edit>Select All>File>Properties - I get size: 13.7 GB, size on disk: 11.7
GB.

I think that what you've done here is select all the files that
Windows Explorer is showing you. The default setting is for Windows
Explorer not to show system files, hidden files, and "protected
operating system files". So this report is not giving data on *all*
files on your drive.

3. The difference between the two above is about 17 GB (30.9 GB - 13.7 GB).
Why the 17 GB difference and where is it kept? Is this a normal addition to
the used disk space for an surf-and-email home user?

The 17GB difference is your system files - swap (paging) file, temp
files (I think), IE cache, all kinds of system files in the \Windows
directory.

 

[Lem]

Dear Lem,

Yes, both C:/ and D:/ partitions were set for the maximum allowable space
usage. Setting them lower as indicated, I think will make a great difference
and explains much of the descrepancy I noted.

Also, thank you for the JDiskReport address. in addition, will adjust cache
down to 50 MB.

Splendid inciteful analysis. Sincere thanks for excellent recommendations.

YW

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

George,
On the C: drive, there are going to be files (& folders) that Windows has
COMPRESSED (you may have also compressed files and folders on the drive) - this is
the "cause" of the "discrepancy" between the reported "Size" and "Size on disk"...

Hope this explanation suffices...

Tim, this isn't correct, for two reasons:

1. George wasn't asking about the difference between "size" and "size
on disk." He was asking about the difference between the size that was
reported in two different ways. George, see Tim Slattery's reply for
the correct answer.

2. The difference between "size" and "size on disk" has nothing to do
with files being compressed. It's because files are stored in
increments of disk space called clusters. If the drive is NTFS, the
default cluster size is 4096 bytes. So, for example, if you have a
file that's 4097 bytes, it takes up two clusters, or 8192 bytes of
disk space. That would mean that that for that file, the "file size"
is 4097 bytes, but the "size on disk" is 8192.

 

[John]

Can't find a folder "Installers." My path is: My Computer>C:/>Windows>???

You gotta show system files. Uncheck the following option:
Tools - Folder Options - View (tab) - Hide protected operating system files
(Recommended)

My guess is their total size is about 1 GB. Are they expendable?

Leave them alone.

 

[John]

Restore points can take up several GBs. If you'd like to reclaim the space
and you're sure that you won't need any of the restore points, disable
system restore then re-enable it.

 

[Richard]

[see bottom replies]

My computer hard disk is partitioned into C and D drives. The larger part
is
the C drive which is the subject here.

1. When I check the size of the used space by this path:
My Computer>highlight C:/>right click>click on properties - I get
Used Space: 30.9 GB, Free Space: 197 GB.

2. When I check for size by this path: My Computer>double click
drive C>Edit>Select All>File>Properties - I get
size: 13.7 GB, size on disk: 11.7 GB.

3. The difference between the two above is about 17 GB
(30.9 GB - 13.7 GB).
Why the 17 GB difference and where is it kept? Is this a normal addition
to the used disk space for an surf-and-email home user?

I'm trying to determine why the used space on the C drive has increased so
much in the past three months - from about 12 GB to 30 GB.

Your help appreciated.

Hi George,

See other messages for answers to your main question. One way to check on
how much the used space has increased is to use the file and folder search
and "Created Date" range to see what all files have been added in a
particular time frame.

Click Start, click Search, click for Files and Folders, all files and
folders. In "All or part of the file name" box type "*.*" without quotes.
Click "More Advanced Options", checkmark "Search system folders", checkmark
"Search hidden files and folders", checkmark "Search subfolders". (Click
More advanced options again to collapse that.) Click "When was it modified?"
Click "Specify dates". Click dropdown box and select "Created Date". Change
"from" date to 1 or more months before now. (Click "When was it modified"
again to collapse that.) Click Search button. (Take a snack break.

After search results fill right pane, click View (on menu bar above) and
click Details. Again click View, and click "Choose Details". Click a
checkmark before "Date Created". Click OK. Then in right pane, click at the
top of the Date Created column to sort the results in creation order, and
press F5 key to Refresh. You might want to maximize the window also, and
press Ctrl+E to close the left search pane, to see more of your "stuff".

I just tried that, for the past several months, one month at a time:
April 21572 files, 1403 MB on disk. (Lotta "stuff" from other computer.)
May 1301 files, 667 MB on disk.
June 1330 files, 201 MB on disk.
July 2114 files, 98.6 MB on disk.
August 3232 files, 17.7 MB on disk.
Total used space on C-drive: 15.3 GB (16,504,229,888 bytes)

Most of the recent files are small Web pages that were FileSaved. Those
figures do not include folders, or System Volume Information restore points
or pagefile.sys or some other super hidden system files.

I recently "flushed" about 2 months worth of "stuff" from my (TIF) Temporary
Internet Files, and don't remember how much disk space was freed up, but it
was less than 2 GB. So, with dialup internet connection my TIF gains less
than 1 GB per month. With high speed connection you can fill your TIF with
"stuff" a lot faster. You apparently still have about 85% free space on your
C-partition, so you still have some breathing room. Let us know what your
further search results turn up.

(Triple-click here, to live without fear.
--Richard

 

[Richard]

[see bottom replies]

This is showing you a report of space actually used and available on
your disk. This is the number you should be most interested in.


I think that what you've done here is select all the files that
Windows Explorer is showing you. The default setting is for Windows
Explorer not to show system files, hidden files, and "protected
operating system files". So this report is not giving data on *all*
files on your drive.


The 17GB difference is your system files - swap (paging) file, temp
files (I think), IE cache, all kinds of system files in the \Windows
directory.

Hi Tim,

Thanks for sharing your insights. I think his "difference" may actually be
19.2GB, the difference between 30.9GB and the 11.7GB "size on disk". The
13.7GB size includes inflated true sizes of files in compressed folders.
(See below.)

On my 250 GB (234 GiB) C-drive, even showing protected operating system
files, and ordinary system files, and hidden files, the SelectAll Properties
method is still less than the C-drive property sheet amount. The difference
between with and without showing "protected operating system files", was the
size of my pagefile.sys, boot.ini and a few other minor root files. However,
the "System Volume Information" folder properties still showed 0 bytes on
its Properties with all Folder Options set to show hidden and super hidden
files, so apparently that would account for some of the 1.9 GB difference
between the SelectAll size and the whole C-drive Properties size. My System
Restore is allowed to use 28GB, and has a full 90 days worth of restore
points. I had to change the (security tab) access from System user only,
to include me, to view the files, and then its properties showed:

Volume System Information Properties
Size: 3.69 GB (3,965,851,892 bytes)
Size on disk: 1.70 GB (1,834,372,878 bytes)
Contains: 5,230 Files, 361 Folders

Note the size (3.69) is greater than the space (1.70) the files use on the
disk, because most of the "RP<number>" folders are (blue text) compressed
folders, but Properties is reporting the uncompressed size of the files.
I've account for all but .2GB of the difference, which I assume is in some
other super hidden System folders. (And, oh wow! Why do I have 28GB reserved
for restore points if all 90 restore points use less than 2GB disk space?

"And... we're walking..."

FWIW. --Richard

 

[Richard]

[see bottom replies]

Tim, this isn't correct, for two reasons:

1. George wasn't asking about the difference between "size" and "size
on disk." He was asking about the difference between the size that was
reported in two different ways. George, see Tim Slattery's reply for
the correct answer.

2. The difference between "size" and "size on disk" has nothing to do
with files being compressed. It's because files are stored in
increments of disk space called clusters. If the drive is NTFS, the
default cluster size is 4096 bytes. So, for example, if you have a
file that's 4097 bytes, it takes up two clusters, or 8192 bytes of
disk space. That would mean that that for that file, the "file size"
is 4097 bytes, but the "size on disk" is 8192.

Hi Ken,

Your #2 comment is talking about ordinary cluster "slack" wasting disk
space. With slack you would have a file size SMALLER than the size on disk
amount. And yes, you are right about what George was talking about. However,
Tim Meddick was apparently noticing George's puzzling 2nd property sheet
that showed "size: 13.7 GB, size on disk: 11.7 GB." The size (13.7) of the
files there is not smaller, but GREATER than the space (11.7) they take up
on the disk, due to the fact that the "Size" total includes the uncompressed
size of files within compressed folders. Open your Windows folder, and
right-click and check Properties on one of the hidden "$NtUninstall<etc>"
folders, and note the larger "Size" compared with "Size on disk" figures.

My most recent folder in Windows is "$NtUninstallKB970653-v3$"
(with 7 files, and 1 sub folder.)

The properties of that compressed folder:
Size: 766 KB (785,342 bytes)
Size on Disk: 464 KB (475,136 bytes)
[Size on Disk 302 KB smaller, due to compression]

After copying the files to a new regular folder:
Size: 766 KB (785,342 bytes)
Size on Disk: 780 KB (798,720 bytes)
[Size on Disk 14 KB larger, due to cluster slack]

Note that the average slack per file is half the 4KB cluster size.
(14KB / 7 files = 2KB per file)

See also my other 2 replies in this thread.

(Triple-click twice, to smile and be nice.

FWIW. --Richard

 

[Richard]

[see bottom replies]

The difference in reported occupied space most likely is because the
second method is not counting hidden and system files (which could well
account for 17 GB).

If you are interested in determining what is taking up space, download
JDiskReport: http://www.jgoodies.com/freeware/jdiskreport/

Note than one place you likely can save some space is System Restore. By
default, System Restore uses 12% of the partition size. For your C:\
partition, which is about 227 GB, SR will be taking up over 27 GB. You
should change this to about 1 GB. See
http://bertk.mvps.org/html/diskspace.html

Hi "Lem",

On my 234 GB C-drive, the System Restore had 28 GB allowed space. After
changing the security of my System Volume Information folder so I could view
the files, I found out that the maximum 90 days worth of restore points took
up only about 1.7 GB disk space. Therefore 2 GB reserved space would be
plenty unless I was going to install a lot of programs and needed to
manually set restore points before each of them. (Someone in another thread
mentioned problems with installing a driver, and after numerous attempts to
install, setting numerous restore points, the reserved space was exceeded
and he couldn't go back to a restore point prior to the first driver install
attempt.) Also, as the number of installed programs on the computer grows,
the size of the registry grows, and therefore the size of restore point
information grows, and would need more space. I think a minimum 2 GB space
provides a better "set it and forget it" safety net.

:
If you are using your D:\ partition for data, you should turn off SR for
that partition.

I agree. System Restore only needs to monitor the system partition.

:
You can also limit the size of your browser cache (aka Temporary Internet
Files for IE). IIRC, IE defaults to reserving 10% of your partition. You
can do perfectly fine with a 50 MB cache.

I respectfully disagree for a number of reasons. Even with my slow dialup
connection, I manage to accumulate about 20 MB TIF (Temporary Internet
Files) per week. People with fast broadband connections could easily exceed
a 50 MB cache size in a day or so. The problem I see, is that when the cache
limit is reached, the computer has to spend extra time as the older files
are FIFO'd to make space for the new files coming in. Deleting files can
cause fragmented free space. Also, other Windows programs besides IE use
TIF, for instance, html Help topics. The main advantage of storing files in
TIF is for quicker viewing. The graphics and other common files used by a
series of web pages only need to be downloaded once, and then only the HTM
files for the other pages need to be loaded, which re-use the previously
downloaded common files. If the files are pushed out by newer files or
otherwise deleted, then they have to be downloaded again. (And people wonder
why their Home Page takes so long to load after they clear out Temporary
Internet Files to supposedly "speed up" their access time.

Therefore, my view is that TIF needs to be large enough to contain all web
pages that get re-visited regularly, as well as extra space for all the
"impulse" clicking on new site links, for at least a month. With my slow
connection, I could do "perfectly fine" for a month with a 1024 MB cache.

(But of course, to each his own, and whatever works...

FWIW. --Richard