Simple Way To Watch Over Kids On The Internet ? ? ?

[Rhonda Lea Kirk]

Rhonda Lea Kirk says...

Leythos wrote:
[snip everything}
Dude, do you always make off-center interpretations of what people
write? Or am I special?

I don't have a clue as to what you mean. My comments were direct,
completely on topic, and accurate.

Okay. I see now. The sincerity is obvious, and you don't have a clue
about the flaws in your arguments.

Maybe you could explain what you mean?

Well, no. It would be a waste of time for both of us, and we'd never get
anywhere. Been there, done that, still grinding my teeth. It would be
like...someone here trying to teach me to build my own computer. I don't
have the necessary background, just like you don't have the background
to see the flaws in what you wrote.

I thought you were just an a$$hole. My mistake, and I apologize, and I
won't make it again. I'll disagree with you when I disagree, if we get
off onto another one of these side conversations, but instead of what I
did this time, I'll try in the future to understand what you really
mean, not what you write.

Again, I apologize for the approach, but, for the record, I continue to
disagree with your approach to childrearing.

rl

 

[Leythos]

Again, I apologize for the approach, but, for the record, I continue to
disagree with your approach to childrearing.

It's easy to misunderstand either side in Usenet, or email even, as each
side writes what they think the other side will understand.

I wasn't trying to suggest that you need to agree with me, I don't
actually care if you or anyone agrees with me when it comes to kids.
I've seen many kids from a varied group of backgrounds, trusted, iron-
fist, half-half, trusted but monitored.... Some exceptional kids don't
require any additional help, they get the right idea and never break
from it. I've also seen what we thought were good kids go wrong for no
reason we could find, and the ones that no one was watching/monitoring
often got into more trouble than those who had parents that didn't
actively monitor their kids.

To me, it's simple, this is my home, my kids, and I'm responsible to
bring them up as productive, good, caring, citizens that can function in
the community. In order to do that I can't just "assume" that they are
following our teachings at all times, we check on them and ensure that
our assumptions are valid.

As an example, the little kids are http session filtered so that they
can't reach 13 of 14 categories of web content and can't download any
files, the older kids are filtered on 7 of 14, the adults are not
filtered. All users are monitored at the firewall and all connections
are logged in/out. The logs are available in read-only mode to anyone in
the house at any time from any workstation.

 

[Rick Brandt]

I'm going to make this the last post. You MVP's out there that have more
clout that people like me with Microsoft. You should go to Bill G and say;
You can become the Good Guy of The World. Just get rid of the Delete
Button in IE (for History), and make the History folder password lockable,
and every parent will make Bill their God Father to their children.

No cost, no peaking over their shoulder, no having to put the computer out
in an open space, no nothing. Again, no software is bulletproof. If a parent
buys your $100 item, they are likely to get passive and never check their
kids,
thinking the software is blocking everything. Not true. Parents need to
check.
And it should be simple and free.

Just check the History folder 2 or 3 times a week and cut the kid off if he
goes to a bad place. This is what I did with my son from the age of 8 to 18.
After that I stopped checking because he went off to college.
Guess what, he never went to bad places once he knew I could check up on
him and he knew I was doing it. That's what parents need to do.

It takes a couple minutes to install Opera or Firefox or some other browser that
doesn't use that history folder. Locking IE's would accomplish nothing.

 

[Alias]

Again, I apologize for the approach, but, for the record, I continue to
disagree with your approach to childrearing.

rl

If you think that's bad, you should hear what he thinks about politics.

Alias

 

[Rhonda Lea Kirk]

If you think that's bad, you should hear what he thinks about
politics.

I suppose if I hang around long enough, I'll find out, eh?

As far as I'm concerned, ones "right to swing ends at other guy's nose."
Any political theory that fails to take that into account--or that feels
compelled to embellish--is a waste of time. I would like the world a lot
better if we could all let go of the notion that we have the right to
tell others how to live.

Of course, under that theory, most, if not all, of the currently
established political structures would collapse. IMO, the sole role of
government is to collect just enough in taxes to build infrastructure.

(I'm a pagan myself, but I do believe that it is the right and
obligation of the churches (and individuals) to be charitable and to
take care of those who are down on their luck. With the more personal
approach, institutionalized poverty goes down the tubes.)

....in other words, the rules I apply to childrearing are no different
than those I apply to the adult children who play at running the
world...

How do you think that will play? <grin>

rl

 

[Alias]

I suppose if I hang around long enough, I'll find out, eh?

As far as I'm concerned, ones "right to swing ends at other guy's nose."
Any political theory that fails to take that into account--or that feels
compelled to embellish--is a waste of time. I would like the world a lot
better if we could all let go of the notion that we have the right to
tell others how to live.

Of course, under that theory, most, if not all, of the currently
established political structures would collapse. IMO, the sole role of
government is to collect just enough in taxes to build infrastructure.

(I'm a pagan myself, but I do believe that it is the right and
obligation of the churches (and individuals) to be charitable and to
take care of those who are down on their luck. With the more personal
approach, institutionalized poverty goes down the tubes.)

...in other words, the rules I apply to childrearing are no different
than those I apply to the adult children who play at running the
world...

How do you think that will play? <grin>

rl

Leythos voted for Bush and thinks that Bush is doing a great job. Does
that answer your question?

Alias

 

[Rhonda Lea Kirk]

Leythos voted for Bush and thinks that Bush is doing a great job. Does
that answer your question?

I'd probably feel that way too, if we'd gotten out of Iraq as quickly as
we got in. As it is, one member of the community with which I identify
myself has died, another has lost his leg, and many of the rest are
permanently scarred in one way or another. I take that very personally

If one is going to do a job, one should do it and get it done.

I heard recently that Dubya suffers from Graves Disease. As someone with
an autoimmune thyroid condition of my own, I can promise you that anyone
with an untreated impaired thyroid is *not* in his right mind, and he is
incapable of making considered and coherent decisions.

By definition, he is not doing a good job. He can't. His judgment is
totally out of whack.

Besides which, he's altogether too paternalistic for my taste.

rl

 

[mamamia]

It would be best to become proactive and install a
good Internet Security program with parental
controls.

Example:
http://www.symantec.com/home-homeoffice/products/overview.jsp?pcid=is&pvid=nis2006

Carey, it's bad enough you keep telling people to buy new retail copies
of Windows when they really don't need to waste their money, but now you
are recommending sucky Symantec products? Puh-lease!

 

[capitan]

Not every parent.

Just the control freaks.

rl

You don't understand. Some kids don't give you the chance to respect
their privacy! I have a 15 yr old who will constantly sneak onto any
internet connected computer to access inappropiate material (from home,
school, library, grandparent's house, sneak into his old school to surf)
and has been doing this for many years. Many times over the years, we
try to trust him, try to believe his word when he says he will stop, but
always it is lip service. Now we don't trust software to guard him, he
is only allowed on to do homework/check email when one of us is there to
watch his every move online. We had to learn the hard way.

I think if your kid proves theirself to be trustable (you only find this
out by checking on their every move in the begining), then that's fine,
you can trust them until they prove otherwise. In my eyes, they need to
prove it over and over, They need to learn that respect and trust is
earned, not just given.

 

[Rhonda Lea Kirk]

In my eyes, they need to prove it over and over,
They need to learn that respect and trust is earned,
not just given.

It works both ways. And kids learn by example, no more, no less.

A parent who has earned the respect and trust of his children doesn't
need to resort to cat and mouse games.

rl

 

[Leythos]

It works both ways. And kids learn by example, no more, no less.

A parent who has earned the respect and trust of his children doesn't
need to resort to cat and mouse games.

And without checking on your kids you really don't know what they are
doing or capable of doing.... If you trust your kids without reason to
trust them, without some proof they can be trusted, then you are one of
the reasons we have problem kids. Kids make mistakes, it's up to you to
teach them about the mistakes so that they learn from them - not all
GOOD kids will come to their parents when they make a mistake.

 

[Alias]

And without checking on your kids you really don't know what they are
doing or capable of doing.... If you trust your kids without reason to
trust them, without some proof they can be trusted, then you are one of
the reasons we have problem kids. Kids make mistakes, it's up to you to
teach them about the mistakes so that they learn from them - not all
GOOD kids will come to their parents when they make a mistake.

What happened? Did you catch your kid installing XP on two computers or
installing an pirated XP?

Heh.

Alias

 

[Rhonda Lea Kirk]

And without checking on your kids you really don't know what they are
doing or capable of doing.... If you trust your kids without reason to
trust them, without some proof they can be trusted, then you are one
of the reasons we have problem kids. Kids make mistakes, it's up to
you to teach them about the mistakes so that they learn from them -
not all GOOD kids will come to their parents when they make a mistake.

I don't have a problem kid. And I don't have to defend the way I reared
her, because she's a functioning adult. I will note, however, that
something really bad happened to her a few years ago--not her fault--and
she survived it, largely as a result of the way she was taught to see
the world.

But you didn't *hear* what I'm saying here.

Children who are fearful of their parents hide as much as they can.

Children who do not trust and respect their parents do what they feel
like without regard for the consequences.

Children who trust and respect their parents because their parents
taught them trust and respect by example (by trusting and respecting
them) do not need to be checked on because they will be forthcoming
about their activities.

There are some kids who are born sociopaths. Then it doesn't matter what
kind of parent you are, because they're born with something (empathy)
missing, and you can't do a damn thing about it.

But for the rest, the above does work, and they'll be much healthier for
it.

OTOH, some parents can't deal with it when their kids end up on a sex
site and come to them and say "Mom, what's BDSM?" And that's where the
problem arises.

Back when my grandmother was a girl--she's 99 right now--children were
not shielded from the realities of life. The didn't see live sex between
humans on the internet, they saw it between the animals on the farm.
They didn't need rotten.com, because when someone had a bad accident and
they brought him home broken and bleeding to wait for the doctor (and
most likely, to die), the kids saw that too.

But today, we let 11-year olds dress up like hookers on the one hand and
on the other, we try to protect their "innocence."

Innocent? Children? We need to believe that, but it flies in the face of
all known fact. They are ignorant of some things--but they have to learn
those things sooner or later. But from birth, they are not ignorant of
sexuality, they are not ignorant of cruelty...kids are born with a lot
more knowledge than we seem to give them credit for

The only way to rear a child is to feed her the bites of reality for
which she is ready as you go along. And if you do that, and if you talk
to her and if you give her guidance and offer your best judgment about
the morality involved, you'll find that you will have instilled your own
core values without even trying.

But hey, rear your kids your own way. The human race will survive.

rl

 

[Leythos]

What happened? Did you catch your kid installing XP on two computers or
installing an pirated XP?

Heh.

Nah, actually, all my kids have full MSDN Universal licenses and also
have dedicated Fedora Core 5 machines for their personal use.

 

[Rhonda Lea Kirk]

What happened? Did you catch your kid installing XP on two computers
or installing an pirated XP?

Heh.

<keyboard!>

Damn. I was eating ravioli. I really oughta know better.

<still laughing>

rl

 

[Leythos]

The only way to rear a child is to feed her the bites of reality for
which she is ready as you go along. And if you do that, and if you talk
to her and if you give her guidance and offer your best judgment about
the morality involved, you'll find that you will have instilled your own
core values without even trying.

But hey, rear your kids your own way. The human race will survive.

While I agree that you can tech you kids to be good and that they will
mostly be good, and you can tech your kids to trust you, it's just not
the case with all kids.

We started here was the blanket statement that you need to trust your
kids and all will be good and well, but that's just not the case with
many kids, as shown in the news every night.

I would love to think that just showing trust and respect and teaching
ethics and values to kids would be all that's needed, but, and you can't
deny it, it's not going to work with all kids and all parents.

In the case of people entering this group to ask for help with their
kids surfing habits, it's already too late to tell them to just Trust
their kids or to tell them to just Talk to their kids - the damage is
already done. While you can work to bring the kids back, you have to
keep checking to make sure there is real progress, you can't just hope
there is real progress.

If the parent didn't have a kid with a problem that was already beyond
the trust stage, they would not have posted here.

So, you can posture that all a parent has to do is raise their kids
right and all will be grand, but the simple fact is that it doesn't
always happen the way it should or the way we want it to - people asking
for help don't need someone telling them they just needed to parent
better and it would not have happened - they need additional tools to
help change the direction things are going, and that requires more than
hugs and talking most times.

 

[Rhonda Lea Kirk]

Leythos wrote:

The other day I was looking at the website of one of the MVPs here, and
I took note of the fact that he was a Hugh Prather fan (although he
didn't not mention my favorite book: /I Touch the Earth, the Earth
Touches Me/).

Anyway, in reading Prather lo those many years ago (about 30 now), I
came across an interesting idea. I believe it is the Hopis who say "the
child that I live with" rather than "my child."

Now the other idea that goes hand in hand with this, I either got from
Heinlein or...I'm not sure who, actually...is this: our children do not
belong to us. We are the vehicles for their existence and it is our job
to shape them (to some extent), but after that, all we can do is launch
them and hope they land well.

At the moment, Leythos, we live in a very paternalist, irresponsible
society. I see that mostly as a failure of good parenting, because it is
the attitudes we learn at our parents' knees that stay with us, no
matter how much we pretend to reject them. It isn't what we tell our
children and it isn't what we punish our children for, but what our
children see *us* do that determines how they will behave.

You and I have rupture, because I believe the above with all my heart,
and it fits with everything I have seen and everything I know about
human psychology. It is not what we *do* to our children but what our
children see us do that forms their character. Kids have inborn logic,
and they know when things don't make sense. They understand all too well
"do as I say and not as I do." "Because I said so..." is not a good
reason, and kids understand that instinctively. Worse yet, such
attitudes foster a culture of abuse which follows us into adulthood. We
become control freaks as a reaction against being overcontrolled in an
environment where all privilege belongs to the powerful (i.e., parents).

As I said, rear your children as you wish. I've already done my parental
duty (well, okay, I'm still doing it, because in some ways, it never
ends), and I no longer have to worry about my impact on tender young
minds.

But I will tell you one thing. It wasn't inappropriate places on the
'net that got my daughter into that really bad situation I mentioned, it
was an online chat with a kid she'd known since grammar school.

Maybe you should just cut your kids off completely. Safer that way. (And
down the slippery slope I go. <grin>)

rl

 

[Guest]

I was looking to block My Space .com also but too afraid to ask. This
thread has gone way off from answering a Windows XP question. I'm a Law
Enforcement Officer. I won't say where but have been doing it 23 years.
Parents are told to put their computers in a public area of the house to
restrict internet access to kids. They are also told to filter their
childrens internet access through their IP provider or software. I have been
asked to do interviews by news people in the past regarding children and
their use of the internet as a citizen, not my job. The first time was after
a local boy e-mailed plans to a girl about bombing their middle school.
Parents should know what their kids are doing. I trust mine but do spot
check them very now and then to make sure they are where they say they are
going or with who they said they would be with. This is without their
knowledge. I have caught many decent kids doing bad things and know all of
their tricks. I have met many parents who trusted their kids too much and
paid the ultimate price. Their children are alive and they will have to
live with this the rest of their lives.

The law allows parents to do many things and expects the parents to raise
their children, not the schools, police or courts. If a parent mentally or
physically abuses their children they will be disciplined by the state. As I
said on TV children do not have a right to privacy on their computer and they
should be prepared for when they work one day, since they will not have
privacy on their computer at their employer. Please don't bash a man for
wanting to make sure his children are staying safe. That's all I have to say
about that.

 

[Guest]

--
In the quest for knowledge.

I was looking to block My Space .com also but too afraid to ask. This
thread has gone way off from answering a Windows XP question. I'm a Law
Enforcement Officer. I won't say where but have been doing it 23 years.
Parents are told to put their computers in a public area of the house to
restrict internet access to kids. They are also told to filter their
childrens internet access through their IP provider or software. I have been
asked to do interviews by news people in the past regarding children and
their use of the internet as a citizen, not my job. The first time was after
a local boy e-mailed plans to a girl about bombing their middle school.
Parents should know what their kids are doing. I trust mine but do spot
check them very now and then to make sure they are where they say they are
going or with who they said they would be with. This is without their
knowledge. I have caught many decent kids doing bad things and know all of
their tricks. I have met many parents who trusted their kids too much and
paid the ultimate price. Their children are not alive and they will have to
live with this the rest of their lives.

The law allows parents to do many things and expects the parents to raise
their children, not the schools, police or courts. If a parent mentally or
physically abuses their children they will be disciplined by the state. As I
said on TV children do not have a right to privacy on their computer and they
should be prepared for when they work one day, since they will not have
privacy on their computer at their employer. Please don't bash a man for
wanting to make sure his children are staying safe. That's all I have to say
about that.

 

[Rhonda Lea Kirk]

I was looking to block My Space .com also but too afraid to ask.

Why not just tell your kids you want them to stay off MySpace?

This thread has gone way off from answering a Windows XP question.
I'm a Law Enforcement Officer. I won't say where but have been doing
it 23 years. Parents are told to put their computers in a public area
of the house to restrict internet access to kids. They are also told
to filter their childrens internet access through their IP provider
or software. I have been asked to do interviews by news people in
the past regarding children and their use of the internet as a
citizen, not my job. The first time was after a local boy e-mailed
plans to a girl about bombing their middle school. Parents should
know what their kids are doing. I trust mine but do spot check them

Do you think the sort of parents who have reared a child who is capable
of coming up with such a plot are going to be checking up on his
internet usage?

That's the problem. People who have no relationship with their children
aren't going to be protecting society from those children, because
they're not even protecting their children.

My daughter was stalked on AOL by a 56-year old man who pretended to be
an 18-year old boy. At first she believed him...but she told me about it
anyway (just as she tells me about most things), and we did some
fact-checking (I did the complicated stuff alone, and we did the easy
stuff together), and we learned what a schlub he was.

Law enforcement DID NOT HELP ME, although I did ask for help. But
because my daughter was 16 years old, she was beyond the point of being
"protected." So the bastard got away with the harm he caused up to the
point we outed him, and he's probably now off after some other teenager.

very now and then to make sure they are where they say they are going
or with who they said they would be with. This is without their
knowledge. I have caught many decent kids doing bad things and know
all of their tricks. I have met many parents who trusted their kids
too much and paid the ultimate price. Their children are alive and
they will have to live with this the rest of their lives.

Short of having given birth to a sociopath (and some people do), a
parent who fosters a good relationship with his child from birth does
not need to worry about what his kid is doing, because his kid will tell
him.

Unfortunately, there are few parents who do this, and when the shit hits
the fan, they are totally bewildered as to why "Johnny went wrong."

The law allows parents to do many things and expects the parents to
raise their children, not the schools, police or courts. If a parent
mentally or physically abuses their children they will be disciplined
by the state. As I said on TV children do not have a right to

And the schools foster an attitude in kids that their parents cannot
punish them at all.

When my daughter was 12, she missed the bus for 10 days in a row. I was
incensed on the 11th day. As I drove her to school, I ranted. When she
was O-D with me at school--standing outside the car with the door open,
brushing her hair while I told her to go inside--I simply pushed her
stuff off the seat onto the sidewalk and left. I probably should have
given more consideration to the fact that the raging hormone years had
begun, but two weeks of driving her to school had frayed my temper. (She
hated school...with good reason.)

Apparently, she was upset, and when asked by her teacher what was wrong,
she told the story.

The New Jersey Division of Family Services showed up at my door two
hours later. Why?

Well, I told the social worker the whole story, and she said, "Well,
that's not why I'm here." <total bewilderment> "Okay, why are you here?"
"Because your daughter thinks you're going to kill her."

I don't know about you, but my mother said that to me all the time, and
I was never in fear of my life. "If you track on this floor, I'm going
to kill you." "If you get your clothes dirty before church, I'm going to
kill you."

"If you miss the school bus again, I'm going to kill you."

What was it Bill Cosby used to say? "I brought you into this world and I
can take you right back out again."

Child abuse on national TV. Officer, arrest that man.

My daughter didn't know that repeating the story verbatim was going to
cause such a ruckus, and the ruckus scared her to death.

It's a lot of power to hand to any kid, however--the idea that if they
say certain words, they can get their parents in a lot of trouble.

I'm not the only parent with a story like this, but my story ended with
a whimper, not a bang. (Well, it was pretty stupid.)

So please don't tell me what the law allows or expects, because it is
being subverted and perverted every single day in our schools.

privacy on their computer and they should be prepared for when they
work one day, since they will not have privacy on their computer at
their employer. Please don't bash a man for wanting to make sure his
children are staying safe. That's all I have to say about that.

Checking up on your kids won't keep them safe. It will only make them
learn to hide things because they fear what you will do when you know.

Making them believe down deep that no matter what they do, you will love
them makes them a lot more forthcoming about their activities. And then,
one night when they're out and everyone is drunk, instead of ending up a
highway statistic, they'll call you for a ride home, secure in the
knowledge that they're not going to be berated and grounded a hundred
years for experimenting with alcohol, but lauded for making the right
choice to call at 1 am.

rl