Several questions

[Tony]

Xp(home)_SP2

When trying to minimize Windows, I compressed
ServicePackFiles, burned the original to CD then deleted it
from the hard disc. sfc /scannow was then run,which brought
up the expected demand for the XP Pro disc.
Rebooted and added 'zip' to the SourcePath key. No joy.
Changed the key, unzipped and repeated, whereupon I was
asked for the Home CD. Inserted my slipstreamed version,
which was rejected, so had to use the original.

So far so good but, when I looked at the unzipped
ServicePackFiles it had doubled in size! It contained i386
and a second folder, ServicePackFiles, (empty), but still
occupying 367MB. Deleted this and carried on.
Then compressed the folder using NTFS compression, but the
only change I can see is that the filename is blue, while
the contents occupy the same amount of disc space as before.

Questions:-
1) Does the rejection of the slipstreamed disc mean that
it is corrupt, or is it only useable for reinstallation?
How can I test - without reinstallig <g>?
2) Why was the unzipped version twice the size of the
original?
3) Why is there no reduction in size after NTFS compression?

More questions:
4)Are there any folders in Windows which can, safely, be
deleted or permanently compressed, yet,if compressed,
accessed when needed, seamlessly? I know that the
installation backups,excluding the first two folders in Windows,
can be deleted if there are no problems with updates, but
Help\Tours, Resources\Themes,SoftwareDistribution, InternetLogs
and DownloadedInstallations look likely candidates for
compression, particularly the last because I have the
original setup programmes. NTFS compression seemed the way
to go but, if there is no space saving, pointless.

5)Internetlogs contains an unreadable 20 MB text file
called tvDebug.txt. QuickView shows that it contains thousands
of mainly blank pages with the odd heiroglyphic on just a few
of them. Is this recording every connection I've made since I
bought the PC and, if so, could it be renamed BAK, a new file
created, then the bak file deleted?

6)While examining the ServicePackSourcePath, in registry,
I noticed a reference to ServicePackCache, but was unable
to locate it in ServicePackFiles. Is this of any significance?

Unrelated to any of the foregoing:-
7) Why - if it's true - is it more efficient to have the
pagefile on a non active partition, away from the OS?

TIA for all advice and information.


Tony.

 

[Galen]

In Tony <[email protected]> had this to say:

My reply is mixed in with your sent message:

1) Does the rejection of the slipstreamed disc mean that
it is corrupt, or is it only useable for reinstallation?
How can I test - without reinstallig <g>?

Install it on a second partition. If it works good. Delete the partition and
clean up the boot.ini file.

2) Why was the unzipped version twice the size of the
original?

Compression is like that. It makes stuff smaller. When you uncompress it
it's much larger than it's compressed form.

3) Why is there no reduction in size after NTFS compression?

Dunno but compressing system files is generally a bad idea. See the bottom
of this for a bit of GOOD information though this really isn't bad
information I guess, it just isn't the answer you were looking for.

4)Are there any folders in Windows which can, safely, be
deleted or permanently compressed, yet,if compressed,
accessed when needed, seamlessly? I know that the
installation backups,excluding the first two folders in Windows,
can be deleted if there are no problems with updates, but
Help\Tours, Resources\Themes,SoftwareDistribution, InternetLogs
and DownloadedInstallations look likely candidates for
compression, particularly the last because I have the
original setup programmes. NTFS compression seemed the way
to go but, if there is no space saving, pointless.

Don't use the compression. It's just not worth it. We seldom hear anything
good about it. I don't use it. I don't have problems. Could just be

5)Internetlogs contains an unreadable 20 MB text file
called tvDebug.txt. QuickView shows that it contains thousands
of mainly blank pages with the odd heiroglyphic on just a few
of them. Is this recording every connection I've made since I
bought the PC and, if so, could it be renamed BAK, a new file
created, then the bak file deleted?

What's Internetlogs and how do I get one? Is this in your temp internet
files (aka TIF?) You can kill 'em all and if they're required you'll grow
new ones automatically. You can clean lots of stuff... See the bottom for
the good information...

6)While examining the ServicePackSourcePath, in registry,
I noticed a reference to ServicePackCache, but was unable
to locate it in ServicePackFiles. Is this of any significance?

Is it working? If it's not malfunctioning the saying goes tweak it but truly
that's really not required any longer. Don't forget to see the bottom where
the actually interesting stuff might be...

Unrelated to any of the foregoing:-
7) Why - if it's true - is it more efficient to have the
pagefile on a non active partition, away from the OS?

Yes. Sort of... Remember me telling you about the bottom? I hope so because
this is the bottom.

Okay... Putting the page file over on (I'll assume you know how to do this)
an inactive partition is really ONLY going to benefit you if that is
actually on a separate disk. It would benefit you even more on a separate
IDE controller but that's a whole other bowl of apples or some other
assorted fruit. Hear me out...

I don't know exactly why you're asking all these questions but the
implication is, to me, that you're suffering from disk drive space crunch
syndrome for one reason or another. Perhaps it's due to being an old PC user
or due to a small drive. Either way you need a 12 step program or the like.
Maybe something shocking will snap you out of it? I don't know... I'm an old
PC user too and to be honest I still sometimes reach the point where I
actually start to think about drive space. I've so many GB of memory both in
the case and with the two external drives hooked up to this one that it's
really a moot point. I'm probably going to run out of drive letters before I
run out of space. It's reached the point where after I've copied a VHS tape
to the drive to burn to DVD (we're in the process of backing up the VHS
collection) that I don't even bother to delete the old files until I get
bored and do my regular cleaning.

I was reading in Uncle Henry's this week, that's a local swap/trade magazine
that actually has a computer section, and saw 160 GB unopened Maxtor drives
for $89 USD... The price of storage is sooooo dirt cheap these days that you
really should get another drive or, chances are, have plenty of space
already. Even on a very limited budget you could easily save up the money
for a second drive or, alternatively, wait until college lets out in your
local community and then help some of the students move and you'll see (I'm
not kidding about this, I have a buddy who does this every year and you'd be
amazed what he gets) them throwing year old PCs out. I kid you not. He's
reached the point where he's picky now and won't pick up anything that
appears to be less than a PIII. The college he does this at isn't even a
very good one, it's just a local teacher college that's public and anyone
who's able to count to ten and can't get into a real school is welcome to
attend so the kids there aren't really very rich. Either way get a drive
from somewhere, they're cheap and this is the ultimate solution to your
problems. From there you can partition the drive in all sorts of ways, you
can make a large swap file pagefile if you want, and you can stop fretting
about the space.

In the meantime there's some good files over at www.snapfiles.com (look in
the freeware section) that you can use to automatically (or at least more
quickly) remove the temp files and the like. This will help you keep your
drive space down to a dull roar until you've come across another drive that
you can use. www.pricewatch.com has some very inexpensive dealers there and
there's other places like www.ebay.com where you might be able to do even
better though I'm not sure that I'd use that as my first solution. Once in a
while it's beneficial to take the time to copy all of your downloaded
applications and burn them to CD or DVD to make more space. That's on my
list of things to do with a drive in this box right now so that I can get
Server 2k3 installed on it and up and running so that it's dual boot.

One of the BEST reasons for adding a slave drive is that you can keep things
on it. Yes, really. You can actually keep things there and never have to
worry about the space or the like. I like to keep a bunch of the
applications that I know I'm going to need or want to re-install. I like to
download programs directly to a folder on that drive as well. Then, if my OS
should fail and the backup ghost images not work, I still have all of my
applications and registration information right there and handy so that I'm
able to get it quickly without having to root through a bunch of CDs or
DVDs. Though I typically burn the larger applications to DVD so that I don't
take up too much space. On top of this you can always install a second OS on
a partition on that drive, have a dual boot system, and if the first one
fails you'll be able to use the second OS to get into the drive and get any
information that you hadn't backed up already.

Anyhow, I hope that you get this all figured out. Drive space is really dirt
cheap now and it's well worth your interest to simply get larger drives or
an additional drive if space is a concern. Removing and compressing system
files might save you some space but the risk of instability is simply not
something that I can say justifies the extra GB of space or so that you
might save.

Galen
--

"My mind rebels at stagnation. Give me problems, give me work, give me
the most abstruse cryptogram or the most intricate analysis, and I am
in my own proper atmosphere. I can dispense then with artificial
stimulants. But I abhor the dull routine of existence. I crave for
mental exaltation." -- Sherlock Holmes

 

[bumtracks]

You may be prompted to insert a Windows XP Professional CD when you run the
System File Checker tool in Windows XP Home Edition
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;897128

 

[Tony]

Thanks for all the info, Galen, and 'here here' [or is it 'hear
hear'?]to the Sherlock quote; it's why I'm performing this exercise.

Not short of space - disc less than half full - just curious to know
how much can be stripped out without causing total collapse, although,
of course. I've backed up and created a restore point first.

Solved the slipstreamed disc problem. Just needed a couple of registry
tweaks -
took hours to find them though. Used Sherlock's dictum 'When you have
eliminated the impossible, whatever remains must be the truth.'

Probably addressed these queries to the wrong group, as I'm only
interested in the *why* rather than the *how*. Conventional wisdom
says put the swapfile on a separate partition, but I've not seen
anyone explain why. My own surmise is that
when on the OS partition it 'floats', changing size and position, so
windows has to 'search' [don't you hate anthropomorphic words applied
to a PC?] for it whereas, in a fixed location it 'knows' and can head
straight there. But that's pure speculation on my part.

I understand why decompression often produces a larger file than the
original but have never experienced anything like a doubling.

A batch file, incorporating windows 'sageset' and sagerun, together
with items of my choosing, keeps my disc clean and includes clearing
Internet Logs, but this ginormous file lies there like a malevolent
toad. I'm going to squash it and see what happens!

Regards.

Tony.

 

[Galen]

In Tony <[email protected]> had this to say:

My reply is at the bottom of your sent message:

Probably addressed these queries to the wrong group, as I'm only
interested in the *why* rather than the *how*. Conventional wisdom
says put the swapfile on a separate partition, but I've not seen
anyone explain why. My own surmise is that
when on the OS partition it 'floats', changing size and position, so
windows has to 'search' [don't you hate anthropomorphic words applied
to a PC?] for it whereas, in a fixed location it 'knows' and can head
straight there. But that's pure speculation on my part.

Why? Because the drive can only be accessed at a certain speed, a limited
speed. Putting the pagefile on a separate drive enables the drive that
contains the data to operate more quickly as the pagefile is being accessed
from a separate drive and the pagefile is accessed more frequently that the
disk so you'd want it on the faster drive if at all possible. Thus is is
faster because instead of the data transer slowing while accessing BOTH the
data and the pagefile it's able to grab them both from different drives at
the same time.

Putting the pagefile on a separate partition on the same drive isn't going
to do much other than keep the drive uncluttered. Deleting the pagefile is
just going to result in it being rebuilt. Turning off the page file, even
with a full 4 GB of RAM, is still not a great idea as some applications
"need" the pagefile, heck - at least one even creates it's own... It's a
good idea to set the max page file to 1 1/5 times the RAM you have and
putting it on another drive on a separate controller. That being said I'm
not too sure where "they" get the math that says that 1 1/5 times the RAM is
good...

Another 'tweak' is to set the pagefile at the same max and minimum values
thus eliminating the CPU cycles that would be used by Windows to determine
the usage. I've no proof that there's any benefit in that on today's
computers. The few cycles it uses on today's CPUs are likely to be
nanoseconds in length and probably not even noticed by even the most picky
among us.

Galen
--

"My mind rebels at stagnation. Give me problems, give me work, give me
the most abstruse cryptogram or the most intricate analysis, and I am
in my own proper atmosphere. I can dispense then with artificial
stimulants. But I abhor the dull routine of existence. I crave for
mental exaltation." -- Sherlock Holmes

 

[tonybocymru]

Galen,

Thanks again, but not convinced. Accessing the information *at the same
time* as the request is made is too much like having two people yelling
simultaneously into opposite ears. There must be a time lag for any
processing to take place. Whatever the merits of having the swap on a
separate disc I cannot see much of an improvement over the head moving
a hundredth of a millimetre to access an adjacent partition for its
information. But I could be wrong - I often am <g>

Haven't got around to creating a truly separate partition yet,
contenting myself with having a single pagefile of about 1.5GB (I have
1 GB of RAM) on an adjacent drive not likely to be otherwise accessed
by the OS during its fulminations. But a brief and unsuccessful foray
into LINUX demonstrated some of the virtues of a separate partition
although, of course, that OS is nowhere near as bloated as Windows
anyway. Had I been prepared to splash out the cash for new compatible
modem and printer to fully explore it I suspect I would not be here
asking questions.

Tony.

 

[Galen]

In (e-mail address removed) <[email protected]> had this to say:

My reply is at the bottom of your sent message:

Galen,

Thanks again, but not convinced. Accessing the information *at the
same time* as the request is made is too much like having two people
yelling simultaneously into opposite ears. There must be a time lag
for any processing to take place. Whatever the merits of having the
swap on a separate disc I cannot see much of an improvement over the
head moving a hundredth of a millimetre to access an adjacent
partition for its information. But I could be wrong - I often am <g>

Haven't got around to creating a truly separate partition yet,
contenting myself with having a single pagefile of about 1.5GB (I have
1 GB of RAM) on an adjacent drive not likely to be otherwise accessed
by the OS during its fulminations. But a brief and unsuccessful foray
into LINUX demonstrated some of the virtues of a separate partition
although, of course, that OS is nowhere near as bloated as Windows
anyway. Had I been prepared to splash out the cash for new compatible
modem and printer to fully explore it I suspect I would not be here
asking questions.

Tony.

Each IDE channel is limited to a certain amount of bandwidth while the CPU
is capable of processing much more than what's coming from a single channel.
Thus it's not really much like yelling at the same time it's more like
someone IMing you when you're talking on the telephone. Great improvement?
No, not really, that's just the reasoning behind the tweak. I personally
don't bother with it though I do put it on it's own specially made partition
just to keep the root drive nice and tidy. I'd move the hiberfil.sys to that
drive if I could only figure out a way.

Galen
--

"My mind rebels at stagnation. Give me problems, give me work, give me
the most abstruse cryptogram or the most intricate analysis, and I am
in my own proper atmosphere. I can dispense then with artificial
stimulants. But I abhor the dull routine of existence. I crave for
mental exaltation." -- Sherlock Holmes