Selecting a DAT drive

M

Mike Tomlinson

Jonathan Sachs said:
IBM and HP appear to be the most popular brands of LTO drives, and
I've also seen drives from Dell, Seagate, and Quantum offered for
sale.

I think, but am not certain, that all LTO drives are made by one
manufacturer, and that after that it's just a matter of branding. The
LTO organisation is a collaboration of HP, IBM and Quantum.

http://www.lto-technology.com/

FWIW, the external tabletop drive I use is a Quantum.
Any comments on brands of LTO tape?

I was happy with the Fujifilm tapes used in our DLT drives, so have
continued to buy Fujifilm for our LTO-3 tapes, and have has no problems.
 
J

Jonathan Sachs

I bought an IBM Ultrium 1 drive and used it happily for about a month.
I am now having baffling problems.

I'll describe what is happening now. The history of the problem
differs only in details, and in some unrelated behavior that is not
consistent.

When problems first emerged early in October I consulted the user
forum on HP's web site. (The drive is an HP drive, apparently OEMed to
IBM.) I was advised to clean the drive and try again. I was also
advised that because the drive has IBM firmware I probably would not
be able to get further help on the HP site.

I got a cleaning tape and applied it, then tried to make a
differential backup of my data drive. It worked perfectly. I then
tried to overwrite the tape with a full backup. The drive rewound the
tape and Windows Backup displayed a "Please wait..." message, then
waited forever.

I killed Backup, restarted Windows, and tried again. This time Backup
said, "The requested media is not currently online...", even though
the tape was on line. I displayed the "Restore" tab, and it confirmed
that the tape was online, but when I tried to run a backup again I
just got a repeat of the "requested media is not currently online..."
message.

Nothing like this ever happened with a DAT drive, or with a DLT drive
during the months when I was trying to use one. It appears to me that
the drive is functioning, but Windows Backup has become completely
addled. I'm not sure what to try.
 
M

Michael Hawes

Jonathan Sachs said:
I bought an IBM Ultrium 1 drive and used it happily for about a month.
I am now having baffling problems.

I'll describe what is happening now. The history of the problem
differs only in details, and in some unrelated behavior that is not
consistent.

When problems first emerged early in October I consulted the user
forum on HP's web site. (The drive is an HP drive, apparently OEMed to
IBM.) I was advised to clean the drive and try again. I was also
advised that because the drive has IBM firmware I probably would not
be able to get further help on the HP site.

I got a cleaning tape and applied it, then tried to make a
differential backup of my data drive. It worked perfectly. I then
tried to overwrite the tape with a full backup. The drive rewound the
tape and Windows Backup displayed a "Please wait..." message, then
waited forever.

I killed Backup, restarted Windows, and tried again. This time Backup
said, "The requested media is not currently online...", even though
the tape was on line. I displayed the "Restore" tab, and it confirmed
that the tape was online, but when I tried to run a backup again I
just got a repeat of the "requested media is not currently online..."
message.

Nothing like this ever happened with a DAT drive, or with a DLT drive
during the months when I was trying to use one. It appears to me that
the drive is functioning, but Windows Backup has become completely
addled. I'm not sure what to try.

Try System Restore to before problem occured.
Mike.
 
J

Jonathan Sachs

Try System Restore to before problem occured.

I appreciate the suggestion, but I have to consider the fact that it
would leave me absolutely dependent on the integrity of one backup
tape. (I only got one full system backup with the new drive before I
started having problems.) It seems particularly hazardous because it
also depends upon a drive which, for whatever reason, is not working
correctly.

If your recommendation has a concrete technical basis, it's something
I will try to do (with great caution). If it's more along the lines
of "as long as something is wrong, try this and see if it helps," I
think it would be ill-advised.
 
M

Michael Hawes

Jonathan Sachs said:
I appreciate the suggestion, but I have to consider the fact that it
would leave me absolutely dependent on the integrity of one backup
tape. (I only got one full system backup with the new drive before I
started having problems.) It seems particularly hazardous because it
also depends upon a drive which, for whatever reason, is not working
correctly.

If your recommendation has a concrete technical basis, it's something
I will try to do (with great caution). If it's more along the lines
of "as long as something is wrong, try this and see if it helps," I
think it would be ill-advised.

What OS? I meant System Restore in XP, not restore from tape. The
problem you describe can be caused by problems in registry preventing the
backup software identifying the tape. Are you using NTBACKUP? You could try
uninstall and reinstall.
Mike.
 
J

Jonathan Sachs

What OS? I meant System Restore in XP, not restore from tape.

Thank you for clarifying that -- it makes more sense. I know of this
feature's existence, but I haven't used it before.

Perhaps you can help me by explaining how to get started. Windows
Help, in typical Microsoft fashion, seems to explain everything about
the feature in excruciating detail except how to invoke it. I found
instructions on Microsoft's website which say that step #1 is to
"Click Start, click Control Panel, click Performance and Maintenance,
and then click System." That would be fine except that there is no
Performance and Maintenance item on the Control Panel. (This is
Windows XP Professional with SP1.)
 
R

Rod Speed

Jonathan Sachs said:
Thank you for clarifying that -- it makes more sense. I know of this
feature's existence, but I haven't used it before.

Perhaps you can help me by explaining how to get started. Windows
Help, in typical Microsoft fashion, seems to explain everything about
the feature in excruciating detail except how to invoke it.

Yeah, could be stated more clearly. Its actually an entry
under the Pick a Task heading on the main help page.
I found instructions on Microsoft's website which say that step #1 is to
"Click Start, click Control Panel, click Performance and Maintenance,
and then click System." That would be fine except that there is no
Performance and Maintenance item on the Control Panel. (This is
Windows XP Professional with SP1.)

That's because you have chosen to use the classic view of the control panel.
Its there in the new format which you can switch to in the left box, category view.
 
J

Jonathan Sachs

Yeah, could be stated more clearly. Its actually an entry
under the Pick a Task heading on the main help page.

Thank you. I found it, and tried it, and was able to make a backup.
I'm not ready to let my breath out yet, because I have had the thing
work before and then go back to its prior wacky behavior. I need to
make few more backups over the next few days before I'll be ready to
say the problem is solved. But at least I can be confident that I'm
not dealing with a hardware failure.
That's because you have chosen to use the classic view of the control panel.
Its there in the new format which you can switch to in the left box, category view.

So it is. That's bizarre. I'd as soon expect to see different sets of
files in Explorer in list view and details view. But that's Microsoft,
I guess...
 
J

Jonathan Sachs

It's fortunate that I did not let my breath out, because things are
still not okay.

As I reported, I was able to make a successful full backup a few days
ago. When I tried to append a differential backup to it last night,
Windows Backup made the backup (apparently with success), then went
into an infinite wait while searching for the backup set to verify it.

I canceled Backup (I had to kill it with Task Manager), restarted it,
and tried to eject the tape. Backup did not complain, but the tape
remained in the drive. I tried several other approaches, each of
which led me back to Task Manager. Finally I could not start Backup
at all; when I double-clicked its icon, nothing happened. I switched
to Task Manager's Processes pane, and discovered that I had five
copies of Backup running. I killed all five and tried again, still
with no luck. Finally I got the tape to eject by holding down the
eject button on the drive. After I did this I restarted Backup and
found that it still thought the tape was in the drive.

A day has passed. I have rebooted a couple of times, and Backup still
thinks the tape is in the drive.

I'm baffled again. I don't even know whether this is hardware,
software, or some diabolical combination.
 
F

Folkert Rienstra

Jonathan Sachs said:
It's fortunate that I did not let my breath out, because things are
still not okay.

As I reported, I was able to make a successful full backup a few days
ago. When I tried to append a differential backup to it last night,
Windows Backup made the backup (apparently with success), then went
into an infinite wait while searching for the backup set to verify it.

I canceled Backup (I had to kill it with Task Manager), restarted it,
and tried to eject the tape. Backup did not complain, but the tape
remained in the drive. I tried several other approaches, each of
which led me back to Task Manager. Finally I could not start Backup
at all; when I double-clicked its icon, nothing happened. I switched
to Task Manager's Processes pane, and discovered that I had five
copies of Backup running. I killed all five and tried again, still
with no luck. Finally I got the tape to eject by holding down the
eject button on the drive. After I did this I restarted Backup and
found that it still thought the tape was in the drive.

What happens if you eject the tape from the drive rightclick context menu?
A day has passed. I have rebooted a couple of times, and Backup still
thinks the tape is in the drive.

Sounds like the OS is not notified by the drive of the ejection or it is
ignored by the OS.
My Windows acts like that (with CD/DVD) when auto insert notification
is disabled.
If I eject/load the CD from rightclick context though, Windows then
notices the change.
I'm baffled again. I don't even know whether this is hardware,
software, or some diabolical combination.

Not easy to check without a replacement drive.
 
J

Jonathan Sachs

Not easy to check without a replacement drive.

If that has to be the next step, it will have to wait several months.
I could not possibly afford to buy another drive now, even if I were
sure that the drive is the problem. I will have to get along with
what I have, or fall back to backing up on DVDs again.
 
A

Anna

Jonathan Sachs said:
If that has to be the next step, it will have to wait several months.
I could not possibly afford to buy another drive now, even if I were
sure that the drive is the problem. I will have to get along with
what I have, or fall back to backing up on DVDs again.

Jonathan:
Without resurrecting all that has gone before re this thread as it concerns
the problems you're having with your tape drive...

May I offer another suggestion?

If I understand your primary, if not exclusive interest, it is to establish
& maintain a comprehensive backup program of your system including the
operating system, all programs & applications, and your created data - in
short, *everything* that's on your day-to-day working HDD. A backup system
that will allow you to restore all that data simply & effectively.

If my understanding is correct, might you consider jettisoning your tape
drive paraphernalia and instead use a disk imaging program such as Acronis
True Image to meet your objective?

By using a disk imaging program such as the Acronis one you have your choice
of two basic backup strategies which you can undertake...
1. Creating a disk-to-disk clone.
2. Creating a disk image of your HDD.

Either process (together with the restoration process) is relatively simple
to undertake and most effective. True, there will be an additional expense
involved - the cost of the program around $50 (list, but probably cheaper
from the discount online vendors), and another internal or external (USB,
Firewire, or SATA) HDD that would be the recipient of the clone or available
for storing the disk image.

I recently posted (in the MS XP newsgroups) some step-by-step instructions
for using the Acronis program for backup & restoration. If you (or anyone)
is interested so indicate and I'll post them here.
Anna
 
J

Jonathan Sachs

What happens if you eject the tape from the drive rightclick context menu?

I missed this, but I should respond. As far as I know that menu
applies only to removable disks, e.g., CDs, memory cards. The tape
drive doesn't appear in the Windows Explorer folder list, and can't be
manipulated that way. Perhaps this was a mental slip of the tongue?
 
T

Timothy Daniels

"Anna" offerred:
I recently posted (in the MS XP newsgroups) some step-by-step
instructions for using the Acronis program for backup & restoration.
If you (or anyone) is interested so indicate and I'll post them here.
Anna


Post them! It would improve the signal-to-noise ratio in the newsgroup.
Put it in a new subject line and thread and fill in the Keywords section in
the headers to make it easiest to find in the Google archives.

*TimDaniels*
 
A

Anna

"Anna" offerred:


Timothy Daniels said:
Post them! It would improve the signal-to-noise ratio in the
newsgroup.
Put it in a new subject line and thread and fill in the Keywords section
in
the headers to make it easiest to find in the Google archives.

*TimDaniels*


Hi Tim:
Nice to (directly) hear from you again. I do read your posts (which I
invariably find both sensible & enlightening) when I come across them.

As I think you know from our past interchanges, we are long-time users of
disk imaging programs, particularly the Norton Ghost programs and more
specifically the Ghost 2003 version. (Coincidentally I just posted in the
microsoft.public.windowsxp. general newsgroup some step-by-step instructions
re using the Ghost 2003 program).

BTW, I know you to be a strong proponent of the Casper XP disk imaging
program. I take it you still are, yes?

Anyway, in view of all the favorable reviews it has garnered (both from the
professional reviewers as well as users ) we've been working over the past
year or so with the Acronis program. We've gotten to like that program more
& more, particularly with their versions 8 & 9. (They recently released a
version 10 which based upon our preliminary experience with that program we
haven't found it to be materially different from the previous versions in
terms of basic disk-to-disk cloning or creating/restoring disk images. It
includes a separate mail backup program which we haven't been particularly
thrilled with). The disk cloning/disk imaging programs have, in our
experience, proven to be most reliable and users seem to prefer using this
program to other disk imaging programs.

We prepared the following step-by-step instructions for using the Acronis
program in response to requests we received from local computer club members
with whom we have contact and also thought it might be of some help for our
customers who are contemplating installing this type of backup & restore
program.

So here it is...

Using the Acronis True Image program there are two different approaches one
can take to back up the entire contents of one's day-to-day working HDD,
i.e., the operating system, all programs & applications, and user-created
data - in short, *everything* that's on one's HDD...

1. Direct disk-to-disk cloning, or
2. Creating disk images

By using either of these strategies the user can restore his or her system
should their HDD become inoperable because of mechanical/electronic failure
of the disk or corruption of the system resulting in a dysfunctional
operating system.

In undertaking either of these two backup & recovery processes you're
dealing with two hard drives - the so-called source & destination disks -
the source disk being the HDD you're backing up and the destination disk
being the HDD that will be the recipient of the cloned contents of the
source disk or the recipient of the disk image you will be creating.

When using either process it's usually best for most users to use an
external HDD as the destination drive, i.e., the recipient of the cloned
contents of the source disk or the recipient of the created disk image. This
can be either a USB or Firewire or SATA external HDD. While another internal
HDD can also serve as the destination disk there's an additional element of
safety by using an external HDD since that drive will be ordinarily
disconnected from the system except during the disk cloning or recovery
process.

The following are step-by-step instructions for using the Acronis True Image
9 program to clone the contents of one HDD to an external HDD. (The steps
are essentially the same using the newer ATI 10 version):

1. With both hard drives (source & destination disks) connected, boot up.
Ensure that no other storage devices, e.g., flash drives, ZIP drives, etc.,
are connected. It's also probably a good idea to shut down any programs you
may have working in the background - including any anti-virus anti-spyware
programs - before undertaking this disk-to-disk cloning operation.

2. Access the Acronis True Image 9 program and under "Pick a Task", click
on "Clone Disk". (In the ATI 10 version click on "Manage Hard Disks" in the
"Pick a Tool" area and on the next screen click on "Clone Disk").

3. On the next "Welcome to the Disk Clone Wizard!" window, click Next.

4. On the next "Clone Mode" window select the Automatic option (it should
be the default option selected) and click Next.

5. On the next "Source Hard Disk" window, ensure that the correct source
HDD (the disk you're cloning from) has been selected (click to highlight).
Click Next.

6. On the next "Destination Hard Disk" window, ensure that the correct
destination HDD (the disk you're cloning to) has been selected (again, click
to highlight). Click Next.

7. On the next window, select the option "Delete partitions on the
destination hard disk". Understand that all data presently on the disk that
will be the recipient of the clone will be deleted prior to the disk cloning
operation. Click Next.

8. The next window will reflect the source and destination disks. Again,
confirm that the correct drives have been selected. Click Next.

9. On the next window click on the Proceed button. A message box will
display indicating that a reboot will be required to undertake the disk
cloning operation. Click Reboot.

10. The cloning operation will proceed during the reboot. With modern
components and a medium to high-powered processor, data transfer rate will
be somewhere in the range of about 450 MB/min to 800 MB/min when cloning to
a USB external HDD.

11. When the cloning operation has been completed, a message will appear
indicating the disk cloning process has been successful and instructs you to
shut down the computer by pressing any key. Do so and disconnect your USB
external HDD.

If, however, the destination drive has been another *internal* HDD, see the
Note below.

12. Note that the cloned contents now residing on the USB external HDD take
on the file system of the source drive. For example, if prior to the
disk-cloning operation your USB external HDD had been FAT32-formatted and
your XP OS was NTFS-formatted, the cloned contents will be NTFS-formatted.
There is no need to format the USB external HDD prior to the disk-cloning
operation.

13. Restoration of the system can be achieved by cloning the contents of the
data residing on the external HDD to an internal HDD through the normal
disk-cloning process as described above.

Note: Just one other point that should be emphasized with respect to the
disk cloning operation should the recipient of the clone be another
internal HDD and not a USB or Firewire external HDD. Immediately following
the disk cloning operation the machine should be shutdown and the source HDD
should be disconnected. Boot ONLY to the newly-cloned drive (as indicated in
step 13. above). DO NOT BOOT IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWING THE CLONING OPERATION
WITH BOTH DRIVES CONNECTED. Doing so is likely to cause future boot problems
with the cloned drive. Obviously there is no problem in this area should a
USB or Firewire EHD be the recipient of the clone since that device is not
ordinarily bootable in an XP environment.


Disk imaging:
The following are step-by-step instructions for using the Acronis True Image
9 Program to create disk images for backup purposes and using those disk
images for recovery of the system. (The steps are essentially the same using
the newer ATI 10 version):

Note: The recipient of the disk image, presumably a USB external HDD or an
internal HD, must be a formatted drive (unlike the case in a disk-to-disk
cloning operation where an unformatted or "virgin" HD can be used as the
destination disk.

Before undertaking this disk imaging process it's probably best to close all
programs running in the background including your anti-virus and other
anti-malware programs.

1. With both your source and destination hard drives connected, access the
Acronis program and click "Backup" on main menu.

2. The "Create Backup Wizard" screen opens. Click Next.

3. "Select Backup Type" screen opens with two options:
a. The entire disk contents or individual partitions.
b. Files and folders.
Select a. and click Next.

(In the ATI 10 version four options will be listed: My Computer, My Data, My
Application Settings, and My E-mail. Select the My Computer option and click
Next.)

4. The "Partitions Selection" screen opens. Disk 1 and Disk 2 are listed
with their drive letter designations. Check the disk to be backed up -
presumably Disk 1 - and click Next.

5. An informational message appears recommending an incremental or
differential backup if original full backup had previously been created.
Since this will be the first backup we will be selecting, just click OK to
close the message box.

6. Next screen is the "Backup Archive Location". In the "File name:" text
box, (in ATI 10 version it's the "Folder:" text box) enter your backup drive
letter and enter a file name for the backup file, e.g., "F:\Backup 11-6".
The Acronis program will automatically append the ".tib" file extension to
the filename. Click Next.

7. "Select Backup Mode" screen opens. Select "Create a new full backup
archive" option and click Next.

8. "Choose Backup Options" screen opens with two options:
a. Use default options
b. Set the options manually

If you select the b. option, you can select various options listed on the
next screen. Two of them are of interest to us:

Compression level - Four options - None, Normal (the default), High,
Maximum.

There's a "Description" area that shows the estimated size of the backup
archive depending upon the option chosen, and the estimated "creation time"
for each option.

(In this example, the actual size of the data to be backed up is 20 GB).
None - 20 GB and estimated creation time of 1 hr 40 min
Normal - 11.96 GB " " " " 50 min (Default)
High - 10.46 GB " " " " 1 hr
Maximum - 10.2 GB " " " " 1 hr

Backup priority - Three options - Low, Normal, or High
Low - "backup processed more slowly, but it will not influence other
processes running on computer." (Default)
Normal - "normal speed but backup process will influence other processes
running on computer."
High - "normal speed but backup process will strongly influence other
processes running on computer."

(As an example, I selected Normal (default) compression level and High
backup priority. The backup archive totaled 15.8 GB compressed from 20 GB;
took 16 min 15 sec to create. Creating a disk-to-disk clone would probably
have taken no longer and possibly a bit faster.)

NOTE: You can set the defaults from the Acronis Tools > Options > Default
backup options menu items.

9. "Archive comments" screen opens allowing you to add comments to the
backup archive which you can review during the Recovery process. Click Next.

10. The next screen summarizes the backup operation to be performed. Review
the information for correctness and click the Proceed button.

11. The next screen will display status bars reflecting the progress of the
backup operation. After the backup operation finishes, an informational
message will appear indicting the operation was successfully completed.


Incremental Backups (Disk Images)
1. After the initial backup archive has been created you can create
incremental backups reflecting any data changes since the previous backup
operation. This incremental backup process proceeds considerably faster than
the initial backup operation. This, of course, is a major advantage of
creating disk images rather than undertaking the disk-to-disk cloning
process. Then too, since these created disk images are compressed files they
are reasonable in size. And because the incremental disk images can usually
be created very quickly (as compared with the direct disk-to-disk cloning
process), there's an incentive for the user to keep his/her system
up-to-date backup-wise by using this disk imaging process.

Note that you must create the incremental backup files on the same HDD where
you created the original backup archive and any subsequent incremental
backup files.

2. Access the Acronis program as detailed above and move through the
screens. When you arrive at the "Backup Archive Location" screen, click on
the original backup archive file, or if one or more incremental backup files
were previously created, click on the last incremental backup file and
verify that the correct drive letter and file name are shown in the "File
name:" text box. After clicking Next, the program will automatically create
a file name for the incremental backup archive file, using the original file
name and appending a consecutive number - starting at 2 - at the end of the
file name. For example, say you named the original backup archive file
"Backup 11-6". The first incremental backup file will be automatically named
"Backup 11-62" and the next incremental file "Backup 11-63", etc.

3. On the following "Select Backup Mode" screen, select the "Create
incremental backup" option, click Next, and proceed through the screens as
you did in creating the initial backup archive.


Recovery Process (Disk images)
We'll assume the recovery will be to either a non-defective HDD that has
become unbootable for one reason or another, or to a new HDD.

The recovery process utilizes the Acronis "bootable rescue media" (CD) that
you created when you originally installed the Acronis program. If you didn't
create that bootable CD at that time, you can create it now from the Acronis
program by clicking on the "Create Bootable Rescue Media" icon on the
opening Acronis screen and simply going through the screens to create the
bootable CD.

Note: If the recovery will be made to a HDD that is still bootable and
you're able to access the Acronis program on that drive, then you can
undertake the recovery process without the need for using the "bootable
rescue" CD.

1. With both the drive containing the backup disk images and the drive you
want to restore connected and with the bootable rescue CD inserted, boot up.

2. At the opening screen, click on "Acronis True Image Home (Full Version)".

3. The program will open after some moments. On the "Pick a Task" screen
that opens, click on "Recovery".

4. The "Welcome to the Restore Data Wizard!" screen opens. Click on Next.

5. The "Archive Selection" screen opens. Navigate to the drive containing
the backup archive file(s) and select the last incremental backup file or
the original full backup file if no incremental backup files were
subsequently created. Ensure that the correct drive letter and filename are
entered in the "File name:" text box. Click Next.

6. In the Acronis version 9 program, the "Archive Date Selection" screen
opens. Select (highlight) the last incremental backup file from the listing
and click Next. This screen does not appear in version 10.

7. The "Restoration Type Selection" screen opens. Select the option,
"Restore disks or partitions" and click Next.

8. The "Partition or Disk to Restore" will open. Click on "Disk 1" and click
Next.

9. After some moments the "Restored Hard Disk Drive Location" screen opens.
Select (highlight) the HDD to be restored and click Next.

10. On the next screen select the "Yes" option to delete all current
partitions on the destination HDD. Click Next.

11. On the next screen select the "No" option and click Next.

12. On the next screen you have the option to validate the backup archive
before restoration. Click Next.

13. The final screen before the restoration operation begins will open.
Confirm that the information as shown is correct. Click Proceed.

14. Click OK when following completion of the recovery operation a message
appears indicating a successful recovery operation.

15. Remove the Acronis bootable rescue CD and close the Acronis program. The
system will reboot. A Windows "Found New Hardware" message followed by the
"System Settings Change" message box may appear on the Desktop. If they do,
click Yes for a reboot.

Note: While the Acronis program is not designed to clone individual
partitions - it can clone only the entire contents of one HDD to another
HDD - you can backup & recover individual partitions through the disk
imaging process as described above.
Anna
 
J

Jonathan Sachs

If my understanding is correct, might you consider jettisoning your tape
drive paraphernalia and instead use a disk imaging program such as Acronis
True Image to meet your objective?

I appreciate your desire to help, but no, that is a very incomplete
description of my objective, which includes historical file recovery
and archiving large sound and image files as well as "plain" backup.
While whole-disk recovery is certainly the most important purpose of
my backup system, it is by far the least common one.
 

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