Scanned Documents Too Big/Epson Perfection 1260 Scanner

[johnandjanet]

I want the scanned documents to be 8.5 x 11 like the originals.
I have tried three times to scan 7 documents for Email using my Epson
Perfection 1260 scanner. The first time the resolution was 150.
Resultant images I emailed to myself were much to large. Tried 110
resolution. Still too large. Tried 100 resolution. Still to large.
What I want is actual size. These are 8.5 x 11 documents. How can I get
them scanned at original size? These documents are black & white. Black
text on white paper. They are invoices.

With each of the three efforts I had to start from scratch and scan all
7 documents instead of being able to manipulate them until they were
the right size. Is there anyway around this?

Thanks so much. Time is of the essence.

John
mailto:[email protected]

 

[Wayne]

I want the scanned documents to be 8.5 x 11 like the originals.
I have tried three times to scan 7 documents for Email using my Epson
Perfection 1260 scanner. The first time the resolution was 150.
Resultant images I emailed to myself were much to large. Tried 110
resolution. Still too large. Tried 100 resolution. Still to large.
What I want is actual size. These are 8.5 x 11 documents. How can I get
them scanned at original size? These documents are black & white. Black
text on white paper. They are invoices.

With each of the three efforts I had to start from scratch and scan all
7 documents instead of being able to manipulate them until they were
the right size. Is there anyway around this?

Thanks so much. Time is of the essence.

John, I suspect your request is that the 8.5x11 inch documents should
appear acutal size on the COMPUTER VIDEO SCREEN ?

The big problem with that is that inches are not defined on the video
screen. Video screens are dimensioned in pixels (and digital images are
also dimensioned in pixels).

So, for example, if you use a 1024x768 pixel screen, and if you want the
11 inch paper dimension to fill the 768 pixels of height, then scan at
768 pixels / 11 inches = 70 dpi (pixels per inch).

It still will not likely measure 11 inches. But, you can scan at about
75 or 100 dpi (probably 100 is generally closer) and roughly approximate
actual paper size on the screen. Not because it works that way, but
merely because it happens to come out that way.

Any of your 150, 110, or 100 dpi scans should print ON PAPER at actual
size, but maybe 300 dpi will print better quality.

The site below is about this.

 

[johnandjanet]

Thank you, Wayne.
Actually, what I want is for the scanned invoices that I will be
sending via email to someone be, when that someone prints them out, the
same size as the original documents. I don't give a hoot what they look
like on the computer screen.

I know I must be doing something wrong, but is it too much to ask of a
scanner and its software to reproduce the original document and not
blow it up or shrink it down on its own without any request by me to do
so?

I did set the resolution at 96 one time and the result when I printed
it out was close to original size but a tiny bit smaller. So then I
figured 100 dpi might be just about right. Wrong. That one was too big.
So I think I'll just send it at 96 dpi.

Thank you again, Wayne. It was nice of you to help.

John

 

[Michael Walraven]

FYI my scanner is an EPSON Perfection 4180 using scanner software that came
with that machine.

File types bmp jpg tif and pdf are supported with this scanner/software.
The bmp,jpg,tif formats (I have never used the pdf so don't know) contain in
their data the necessary information for a rendering program
to know the target size of that file. If you right click on the file and
check the properties/summary (advanced) you should see
data on width/height in pixels and the horizontal/vertical resolution in
DPI. Dividing the pixels by the DPI should give you the target size in
inches.
If these data are correct (i.e yield 8.5 x 11 inches or thereabouts, the
scanner may have trimmed a bit), then the problem is in the software that is
doing the printing rather than in your scanner.

FYI on my scanner, if I select that my destination is for printing it
recommends 300dpi as resolution and 'original size' as the destination size.
I seem to remember that normal fax resolution is 172 dpi, (seems a strange
number but that is what I recall).

Michael

 

[Wayne]

Thank you, Wayne.
Actually, what I want is for the scanned invoices that I will be
sending via email to someone be, when that someone prints them out, the
same size as the original documents. I don't give a hoot what they look
like on the computer screen.

I know I must be doing something wrong, but is it too much to ask of a
scanner and its software to reproduce the original document and not
blow it up or shrink it down on its own without any request by me to do
so?

I did set the resolution at 96 one time and the result when I printed
it out was close to original size but a tiny bit smaller. So then I
figured 100 dpi might be just about right. Wrong. That one was too big.
So I think I'll just send it at 96 dpi.

OK John, then I'm sorry I misunderstood, but the described symptoms
sounded just like you were trying for actual size on the video screen,
which is a common mistake, because that is an impossibility (we may be
able to match size for our one screen, but it wont likely match size on
any second system screen - screens are different sizes).

OK then, for printing original size, it is NOT about dpi. Instead, just
make sure your scanners scaling field shows 100% size. Scan maybe at
300 dpi 100% scale, and it will print original size. At 100%, it will
always print original scanned size, regardless of scan resolution. Only
use other than 100% scaling if you want to print it enlarged.

One possible complication - Your menu File - Print may offer some
options to resize print jobs, like maybe to fill the page, or to scale
to 75% size, etc. Turn off those options if you dont want them.

Another possible complication - not likely but if you may be saving to a
GIF file, then GIF doesnt save any dpi information at all, and this
would be a problem. For email, use a TIF file for line art mode or a
JPG file for grayscale or color mode, and those file types will save the
dpi information to retain original size.

96 dpi is a small file for email, but it really is too low to print well
(original print size is unaffected, but the quality will be low). 200
dpi line art is fax quality, which is not very good, but may be
sufficient for a rough draft. And 200 dpi is likely enough for grayscale
or color mode.

However line art mode at 300 dpi will print text better. A 300 dpi scan
will print great, and it will be original size on paper if you scanned
at 100% scale, but it will appear 3 or 4 times larger on the video
screen. The video screen size is very different than it prints on paper.

If the scans are of just text, then scan in line art mode at 300 dpi for
the smallest and best file. For that, use a TIF file with some sort of
compression like LZW (G3 or G4 is smaller, but the recipient may only
have LZW to open it). A 300 dpi line art TIF file size should not be
over about 250KB per full size page with LZW compression.

If you scan it at the 100% Scale setting, then it will print original
size regardless of the dpi setting. The dpi setting is for quality.

 

[Ken Weitzel]

OK John, then I'm sorry I misunderstood, but the described symptoms
sounded just like you were trying for actual size on the video screen,
which is a common mistake, because that is an impossibility (we may be
able to match size for our one screen, but it wont likely match size on
any second system screen - screens are different sizes).

OK then, for printing original size, it is NOT about dpi. Instead, just
make sure your scanners scaling field shows 100% size. Scan maybe at
300 dpi 100% scale, and it will print original size. At 100%, it will
always print original scanned size, regardless of scan resolution. Only
use other than 100% scaling if you want to print it enlarged.

One possible complication - Your menu File - Print may offer some
options to resize print jobs, like maybe to fill the page, or to scale
to 75% size, etc. Turn off those options if you dont want them.

Another possible complication - not likely but if you may be saving to a
GIF file, then GIF doesnt save any dpi information at all, and this
would be a problem. For email, use a TIF file for line art mode or a
JPG file for grayscale or color mode, and those file types will save the
dpi information to retain original size.

96 dpi is a small file for email, but it really is too low to print well
(original print size is unaffected, but the quality will be low). 200
dpi line art is fax quality, which is not very good, but may be
sufficient for a rough draft. And 200 dpi is likely enough for grayscale
or color mode.

However line art mode at 300 dpi will print text better. A 300 dpi scan
will print great, and it will be original size on paper if you scanned
at 100% scale, but it will appear 3 or 4 times larger on the video
screen. The video screen size is very different than it prints on paper.

If the scans are of just text, then scan in line art mode at 300 dpi for
the smallest and best file. For that, use a TIF file with some sort of
compression like LZW (G3 or G4 is smaller, but the recipient may only
have LZW to open it). A 300 dpi line art TIF file size should not be
over about 250KB per full size page with LZW compression.

If you scan it at the 100% Scale setting, then it will print original
size regardless of the dpi setting. The dpi setting is for quality.

Hi...

Durn, now I'm drawn into the confusion. Not unusual, though

An image _has_ no size. A piece of paper does, the scanner does,
your monitor does, heck the size of your living room does. But an
image doesn't.

Imagine taking a tight close up pic of your grandkids face. How big
is it? The size of the sensor? The size of your grandkid's face?
It has no size until we do something physical with it. Print it 4 x 6.
the the piece of paper will be 4 x6. Same for 30 x 16. Projected on
an Imax screen it will be dozens of feet.

So, in the OP's case all he needs do is provide sufficient dpi to
allow "me" to print it at whatever size I might like, or he may
recommend. Then it's up to "me" to print it as I like.

Hope this helps.

Ken

 

[Wayne]

An image _has_ no size. A piece of paper does, the scanner does,
your monitor does, heck the size of your living room does. But an
image doesn't.

Imagine taking a tight close up pic of your grandkids face. How big
is it? The size of the sensor? The size of your grandkid's face?
It has no size until we do something physical with it. Print it 4 x 6.
the the piece of paper will be 4 x6. Same for 30 x 16. Projected on
an Imax screen it will be dozens of feet.

So, in the OP's case all he needs do is provide sufficient dpi to
allow "me" to print it at whatever size I might like, or he may
recommend. Then it's up to "me" to print it as I like.

Hi Ken. Theoretical debate accepted. Yes, digital images always have a
size, but the dimensions of that size is in pixels, not in inches. For
example, a 1024x768 pixel image. Paper is dimensioned in inches. But video
screens are dimensioned in pixels, that 1024x768 pixels again. The image
size in pixels is the most fundamental aspect of its inherent properties.

There are always a few IFs and BUTs possible, and even though the image is
dimensioned only in pixels, image files generally do contain a dpi value,
often the scanning resolution by default (assuming 100% scale). This dpi
value is just a reference number stored in the file for future printing
purposes. The dpi value predicts a future image printed size in inches on
paper (dpi is pixels per inch, the inches are on paper, and the pixel
dimensions will cover so many inches of paper at this pixels per inch
value). In that way, the image file does define a future dimension in
inches on paper, when it reaches paper.

Our photo editor's resize dialog will show all of these numbers, the image
size in pixels, the dpi printing resolution value, and the future dimension
in inches on paper at that dpi value. Except yes, we can rescale to change
that dpi value at will of course, and thus change the future printed size in
inches, up until the time we actually print the image on paper and it
becomes history. Only the size of the image in pixels is actually an
inherent property of the image.

But if we dont arbitrarily rescale it (dont change the dpi value), the image
file will contain the scanning resolution value (assuming 100% scale), which
will be stored in the file as the printing resolution value. Thererfore,
(with scanning resolution equal to printing resolution), the pixels and dpi
and inches always work out (assuming 100% scale) so that the image will
always print at original size again (unless you rescale it to another size).
This is true for any scanning resolution, which affects quality, but not
printed size, as such.

We can easily scale any image to any printed size, but I cant imagine any
way that simply changing scan resolution (before the scan) will affect the
printed image size on paper. Such a resolution change would of course
greatly affect the image size in pixels, and therefore does greatly change
the image size seen on the video screen, but scanning resolution alone wont
affect the size printed on paper. Some other action is required.

So I assumed the OP needed to know that scanning at the 100% scale setting
would always print at original size, regardless of resolution. I have not
figured out what John might be seeing, unless he is judging size on the
video screen. But the video screen is about pixels instead of inches.

To judge printed size, check the image resize dialog where future printed
size on paper is shown. Or actually print it.

 

[johnandjanet]

Looks like I created a fire storm, but one that we all benefit from.

I scanned the invoices at 96 dpi and emailed them. The recipient in
Lithuania was delighted when she printed them out. They did end up at
just about the same size as the originals.

Many thanks to all of you scanner-smart guys. W want you on those
walls, we need you on those walls!

 

[Jim]

I want the scanned documents to be 8.5 x 11 like the originals.
I have tried three times to scan 7 documents for Email using my Epson
Perfection 1260 scanner. The first time the resolution was 150.
Resultant images I emailed to myself were much to large. Tried 110
resolution. Still too large. Tried 100 resolution. Still to large.
What I want is actual size. These are 8.5 x 11 documents. How can I get
them scanned at original size? These documents are black & white. Black
text on white paper. They are invoices.

All of those scanned at the actual size. Your problem is that you are
scanning at one resolution but displaying at another. So, it isn't
surprising that the display size is larger than the document size.
My monitor displays at 96 dpi. If you should happen to want me to see your
document on my monitor at its size, then you should scan at 96dpi.
Of course, you could always rescan at a low resolution while keep the same
document size with your favorit image editor.
Jim

 

[Tim]

I think the problem may be that when you open the JPEG the default
program is an internet browser. Which prints screen resolution and not
actual size.

 

[Jim]

I think the problem may be that when you open the JPEG the default
program is an internet browser. Which prints screen resolution and not
actual size.

Yes, that is the problem. Browsers ignore all size settings. They just
load the image and display it in whatever number of pixels there are and at
the default screen resolution. What the OP should do is scan the 8.5x11
documents at 72 dpi. That setting should take care of his problem.
The OP did not realize that all of the settings he chose just load more
pixels from an 8.5x11 paper.
Jim

 

[Wayne]

I think the problem may be that when you open the JPEG the default
program is an internet browser. Which prints screen resolution and not
actual size.

Ah so. Thanks, that would exactly explain it, and seems correct here.
The OP said he was actually printing, yet what he saw didnt make sense
except for the way that video works.

Web browsers are NOT the way to print images. Browsers print web pages,
and (most) will print the images at 96 dpi on paper, to scale the image
size to match the text size on a web page, to retain the video web page
formatting on paper.

See http://www.scantips.com/no72dpib.html#7

I should have realized that before, but printing from a browser never
entered my mind. It seems the worst way to do it. Use a photo editor
to print images.