Saving avi project to movie is taking increasing eternity.......

G

Guest

Why is WMM so poorly made that it crashes more often and regularly then the
sun comes up in the morning? This REALLY needs to be paid attention to and
fixed, along with the user-unfriendly design chosen by microsoft in only
allowing to save to wmv and HUGE avi files which take forever and a lifetime
to create and save - allowing we even have enough disc space left over to
save them due to the deliberately userunfriendly save to media options in
wmm.
So after spending many, many days and 6-15 hours during these days trying
to create a simple movie file from captured video from my minidv video camera
that should / could have only taken maybe 2 friggin hours if the program
wasnt designed with such proprietary greed and in available output formats
(wmv & giant sized avi) and dealing with constant, literally every minute
freezing from wmm when trying to do the simplest of tasks such as sending a
small jpg file or avi file to timeline or selecting a transition effect.
So now Im trying to simply save this project into a movie file, i initially
selected the greedy hog dvavi setting to save to which, for a mere 37 minute
file with minimum transition effects and only one tiny added audio file
started showing like 989999 minutes remaining (while increasing this time to
complete as i watched it supposedly saving the file to a file useable to
archive to dvd and or at least to start to have it in some movie format so
its not lost).
Too many frustrating, precious, unreplaceable & valuable time and energy has
been wasted by microsoft wmm crashing, freezing and erasing or "losing" my
edited save movie projects - so that when ive restarted wmm and attempted to
open saved projects it instead brings up the images of the clips in my saved
projects - but not really! Instead they all are the shape of the clips but
white with big red X in the middle of the shell of each clip of mysteriously
"unsaved" projects.
Why WMM doesnt make it simple, effective & easier (which microsoft could
easily do if they cared at least as much about integrity, honor and others as
they do about greed, money and selfishness under the guise of egalitarianism)
to use stable, reliable, versatile software and save our projects into truly
archival standalone media files and directly dvd authoring formats like mpeg,
etc with harddrive, memory and userfriendly / conscious, file size formats!?.
Im pretty fed up with the amount of inherent, completely unneeded
cumbersomeness, perpetual crashing, and resourcehogging / way too much tiime
consuminness of these programs. And this MyDVD software being touted by wmm
sites is telling - as i have that software program and its utter garbage!
Hardly works for anything, and its layout, designs and options as well as
actual reliability to burn is kindergarden level. Atrocious and a waste of
precious time as often as not.
So here i am still watching the "saving movie..." minutes still rising ...
at 132802 minutes AND RISING STILL - to save my project to an estimated 558MB
file format to playback on computer small size. As at this point at least to
get the thing to save at all so all is not lost AGAIN after hours upon hours
upon hours upon wasted bloody hours of using this bloody faulty program when
it should could have only taken an hour or two instead of going on a week and
a frigging half due to such instability and GARGANTUANLLY HUGE file size
options we are forced into saving into tiny narrow range to use by microsoft.
And my computer works fine otherwise. I also just ran scann disc and
defrag from before startup (i forget what thats technically called when ran
below normal windows operating mode) and have about 10 gigs of harddrive
space. Which should be way more then enough space to save, edit and do
convert a measlly 40 minutes of digital video footage from this wedding im
trying to save and burn into dvd movie.
 
G

Graham Hughes

Couldn't be bothered to read all of this, why not spend some of your money
and buy an app which does what you want then? dv-avi is the one constant in
all apps, so you may well be struggling here.......

If you have red x#s you've either deleted or moved the original file, maybe
learning how to use your pc would be of greater benefit than writing such
long posts of utter rubbish.

--
Graham Hughes
MVP Digital Media
www.myvideoproblems.co.uk
www.dvds2treasure.com
www.simplydv.com
 
G

Guest

Well, that was an unhelpful response. Why even bother writing it? Yes, I am
frustrated. For good reason. And I know pretty well how to use my pc. And Ive
already spent a small fortune in purchasing this notebook computer, as much
as i could have spent in buying a used car or motorcycle, and rightly so
expect that it will come with programs which already work well. I should not
have to go buy other programs to do the same tasks. Although I have done so,
and they havent worked any better. Not being rich, i dont have disposable
income to keep buying new software when i already have a program to do the
tasks, and rightly expect my hard earned money to not have gone to waste with
it.

I posted here for input, while yes also expressing my honest frustration
with the apparent tendancy of people & companies to put products into the
market to make money when they are still unrefined, faulty and
userunfriendly.

So, after going to bed last night with the movie file being "saved" into a
small file format supposedly final size of around 558 MB from a mere 37
minutes of dv edited footage with minimal effects created in WMM, i came
back this next morning after selecting to save to hopefully see its finished
saved file - instead its STILL in process of being "saved" and, now at
"2216330 minutes remaining" and climbing STILL higher with no progress
indicated on the progress bar. - This is absolutely NUTS!
If you have no empathy or understanding why this would be frustrating to
have so much valuable time, money & energy wasted in trying to use this
program then please and would rather just dismiss my valid questions and
frustration like previous poster then please dont bother replying with
dismissing comments. If you do have some workable insight or knowledge in
this issue
(and understand that my and others venting sometiimes like ive done comes
from the feeling that consumers are often stuck with spending their a
significant amount of our hard earned money & time on products which are
designed and marketed before their really refined and their bugs worked, and
with more emphasis on proprietary constraints then interoperability &
efficiency of use, out in the interest of making more money quicker for their
sellers who seem to respond like the person who replied previously or
completely ignoring our time, situations and resulting frustrations.)
For those who do respond to questions on this forum with sincerity &
empathy - thank you.
 
G

Guest

Yes, I do deserve an empathetic & sincere reply, for the reasons i already
stated. And yes, while "most" people ask questions, which i also did, as well
as expressed understandable, valid frustrations concerning the fragility and
problematic tendancies of this program. When people pay money & time for
products (bundled or not) we have a right to expect them to be stable,
reliable, trouble free and efficient. If you were to buy a brand new vehicle
would you expect to just nicely accept it breaking down every couple minutes
and have to get out and tinker with it to get it running again? Maybe you do,
but i and others have more respect for our time, investments and energy. So I
vented - not intended directly at any of you - but generally about the
product and techs who dont want to really take responsability for the quality
and lack of quality of their products & the time, energy & money its costs
users, and as microsoft as an entitity doesnt seem to particularly care as
long as it has its stranglehold on the market.
My notebook has an 80 gig harrdrive, with currently about 10-14 gigs free.
Yes, I realize now that such avi file will consume that much space. But its
also the conversion and saving process which is causing already stated
problems. Thank you for clarifying that.
 
G

Guest

Yes, that is exactly the problem, and one of the main sources of my
frustration - if a user dares express their valid frustrations with problems
and "issues" with said product the attitude such as ndsteve and grahamhughes
express is basically you dont want to hear & acknowledge the validity of our
frustrations - so just go away unless your willing to just lie down and
accept the frustrations, imposed limitations and "issues" as acceptable, a
given and normal. Microsoft has been paid, so take what you get. Thats
exactly what using the product feels like, and now i see its mirrored in
microsofts own related newsgroup replies.

"First of all, you don't deserve a response of anykind...
They don't rant and bitch the length of a
 
G

Guest

thirdly, with only 10GB of hard drive space, I'm guessing your notebook specs
may not be what they should be. How could you spend a fortune on a notebook
and only have 10GB free. A 1hr DV-AVI will take up 13 GB!
 
G

Guest

First of all, you don't deserve a response of anykind. Most people when they
have problems, they ask questions. They don't rant and bitch the length of a
novel. Secondly, had you bothered to peruse any previous posts, you might
find that MM has issues for some people with JPEGs.

I suggest you learn how to ask for help or go away!
 
J

John Inzer

ocean said:
Yes, that is exactly the problem, and one of the main
sources of my frustration - if a user dares express their
valid frustrations with problems and "issues" with said
product the attitude such as ndsteve and grahamhughes
express is basically you dont want to hear & acknowledge
the validity of our frustrations - so just go away unless
your willing to just lie down and accept the
frustrations, imposed limitations and "issues" as
acceptable, a given and normal. Microsoft has been paid,
so take what you get. Thats exactly what using the
product feels like, and now i see its mirrored in
microsofts own related newsgroup replies.
Click to expand...
==============================
Have you been to the following site?
http://www.papajohn.org/
Choose...Problem Solving / Check List...
in the left pane.

Please...if you have questions...post them.
Your complaints, frustrations, suggestions,
etc. would be best directed to Microsoft at
the following address:

MS Product Feedback
(e-mail address removed)

--

John Inzer
MS Picture It! MVP
How to ask a newsgroup question:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375
 
W

Wojo

All of the reply's you got were well deserved.
The majority of us here have helped many people out of many different issues
and we do so willingly and voluntarily. Why? Because we like to help out the
people who are coming here and politely asking for our help. Since many of
us have been working with WMM for quite a long time and the program works
just fine for us it is at least my opinion that the program was not "made
poorly" at all. In most cases it is either a system not designed for video
editing (such as a computer with only 10gb free harddrive space) or an
installation problem (which can happen with any program at any time) or
sometimes simply user error.
If you aren't able to accept WMM's "limitations" as acceptable (it is only
designed to be a simple video editor after all) then maybe spend the money
on a higher end application.
Otherwise if you actually want a "helpful" response from any of us how about
trying to simply describe the issue(s) you are having briefly and without
all the sarcastic whining and maybe you'll get more useful responses.
-Wojo
 
G

Guest

Yes, it can all be frustrating if you are not proficient in using a program.
The best answer I could give to Ocean, is that I have made MANY movies with
Movie Maker and consider it to be a great program. One suggestion I might
have is that if you have spent 15 hrs. on a 'simple' movie, that you might
lighten up on the size and complexity of the project; at least before
expecting a notebook to handle it. With terms like 'proprietary greed'
.....let me guess.....you are a 'liberal'.....against 'capitalism' in all its
forms.....want everyone else to do your work and expect sympathy for you as a
victim in all you do. To those of us who use Movie Maker and those in here
dedicated to helping others, we do not consider it a waste of our 'precious,
unreplaceable, and valuable time and energy' to help snipers like you.
So, state your question plainly....learn the program.....and become amazed
at what others can do that is above your pay grade!
 
G

Guest

dickmr and all,
Thank you for responding. Though you made many assumptions on my personal
character which are quite off. I am not "against 'capitalism' in all its
forms.....want everyone else to do your work and expect sympathy for you as a
victim in all you do... "
Click to expand...
I am in fact a business owner myself, and so definitely not against running
a business. However, I do have integtrity in what i do, and stand behind my
"product" / service. And as i already stated clearly what my concerns were,
it was very clear i simply, rightly expect the same. No, I dont expect
sympathy from you. Though empathy & respect for reasons already stated would
be called for,
as a consumer spending their hard earned cash on a product which is rightly
expected to work much more reliably and less proprietarily then wmm has shown
itself to perform.
Its telling that so far the only responses on this microsoft site have been
people uncapable or unwilling to understand and empathize with the resulting
frustrations with using a program which, as an example, is so unstable and
proprietary that it apparently has "problems" handling one of the most
universal, commonly used image files as .jpg, as someone earlier suggested
this being a possible reason for the constant crashing or freezing of the
program.
And i have only spent 15+ hours making a simple movie due to the constant
freezing, crashing and other hangups the program has encountered. In itself
the movie would have been less then one hour, with only simple transitions, a
few short titles and then a short credit scroll at the end.
No, I do not expect "everyone else" to do my work for me, i expect the
program ive spent money and time to use to work without problems so that i
can do my own work without it crashing, freezing, but instead working
smoothly with straightforward, and common file formats. Im trying to bring in
and edit some off the wall, highly obscure file formats to work with.
Im glad your not against helping "snipers" like me. Thank you. Perhaps you
are doing it out of the kindness & empathy of your heart. Or maybe its your
job which you are also paid for.?
As a business owner myself, i respect the creation of a product and the
right to earn a living in selling such products or services. But I also
respect the right of the consumers and clients, (both in how i treat my
clients and in how i respect myself to know i deserve to be treated) and
selling them a product or service which is designed or performed in such a
way that it causes them problems, malfunctions, doesnt fully and smoothly do
what it claims or has a built in "proprietary" limitation or design which
prevents people from being able to freely use it to their benefit with other
relevant services or systems, would be unintegral as well as simply poor
business. Its not simply a matter of telling them if they dont like it they
can p*** off and go spend their money elsewhere in such situations. What is
at least as important is integrity & respecting the consumers / clients
investment of time, money and trust.
If that trust is dishonored or abused through selling faulty, unstable,
intentionally proprietary or limited operability which could be more
user-"friendly", or misrepresented products & services (as Microsoft is
infamous for throughout the business and consumer world for) then i would
understand and respect the consumer who is truthful and respects themselves
enough to voice their frustration with the situation, rather then just
meekly lying down and accepting it as the "norm" to be worked around and
accepted. Belittling, ignoring or infering theres something wrong with the
person who is understandably frustrated with having discovered they spent
their time, money & trust on something which right out has bugs & breaks down
when working with even some of the most common, related materials, only
reinforces the lack of quality & integrity associated with such product,
service and those related to it.
Microsoft is king financially for now mostly because of its monopolizing
tendancies rather then a true quality and reliably stable & versatile product
& interoperability and respect for the consumers - just look at how the big M
has fought to prevent others from entering the market as "competition" which
would provide people / consumers with more open systems and greater
interoperability and choice, in fear of then no longer being king of the
microhill.
When consumers buy a product like this, we are spending our money for the
end creation of a product and its ease, versatility, reliability and freedom
of use. Most of us have other demands and focuses in our careers & lives than
to have to spend more time learning to work around and tinker with what weve
paid to already work with that stable, versatile, reliable, interoperable
ease of use.
So from what ive read from others posts prior to and after my own posting,
and the replies to my posting, i understand Movie maker is simply designed
with inherent incompatibility with some of the most common file types (jpg
for instance), and loading & conversion of dvavi is simply very resource
demanding. I will keep working around these issues as much as possible, as i
would really like to be able to have a final, quality video to put onto dvd
of the wedding footage taken. Thank you for your other responses in this
forum, which have been helpful in working with movie makers limitations and
design.
 
G

Guest

I actually meant to type in "not" trying to bring in...,

"Im trying to bring in
and edit some off the wall, highly obscure file formats to work with." -
 
G

Graham Hughes

None of us work for Microsoft, none of us are paid by Microsoft. We do this
for pleasure and in our own time, it is no pleasure reading through posts
such as yours. Yes the app can be a pain, there are many problems, but none
of them are to do with us, we just try to help people who have the problems.

So, if you'd like to write those problems down without the extra pieces, we
will sit down and try to give you contructive replies.

--
Graham Hughes
MVP Digital Media
www.myvideoproblems.co.uk
www.dvds2treasure.com
www.simplydv.com


- if a user dares express their valid frustrations with problems
 
G

Guest

Your posts just get too damn long to read. Graham, Inzer, Wojo and myself are
regular readers and posters on this board. Some are way more technical than I
am. I have never had a problem with MM. Although I installed a webcam last
night and saw a new codec pack was loaded, so I'm curious to find out if I
will have any issues. Codec issues are some of the biggest problems with MM.

Here's the bottom line. What you may think is a 'simple' movie, may not be
so after all. I would make sure you aren't using JPEGs or MPEGs in your
movie. As was stated, MM is a free, simple movie editor that likes BMPs for
stills and DV-AVI for video. Also use WMAs not MP3s as they may cause
trouble.

Somwhere deep in your posts you refered to having a brand new car and asked
should it break down etc. Answer is no. But if you install yourself an alarm
system and/or a remote starter and then you start having electrical problems,
whose fault is it. You can't go running to the car manufacturer complaining
about their car.

So what I see with you is that on an 80GB notebook, you only have 10gb free.
Sounds like you have a lot of 'stuff' on a lower end machine (notebooks are
slower than desktops). Video editing is CPU intensive. You need space for MM
to build your movie. Here's an example. I have 1 hr of a DV-AVI. It takes up
about 13 GB. If I build a project to edit this video, MM will need not only
another 13 GB for the final movie, but I'm guessing another 13 gb or so to
work on it. I could be wrong on that number. So you should probably expect to
need 2-3 times the space of the original video or size of file you are
working with. 10 GB may sound like a lot, but in the video editing world, it
just may not cut it.

I have a P4 3.0 GHz
512 MB RAM
60 GB HD with 30-40 GB free
I move all my DV-AVI to a second 200 GB HD.

Give us your PC specs. Speed, RAM etc. What specific file types are in your
project? is the internet running or anti-virus running while you are saving
movie? Understand, the more you load on your pc the more things can go wrong
(codec conflicts, etc. which I haven't had any and hopfully won't).

It's not the car, its what you do to it after you pull out of the lot.
Programs conflict with programs, and people come here to find out how to
resolve them. Not just to bitch that they exist.

Even though I have no problems, I read the board regularly and help when i
can. I've even helped people who installed a second drive and didn't realize
that the transfer mode was not set correctly after install of the 2nd drive.
It was a situation I came across myself.

Sometimes the fixes are extreme and sometimes they are so simple. You just
have to be patient and get over that first hurdle before you can enjoy a
program like this.

Steve
 
G

Guest

There you go. Looks like most of the specs are ok. I would still be concerned
about only having 9.8 GB of free space. Even though you may only be saving
the movie as a lower size file (not a DV-AVI), the space for the temp build
of the movie may be too large. jpgs and mp3s don't affect every user. Some
posters say they have no problems, others, these files screw up everything.
Try chopping off most of the project (make a new one of very small file size)
eliminating the back 90% or so. Or to be clearer, try working with a part of
the movie that had a small original file size. Use the smallest original clip
possible. Try that as a test. Also, see if you can't get rid of some files
(or move them to another PC) to free up space and defrag. If you had no
problems with the jpgs and mp3 files, best guess is just the amount of free
space. I try to keep my free space at greater than 30GB so I have enough free
space for the temp build. If the test works, then make new projects bigger
and bigger from the one you really want. Don't forget to delete the test
movies you created or you will really run out of space.

Good luck.
 
G

Guest

Thank you. Yes, I have been backing up data to dvd discs, and have already
deleted the vast majority of larger files. Im a little confused what is now
taking up so much of my hard disc space as most of the remaining files on my
computer are relatively small text, saved webpages, some image files and only
a few smaller video files. I did a scan disc and defrag to try to clear more
space, last week. But it didnt really seem to improve space. When i can
afford to, i intend to purchase a larger external harddrive to move most data
to. That should help.
Thanks again
 
G

Guest

Remember, once you've saved a movie, the original file is still there. MM
doesn't overwrite the originals so if you've captured DV-AVI then saved a
movie or used other .avis to build your movie, the orignials are still where
they were captured to or stored. Remember my example. 13gb for original, 13gb
for new movie and space needed for temp files. Space runs out quickly.
 

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