SATA Drives, non RAID

[John Hollingsworth]

I've just ordered an A8V board and 2 x 160GB SATA drives.

If I want to use them as straight forward C: and D: drives, which is the
best method to do this?

Thanks.

John

Please remove "NO-SPAM" if sending email.

 

[Paul Taylor]

I've just ordered an A8V board and 2 x 160GB SATA drives.

If I want to use them as straight forward C: and D: drives, which is the
best method to do this?

If you have the latest BIOS (1006) and drivers, it should be Plug n' Play.
There's a BIOS option to select between RAID and non-RAID mode for one of
the controllers (I forget if it's the Promise or VIA Southbridge.)

Since you have two drives, why not use RAID-0 (striping) for increased
performance, or RAID-1 (mirroring) for redundancy?

 

[John Hollingsworth]

If you have the latest BIOS (1006) and drivers, it should be Plug n'
Play.
There's a BIOS option to select between RAID and non-RAID mode for one
of
the controllers (I forget if it's the Promise or VIA Southbridge.)

Since you have two drives, why not use RAID-0 (striping) for increased
performance, or RAID-1 (mirroring) for redundancy?

--

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
-=-
Paul Taylor Veni, vidi, tici -
(e-mail address removed) I came, I saw, I
ticked.

Ah - thanks Paul. I've down loaded the manual which doesn't make that
clear.

I am currently churning on what to do. On my present #1PC, I have C: and
D:, use C: for programs and D: for data only. I also Ghost C: to D: each
week and also Ghost my Laptop C: to D: too.

I would like to go for RAID-0, but have the problem of data backup unless
I buy another PATA drive, say. RAID-0+1 seems to need too many drives!
What would you advise?

Thanks

John

Please remove "NO-SPAM" if sending email.

 

[Paul Taylor]

I am currently churning on what to do. On my present #1PC, I have C: and
D:, use C: for programs and D: for data only. I also Ghost C: to D: each
week and also Ghost my Laptop C: to D: too.

I would like to go for RAID-0, but have the problem of data backup unless
I buy another PATA drive, say. RAID-0+1 seems to need too many drives!
What would you advise?

I haven't tried any RAID configurations on the A8V - I only have one drive.
:-/

Based on an MSI Pentium 4 system at work that's running RedHat 9 on a pair
of mirrored disks, RAID-1 (mirroring) should give you nearly double the
read performance and about the same write performance, while still
protecting against one of the disks failing. (In theory - never tried it
in anger...) You only get one disk's worth of storage capacity, though.

If you're only interested in speed, RAID-0 (striping) should give you an
increase in both read and write speeds, but with no protection against
a disk failure.

Since you're starting from a clean slate, try a few options and let us
know what you discover.

 

[John Hollingsworth]

I haven't tried any RAID configurations on the A8V - I only have one
drive.
:-/

Based on an MSI Pentium 4 system at work that's running RedHat 9 on a
pair
of mirrored disks, RAID-1 (mirroring) should give you nearly double the
read performance and about the same write performance, while still
protecting against one of the disks failing. (In theory - never tried
it
in anger...) You only get one disk's worth of storage capacity, though.

If you're only interested in speed, RAID-0 (striping) should give you an
increase in both read and write speeds, but with no protection against
a disk failure.

Since you're starting from a clean slate, try a few options and let us
know what you discover.

--

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
-=-
Paul Taylor Veni, vidi, tici -
(e-mail address removed) I came, I saw, I
ticked.

Thanks. So I'm to be a guinea pig, eh? ;-)

John

Please remove "NO-SPAM" if sending email.

 

[Paul Taylor]

Thanks. So I'm to be a guinea pig, eh? ;-)

Yep! "Your mission, should you choose to accept it..." ;-)

 

[John Hollingsworth]

Yep! "Your mission, should you choose to accept it..." ;-)

John

Please remove "NO-SPAM" if sending email.

 

[Egil Solberg]

If you're only interested in speed, RAID-0 (striping) should give you
an increase in both read and write speeds, but with no protection
against
a disk failure.

I think it is not so smart advicing people to run RAID0 when they only want
to hook up a couple of drives.

I believe in Storagereview as an authority and I want to direct attention to
their website.

http://www.storagereview.com/

Especially the frontpage
Quote:"Stop the RAID0 Insanity! 02 July 2004

In February of 2003, we took a brief time-out from our standard,
single-drive testing to formally address what we normally refuse to touch
with a 12-foot pole- a RAID0 array. Why? The StorageReview Discussion
community, mirroring forums around the net, burgeoned with hundreds of posts
from readers seeking advice on which RAID adapter to get and which hard
drives to stripe for their power rigs.
Simple theory, however, indicated that striping would not
significantly help the localized (as opposed to both random and sequential),
low-depth usage that dominated even highly-multitasked, single-user
scenarios. The best advice, as a result, was to avoid striping. Many
readers, however refused to believe."

 

[Milleron]

Ah - thanks Paul. I've down loaded the manual which doesn't make that
clear.

I am currently churning on what to do. On my present #1PC, I have C: and
D:, use C: for programs and D: for data only. I also Ghost C: to D: each
week and also Ghost my Laptop C: to D: too.

I would like to go for RAID-0, but have the problem of data backup unless
I buy another PATA drive, say. RAID-0+1 seems to need too many drives!
What would you advise?

Do it the way you originally planned. RAID 0 will improve performance
but NOT PERCEPTIBLY -- i.e., you'd have to use a disk benchmarking
program to document it -- AND RAID 0 will double the chance of a HD
failure. Your present setup is the best. This will probably start
another flame war, but unless you are doing a lot of video processing,
working with really huge graphic files, or building a server, you'll
be much better off without RAID 0.
Ron

 

[Milleron]

I haven't tried any RAID configurations on the A8V - I only have one drive.
:-/

Based on an MSI Pentium 4 system at work that's running RedHat 9 on a pair
of mirrored disks, RAID-1 (mirroring) should give you nearly double the
read performance and about the same write performance, while still
protecting against one of the disks failing. (In theory - never tried it
in anger...) You only get one disk's worth of storage capacity, though.

Now, how in the world could RAID 1 give ANY increase in read
performance, let alone "double" the rate?? If we're talking about
theory, the latency in the RAID controller could only SLOW BOTH read
and write performance.

snip

Ron

 

[Milleron]

I think it is not so smart advicing people to run RAID0 when they only want
to hook up a couple of drives.

I believe in Storagereview as an authority and I want to direct attention to
their website.

http://www.storagereview.com/

Especially the frontpage
Quote:"Stop the RAID0 Insanity! 02 July 2004

In February of 2003, we took a brief time-out from our standard,
single-drive testing to formally address what we normally refuse to touch
with a 12-foot pole- a RAID0 array. Why? The StorageReview Discussion
community, mirroring forums around the net, burgeoned with hundreds of posts
from readers seeking advice on which RAID adapter to get and which hard
drives to stripe for their power rigs.
Simple theory, however, indicated that striping would not
significantly help the localized (as opposed to both random and sequential),
low-depth usage that dominated even highly-multitasked, single-user
scenarios. The best advice, as a result, was to avoid striping. Many
readers, however refused to believe."

Here, here!! Best advice I've seen in days! Thanks for yet another
published bash of RAID 0 in single-user desktops.
RAID 0 in this scenario has received a huge boost recently from the
inclusion of RAID controllers on most boards marketed to enthusiasts.
Why the manufacturers did this, I've no idea, but placing RAID
controllers on the board doesn't mean one should use them any more
than including a Firewire connection means one should use Firewire
drives.
I don't call it "RAID 0 Insanity." I think "RAID 0 hysteria" is a
more apt description of this unfortunate trend, and I rather hope that
it will fade away.
However, so many of us are gadgeteers at heart that many will not be
able to resist that shiny new "go-faster thingy" on the MB, even if it
is nonsense for the vast majority of us.
Ron

 

[Paul Taylor]

Now, how in the world could RAID 1 give ANY increase in read
performance, let alone "double" the rate?? If we're talking about
theory, the latency in the RAID controller could only SLOW BOTH read
and write performance.

Software RAID-1 under Solaris (i.e. DiskSuite) uses round-robin reads
to the drives in the array; the read performance a RAID-1 on an MSI
motherboard at work (Promise RAID controller, I think) was substantially
better than with a single drive, so I assume it uses a similar arrangement.
This only applies to reads (in particular sequential reads) - writes have
to go to both drives, and would be slightly worse than a single drive due
to the RAID overheads.

 

[Paul Taylor]

I don't call it "RAID 0 Insanity." I think "RAID 0 hysteria" is a
more apt description of this unfortunate trend, and I rather hope that
it will fade away.
However, so many of us are gadgeteers at heart that many will not be
able to resist that shiny new "go-faster thingy" on the MB, even if it
is nonsense for the vast majority of us.

I think you're reading a lot into my suggestion, Ron. I don't use RAID 0,
and don't intend to.

Since John was buying two drives - which can be set up in either RAID 0
or RAID 1 (and 0+1 on some controllers) and was asking what the best setup
would be, it makes sense for him to try the different options and see what
works best for him.

 

[Ron Reaugh]

Ah - thanks Paul. I've down loaded the manual which doesn't make that
clear.

I am currently churning on what to do. On my present #1PC, I have C: and
D:, use C: for programs and D: for data only. I also Ghost C: to D: each
week and also Ghost my Laptop C: to D: too.

I would like to go for RAID-0, but have the problem of data backup unless
I buy another PATA drive, say. RAID-0+1 seems to need too many drives!
What would you advise?

RAID 1 does NOT take the place of backup. RAID 0 is fast but anti-reliable.
Using D: as an independent drive(JBOD) and then putting Ghost images is a
fair kind of backup. Much better would be to put D: drive into a removable
shock-mount tray like KingWin KF-83 (~$30) and turn it off and better yet
keep it in the car while not in use.

 

[Ron Reaugh]

I haven't tried any RAID configurations on the A8V - I only have one drive.
:-/

Based on an MSI Pentium 4 system at work that's running RedHat 9 on a pair
of mirrored disks, RAID-1 (mirroring) should give you nearly double the
read performance

No, that's only in heavily multitasked situations unlike what a usual
desktop sees.

 

[Ron Reaugh]

I think it is not so smart advicing people to run RAID0 when they only want
to hook up a couple of drives.

I believe in Storagereview as an authority and I want to direct attention to
their website.

http://www.storagereview.com/

Especially the frontpage
Quote:"Stop the RAID0 Insanity! 02 July 2004

In February of 2003, we took a brief time-out from our standard,
single-drive testing to formally address what we normally refuse to touch
with a 12-foot pole- a RAID0 array. Why? The StorageReview Discussion
community, mirroring forums around the net, burgeoned with hundreds of posts
from readers seeking advice on which RAID adapter to get and which hard
drives to stripe for their power rigs.
Simple theory, however, indicated that striping would not
significantly help the localized (as opposed to both random and sequential),
low-depth usage that dominated even highly-multitasked, single-user
scenarios. The best advice, as a result, was to avoid striping. Many
readers, however refused to believe."

The methodology in that analysis is suspect.

 

[Ron Reaugh]

Do it the way you originally planned. RAID 0 will improve performance
but NOT PERCEPTIBLY -- i.e., you'd have to use a disk benchmarking
program to document it

Nope, there's a wide range of users that see significant noticable
improvement from RAID 0 not the least of which are desktop video folks.

-- AND RAID 0 will double the chance of a HD
failure.

Nope, the chance of the failure of a RAID 0 array with two drives is about
double that of a single drive. In a RAID 0 array the chances of any drive
failing remains unchanged.

 

[Ron Reaugh]

Now, how in the world could RAID 1 give ANY increase in read
performance, let alone "double" the rate??

Independently queued multitasked reads have a choice of either member of a
RAID 1 set to go to. In such a multitasked situation a single drive might
be able to handle small record random I/O at say 200 I/Os per second. The
RAID 1 combination will approach 400 I/Os per second.

If we're talking about
theory, the latency in the RAID controller could only SLOW BOTH read
and write performance.

That's false. There is no significant latency in general for RAID and
especially not for RAID 1.

 

[Ron Reaugh]

Software RAID-1 under Solaris (i.e. DiskSuite) uses round-robin reads
to the drives in the array; the read performance a RAID-1 on an MSI
motherboard at work (Promise RAID controller, I think) was substantially
better than with a single drive, so I assume it uses a similar arrangement.
This only applies to reads (in particular sequential reads) - writes have
to go to both drives, and would be slightly worse than a single drive due
to the RAID overheads.

Well, there is no major extra write overhead for RAID 1. So expect RAID 1
writes to go about as fast as a single drive. A sequential read will go
only about as fast as a single drive HOWEVER you could run two independent
sequential reads simultaneously at that same single drive speed.

 

[Ron Reaugh]

I think you're reading a lot into my suggestion, Ron. I don't use RAID 0,
and don't intend to.

Since John was buying two drives - which can be set up in either RAID 0
or RAID 1 (and 0+1 on some controllers)

OR even better as JBOD.