Safe to Run Without SP2?

[Guest]

I've tried five different times to install SP2 (4 times via the website and 1
time using the SP2 CD). This is on a
computer that is barely a year-old and has all of the SP1 updates installed
after a complete format of the hard drive. All other updates have been
installed on the software as well (McAfee, Office, etc) and there are no
viruses or spyware present.

Towards the end of the installation process, my PC will hang for hours at
the following message:

"Windows XP Service Pack 2 Setup
-Updating your system wizard
-Finishing Installation
-Details: Running Process after Install"

The only thing that will stop the process is a hard boot of the system, and
then it trys to revert back to all of the SP1 settings. After the 5th
failure I have given up completely on SP2.

So, my question is this. If I have all of the SP1 critical updates
installed, use Zone Alarm, keep McAfee updated, use spyware/adware software,
and use a DSL router, will I be relatively secure on the internet?

Thanks for any suggestions or advice!

 

[David H. Lipman]

From: "Steve" <[email protected]>

| I've tried five different times to install SP2 (4 times via the website and 1
| time using the SP2 CD). This is on a
| computer that is barely a year-old and has all of the SP1 updates installed
| after a complete format of the hard drive. All other updates have been
| installed on the software as well (McAfee, Office, etc) and there are no
| viruses or spyware present.
|
| Towards the end of the installation process, my PC will hang for hours at
| the following message:
|
| "Windows XP Service Pack 2 Setup
| -Updating your system wizard
| -Finishing Installation
| -Details: Running Process after Install"
|
| The only thing that will stop the process is a hard boot of the system, and
| then it trys to revert back to all of the SP1 settings. After the 5th
| failure I have given up completely on SP2.
|
| So, my question is this. If I have all of the SP1 critical updates
| installed, use Zone Alarm, keep McAfee updated, use spyware/adware software,
| and use a DSL router, will I be relatively secure on the internet?
|
| Thanks for any suggestions or advice!

Sure its' safe -- *IF* you don't connect it to the Internet or don't participate on a LAN.
;-)

 

[R. McCarty]

Boot to Safe Mode & Install the Service Pack from Safe Mode.
As always - Have current backups or a System Image before
starting.

 

[Guest]

Haha...thanks, but seriously...are the security updates in SP2 that much
greater than what's in SP1? Again, I'm using SP1 with McAfee updated, Zone
Alarm updates, 3 spyware engines, and a router...shouldn't I be safe for the
most part?

 

[Guest]

Thanks...that's something I hadn't thought of. I might give that a try, but
the last (and 5th) time SP2 didn't install properly I had to rebuild my
entire system, so I'm trying to avoid a repeat of that if at all possible.
Thanks again for the advice.

 

[Linda B]

Sounds like you've got pretty much the same setup that I do -- XP with SP1,
all patched, and a NAT router. I have neither anti-virus nor anti-spyware
installed on my machine, have had it that way for many years, and have no
problems whatsoever.

With the antivirus and anti-spyware stuff installed too, don't worry about a
thing. Just keep your machine patched, and SP2 is not necessary at all.

-LB

 

[R. McCarty]

Sorry, not true at all. SP2 along with the coding changes was
recompiled to avoid issues with Buffer Overruns or overflows.
Please don't make blanket statements that might influence users
to avoid a necessary Service Pack.

 

[Yves Leclerc]

Download the network version of the SP2 install. This is the complete SP2
install package and you do not have to be on the net to install it.

 

[Guest]

Thanks Linda. I'm glad to see I'm not alone...haha. The one thing that
might work would be to upgrade to XP Pro (which already has SP2 with it), but
I don't really want to spend the money right now. I may try to install SP2
in Safe Mode but chances are I'll just keep the set up I currently have.

If I get hacked or infected and can't fix the problem, it's easy enough to
just rebuild my entire system. But my own personal opinion is that I'm safer
than most people out there (even without SP2).

 

[Linda B]

I disagree. I've never had SP2 installed on any of the hundreds of machines
I work with (not including the latest ones that are coming with it
preinstalled). As long as I'm behind a firewall and I'm fully patched, I
have never had any problems whatsoever. I'll reiterate that I don't even
have A/V or anti-spyware software installed.

I know this is not a popular viewpoint, but I'm speaking only from my own
experience: SP2 is not necessary. (*yet*, I know. At some point it will
probably *become* necessary.)

-LB

 

[Yves Leclerc]

And beforre starting the install, tunr off the anti-virus software (set auto
protect/scan to off/disabled). After the install completesm turn it back
on.

 

[David H. Lipman]

From: "Steve" <[email protected]>

| Haha...thanks, but seriously...are the security updates in SP2 that much
| greater than what's in SP1? Again, I'm using SP1 with McAfee updated, Zone
| Alarm updates, 3 spyware engines, and a router...shouldn't I be safe for the
| most part?

There are many improvements to WinXP that come with SP2 including IE/OE SP2.

As always, I suggest blocking both TCP and UDP ports 135 ~ 139 and 445 on *any* SOHO Router.

 

[R. McCarty]

That's fine - Just qualify your statements to include your disclaimer.
Working without AV/ASW seems a little reckless and causes me
to question your IT decision making. Hopefully you aren't making
global decisions like that on your desktop systems that you work
with.

 

[David H. Lipman]

From: "Linda B" <[email protected]>

| I disagree. I've never had SP2 installed on any of the hundreds of machines
| I work with (not including the latest ones that are coming with it
| preinstalled). As long as I'm behind a firewall and I'm fully patched, I
| have never had any problems whatsoever. I'll reiterate that I don't even
| have A/V or anti-spyware software installed.
|
| I know this is not a popular viewpoint, but I'm speaking only from my own
| experience: SP2 is not necessary. (*yet*, I know. At some point it will
| probably *become* necessary.)
|
| -LB

You are badly misinformed or are making uninformed judgements.

All the FireWalls in the world won't help against Social Engineering attempts which is used
to override security systems.

In addition, the more platforms you have behind a FireWall the greater the chance of
problems because the malware can get past the WAN/LAN FireWall and be on the LAN side.
Then, the FireWall will be useless.

The vast improvements that SP2 are worth the installation !

Many vulnerabilities exist in SP1 that don't exist on SP2. I am often receiving CERT
notifications that indicate what OS's are affected and often, WinXP SP2 is excluded. This
includes the Remote Administration vulnerability that I received notfication of just
yesterday.

 

[Linda B]

Yeah, I should probably clarify that the machines at work are all AV'd and
anti-spyware'd up -- working sans protection in a corporate or professional
environment is obviously not a good idea. Hardware firewall, realtime
protection, yadda yadda yadda. It's just my home machine that doesn't have
the extra software installed. I have found it to be too intrusive for my
tastes, but that's just me. I figure, at home, if anything should ever
happen and I somehow lose all my data, well, it's not going to rend the
earth asunder or anything. That's why God made backup media.

-LB

 

[Robert Moir]

That's fine - Just qualify your statements to include your disclaimer.
Working without AV/ASW seems a little reckless and causes me
to question your IT decision making.

And reckless faith in one program to magically protect me from another
program would cause me to question *your* "IT decision making".

Here is a question for you. On an unpatched machine, at exactly which point
will a virus scanner "kick in" and detect the "Slammer" worm when it attacks
the system? Has your machine been compromised or not at this point?

If you have an AV program but use your computer in an unsafe manner, you
*will* get hacked. That is why even AV companies will tell you to use "safe
computing" methods as well as their scanner. Go and ask in an independant
newsgroup such as alt.comp.virus if you don't believe me.

If you are religious about safe computing practices however it is possible
to run without a virus scanner, firewall, etc, and *never* get hacked. I
know because I've done it. It probably isn't advisable as a general rule of
thumb, but it _is_ quite possible.

Linda is making a fair point. Not one i'm 100% sure I agree with, but
neither is it as unreasonable as you seem to think.

--

 

[Robert Moir]

Thanks Linda. I'm glad to see I'm not alone...haha. The one thing
that might work would be to upgrade to XP Pro (which already has SP2
with it), but I don't really want to spend the money right now. I
may try to install SP2 in Safe Mode but chances are I'll just keep
the set up I currently have.

If I get hacked or infected and can't fix the problem, it's easy
enough to just rebuild my entire system. But my own personal opinion
is that I'm safer than most people out there (even without SP2).

If - as you say - you repeatedly reinstall SP2, and even rebuilt your
machine, but *still* have problems, it seems fairly clear that something
installed on your computer is causing the problems with SP2 due to a
compatability issue. Find this somehow and I'm sure you'd be able to upgrade
smoothly should you choose to do so.


--

 

[R. McCarty]

No it's not unreasonable, But numerous times she has mentioned in
postings that she works in an IT environment. She did clarify that the
no AV/ASW was on her personal home machine. My comments were
keyed to the inference that her 100's of PCs were without the software,
that's all. But your points are well made.

 

[Rock]

Thanks...that's something I hadn't thought of. I might give that a try, but
the last (and 5th) time SP2 didn't install properly I had to rebuild my
entire system, so I'm trying to avoid a repeat of that if at all possible.
Thanks again for the advice.

Steve, consider investing in a disk imaging program such as Norton
Ghost, Acronis True Image or BootItNG. This will make a compressed
image of the drive. Save this to another drive, or even better, to an
external hard drive or DVD. Then if the system gets hosed, for whatever
reason, just reinstall the image. It is good insurance.

 

[Steve N.]

Download the network version of the SP2 install. This is the complete SP2
install package and you do not have to be on the net to install it.

This is the same as the SP2 CD Yves, and he said he already used that.

Steve N.