Running single channel memory on a dual channel board: Performancehit

[P Settli]

I originally posted this question to the laptop group but couldn't get
a satisfactory answer to my question so I'm posting it here because I've
found this group to be very knowledgeable and helpful.

I bought a Toshiba M115 Dual Core laptop, running at 533mhz, with 512
(two 256 meg bricks) of memory running in dual channel. It came with
with the Win XP Media Center OS. I'm thinking of upgrading the memory to
either 1 gig or maybe even two gigs --which is very expensive given that
I payed $750.00 for the laptop (bought it in the USA, brought it back to
Norway). Checking the Crucial site, two matched pairs of 512 meg bricks
costs $151.99, whereas two matched 1 gig bricks costs $278.00 My
question is: how much of a performance hit will I take if I decide to
buy a a 1 gig brick and replace that for one of the 256 bricks -and
maybe buy another 1 gig brick later, if I feel like I need it. I
understand that doing so means that I'll be running single channel...but
will I notice a performance hit? I'm not a gamer but I do have Photoshop
installed on it, and Photoshop will use all the memory it can get.
Off topic but kind of related, the laptop came with a ton of software
most of which I've deleted but the Task Manager shows that it's running
60 some processes, taking up around 300 megs of memory. Many of the
descriptions of the processes in the Task Manager are sort of cryptic,
meaning that I have to Google each process to see what it does, and I've
frankly been to lazy to do it at this point. Still, it would be nice to
free up 100 megs or so.


--PS

 

[Yousuf Khan]

I bought a Toshiba M115 Dual Core laptop, running at 533mhz, with 512
(two 256 meg bricks) of memory running in dual channel. It came with
with the Win XP Media Center OS. I'm thinking of upgrading the memory to
either 1 gig or maybe even two gigs --which is very expensive given that
I payed $750.00 for the laptop (bought it in the USA, brought it back to
Norway). Checking the Crucial site, two matched pairs of 512 meg bricks
costs $151.99, whereas two matched 1 gig bricks costs $278.00 My
question is: how much of a performance hit will I take if I decide to
buy a a 1 gig brick and replace that for one of the 256 bricks -and
maybe buy another 1 gig brick later, if I feel like I need it. I
understand that doing so means that I'll be running single channel...but
will I notice a performance hit? I'm not a gamer but I do have Photoshop
installed on it, and Photoshop will use all the memory it can get.

I doubt there's going to be much that's noticeable, except in
benchmarks. I don't know if you'll be able to mix and match the 256M &
the 1G modules together though, regardless of whether you want to settle
with single-channel.

Off topic but kind of related, the laptop came with a ton of software
most of which I've deleted but the Task Manager shows that it's running
60 some processes, taking up around 300 megs of memory. Many of the
descriptions of the processes in the Task Manager are sort of cryptic,
meaning that I have to Google each process to see what it does, and I've
frankly been to lazy to do it at this point. Still, it would be nice to
free up 100 megs or so.

That's a typical XP install these days.

If you're really into optimization then you can try Black Viper's
Windows XP Tweak site. It's no longer being updated, but it's been
mirrored statically.

Black Viper's Windows Xp Services Configuration - BestTechie Forums
http://www.besttechie.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=3007

Yousuf Khan

 

[P Settli]

Yousuf Khan wrote:

[cut]

Thanks for the reply.

I doubt there's going to be much that's noticeable, except in
benchmarks. I don't know if you'll be able to mix and match the 256M &
the 1G modules together though, regardless of whether you want to settle
with single-channel.

This was new to me. I just assumed that it would run in single channel
mode with the 256meg and the 1 gig modules.

That's a typical XP install these days.

If you're really into optimization then you can try Black Viper's
Windows XP Tweak site. It's no longer being updated, but it's been
mirrored statically.

Black Viper's Windows Xp Services Configuration - BestTechie Forums
http://www.besttechie.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=3007

I'm familiar with Black Viper and used his Windows Services guide to set
up my still (so-so) adequate Athlon 1.33 gig desktop (with one gig of
memory and a 32meg AGP graphics card). I got the running services down
to twenty something.
The problem with the services running now is that in addition to the
Windows ones, there's also the Toshiba services, Intel services, Realtek
services, etc. Last night I thought I'd give it another shot and after
Googling a bit came upon:
http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/startups/

I opened Task Manager and started working away --but gave up after about
an hour- with the pretense that my time was more valuable than the time
it would take to free up the 100 meg.
OTOH, if I was stupid enough to run out tomorrow and buy a fresh copy of
WinXP Home, and install it, the laptop would run...wouldn't it?

Oh yes, one last point: I was sort of maybe, kind of thinking of
installing Rome:Total War on it, a game that came out in 2004. From a
reply I got a Norwegian newsgroup, I'd definitely have run the laptop in
dual channel mode to have even a chance of being able to play the game
and that might even be problematic. I looked up the Intel game
compatibility page and Rome:Total War wasn't listed.
http://www.intel.com/support/graphics/intel945gm/sb/CS-021400.htm

Thanks again for the reply.

--PS

 

[Yousuf Khan]

This was new to me. I just assumed that it would run in single channel
mode with the 256meg and the 1 gig modules.

I could be wrong, but it seems to me when you put one module into one of
the slots, then it automatically assumes a 64-bit path between memory
and memory controller (i.e. single-channel). When you put two modules
in, it automatically assumes a 128-bit path (i.e. dual-channel). Now
unless both modules are as large as each other it's not going to have a
clearly defined 128-bit channel available all of the way through.

OTOH, if I was stupid enough to run out tomorrow and buy a fresh copy of
WinXP Home, and install it, the laptop would run...wouldn't it?

You're probably still going to have to install of the same drivers all
over again. And some customized utilities that are included with your
Toshiba won't be available on the generic XP Home cd anyways.

Oh yes, one last point: I was sort of maybe, kind of thinking of
installing Rome:Total War on it, a game that came out in 2004. From a
reply I got a Norwegian newsgroup, I'd definitely have run the laptop in
dual channel mode to have even a chance of being able to play the game
and that might even be problematic. I looked up the Intel game
compatibility page and Rome:Total War wasn't listed.
http://www.intel.com/support/graphics/intel945gm/sb/CS-021400.htm

I'd say this is a lost cause, if all you have is Intel graphics. At
least with an AMD-based laptop, you're likely guaranteed either an ATI
or Nvidia graphics chipset (whether it's an IGP or discrete GPU). ATI or
Nvidia would have proper DirectX9+ compliant hardware.

I ran a game called Black & White 2 which is a role-player too. Even
role-players need full 3D hardware these days to play games. Fortunately
my Turion laptop could play it, unfortunately, despite all of the
requisite hardware being available, it still doesn't guarantee that it's
going to run fast!

Yousuf Khan

 

[George Macdonald]

Yousuf Khan wrote:

[cut]

Thanks for the reply.

I doubt there's going to be much that's noticeable, except in
benchmarks. I don't know if you'll be able to mix and match the 256M &
the 1G modules together though, regardless of whether you want to settle
with single-channel.

This was new to me. I just assumed that it would run in single channel
mode with the 256meg and the 1 gig modules.

Yes, you can do that... what Intel calls Dual Channel Asymmetric Mode -
addresses run up through the end of Channel A and continue on Channel B.

I'm familiar with Black Viper and used his Windows Services guide to set
up my still (so-so) adequate Athlon 1.33 gig desktop (with one gig of
memory and a 32meg AGP graphics card). I got the running services down
to twenty something.
The problem with the services running now is that in addition to the
Windows ones, there's also the Toshiba services, Intel services, Realtek
services, etc. Last night I thought I'd give it another shot and after
Googling a bit came upon:
http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/startups/

I opened Task Manager and started working away --but gave up after about
an hour- with the pretense that my time was more valuable than the time
it would take to free up the 100 meg.

As Yousuf says, it's typical for WinXP and especially notebook comouters
which tend to have specialized devices. What is annoying is all the "call
home" crap which is supposed to be "checking for updates"... *but* since it
was a "free" OEM copy of the software, you're not actually entitled to any
updates anyway, e.g. Sonic's RecordNow & DLA. I'd recommend Process
Explorer from www.sysinternals.com to see what's actually running and may
provide enough info to avoid having to Google each process for its purpose.

OTOH, if I was stupid enough to run out tomorrow and buy a fresh copy of
WinXP Home, and install it, the laptop would run...wouldn't it?

You probably would not have all your devices, e.g. drivers and control
software for touchpad mouse, power management, modem etc.

 

[P Settli]

Yousuf Khan wrote:

[cut]

Thanks for the reply.

I doubt there's going to be much that's noticeable, except in
benchmarks. I don't know if you'll be able to mix and match the 256M &
the 1G modules together though, regardless of whether you want to settle
with single-channel.

This was new to me. I just assumed that it would run in single channel
mode with the 256meg and the 1 gig modules.

Yes, you can do that... what Intel calls Dual Channel Asymmetric Mode -
addresses run up through the end of Channel A and continue on Channel B.

I opened up the memory module compartment on the laptop, expecting to
find two 256 meg chips. Intead - I found that it came with a single 512
meg chip, which means it's been running in single channel mode all
along. I could have sworn it came with two 256 meg chips. Why would
Toshiba put a single memory chip in dual channel board?
Of course it does make it a whole lot cheaper to upgrade to 1 gig and
have it run in dual channel - but still?

(snip)

As Yousuf says, it's typical for WinXP and especially notebook comouters
which tend to have specialized devices. What is annoying is all the "call
home" crap which is supposed to be "checking for updates"... *but* since it
was a "free" OEM copy of the software, you're not actually entitled to any
updates anyway, e.g. Sonic's RecordNow & DLA. I'd recommend Process
Explorer from www.sysinternals.com to see what's actually running and may
provide enough info to avoid having to Google each process for its purpose.

Right- I deleted Real Audio and downloaded Real Alternative, to cite one
example. I've downloaded Processor Explorer and am checking it out. Thanks.

You probably would not have all your devices, e.g. drivers and control
software for touchpad mouse, power management, modem etc.

I did that once already. I disabled the Synaptic touchpad driver and had
to enable it again with my external mouse. It made me real gun shy about
disabling stuff.

Idiot Watch: I am probably the only person reading this group who didn't
know that the Core Duo processor wasn't a 64 bit processor (I've been
sleeping in class- I grow old, I grow old, I wear the bottoms of my
trousers rolled). I thought I was getting a real deal - a dual core 64
bit laptop for $750 minus a $150 rebate (which I've yet to see and have
every reason to believe will never see). That said, it's a decent
laptop, with more than enough processor power, suitable for my needs.
After I install another 512 megs of ram and delete/disable some more of
the crap it'll be even better. Shame about the 950 Graphic Accelerator
and 3D though.

Thanks George and Yousuf for your replies.

--PS

 

[David Kanter]

I opened up the memory module compartment on the laptop, expecting to
find two 256 meg chips. Intead - I found that it came with a single 512
meg chip, which means it's been running in single channel mode all
along. I could have sworn it came with two 256 meg chips. Why would
Toshiba put a single memory chip in dual channel board?

Cheap, cheap, cheap : )

Of course it does make it a whole lot cheaper to upgrade to 1 gig and
have it run in dual channel - but still?

Right- I deleted Real Audio and downloaded Real Alternative, to cite one
example. I've downloaded Processor Explorer and am checking it out. Thanks.

I did that once already. I disabled the Synaptic touchpad driver and had
to enable it again with my external mouse. It made me real gun shy about
disabling stuff.

That's one of the problems with laptops; it's hard to say what is
important, what is convenient and what is essential.

Idiot Watch: I am probably the only person reading this group who didn't
know that the Core Duo processor wasn't a 64 bit processor (I've been
sleeping in class- I grow old, I grow old, I wear the bottoms of my
trousers rolled). I thought I was getting a real deal - a dual core 64
bit laptop for $750 minus a $150 rebate (which I've yet to see and have
every reason to believe will never see). That said, it's a decent
laptop, with more than enough processor power, suitable for my needs.
After I install another 512 megs of ram and delete/disable some more of
the crap it'll be even better. Shame about the 950 Graphic Accelerator
and 3D though.

I wouldn't worry about 64 versus 32 bit...you don't have any
applications that really require it. You might want to try and
install Rome anyway once you have 1GB. The battle scenes won't be
great, but I usually spend much more time on the overland map, which
really isn't 3D.

DK

 

[George Macdonald]

Yousuf Khan wrote:

[cut]

Thanks for the reply.


I doubt there's going to be much that's noticeable, except in
benchmarks. I don't know if you'll be able to mix and match the 256M &
the 1G modules together though, regardless of whether you want to settle
with single-channel.
This was new to me. I just assumed that it would run in single channel
mode with the 256meg and the 1 gig modules.

Yes, you can do that... what Intel calls Dual Channel Asymmetric Mode -
addresses run up through the end of Channel A and continue on Channel B.

I opened up the memory module compartment on the laptop, expecting to
find two 256 meg chips. Intead - I found that it came with a single 512
meg chip, which means it's been running in single channel mode all
along. I could have sworn it came with two 256 meg chips. Why would
Toshiba put a single memory chip in dual channel board?
Of course it does make it a whole lot cheaper to upgrade to 1 gig and
have it run in dual channel - but still?

That was always the best option -- a single SO-DIMM with one empty for
upgrade -- and was often the more expensive configuration if a choice was
available. The dual channel thingy has muddied that up though; in your
case it probably boiled down to what was most available in the parts
inventory on the day they built the system.

(snip)


Right- I deleted Real Audio and downloaded Real Alternative, to cite one
example. I've downloaded Processor Explorer and am checking it out. Thanks.


I did that once already. I disabled the Synaptic touchpad driver and had
to enable it again with my external mouse. It made me real gun shy about
disabling stuff.

Idiot Watch: I am probably the only person reading this group who didn't
know that the Core Duo processor wasn't a 64 bit processor (I've been
sleeping in class- I grow old, I grow old, I wear the bottoms of my
trousers rolled). I thought I was getting a real deal - a dual core 64
bit laptop for $750 minus a $150 rebate (which I've yet to see and have
every reason to believe will never see). That said, it's a decent
laptop, with more than enough processor power, suitable for my needs.
After I install another 512 megs of ram and delete/disable some more of
the crap it'll be even better. Shame about the 950 Graphic Accelerator
and 3D though.

Still sounds like a decent deal all the same and I doubt you're ever going
to really fret about the lack of 64-bit. In 32-bit mode, the reports I'm
seeing are that the mobile C2D does not gain as much as the desktop version
in benchmark tests over previous systems.