replacing MOBO on Dell Dimension 4600

[weekendwarrior]

I possibly have a defective MOBO. Strange behavior....Computer woul
not turn on at all. Dell walk through chat had me remove al
internals ie: drives, memory, pci, agp, etc. After pluging back int
wall outlet and waiting a few minutes the system seemed to try an
turn on by itself. I reconnected all internals but would not restart
Removed all but memory and HDD. When i plugged it back into the wal
socket it immediatly wanted to start by itself.....fans were turnin
on and off in a cycle. I then powerd on and the computer started x
after warning no floppy and no optical drive present. The compute
was loaded with spyware. I installed CA's eTrust EZ Armor an
removed over 1000 suspicous files many were duplicates. Afte
reinstalling all internals, I once again plugged into wall outlet an
after a minute or so the unit did seem to want to power on by itsel
only once. I have to wait for this to happen before i can power th
unit on (nothing happens when hitting the power switch unitl thi
"auto power cycle happens"

The pc seems to behave normal except when power is lost to the unit i
always need to wait a minute before it will accept input from th
power switch

Does this seem like a defective MOBO? Somone else tried a new powe
supply with no change in behavior

Second question is what mobo to buy? Dell wants $150-$175 for
replacement which is not in stock.

Here is the dell config

http://support.dell.com/support/top...s_info/en/details?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs&~tab=

So far all i know i need is a socket 478 for the pentium 4 2.4gh
processor. Also need floppy drive support, AGP for video, pci fo
sound and modem

Shall i stick with the intel chipset? Does it matter

I checked at tiger direct i would like to get a MOBO without vide
since I have an agp card. Here is a link of there 478 MOBO's.
Looking for an inexpensive card without making a downgrade. All hel
is appreciated and just to let you all know I consider myself
newbie

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/category/category_slc.asp
CatId=18

Thanks in advance,
Eri

 

[Pen]

I possibly have a defective MOBO. Strange behavior....Computer would
not turn on at all. Dell walk through chat had me remove all
internals ie: drives, memory, pci, agp, etc. After pluging back into
wall outlet and waiting a few minutes the system seemed to try and
turn on by itself. I reconnected all internals but would not restart.
Removed all but memory and HDD. When i plugged it back into the wall
socket it immediatly wanted to start by itself.....fans were turning
on and off in a cycle. I then powerd on and the computer started xp
after warning no floppy and no optical drive present. The computer
was loaded with spyware. I installed CA's eTrust EZ Armor and
removed over 1000 suspicous files many were duplicates. After
reinstalling all internals, I once again plugged into wall outlet and
after a minute or so the unit did seem to want to power on by itself
only once. I have to wait for this to happen before i can power the
unit on (nothing happens when hitting the power switch unitl this
"auto power cycle happens")

The pc seems to behave normal except when power is lost to the unit it
always need to wait a minute before it will accept input from the
power switch.

Does this seem like a defective MOBO? Somone else tried a new power
supply with no change in behavior.

Second question is what mobo to buy? Dell wants $150-$175 for a
replacement which is not in stock.

Here is the dell config.

http://support.dell.com/support/top..._info/en/details?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs&~tab=2


So far all i know i need is a socket 478 for the pentium 4 2.4ghz
processor. Also need floppy drive support, AGP for video, pci for
sound and modem.

Shall i stick with the intel chipset? Does it matter?

I checked at tiger direct i would like to get a MOBO without video
since I have an agp card. Here is a link of there 478 MOBO's.
Looking for an inexpensive card without making a downgrade. All help
is appreciated and just to let you all know I consider myself a
newbie.

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/category/category_slc.asp?
CatId=182

Thanks in advance,
Eric

Attempting to use Dell cases with non Dell mobos is not a good idea for
the inexperienced. Dell used a non standard front panel hookup for
the front panel in your machine. Frankly your problems seem to be
not related to the mobo, but rather to the power supply or one of the
drives.

 

[Jan Alter]

Again, as the previous poster (Pen) suggested this sounds like a PS problem
rather than a mb. Additionally, I would be disconnecting all hdd, floppy,
CD-ROM/DVD-ROM, and only have video connected to see if it will start, as
any peripheral could be causing the non-start problem as well. I would be
suspect at even using another standard PS unit to check the Dell out as I
don't believe Dell uses standard ATX power supplies; the connectors and or
voltages may be different. This could be throwing the equation off that
someone substituted another PS for yours and it still wouldn't start.

 

[kony]

I possibly have a defective MOBO. Strange behavior....Computer would
not turn on at all. Dell walk through chat had me remove all
internals ie: drives, memory, pci, agp, etc. After pluging back into
wall outlet and waiting a few minutes the system seemed to try and
turn on by itself. I reconnected all internals but would not restart.
Removed all but memory and HDD.

remove all but 1 memory module, CPU, and video (if not
integrated video). I usually write heatsink/fan too but
that should be obvious and the fan is probably the rear
exhaust fan which should also be left plugged in/running
unless you had reason to believe it was shorting out (which
is very rare).

When i plugged it back into the wall
socket it immediatly wanted to start by itself.....fans were turning
on and off in a cycle. I then powerd on and the computer started xp
after warning no floppy and no optical drive present. The computer
was loaded with spyware.

There is no need to boot windows yet. Just boot to the bios
menus, and if there are system health reports, check those.
If it remains functional to this point, disconnect power and
reconnect the floppy drive (unless it will boot to USB
drives then...) put something like memtest86+ on the drive
and run that for awhile.

I installed CA's eTrust EZ Armor and
removed over 1000 suspicous files many were duplicates.

Now I'm a bit confused, the system worked well enough to
boot windows complete, install software, run the software
and remove some? Was there anything else noteworthy about
the hardware, not OS, or did it seem to be fully operational
(at least to the extent of what was still connected?

After
reinstalling all internals,

if it had been working, reinstall only a few things at a
time trying to determine if any one is problematic. If you
have a multimeter, also measure the PSU voltage after adding
each thing, and particularly after a problem resurfaces.

I once again plugged into wall outlet and
after a minute or so the unit did seem to want to power on by itself
only once. I have to wait for this to happen before i can power the
unit on (nothing happens when hitting the power switch unitl this
"auto power cycle happens")

That sounds a bit like the power supply but below you
mention trying another PSU... was the alternate PSU known
adequate for the system and in good working order?

The pc seems to behave normal except when power is lost to the unit it
always need to wait a minute before it will accept input from the
power switch.

You might check and ask in a Dell forum like this one, since
OEM systems can have proprietary quirks from time to time.
http://forums.us.dell.com/supportforums/board/message?board.id=dim_other&message.id=210341

Does this seem like a defective MOBO? Somone else tried a new power
supply with no change in behavior.

Could be motherboard but since it had booted and ran to
remove all those files, I'd suspect some other part, maybe
power supply. It could easily be that you won't be able to
(or at least it isn't worth the effort to) try to salvage
the current windows installation rather than copying off
valuable files and doing a clean install of the OS /apps.

Second question is what mobo to buy? Dell wants $150-$175 for a
replacement which is not in stock.

What do you want? Reuse current CPU, memory, etc, or is it
time for an upgrade? Which replacement PSU do you have, can
you use it again or what is the rating of the original as
this bears on whether newer parts would be supported.

I assume the rear ports are standard and it uses a
removeable I/O plate in the rear. If this is the case then
many mATX motherboards may fit but measure the maximum case
internal width, some mATX boards are full-width and some are
not. I'm sure I've seen the boards in a 4600 but after a
while they all start to look the same. IIRC, it is mostly
standardized, including the power supply so you might check
someplace that has good pictures of potential replacement
motherboards like http://www.newegg.com , and of course
research whether a board supports your CPU.

Here is the dell config.

http://support.dell.com/support/top..._info/en/details?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs&~tab=2

Link asks for the system tag, which we don't have but is on
a sticker on the (side?) of the case.

So far all i know i need is a socket 478 for the pentium 4 2.4ghz
processor. Also need floppy drive support, AGP for video, pci for
sound and modem.

Most will have these features.

Shall i stick with the intel chipset? Does it matter?

yes/no/maybe, it doesn't really matter if you just want to
get system running again at least cost, but I'd generally
tend to pick a newer rather than older board as in any era
of CPU socket, boards tend to get better, and fuller
featured.

I checked at tiger direct

Avoid Tiger, shady business with more than their share of
dissatisfied customers and BBB complaints.

i would like to get a MOBO without video
since I have an agp card.

Doesn't matter, so long as it has the AGP slot. "Some"
boards might have an additional PCI slot if the AGP slot
weren't there, but others will not, you just don't gain
anything then by not having the integrated video.

Here is a link of there 478 MOBO's.
Looking for an inexpensive card without making a downgrade. All help
is appreciated and just to let you all know I consider myself a
newbie.

http://www.dontshophere.com/applications/category/category_slc.asp?
CatId=182

Here's a better link, use the Advanced Category Search and
input your requirements,
http://www.newegg.com/ProductSort/SubCategory.asp?SubCategory=280
once you have a model under consideration, pricematch
elsewhere if it's worth the time.

 

[DaveW]

Dell usus PROPRIETARY designed motherboards with unusal socket fittings. I
believe you will find that you can ONLY use a Dell designed motherboard.
Standard motherboards will not fit or work.

 

[Pen]

Dell usus PROPRIETARY designed motherboards with unusal socket fittings.
I believe you will find that you can ONLY use a Dell designed motherboard.
Standard motherboards will not fit or work.

That hasn't been true for several years except for the front panel
connector,
which is easily dealt with by experienced people.

 

[weekendwarrior]

here is an update

computer will not turn on.

computer will turn on if i use the "Paper clip-trick"
(I use a paperclip to jump green wire and black wire on twenty pin
connector on MOBO, Hold it until XP welcome screen than i can remove
it)

this will start the computer and it operates correctly. If I shut
down I will need to repeat the process to start again. But computer
will do a restart via start menu

Does this mean the power supply is good?
Does this mean the MOBO is Bad?

thanks for the help.

 

[weekendwarrior]

here is an update

computer will not turn on.

computer will turn on if i use the "Paper clip-trick"
(I use a paperclip to jump green wire and black wire on twenty pin
connector on MOBO, Hold it until XP welcome screen than i can remove
it)

this will start the computer and it operates correctly. If I shut
down I will need to repeat the process to start again. But computer
will do a restart via start menu

Does this mean the power supply is good?
Does this mean the MOBO is Bad?

thanks for the help.

 

[kony]

here is an update

computer will not turn on.

computer will turn on if i use the "Paper clip-trick"
(I use a paperclip to jump green wire and black wire on twenty pin
connector on MOBO, Hold it until XP welcome screen than i can remove
it)

this will start the computer and it operates correctly. If I shut
down I will need to repeat the process to start again. But computer
will do a restart via start menu

Does this mean the power supply is good?
Does this mean the MOBO is Bad?

thanks for the help.

Unplug the case power (and reset, if it has one) button from
the motherboard pin header and see if it will turn on and
stay on by only momentarily shorting the motherboard
power-on pins together with a metallic object (like the tip
of a screwdriver or that paperclip).

 

[weekendwarrior]

Here is an update hope somone can help.

PC will not power on, unless I do the "Paper clip
trick"...(insert paper clip on the mobo connector green wire and
black wire. hold it there until XP welcome screen than i can remove
it)

I use this method to power up...the system will operate with no
problem. I can do a restart
When I try to shutdown or standby the system will automatically turn
back on after a couple of seconds.

Further I notice if I shut down I can remove the 110v plug. When I
plug the pc back into the 110v the system fan, Hard Drive, and power
button will cycle like it want to turn on by itself.....but I have to
hit the power button for it to turn on.

I also notice the longer I wait before plugging back in the longer the
delay before the system will start its strange cycle of fan on/off.
If I wait too long (more than 10-15 minutes) the system wont cycle
and I will have to do the paperclip trick again

Does the paper clip trick verify the power supply is ok?...or is there
more to it?

 

[weekendwarrior]

Here is an update hope somone can help.

PC will not power on, unless I do the "Paper clip
trick"...(insert paper clip on the mobo connector green wire and
black wire. hold it there until XP welcome screen than i can remove
it)

I use this method to power up...the system will operate with no
problem. I can do a restart
When I try to shutdown or standby the system will automatically turn
back on after a couple of seconds.

Further I notice if I shut down I can remove the 110v plug. When I
plug the pc back into the 110v the system fan, Hard Drive, and power
button will cycle like it want to turn on by itself.....but I have to
hit the power button for it to turn on.

I also notice the longer I wait before plugging back in the longer the
delay before the system will start its strange cycle of fan on/off.
If I wait too long (more than 10-15 minutes) the system wont cycle
and I will have to do the paperclip trick again

Does the paper clip trick verify the power supply is ok?...or is there
more to it?

 

[weekendwarrior]

Here is an update hope somone can help.

PC will not power on, unless I do the "Paper clip
trick"...(insert paper clip on the mobo connector green wire and
black wire. hold it there until XP welcome screen than i can remove
it)

I use this method to power up...the system will operate with no
problem. I can do a restart
When I try to shutdown or standby the system will automatically turn
back on after a couple of seconds.

Further I notice if I shut down I can remove the 110v plug. When I
plug the pc back into the 110v the system fan, Hard Drive, and power
button will cycle like it want to turn on by itself.....but I have to
hit the power button for it to turn on.

I also notice the longer I wait before plugging back in the longer the
delay before the system will start its strange cycle of fan on/off.
If I wait too long (more than 10-15 minutes) the system wont cycle
and I will have to do the paperclip trick again

Does the paper clip trick verify the power supply is ok?...or is there
more to it?

 

[kony]

Here is an update hope somone can help.

PC will not power on, unless I do the "Paper clip
trick"...(insert paper clip on the mobo connector green wire and
black wire. hold it there until XP welcome screen than i can remove
it)

I use this method to power up...the system will operate with no
problem. I can do a restart
When I try to shutdown or standby the system will automatically turn
back on after a couple of seconds.

Use a multimeter and check PSU voltages and the power switch
for intermittent or shorted state when pressed and/or
released.

Further I notice if I shut down I can remove the 110v plug. When I
plug the pc back into the 110v the system fan, Hard Drive, and power
button will cycle like it want to turn on by itself.....but I have to
hit the power button for it to turn on.

Ignore this, some boards will do it without the other
problem you see.

I also notice the longer I wait before plugging back in the longer the
delay before the system will start its strange cycle of fan on/off.
If I wait too long (more than 10-15 minutes) the system wont cycle
and I will have to do the paperclip trick again

This can also be ignored.

Does the paper clip trick verify the power supply is ok?...or is there
more to it?

No, it verifies that it does what it does.

It is not a proof of anything.

You need to start out from the beginning again and clearly
describe all major components and concisely but completely
describe exact situations, not vague things like "paper clip
trick", which leave us guessing exactly what is going on.
Remember that we cannot see this system while you are trying
these things, knowing what is happening depends on how well
you relay the info.

Without a good idea of the entire situation, I could
speculate that your PSU might have the switch pulled into
the wrong pins or other pins aren't right- and that you
should unplug all case connectors from the motherboard and
only short the Power-on pin to the adjacent ground pin,
momentarily, to see if that causes proper operation.

If that does not, but if keeping the power-on pin shorted to
the ground pin does keep the board running (and you are SURE
you have the correct two pins as shown in the motherboard
manual), it would tend to suggest a motherboard problem, or
maybe (less likey, doubtful but theoretically possible) a
PSU defect.

Has this board or PSU been proven to work properly with any
other parts/system? In other words, any combo except this
PSU with this motherboard?

 

[weekendwarrior]

Kony,

Nothing happens when I jump the power on pins.

any other suggestions?

Sorry for the muliple posts. They didn't seem to be going through.

eric

 

[kony]

Kony,

Nothing happens when I jump the power on pins.

any other suggestions?

Sorry for the muliple posts. They didn't seem to be going through.

eric

Unplug the PSU from everything except one hard drive.
Plug it back into AC power, and use the paper clip to short
the PS-On pin (usually #14) to a ground pin.

If this turns the PSU and drive on, next measure voltages
with a multimeter. If voltages are ok, I suspect the
motherboard. If not, the PSU, though it might be the PSU
either way.

 

[weekendwarrior]

I Replaced PSU myself and the system works great..
I wish there were a better way to test the psu rather than replacing.

As the previous attempt would prove you must at least replace with a
KNOWN GOOD UNIT not just a new unit

Thanks to all