Registry Cleaning?

[db]

you're still barking up my tree

however your record is not very
good with me because you don't
know how to do your homework.

you really don't have an argument
against my rationale for keeping the
registry tuned up.

instead argue with the handful
of software developers at
microsoft.

you can start by bulleting the
issues found here:

http://onecare.live.com/site/en-US/article/registry_cleaner_why.htm

then you can protest the use
of the registry cleaner that is
utilized here:

http://onecare.live.com/site/en-US/center/whatsnew.htm

then let us know if microsoft
agrees with you and I'll be happy
to change my tune.


--
db·´¯`·...¸><)))º>
DatabaseBen, Retired Professional
- Systems Analyst
- Database Developer
- Accountancy
- Veteran of the Armed Forces
- @Hotmail.com
- nntp Postologist
~ "share the nirvana" - dbZen

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[db]

the operating system is one giant
database

and we are sure that you maintain
your file and disk system like every
one else.

----------------

also, the registry is a database and
not just a look up table.

the o.s. reads and writes to it
constantly.

so it is unclear what you got the
erroneous notion, as it didn't
come from microsoft.

---------------

the conclusion is that
database's need to be maintained.

bad registry keys and orphaned
registry keys and keys pointing
to malware

is like having bad entries in your
credit report/database.

surely, you don't think that your
credit report is merely a look up
table.


--
db·´¯`·...¸><)))º>
DatabaseBen, Retired Professional
- Systems Analyst
- Database Developer
- Accountancy
- Veteran of the Armed Forces
- @Hotmail.com
- nntp Postologist
~ "share the nirvana" - dbZen

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[db]

oh pleazzzze,

most of us have more experience
than you brag to have and we
know exactly what we do and
why we do it.


--
db·´¯`·...¸><)))º>
DatabaseBen, Retired Professional
- Systems Analyst
- Database Developer
- Accountancy
- Veteran of the Armed Forces
- @Hotmail.com
- nntp Postologist
~ "share the nirvana" - dbZen

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

I am reading in this NG and all over the internet that cleaning the
registry is a no, no. I am also informed that the registry can/does get all
messed up/cluttered with all sorts of stuff, from removed programs, old
pointers, etc, over time.

So what/how do you fix this if you shouldn't use a registry cleaner???

You don't (or at least shouldn't) fix it. First, note that it doesn't
get "*all* messed up/cluttered," it gets only slightly cluttered, and
not messed up at all. Having the few unused entries doesn't hurt you,

 

[ray]

Windows 7 is a rewrite of most of the major components. The look and
feel are the same and that's about it.

Uh-huh. And you also believe in the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy.

 

[Bruce Chambers]

you can start by bulleting the
issues found here:

http://onecare.live.com/site/en-US/article/registry_cleaner_why.htm

then you can protest the use
of the registry cleaner that is
utilized here:

http://onecare.live.com/site/en-US/center/whatsnew.htm

Once again, you've proven my point about how absolutely incapable of
critical thought you are. What makes you think that marketing drivel
constitutes scientific evidence?


Oh, and you did know that Microsoft has discontinued Live OneCare,
didn't as it proved worthless?


--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:


http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/555375

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. ~Benjamin Franklin

Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. ~Bertrand Russell

The philosopher has never killed any priests, whereas the priest has
killed a great many philosophers.
~ Denis Diderot

 

[Bruce Chambers]

the operating system is one giant
database

Not, it's not. You'd think someone making such now clearly bogus
claims in his signature would know at least that much.

also, the registry is a database and
not just a look up table.

Exactly. The registry is an *indexed* database, which is why
"cleaning" it is an exercise in futility.

the o.s. reads and writes to it
constantly.

Frequently, yes. Constantly, no.


Other nonsensical drivel snipped.
--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:


http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/555375

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. ~Benjamin Franklin

Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. ~Bertrand Russell

The philosopher has never killed any priests, whereas the priest has
killed a great many philosophers.
~ Denis Diderot

 

[Artreid]

Had no idea one question could spark such heated debate

Ironically, I still do not have a definitive answer to my original question
and maybe it should be left to personal choice dependent on how comfortable
one feels with cleaners.

I've have used registry cleaners for about a year now (on a weekly basis)
and have experienced one negative encounter. A system restore was required
(Windows System/Restore) and was back to Normal in ten/twenty minutes or so.

Personally, I do feel a registry cleaning does improve my system
performance. Although I'm not quite sure how, now...

 

[Leythos]

I've have used registry cleaners for about a year now (on a weekly basis)
and have experienced one negative encounter. A system restore was required
(Windows System/Restore) and was back to Normal in ten/twenty minutes or so.

Personally, I do feel a registry cleaning does improve my system
performance. Although I'm not quite sure how, now...

And if you had not used the snake oil you would not have experienced the
failure that we (IT Type Admins/Engineers) know them for.

I have servers and workstations that are many years old, never needed a
reg cleaner on any of them.

I have tested reg cleaners and found them to be more trouble/risk than
they are worth. 99% of the time, if you don't use crappy software you
would never need one, the rest of the time you can hand-edit the
registry and end up being a lot better off - as long as you understand
the registry.

I would never use a cleaner on a production system and I don't follow
anything that db posts as being a quality source of technical
information.

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

Had no idea one question could spark such heated debate

Ironically, I still do not have a definitive answer to my original question
and maybe it should be left to personal choice dependent on how comfortable
one feels with cleaners.

I've have used registry cleaners for about a year now (on a weekly basis)
and have experienced one negative encounter. A system restore was required
(Windows System/Restore) and was back to Normal in ten/twenty minutes or so.

Two points:

1. Neither I, nor anyone else here, has ever claimed that a registry
cleaner will cause a problem every time you use it. Rather, its use
subjects you to the *risk* of a problem. If you've had one problem out
the 52 times or so you used it, that's about 2% of the time. Two isn't
a giant number, but a problems once a year can be major. The point is
that there is no need to run any risk at all.

2. If you were able to use System Restore to get back to where you
were (or use the undo function of your Registry Cleaner, if it has
such a feature), consider yourself lucky. Yes, sometimes one of those
can solve your problem. But if the registry cleaner leaves you with an
unbootable system (and that does sometimes happen), you will have a
far more serious problem to face.

But, of course, it's your choice on your machine, not mine. If I, and
others here, haven't convinced you of what a serious mistake this is,
go ahead and do what you think best.

 

[Richard G. Harper]

So untrue. I have been programming computers for about 35 years now and I
stand by my earlier statement - those who recommend registry cleaners do so
because they don't understand the Registry and how it works; nor have they
had to clean up the damage done by indiscriminate use of such programs.

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

So untrue. I have been programming computers for about 35 years now and I
stand by my earlier statement - those who recommend registry cleaners do so
because they don't understand the Registry and how it works; nor have they
had to clean up the damage done by indiscriminate use of such programs.

I completely agree with you, and I said much the same thing earlier. I
will add that although I am retired now, I started programming 47
years ago, and did it for many years.

 

[Charlie Tame]

Various "Speed up" utilities over the years have been proven to actually
create supposed errors in order to "Look" effective.

Making sure the file system is okay (Scanning the drives followed by
defragmenting) can help using the tools that come with the OS because
disk access is the slowest operation and the difference proportionately
greater when cleaned up, but it would take thousands of unwanted
registry entries to make the same difference. Sure a "Wrong" or
corrupted entry could do damage, but how would a "Cleaner" know it was
wrong? This comes down to manually correcting it anyway.

 

[db]

the one care they discontinued was
money ware.

but you already knew this.

--
db·´¯`·...¸><)))º>
DatabaseBen, Retired Professional
- Systems Analyst
- Database Developer
- Accountancy
- Veteran of the Armed Forces
- @Hotmail.com
- nntp Postologist
~ "share the nirvana" - dbZen

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[db]

if it is an indexed as you state
then the attribute of "un indexing"
is applicable.

--
db·´¯`·...¸><)))º>
DatabaseBen, Retired Professional
- Systems Analyst
- Database Developer
- Accountancy
- Veteran of the Armed Forces
- @Hotmail.com
- nntp Postologist
~ "share the nirvana" - dbZen

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[JamesJ]

I posted a question on this subject a while back and it to sparked a debate.

But, in my experience I can say I have used many registry cleaners
in the past and have noticed no significant improvement in my
system performance. One registry cleaner actually removed most of my items
form the
Add/Remove installed software list. There have also been other nightmares.

Now, I don't scan the registry any more.

The only noticable improvement to my system, was when I went from 1 gb of
ram to 3 gb of ram.
(Would've gotten 4 gb but needed another slot.)

Just be carefull.

James

 

[Ashton Crusher]

I am reading in this NG and all over the internet that cleaning the
registry is a no, no. I am also informed that the registry can/does get all
messed up/cluttered with all sorts of stuff, from removed programs, old
pointers, etc, over time.

So what/how do you fix this if you shouldn't use a registry cleaner???

I USED to use registry cleaners. And quite often problems would start
right after I cleaned it. Things like programs would no longer start
properly because some pointer in the registry got deleted. So I
stopped using them and have had a lot less problems in general. I
have found no downside to not "cleaning" the registry but it might
make the machine take a little longer to boot, who knows. For the
most part, the less of these kinds of "helpful utility" programs I've
used, the less problems I've had. My current machine is an HP running
Vista 32 and unlike my previous machines I decided when I got it to
NOT use any of the "helpful" utilities and it's been the most trouble
free system I've ever had. The only thing I run is AVG's virus
protection suite. Also, Norton ANYTHING (except Ghost, which I think
they bought from someone) always caused problems so I don't allow it
near my stuff.

 

[Ashton Crusher]

The anti-registry cleaner crowd are essentially non-programmers.

They do not comprehend the fact that when an application starts up and reads
entries from the registry, that this takes TIME.

They do not comprehend the fact that reading 6000 entries at application
startup will take longer than reading 20.

If you wish to be a fully-fledged signed up member of this mindless
unthinking herd of Gabardine swine, as they charge towards the cliff edge
with their corrupted registries, then follow their advice.

If you wish to part of the gang of sick doctors who deprive sick registries
of their much needed cure, then please follow their advice.

Alternatively get hold of a decent registry cleaner and start rooting out
the corruption.

Nonsense. Most registry cleaners do more harm then good. And very
few people would know which entries are safe to delete and which
aren't. If it's not broke, don't fix it. In my experience the best
advice for someone is to not use a registry cleaner unless there is a
specific problem already occurring and you have some reason to think
it's related to a registry error and you think the cleaner will find
and fix that error. Even if not cleaning it does cause a longer boot
that's not a big deal, I'd rather wait longer for it to boot then have
it not boot at all after the registry cleaner hoses things, as they so
often do.

 

[Charlie Tame]

Hehe, to quote :-

They do not comprehend the fact that when an application starts up and reads
entries from the registry, that this takes TIME.

Seconds at most, it is after all a computer. It takes a lot MORE time to
try and figure out why got broke and how to fix it.



Please post back if you find the solution, it helps others. Thanks.

Charlie Tame

 

[Jon]

You don't understand the hiearchal nature of the registry and how
applications use the registry. Applications don't go searching for keys
and values, they look for or ask to read or write to *specific* keys or
values or to verify their presence, the number of keys or values present
makes no difference at all because none of these other keys are even
looked at. The only time it makes any difference is if you want to do
extensive searches through the registry, like using Regedit to find
strings, applications don't do this, they don't rummage through the
registry, any Windows programmer would know this.

Actually that's incorrect. An application can easily, and often does, ask
for all values contained within a particular key (eg a set of folder paths),
without knowing beforehand the number of entries it will retrieve back. If
it retrieves and processes 6000, then this will necessarily take longer than
if it retrieves and processes 20. Simple. It aint rocket science.

Now if it so happens that a proportion, or even a majority, of those 6000
are superfluous invalid entries, then this is an example of where a
registry cleaner can save the day.