Registry Cleaners Pos and Cons

J

JamesJ

I've googled on the internet to find a non-bias informational website about
whether one needs to use a windows registry cleaner to optimize system
performance.
But so far I have gotten nothing but some links that appear non-bias but are
simply
egging you onto the web site to use their product.

What I'm looking for is info on:
1) Can the windows registry actually cause your system to slow down.
2) Could malware put lines in the registry that can cause harm to your
system
3) Does defragging the registry help performance

Personally, I download and try allot of shareware which I then need to
uninstall if I don't
want it which is probably 99% of the software I download. I know I shouldn't
be doing this
because I'm just asking for trouble. But this probably leaves allot of
unused registry keys.

If someone can point to a web site with this information it will be
appreciated.

Thanks,
James
 
R

Rick Rogers

Hi,

1) No

2) Yes

3) No

Registry cleaners in general are a sort of snake oil. They give the
impression that registry bloat (which actually was an issue in the Win9x
line) can slow a system down, and that deadend entries can inhibit system
performance. This is simply not the case. Dead entries (and some are not
actually dead but are misidentified as being so) have no effect on system
performance. Defragging and compacting is also not really an issue, as
commonly used bits are preloaded and housed in caches (prefetch), not drawn
directly from the hard drive.

What can be useful are registry cleaners designed by a software manufacturer
to specifically remove remnants of their software, like Symantec's symclean.
These are not general cleaners, but target specific strings associated with
their bits.

--
Best of Luck,

Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP

Windows help - www.rickrogers.org
My thoughts http://rick-mvp.blogspot.com
 
J

JamesJ

Is WIndows aware of invalid entries?

James

Van Chocstraw said:
Apparently many programs do not clean up after themselves completely.
Lines are left in the registry that point to nothing. In my opinion you
would have to have a significant amount of these to slow things down.
My other opinion on this is that Windows should clean itself out. It
should be aware of invalid pointers and such and take care of them.
 
J

JamesJ

I believe I read once that cleaaning the registry with a cleaner is like
sweeping out 1 parking place in a 1 acre parking lot.
Not sure where I saw that.

James
 
M

Mike Hall - MVP

JamesJ said:
I believe I read once that cleaaning the registry with a cleaner is like
sweeping out 1 parking place in a 1 acre parking lot.
Not sure where I saw that.

James


Computer users who run 3rd party stuff which claims to make a computer run
faster generally have more problems than those who don't, but they don't
realize what the cause is until such time as they are talked into NOT using
the cleaners
 
J

JamesJ

I used to have 3rd party software for just about every maintenance aspect
of my computer. I now started to use Windows utilities, Disk cleanup,
firewall...
and the like.

Thanks much,
James
 
J

JamesJ

Thanks
James

SIW2 said:
Hi James,

You might consider using the free 'Revo Uninstaller Freeware -
Uninstall Software, Remove Programs, Solve uninstall problems'
(http://www.revouninstaller.com) if you try out and uninstall a lot of
apps.

In my experience it does a better job than most programs own
uninstallers at clearing out the remnants.

It runs perfectly on all my 64 bit systems, although it only recognizes
and uninstalls 32 bit apps - that is pretty much all of them.

Hope it helps

SIW2
 
J

JamesJ

ok.
Thanks

Dave-UK said:
If you install/uninstall lots of software I recommend you use a proper
install
monitoring program and not rely on a registry cleaner. Although some
registry cleaners say they clean out remnants from an uninstalled
program they cannot know about all the entries.
With a monitoring program a snapshot is taken of your file system and
registry
before installation and another is taken after installation.
The two snapshots are then compared and a log file written.
I use Ashampoo Uninstaller but there are others you can try before buying.
 
C

Chad Harris

JamesJ said:
I've googled on the internet to find a non-bias informational website
about
whether one needs to use a windows registry cleaner to optimize system
performance.
But so far I have gotten nothing but some links that appear non-bias but
are simply
egging you onto the web site to use their product.

What I'm looking for is info on:
1) Can the windows registry actually cause your system to slow down.
2) Could malware put lines in the registry that can cause harm to your
system
3) Does defragging the registry help performance

Personally, I download and try allot of shareware which I then need to
uninstall if I don't
want it which is probably 99% of the software I download. I know I
shouldn't be doing this
because I'm just asking for trouble. But this probably leaves allot of
unused registry keys.

If someone can point to a web site with this information it will be
appreciated.

Thanks,
James

1) The Windows Registry is the ultimate filing cabinet for the Windows OS.
To quote Jerry Honeycutt in his eponymously named MSFT Press book "The
Windows Registry Guide" who also has a website

http://www.honeycutt.com/

and a blog

http://www.honeycutt.com/Blog/tabid/72/BlogID/1/Default.aspx

and has written articles for the maker of the Windows Registry, Microsoft

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/meetexperts/honeycutt.mspx

"the registry plays a big role in how your comptuer behaves and controls how
applications run on your computer." Microsoft calls the registry "the
central repository for configuration data."

You betcha it can slow down or even stop your computer from running. But
people who know how to use it also tweak it to make it perform many tasks.
Kelly Theriot has masterfully put together 828 or so sets of registry edits
to make Windows do many things. She did it when XP was in bloom, but has
continued to add to it throughout the current Vista run, and the vast
majority of her tweaks work on Windows 7, which has a Windows XP Mode now.

Many of Kelly's tweaks put together multiple regedits to effect the tweak.

http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com/xp_tweaks.htm

Windows XP Mode aka XPM Windows 7
http://community.winsupersite.com/b...vealing-virtual-windows-xp-for-windows-7.aspx

"XPM is built on the next generation Microsoft Virtual PC 7 product line,
which requires processor-based virtualization support (Intel and AMD) to be
present and enabled on the underlying PC, much like Hyper-V, Microsoft's
server-side virtualization platform." ---Rafael Rivera and Paul Thurrott

But back to the registry.

You stated you hadn't found a site where anyone comments on so-called reg
cleaners who is biased and "egging you on" to use their product.

Ed Bott has no bias. Ed Bott co-authors the MSFT Press Windows Inside Out
for XP, Vista, and Windows 7 and has 3 excellent websites.

Here is Mr. Bott on registry cleaners. Mr. Bott recommends not using them.
And again, I'd like to remind you--you don't know what the hell these
so-called cleaners are doing, and precisely where if at all in the registry
they are doing it.

Ed Bott's Windows Expertise: Why I Don't Use Registry Cleaners
http://www.edbott.com/weblog/?p=643

I would say there is one registry tweaker that I have used, and I have
confidence in and that one, but it makes automatic regedits, and it's made
by a serious registry expert from Australia:

PC Tools (formerly Winguides)
http://www.pctools.com/guides/

Many regedits are available here, from the Registry Guide.

Your questions were:

1) Can the registry slow down your computer? Absolutely and it's proper
editing can allow your Windows to do thousands of things it could not do at
default.
2) Can defragging impact the reg? Indirectly. I'd advise you to defrag
often, and defrag depending upon how often you use your Windows system. You
can set the native Windows defragger to run and reach it by typing "defrag"
in the search box.

You aren't directly defragging the registry when you run a defragger.

You can gain some insight here:
http://blogs.technet.com/filecab/archive/tags/Disk+Defragmenter/default.aspx

There are also a number of excellent papers on the Diskeeper site:

https://www.diskeeper.com/support/manuals.aspx

My personal preference for Defragging is Perfect Disk:
www.raxco.com

It will not yet load in a Windows 7 box, but works great in Windows Vista.

Best,

CH
 
B

Bruce Chambers

JamesJ said:
I've googled on the internet to find a non-bias informational website about
whether one needs to use a windows registry cleaner to optimize system
performance.
But so far I have gotten nothing but some links that appear non-bias but
are simply
egging you onto the web site to use their product.

Because that's all there is.
What I'm looking for is info on:
1) Can the windows registry actually cause your system to slow down.


No. And none of the registry cleaner advocates have ever been able to
provide any links to any *independent* laboratory tests that would
support such a claim. I've certainly asked often enough, but all they
ever offer, when they bother to respond at all, are links to the
registry sellers' marketing pages or "white papers."

2) Could malware put lines in the registry that can cause harm to your
system


Yes. But you wouldn't need an automated registry cleaner to deal with
such entries. The various anti-malware applications (anti-virus,
anti-spyware, etc.) are better for this purpose, as they've been
specific designed to seek and remove only those entries associated with
the malware. They don't use a registry cleaner's "chainsaw" approach to
what should be a precise surgical excision.

3) Does defragging the registry help performance

Not measurably, that anyone has been able to demonstrate scientifically.

Personally, I download and try allot of shareware which I then need to
uninstall if I don't
want it which is probably 99% of the software I download. I know I
shouldn't be doing this
because I'm just asking for trouble. But this probably leaves allot of
unused registry keys.


Yes, such actions may well leave a lot of unused registry keys. So
what? No one has ever offered any scientifically verifiable evidence
that such entries have any impact upon system performance. In fact,
given the fact that the registry is, in reality, an indexed database,
there's no really any way for unused entries to affect anything other
than a microscopically small consumption of hard drive space.

If someone can point to a web site with this information it will be
appreciated.


Why do you even think you'd ever need to clean your registry? What
specific *problems* are you actually experiencing (not some program's
bogus listing of imaginary problems) that you think can be fixed by
using a registry "cleaner?"

If you do have a problem that is rooted in the registry, it would
be far better to simply edit (after backing up, of course) only the
specific key(s) and/or value(s) that are causing the problem. After
all, why use a chainsaw when a scalpel will do the job? Additionally,
the manually changing of one or two registry entries is far less likely
to have the dire consequences of allowing an automated product to make
multiple changes simultaneously. The only thing needed to safely clean
your registry is knowledge and Regedit.exe.

The registry contains all of the operating system's "knowledge" of
the computer's hardware devices, installed software, the location of the
device drivers, and the computer's configuration. A misstep in the
registry can have severe consequences. One should not even turning
loose a poorly understood automated "cleaner," unless he is fully
confident that he knows *exactly* what is going to happen as a result of
each and every change.

Having repeatedly seen the results of inexperienced people using
automated registry "cleaners," I can only advise all but the most
experienced computer technicians (and/or hobbyists) to avoid them all.
Experience has shown me that such tools simply are not safe in the hands
of the inexperienced user. If you lack the knowledge and experience to
maintain your registry by yourself, then you also lack the knowledge and
experience to safely configure and use any automated registry cleaner,
no matter how safe they claim to be.

More importantly, no one has ever demonstrated that the use of an
automated registry "cleaner," particularly by an untrained,
inexperienced computer user, does any real good, whatsoever. There's
certainly been no empirical evidence offered to demonstrate that the use
of such products to "clean" WinXP's registry improves a computer's
performance or stability. Given the potential for harm, it's just not
worth the risk.

Granted, most registry "cleaners" won't cause problems each and
every time they're used, but the potential for harm is always there.
And, since no registry "cleaner" has ever been demonstrated to do any
good (think of them like treating the flu with chicken soup - there's no
real medicinal value, but it sometimes provides a warming placebo
effect), I always tell people that the risks far out-weigh the
non-existent benefits.

I will concede that a good registry *scanning* tool, in the hands
of an experienced and knowledgeable technician or hobbyist can be a
useful time-saving diagnostic tool, as long as it's not allowed to make
any changes automatically. But I really don't think that there are any
registry "cleaners" that are truly safe for the general public to use.
Experience has proven just the opposite: such tools simply are not safe
in the hands of the inexperienced user.

A little further reading on the subject:

Why I don't use registry cleaners
http://www.edbott.com/weblog/?p=643

AumHa Forums • View topic - AUMHA Discussion: Should I Use a Registry
Cleaner?
http://aumha.net/viewtopic.php?t=28099



--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:


http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/555375

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. ~Benjamin Franklin

Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. ~Bertrand Russell

The philosopher has never killed any priests, whereas the priest has
killed a great many philosophers.
~ Denis Diderot
 
C

Chad Harris

JamesJ said:
I've googled on the internet to find a non-bias informational website
about
whether one needs to use a windows registry cleaner to optimize system
performance.
But so far I have gotten nothing but some links that appear non-bias but
are simply
egging you onto the web site to use their product.

What I'm looking for is info on:
1) Can the windows registry actually cause your system to slow down.
2) Could malware put lines in the registry that can cause harm to your
system
3) Does defragging the registry help performance

Personally, I download and try allot of shareware which I then need to
uninstall if I don't
want it which is probably 99% of the software I download. I know I
shouldn't be doing this
because I'm just asking for trouble. But this probably leaves allot of
unused registry keys.

If someone can point to a web site with this information it will be
appreciated.

Thanks,
James


James--

I should clarify that when I say the registry can stop your computer,. I
mean loss of certain registry keys could slow certain specific applications
or stop them from running as well as components of Windows, but the
impression that so-called registry cleaner makers give that they are helping
your computer run faster by using their product is simply false and again,
you don't know what those products are doing in your registry. I would
never trust the scans those things do finding a hundred billion eleventy or
so so-called registry errors. That's simply false. They don't show you in
anatomical detail what and where they are doing something in the registry.
Never use them.

Defragging is a correction of the fragmentation of the file system on your
disk to optimize their retrieval and use, and it promotes organization of
contiguous sectors on your disk, and in that way it will speed your
computer.

Defragging and registry editing are two entirely different things, and I
would think of defragging and the registry in separate categories entirely.

The Diskeeper articles explain it well. "The Filing Cabinet" site articles
also will help you to understand how defraggers work, and a number of other
things in Windows if you pay attention to the hyperlinks on the left of the
site's home page.

Good luck,

CH
 
J

JamesJ

Thanks much for the links.
When you said defrag often you meant windows defrag, not the registry
directly
like some of these cleaners claim they can do?

James
 
K

Ken Blake, MVP

I've googled on the internet to find a non-bias informational website about
whether one needs to use a windows registry cleaner to optimize system
performance.


Whether one needs to is the wrong question. Not only do you not heed
to, but you definitely should not.

Registry cleaning programs are *all* snake oil. Cleaning of the
registry isn't needed and is dangerous. Leave the registry alone and
don't use any registry cleaner. Despite what many people think, and
what vendors of registry cleaning software try to convince you of,
having unused registry entries doesn't really hurt you.

The risk of a serious problem caused by a registry cleaner erroneously
removing an entry you need is far greater than any potential benefit
it may have.

Read http://www.edbott.com/weblog/archives/000643.html
 
N

NotEvenMe

my opinion is that a reg cleaner should only be used by someone who has the
expertise to really not need it.
otherwise, it's like handing a loaded and cocked pistol, with the safety
off, to a 4 year old.
 
D

Daddy Tadpole

I've read all the previous posts on this thread, as well as various comments
elsewhere on the internet.

I guess this subject keeps coming up because people are fed up with the
slowness of XP and V*sta, particularly at startup.

You buy a machine that does 1000 000 000 things a second, but a normal user
has no way of knowing what the thing is doing during the 15-20 minutes it
takes before you're allowed to do anything that doesn't bring back the egg
timer (should be a calendar).

Sometimes I think it's the antivirus or other defense software, but it's
easier to blame M$ because they're too stupid to provide a way of providing
non-geek users with an indication of what's going on.

Regards
 
S

Steve McGarrett

You buy a machine that does 1000 000 000 things a second, but a normal user
has no way of knowing what the thing is doing during the 15-20 minutes it
takes before you're allowed to do anything that doesn't bring back the egg
timer (should be a calendar).

"15-20 minutes" is total bullcrap.

My XP laptop takes less than a minute.

This Vista machine takes about 60 seconds longer because I have more
programs loading at startup. It gets to the desktop in less than a
minute.
 
G

Gene E. Bloch

On Sat, 25 Apr 2009 08:15:08 -0600, Bruce Chambers wrote:

(With lots of snippery)
And, since no registry "cleaner" has ever been demonstrated to do any
good (think of them like treating the flu with chicken soup - there's no
real medicinal value, but it sometimes provides a warming placebo
effect), I always tell people that the risks far out-weigh the
non-existent benefits.

Well, years ago I read an article in Scientific American about support for
cholera victims. Fed with enough electrolytes and some protein and carbs,
they could be kept alive long enough for the immune system to kill the
germs.

The authors closed with the remark that in fact their suggested nutrition
supplement was somewhat like your grandmother's chicken soup, which works
tolerably well at the same job.

Not the flu, but still...

The above is true, posted just for fun.
 

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