Radeon 9600 NON-Pro JUNK???

[Jake]

I'm not here to bash people or peoples' choices, but I do have to bash
the living hell out of the Xtasy Radeon 9600 256mb non-pro card I just
bought at Compusa for the apparently-good-deal of $139.00 after
rebate. My god this card is a step backwards from the two cards I
used in this particular machine in the recent past: a Ti4200 128mb
and (yes, it's true) a 8500LE 128mb.
This machine is:
Abit KD7E mobo
Athlon XP2100+ (slightly oc'ed)
512mb Crucial PC2100
120gb WD HDD
SBLive 5.1 sound

I've tweaked the 9600 for hours with both Rage3d and Powerstrip, and
I'm telling you, acceptable speed just ain't there. Benchmarks are
poor, and, most frustrating of all, even two-year-old games like
Splinter Cell are virtually unplayable at 1024x768 with high settings.
Thing is, this particular game played like glass with the Ti4200 and
pretty well with the 8500LE.
The video card game, especially the way ATI plays it, has really
become a pathetic joke. The names and numbers change almost daily,
but understanding the performance issues as they relate to the
"evolution" of the cards is almost impossible. Pro, non-pro, 128,
256, 8x, 4x, SE, not to mention the DX variables.
I'm not looking for a flame war, just basically posting a review and a
couple of opinions. The Ti4200 is going back in, and the 9600 is just
going back. I'm not an ATI/Nvidia lover or hater. I couldn't care
less who makes the equipment I use, so long as it's quality and
reasonably priced.
Someone please explain why this card was even manufactured, when it
gets drummed by a 8500, a two-year-old card with a much "lower
number."

 

[Andy Cunningham]

Not sure whether this is just trolling or not here, but the simple fact is
that in most reviews, the 9600 will trash the 8500, LE or not. Admittedly,
the memory speed is way lower than the Pro, but I would still expect it to
beat the Ti4200. There must be something in the drivers perhaps remaining
from old installs that is causing the problems as this is a faster card than
you have found it to be.

There aren't that many reviews, but at worst in any given benchmakr it
should be over 2/3 the speed of the 9600 Pro.

 

[Dark Avenger]

I'm not here to bash people or peoples' choices, but I do have to bash
the living hell out of the Xtasy Radeon 9600 256mb non-pro card I just
bought at Compusa for the apparently-good-deal of $139.00 after
rebate. My god this card is a step backwards from the two cards I
used in this particular machine in the recent past: a Ti4200 128mb
and (yes, it's true) a 8500LE 128mb.
This machine is:
Abit KD7E mobo
Athlon XP2100+ (slightly oc'ed)
512mb Crucial PC2100
120gb WD HDD
SBLive 5.1 sound

I've tweaked the 9600 for hours with both Rage3d and Powerstrip, and
I'm telling you, acceptable speed just ain't there. Benchmarks are
poor, and, most frustrating of all, even two-year-old games like
Splinter Cell are virtually unplayable at 1024x768 with high settings.
Thing is, this particular game played like glass with the Ti4200 and
pretty well with the 8500LE.
The video card game, especially the way ATI plays it, has really
become a pathetic joke. The names and numbers change almost daily,
but understanding the performance issues as they relate to the
"evolution" of the cards is almost impossible. Pro, non-pro, 128,
256, 8x, 4x, SE, not to mention the DX variables.
I'm not looking for a flame war, just basically posting a review and a
couple of opinions. The Ti4200 is going back in, and the 9600 is just
going back. I'm not an ATI/Nvidia lover or hater. I couldn't care
less who makes the equipment I use, so long as it's quality and
reasonably priced.
Someone please explain why this card was even manufactured, when it
gets drummed by a 8500, a two-year-old card with a much "lower
number."

.....

You hopefully did remove all the stuff of nvidia before you installed
your card!

NFR ( Nasty File Remover ) might be a friend for you! Because most
cases of ulterior bad performance... comes from nvidia stuff that
isn't removed from the system!

 

[Jake]

I promise you, this is not trolling at all.
I want to agree with you and the reviews. I hate the idea that I've
more or less wasted the $139 I spent on this card. However, I have to
stand behind my two main points, which are: The 9600 consistently
scores worse in 3DMark01 (8200) than my Ti4200 (9100) on the same
machine. Now, I'm aware that 3DMark01 is a little dated, and it may
be that the 9600 is more optimized for certain more "up-to-date"
features of games (AA, AF, pixel shading, etc) that aren't emphasized
in 3DMark01. Tonight I will download and experiment with a couple
more benchmarks, including 3DMark03/04.
The second main point is how poorly the 9600 handles Splinter Cell in
1024/768 with settings on High or Very High. Both the Ti4200 and the
8500LE handled this game better. I'm not trashing the 9600 on the
basis that it won't run this ONE game, but it is frustrating to buy a
newer, more expensive card and watch ANY performance drop whatsoever.
I'm very intrigued by your suggestion that my old Nvidia drivers could
be hanging me up. Detenator Destroyer doesn't support XP yet, so the
website says. Is there another good program for completely ridding my
machine of the Nvidia leave-behind files?
Thank you.

jake

 

[Magwheelz]

Is there another good program for completely ridding my
machine of the Nvidia leave-behind files?

Driver Cleaner 2.6
Copyright (c) 2003 Ruud Ketelaars.
All Rights Reserved.

It works on all windows operating systems.

Gotta go,
Magwheelz

 

[Dark Avenger]

Not sure whether this is just trolling or not here, but the simple fact is
that in most reviews, the 9600 will trash the 8500, LE or not. Admittedly,
the memory speed is way lower than the Pro, but I would still expect it to
beat the Ti4200. There must be something in the drivers perhaps remaining
from old installs that is causing the problems as this is a faster card than
you have found it to be.

There aren't that many reviews, but at worst in any given benchmakr it
should be over 2/3 the speed of the 9600 Pro.

When last I change my old ti4800SE to a nice Ati 9500 Pro.. ( if you
find one, they are worth it ) I did remove the nvidia drivers...

removed the card

Plugged the ati in... restarted, installed the driver. And found it to
go very slow. Why... because NVIEW was loaded.. yes NVIEW.. WHAT DOES
NVIEW ON MY SYSTEM AFTER REMOVING THOSE DAMN DRIVERS!

Sigh, really annoying those guys from nvidia!

 

[Phoenix AG]

Is there another good program for completely ridding my
machine of the Nvidia leave-behind files?

You could try Nasty File Remover.
I don't know the site, so just search google for "download nasty file
remover".
It's a great program and let's you see exactly what you're removing,
including driver versions of the nVidia files etc.
Its much better than those other programs.


***
....the Phoenix shall rise...

 

[Dark Avenger]

I promise you, this is not trolling at all.
I want to agree with you and the reviews. I hate the idea that I've
more or less wasted the $139 I spent on this card. However, I have to
stand behind my two main points, which are: The 9600 consistently
scores worse in 3DMark01 (8200) than my Ti4200 (9100) on the same
machine. Now, I'm aware that 3DMark01 is a little dated, and it may
be that the 9600 is more optimized for certain more "up-to-date"
features of games (AA, AF, pixel shading, etc) that aren't emphasized
in 3DMark01. Tonight I will download and experiment with a couple
more benchmarks, including 3DMark03/04.
The second main point is how poorly the 9600 handles Splinter Cell in
1024/768 with settings on High or Very High. Both the Ti4200 and the
8500LE handled this game better. I'm not trashing the 9600 on the
basis that it won't run this ONE game, but it is frustrating to buy a
newer, more expensive card and watch ANY performance drop whatsoever.
I'm very intrigued by your suggestion that my old Nvidia drivers could
be hanging me up. Detenator Destroyer doesn't support XP yet, so the
website says. Is there another good program for completely ridding my
machine of the Nvidia leave-behind files?
Thank you.

jake

You know, the ti4200 is part of the GF4 ti range! In DX8 they are the
king! In pure raw DX8 power, they are the King!

But Once a game needs more advanced pixelshaders orso ( DX9 features )
it can't render it, and you don't get to see the eye-candy!

The 9600 Pro indeed is in DX8 slower... yes.. a known fact, but the
anti-aliasing/Aniso on the other hand are very very nice! In case you
put Aniso/Anti-aliasing high up on a GF4 the speed falls in and the
card gets creeping slow.

In case of the ATI card, it will run still pretty fine, after losing
less as 30% framerate!

So for all your DX8 games, crank up that anti-aliasing + Aniso... and
see for yourself!

Once we talk about DX9, ati is king here. Their budget series are...
very damn nice fast already! The top Series... ah nvidia can only HOPE
to get close to such performance!

 

[matthew utt]

you must have got a shitty card because i had the same one from compusa and
i loved it
before i had that card i had an nvidia GFX 5200 ultra
it was nice but nothing like an ati card is
on benchmarks the ati blew the nvidia away like it wasnt nothing
if i remember right i had my xtasy clocked at 427/850 effective and it got
higher scores that any of my previous card
my computer is as follows:
GigaByte GA-7VA KT400 chipset
AMD Athlon 2800+
1280 Meg DDR PC2700
Built by ATI 9600XT clocked at 600/680
your computer sounds like it is bottlenecked if i had the same card you did

 

[Jake]

Thanks for all the help, guys.
It's still not the card of my dreams, but the $139 seems like money
well spent now. I installed and ran DriveCleaner 2.6, reinstalled new
drivers, and the performance is much better. I guess there were rogue
Nvidia drivers in there hosing things up. It's a shame that Nvidia
and ATI don't give you the tools to effectively and COMPLETELY remove
their own drivers! It's a good thing we've got third party makers to
help. I'll be making a donation to the guy to help him keep up the
good work. [we all should do that when we find excellent
free/shareware]
I've got the card oc'ed from 324/195 to 364/207, and the difference is
noticeable in both benchmarks and games. What are some steps I can
take to enable more oc?

jake