Questions about Nikon SA-30 roll film adapter

[haitao]

I have some questions about the aperture/scan range and the frame
detection of this Nikon SA-30 roll film adapter. I am looking for a
film scanner than can continuously scan a whole roll of film without
frame separations. Actually, there is overlap between frames in my
film, but I want to reconstruct the whole sequence of the frames
digitally as that in the film. I hope that the scanned images also have
overlapped area that I can put them together in software.

I find that in Nikon's manual, the scan range has a 38 mm length while
with a 36 mm effective length. What does this effective length mean
here? Does it mean that the scanned area has to be or smaller than that
size? If that, it looks that there must be a 2 mm separation between
the nearest frames.

I heard that the scanner will automatically determine frames. For my
case, there is no real meaning separated frames, then how will the
scanner work? Can I manually set where is the first frame and start
scanning? Anybody has experimence on my issue?

 

[Jim]

I have some questions about the aperture/scan range and the frame
detection of this Nikon SA-30 roll film adapter. I am looking for a
film scanner than can continuously scan a whole roll of film without
frame separations. Actually, there is overlap between frames in my
film, but I want to reconstruct the whole sequence of the frames
digitally as that in the film. I hope that the scanned images also have
overlapped area that I can put them together in software.

I find that in Nikon's manual, the scan range has a 38 mm length while
with a 36 mm effective length. What does this effective length mean
here? Does it mean that the scanned area has to be or smaller than that
size? If that, it looks that there must be a 2 mm separation between
the nearest frames.

24x36 images with 2mm between images.

I heard that the scanner will automatically determine frames. For my
case, there is no real meaning separated frames, then how will the
scanner work? Can I manually set where is the first frame and start
scanning? Anybody has experimence on my issue?

It uses the blank space to determine frames. If there is no blank space,
you can't use the SA-30. The manual adapter, however, has no such
limitation. You determine where one frame begins and ends.
Jim

 

[haitao]

24x36 images with 2mm between images.
It uses the blank space to determine frames. If there is no blank space,
you can't use the SA-30. The manual adapter, however, has no such
limitation. You determine where one frame begins and ends.
Jim

Do you mean SA-21 35mm Strip Film Adapter for the "manual adapter"? If
so, do I have to cut my film when use 5000 scanner with the manual
adapter? Thanks for your information.

Haitao

 

[Jim]

Do you mean SA-21 35mm Strip Film Adapter for the "manual adapter"? If
so, do I have to cut my film when use 5000 scanner with the manual
adapter? Thanks for your information.

Haitao

Yes, and yes
Jim

 

[haitao]

Then, it is a bad news for me. It looks neither SA-21 nor SA-30 works
for me. Really bad.
Haitao

 

[Kennedy McEwen]

I have some questions about the aperture/scan range and the frame
detection of this Nikon SA-30 roll film adapter. I am looking for a
film scanner than can continuously scan a whole roll of film without
frame separations. Actually, there is overlap between frames in my
film, but I want to reconstruct the whole sequence of the frames
digitally as that in the film. I hope that the scanned images also have
overlapped area that I can put them together in software.

Try it and see for yourself. Contrary to advice you have been given, it
depends on the software you use whether the scanner looks for spaces
between frames or senses the perforations. I can't remember the
details, but NikonScan 4 uses one approach whilst Vuescan uses the
other. I think an earlier version of NikonScan worked the same way as
Vuescan, but that may not be compatible with your scanner.

You can "convert" your SA-21 into an SA-30 (obviously without the film
spool, but that is no hardship) with the modification shown on this
page:
http://nikonscanner.tripod.com/SA-21_to_SA-30.gif
simply make the link between the contacts shown.

Alternatively, the two contacts of the link in question connect directly
to pins 16 and 17 of the blue rear connector on the SA-21. Looking into
the rear of the SA-21 with the adapter the correct way up, pin 13 is on
the middle row on the left of the connector, so just count 4 and 5 pins
across and you get to the two pins in question. These can be shorted
together using some very fine wire - thin enough so that the operation
of the connector contact is not interfered with. Then hold the link
wire in place with some adhesive tape - Scotch Magic tape works quite
well for this.

Before pushing the SA-21 back into the scanner, make sure that you
pierce the adhesive tape over each contact in the connector block with a
pin. This will prevent the corresponding pins in the scanner body being
subjected to additional pressure as the adapter is pushed home.

Be sure to open the clip at the back of the scanner and place a suitable
film receptacle (a clean glass jar) there before feeding an entire roll
of film into the modified SA-21.

 

[Hans-Georg Michna]

You can "convert" your SA-21 into an SA-30

Kennedy,

thank you very much for this information. I came close to buying
an SA-30 to scan some old film rolls, but shied away from the
price, while an SA-21 is sitting here in front of me.

Hans-Georg

 

[Jim]

Try it and see for yourself. Contrary to advice you have been given, it
depends on the software you use whether the scanner looks for spaces
between frames or senses the perforations. I can't remember the details,
but NikonScan 4 uses one approach whilst Vuescan uses the other. I think
an earlier version of NikonScan worked the same way as Vuescan, but that
may not be compatible with your scanner.

Well, of course it is the software that looks for the spaces or counts
perforations. All the roll film adapter does is move the film back and
forth as commanded by the software.
Nikon Scan looks at the spaces. I have no idea what Vuescan uses even
though I use it.
If I had this problem, I would put the film in the manual film strip adapter
and go onward. He only has one roll to split (as I understand his problem).
I certainly would not rely on any automatic device with whatever software to
determine where one frame ends and another begins.
Jim

 

[haitao]

Thans, Jim and Kennedy, I want to write down what I get from your posts
and get your confirmation that if I am right.

My problem: Long, uncut roll of film (40~50 frames); don't want to cut
it; no blank space between frames; need all information on the film (so
I may need overlapped scanning of some area).

1. It looks that by purely using the SA-21 manual film strip adapter
(without modification), I have to cut my film roll into strips with at
most 6 frames, otherwise, the scanner will not do my job (how about
just leave some frames outside the adapter?). I don't know if the
scanner will work for strips longer than 6 frames. Can I first scan 6
frames at one end, and scan other 6 frames at the other end, so the
total will be 12 frames in one strip? In addition, SA-21 does not have
the problem of scanning films without blank area.

2. With the modifications of the SA-21, I can use it as a roll film
adapter (does it mean that the scanner will recognize it as a SA-30?).
To do this, I need a container as film receptacle and open the rear
side clip. But then I will get the problem of frame detection since
there no blank space between frames for my case. Other scanning
software, like Vuescan, may solve this detection problem, am I right?

Haitao

 

[haitao]

BTW, I do not have the scanner at hand, so I cannot try any of your
suggestions. I need find out which scanner is the best one for my
application.
Haitao

 

[Kennedy McEwen]

Kennedy,

thank you very much for this information. I came close to buying
an SA-30 to scan some old film rolls, but shied away from the
price, while an SA-21 is sitting here in front of me.

You have more luck than I did. I found this out some months AFTER
shelling out for an SA-30. :-(

Oh well, at least I have the take-up spool.

 

[Kennedy McEwen]

Well, of course it is the software that looks for the spaces or counts
perforations. All the roll film adapter does is move the film back and
forth as commanded by the software.
Nikon Scan looks at the spaces.

NikonScan 4 appears to look at the spaces - which, presumably, is also
why it crashes if you insert film of the opposite polarity from what it
expects. eg. set for colour negative and insert slide film - crash. Set
of slide film and insert negative - crash. Nikon confirmed this problem
to me about 18 months ago and still haven't fixed it.

I am pretty sure that NikonScan3, however, used the sprockets to
position frames - and that didn't crash when the wrong film was
inserted either. As I mentioned, this version may not be suitable for
the LS-5000 scanner though.

 

[Kennedy McEwen]

Thans, Jim and Kennedy, I want to write down what I get from your posts
and get your confirmation that if I am right.

My problem: Long, uncut roll of film (40~50 frames); don't want to cut
it; no blank space between frames; need all information on the film (so
I may need overlapped scanning of some area).

The SA-30 is only specified for a maximum of 40 frames, which is also
the most I have in any roll. I don't know if it will take 50 frames or
not, but the specifications say it won't. It will probably only scan
the first 40 and then eject the film with an error message.

1. It looks that by purely using the SA-21 manual film strip adapter
(without modification), I have to cut my film roll into strips with at
most 6 frames, otherwise, the scanner will not do my job (how about
just leave some frames outside the adapter?). I don't know if the
scanner will work for strips longer than 6 frames.

No, that won't work. The unmodified adapter will only accept the first
6 frames on the roll and never get to the rest of the frames.

Can I first scan 6
frames at one end, and scan other 6 frames at the other end, so the
total will be 12 frames in one strip?

Yes, that would seem to be possible, scanning a 12 frame strip with two
insertions.

In addition, SA-21 does not have
the problem of scanning films without blank area.

I am sure this is more of an issue with software than the adapter. Using
NikonScan4 even the SA-21 may have problems without gaps between frames.
Vuescan would appear to be more suitable, with both frame offset and
position being user defined and independent of the frame borders.

It may also be possible to write your own software to control the
movement of the film using the Nikon SDK. Ed Hamrick has clearly
managed this in Vuescan, so it is feasible.

2. With the modifications of the SA-21, I can use it as a roll film
adapter (does it mean that the scanner will recognize it as a SA-30?).

Yes - it recognises the SA-21 as an SA-30 with the modification. In
fact, having examined both adapters, this link is the only difference
between them other than a small dust brush on the lower side of the
SA-30. I guess Nikon expect long rolls of film to pick up dust while
waiting to be scanned.

To do this, I need a container as film receptacle and open the rear
side clip.
Yes.

But then I will get the problem of frame detection since
there no blank space between frames for my case. Other scanning
software, like Vuescan, may solve this detection problem, am I right?

Yes.
As an alternative you could even use an approach similar to something I
did to scan reels of 8mm movie film. I made an external transport
system with a stepper motor driven from the serial port of the PC. This
was geared down and pulled the film via its sprockets through the MA-20
manual adapter by the desired amount. That meant I could move the film
by any distance I chose, scanning between 1 and 6 frames of 8mm movie at
a time.

 

[haitao]

Thanks, So, Kennedy, an more expensive solution but without any
modification will be using SA-30 (this is equal to using modified
SA-21) and Vuescan, right?

 

[haitao]

Yes, that would seem to be possible, scanning a 12 frame strip with two

insertions.

After using an older Nikon scanner LS-2000, I start to doubt this
guess. The LS-2000 crashed when I inserted a film strip longer than 6
frames into it and the film adapter jamed. It looks that the scanner
try to count the total number first and then get film jamed in its
adapter. The manual film adapter of LS-2000 is different from SA-21
that there is no opening at its rear side, so longer film cannot pass
through the adapter and will jam there when the adapter try to eat up
all frames. Don't know whether this will happen when inserting film
strip longer than 6 frames into SA-21 adapter of LS-5000.

 

[Kennedy McEwen]

After using an older Nikon scanner LS-2000, I start to doubt this
guess.

I have now tried this with an unmodified SA-21 and it does indeed cause
a problem, although not a crash. The film is just ejected and a message
saying that only 2-6 frames can be scanned is displayed. So, I guess
the only options are the modification I suggested or a full SA-30
adapter.

 

[haitao]

I have now tried this with an unmodified SA-21 and it does indeed cause
a problem, although not a crash. The film is just ejected and a message
saying that only 2-6 frames can be scanned is displayed. So, I guess
the only options are the modification I suggested or a full SA-30
adapter.

Kennedy,
Thanks. Could you give me any clue of how the SA-30 roll film adapter
works? Will it first scans all the frames and gives a preview or just
scans frames one by one. If the former, I think my film without blank
separation will still get problems. I found that the offset function of
Vuescan is really good. If the scanner scans frames one by one when
using SA-30, then Vuescan + SA-30 should be a good solution for me.
Haitao

 

[Kennedy McEwen]

Kennedy,
Thanks. Could you give me any clue of how the SA-30 roll film adapter
works? Will it first scans all the frames and gives a preview or just
scans frames one by one. If the former, I think my film without blank
separation will still get problems. I found that the offset function of
Vuescan is really good. If the scanner scans frames one by one when
using SA-30, then Vuescan + SA-30 should be a good solution for me.
Haitao

The Sa-30 works just the same as the SA-21, except it copes with up to
40 frames. How it scans depends on the application you use to scan.