PSU problem?

[alexei.george]

Hi,

Ok, my computer has become extremely temperamental so I'll just post
what's been happening and hopefully someone can shed some light and
advise me.

This all started when I came back to my pc and pressed escape for some
task I've forgotten. The computer was unresponsive and something in
the hardware just let out a beep when I pressed. I thought I'd just
leave it alone for a while, but within a few minutes my pc was letting
out a continuous beeping - I left it a few more minutes and then just
restarted it by the button on the box

When I tried to turn it on again it just froze on a blank screen. After
repeating this seemingly endlessly, I noticed that it froze on the
blank screen immediately after the bit of text which said "verifying
DMI pool data...", and also that as the computer started there were
beeps (I thought it was three short beeps, all very close together).

Not knowing much about hardware, I cracked out the Phillips screwdriver
and opened the box up. I poked around a bit, didn't really change
much, and then wired back the monitor and the mouse and started it up
again. This time it worked!
Not wanting to tempt fate, I immediately made for my important files
and tried to get them backed up onto a DVD. For some reason this
wouldn't work (I think the error message was something very generic,
like "error, XP cannot copy this file).

I turned my pc off by the button on the box, and tried to turn it on
again, but this time it was totally unresponsive. Nothing happened.

After a minor heart attack I unplugged all the external stuff again,
and then rebooted it. Again it worked, and instead of backing up stuff
through DVD, I plugged the modem in and backed it up via the network to
my Dad's shiny new laptop. Half way through messing around and
looking on the net for a solution, my keyboard (which was plugged into
a USB port) locked out.

I rebooted (think I just restarted through XP rather than going through
the whole rigmarole of unplugging everything). This time my keyboard
worked but my graphics card didn't. I was seeing XP in some
ridiculously small resolution with about 16 colours. It occurs to me
now, that possibly in my earlier attempt to backup, there had been
other components that XP had been trying to install such as my TV card.

Next time I restarted, I didn't risk using my keyboard - I just had
my monitor and my mouse plugged in at the back, and it worked (sort of)
ok. I haven't tried since (been busy with other stuff, and my PC has
been off for a couple of days).

Does anyone have any idea what I should do?

N.b. I *think* it might be a PSU problem. This would seem to fit,
because it explains why my DVD writer drive wasn't working, why
sometimes components aren't working properly, why my PC sometimes
won't turn on. I also have had a kind of continuing issue with my USB
pen drive not connecting properly (first XP recognises the new
hardware, then I click on My Computer and see it, but windows kind of
freezes, and is pretty unresponsive until I unplug it). I've had a
similar issue with my digital camera, which is also connected via USB.
It's also been suggested to me that it's a problem with my
motherboard.

Obviously if it's a PSU problem, I should be able to just order a new
one, but I want to be sure that it IS that problem, before a I buy a
new one. Thanks

 

[larry moe 'n curly]

Ok, my computer has become extremely temperamental

This all started when I came back to my pc and pressed escape for some
task I've forgotten. The computer was unresponsive and something in
the hardware just let out a beep when I pressed. I thought I'd just
leave it alone for a while, but within a few minutes my pc was letting
out a continuous beeping - I left it a few more minutes and then just
restarted it by the button on the box

When I tried to turn it on again it just froze on a blank screen. After
repeating this seemingly endlessly, I noticed that it froze on the
blank screen immediately after the bit of text which said "verifying
DMI pool data...", and also that as the computer started there were
beeps (I thought it was three short beeps, all very close together).

I turned my pc off by the button on the box, and tried to turn it on
again, but this time it was totally unresponsive. Nothing happened.

After a minor heart attack I unplugged all the external stuff again,
and then rebooted it. Again it worked, and instead of backing up stuff
through DVD, I plugged the modem in and backed it up via the network to
my Dad's shiny new laptop. Half way through messing around and
looking on the net for a solution, my keyboard (which was plugged into
a USB port) locked out.

I rebooted (think I just restarted through XP rather than going through
the whole rigmarole of unplugging everything). This time my keyboard
worked but my graphics card didn't. I was seeing XP in some
ridiculously small resolution with about 16 colours. It occurs to me
now, that possibly in my earlier attempt to backup, there had been
other components that XP had been trying to install such as my TV card.

Next time I restarted, I didn't risk using my keyboard - I just had
my monitor and my mouse plugged in at the back, and it worked (sort of)
ok. I haven't tried since (been busy with other stuff, and my PC has
been off for a couple of days).

Does anyone have any idea what I should do?

If you have a digital multimeter, measure the voltages, but don't rely
on the BIOS or any system monitoring software for this because it's
often very inaccurate. Even the cheapest digital meter is more than
accurate enough, but analog meters are another story. Another thing to
try is running the computer with the side panel off, preferrably with a
tabletop fan blowing into it, because if the problem is a marginal PSU,
then cooler temperatures will often make it more reliable. Another
thing to do is try to diagnose the hardware as well as possible in DOS,
such as with the free diagnostics at www.memtest86.com and
www.memtest.org, running each for several hours. Another really good
memory diagnostic is shareware at www.goldmemory.cz.

 

[alexei]

thanks larry! i'm getting hold of a digital multimeter, and i'm
currently running the diagnostic from memtest.org

what kind of information will these diagnostic progs give me?
diagnosing the memory is what, diagnosing the motherboard? the cpu?

thanks again for you time.

 

[Rod Speed]

Ok, my computer has become extremely temperamental
so I'll just post what's been happening and hopefully
someone can shed some light and advise me.

This all started when I came back to my pc and pressed escape
for some task I've forgotten. The computer was unresponsive and
something in the hardware just let out a beep when I pressed.
I thought I'd just leave it alone for a while, but within a few minutes
my pc was letting out a continuous beeping - I left it a few more
minutes and then just restarted it by the button on the box

When I tried to turn it on again it just froze on a blank screen.
After repeating this seemingly endlessly, I noticed that it froze
on the blank screen immediately after the bit of text which said
"verifying DMI pool data...", and also that as the computer started
there were beeps (I thought it was three short beeps, all very close
together).

You can check that if it happens again at
http://www.pcguide.com/ts/x/sys/beep/index.htm

Not knowing much about hardware, I cracked out the Phillips
screwdriver and opened the box up. I poked around a bit, didn't
really change much, and then wired back the monitor and the
mouse and started it up again. This time it worked!

Likely you gave it enough time to cool down.

Not wanting to tempt fate, I immediately made for my important
files and tried to get them backed up onto a DVD. For some
reason this wouldn't work (I think the error message was
something very generic, like "error, XP cannot copy this file).

I turned my pc off by the button on the box, and tried to turn it on
again, but this time it was totally unresponsive. Nothing happened.

The fault may well be temperature sensitive.

Check the cpu fan and ensure that it isnt all clogged up with fur.

After a minor heart attack I unplugged all the external stuff again,
and then rebooted it. Again it worked, and instead of backing up
stuff through DVD, I plugged the modem in and backed it up via
the network to my Dad's shiny new laptop. Half way through
messing around and looking on the net for a solution, my
keyboard (which was plugged into a USB port) locked out.

More evidence of a warmup fault.

You may be able to let it cool down and copy
the uncopied stuff on the second attempt.

I rebooted (think I just restarted through XP rather than going
through the whole rigmarole of unplugging everything). This time my
keyboard worked but my graphics card didn't. I was seeing XP in some
ridiculously small resolution with about 16 colours. It occurs to me now,
that possibly in my earlier attempt to backup, there had been other
components that XP had been trying to install such as my TV card.

Next time I restarted, I didn't risk using my keyboard - I just
had my monitor and my mouse plugged in at the back, and
it worked (sort of) ok. I haven't tried since (been busy with
other stuff, and my PC has been off for a couple of days).

Does anyone have any idea what I should do?

N.b. I *think* it might be a PSU problem.

That is certainly one possibility.

This would seem to fit, because it explains why my DVD
writer drive wasn't working, why sometimes components
aren't working properly, why my PC sometimes won't turn on.

Yes, but a failing motherboard will produce the same effect.

I also have had a kind of continuing issue with my USB pen
drive not connecting properly (first XP recognises the new
hardware, then I click on My Computer and see it, but windows
kind of freezes, and is pretty unresponsive until I unplug it).

That may be a separate issue.

I've had a similar issue with my digital camera, which
is also connected via USB. It's also been suggested
to me that it's a problem with my motherboard.

Yes, it can be either.

Obviously if it's a PSU problem, I should be able
to just order a new one, but I want to be sure
that it IS that problem, before a I buy a new one.

That is harder. With some PSUs the only real way to see if the
PSU is at fault is to try another known good one with what you
have to test it with. While you can use a multimeter to check the
voltages, if its got a high ripple level on one rail, that isnt that
easy to work out with a multimeter, you really need a CRO
to see that properly and they cost a lot more than a PSU.

Check the motherboard for bad caps. These are the usually
blue or black plastic covered post like things that stick up
vertically from the motherboard surface. The tops should
be flat an if any of them have bulged or have leaked, thats
a bad cap and its usually best to replace the motherboard.

Check the cpu temp with something like Everest.
http://www.majorgeeks.com/download.php?det=4181

 

[Poly-poly man]

Hi,

Ok, my computer has become extremely temperamental so I'll just post
what's been happening and hopefully someone can shed some light and
advise me.

This all started when I came back to my pc and pressed escape for some
task I've forgotten. The computer was unresponsive and something in
the hardware just let out a beep when I pressed. I thought I'd just
leave it alone for a while, but within a few minutes my pc was letting
out a continuous beeping - I left it a few more minutes and then just
restarted it by the button on the box

When I tried to turn it on again it just froze on a blank screen. After
repeating this seemingly endlessly, I noticed that it froze on the
blank screen immediately after the bit of text which said "verifying
DMI pool data...", and also that as the computer started there were
beeps (I thought it was three short beeps, all very close together).

Not knowing much about hardware, I cracked out the Phillips screwdriver
and opened the box up. I poked around a bit, didn't really change
much, and then wired back the monitor and the mouse and started it up
again. This time it worked!
Not wanting to tempt fate, I immediately made for my important files
and tried to get them backed up onto a DVD. For some reason this
wouldn't work (I think the error message was something very generic,
like "error, XP cannot copy this file).

I turned my pc off by the button on the box, and tried to turn it on
again, but this time it was totally unresponsive. Nothing happened.

After a minor heart attack I unplugged all the external stuff again,
and then rebooted it. Again it worked, and instead of backing up stuff
through DVD, I plugged the modem in and backed it up via the network to
my Dad's shiny new laptop. Half way through messing around and
looking on the net for a solution, my keyboard (which was plugged into
a USB port) locked out.

I rebooted (think I just restarted through XP rather than going through
the whole rigmarole of unplugging everything). This time my keyboard
worked but my graphics card didn't. I was seeing XP in some
ridiculously small resolution with about 16 colours. It occurs to me
now, that possibly in my earlier attempt to backup, there had been
other components that XP had been trying to install such as my TV card.

Next time I restarted, I didn't risk using my keyboard - I just had
my monitor and my mouse plugged in at the back, and it worked (sort of)
ok. I haven't tried since (been busy with other stuff, and my PC has
been off for a couple of days).

Does anyone have any idea what I should do?

N.b. I *think* it might be a PSU problem. This would seem to fit,
because it explains why my DVD writer drive wasn't working, why
sometimes components aren't working properly, why my PC sometimes
won't turn on. I also have had a kind of continuing issue with my USB
pen drive not connecting properly (first XP recognises the new
hardware, then I click on My Computer and see it, but windows kind of
freezes, and is pretty unresponsive until I unplug it). I've had a
similar issue with my digital camera, which is also connected via USB.
It's also been suggested to me that it's a problem with my
motherboard.

Obviously if it's a PSU problem, I should be able to just order a new
one, but I want to be sure that it IS that problem, before a I buy a
new one. Thanks

You've probably overheated (not you... )

Don't worry about your weird screen problem, it probably was just safe mode.

poly-p man

Backprobe the power connectors anyway. Make sure that they're appoximately
right.

 

[alexei]

To Rod Speed:

I hear what you're saying about leaving it might mean it'd cool down,
but it was turned off for approx 20 seconds while i quickly whipped the
power cord off and then plugged it back in again. if overheating was
the issue, i assume a half minute wouldn't be enough time?

All the fans seem a little dusty, but nothing incredible. i think
they're probably ok

I left my PC running diagnostics for over a day (Goldmemory; it came up
with no errors), with the case open, but with no fan running onto it,
as i had been.

Temps currently are

Motherboard: 30C 86F
CPU: 42C 108F

which seem fine???

my secondary harddrive is 38C 100F (again this seems fine), but my
primary harddrive, according to everest is a bizarre 88C 190F!

this seems way too high!

ok, i'm doing this as i type, another test came up as 103C for my main
drive.

Is there any way this is inaccruate?!?!

The new freeware is called HDDthermometer!?

 

[Rod Speed]

To Rod Speed:

I hear what you're saying about leaving it might mean it'd cool down,
but it was turned off for approx 20 seconds while i quickly whipped
the power cord off and then plugged it back in again. if overheating
was the issue, i assume a half minute wouldn't be enough time?

I didnt mean overheating in the sense you comment on below,
its more likely to be a warmup fault with the motherboard with
a dry joint or cracked trace, and that 20 secs can be enough.

On the other hand, it looks more complicated than that now, see below.

All the fans seem a little dusty, but nothing
incredible. i think they're probably ok

Yeah, they're fine from the temps below.

And they have to be pretty clogged with fur to be a problem, not just dusty.

I left my PC running diagnostics for over a day
(Goldmemory; it came up with no errors),

Thats interesting, that doesnt look like a warmup fault.

with the case open, but with no fan running onto it, as i had been.

Temps currently are

Motherboard: 30C 86F
CPU: 42C 108F

which seem fine???

Yep, no problem with those.

my secondary harddrive is 38C 100F (again this seems fine),
Yep.

but my primary harddrive, according to everest is a bizarre 88C 190F!

this seems way too high!

Yeah, that must be wrong. You can get that with some Maxtors.

ok, i'm doing this as i type, another test
came up as 103C for my main drive.

Yeah, the sensor cant be connected, its completely meaningless.

Is there any way this is inaccruate?!?!

Nope, just ignore it.

The new freeware is called HDDthermometer!?

Did you see any bad caps ? Presumably you would have said if you had.

Can still be a failing motherboard or power supply.
Its obviously cheaper to try a new power supply.

 

[alexei]

thanks for you time rod, and reading back over my last post, sorry for
being so frantic before.

yeah you're right, i couldn't see anything wrong with the caps.

so it's either a failing motherboard or a failing PSU?

and am i right when interpreting one of your earlier posts that a
multimeter will either

a) show me that i have a PSU problem when i do
b) show me that i don't have a PSU problem when i do
c) rightly show me there's nothing wrong with the power supply

in other words, it's worth doing because it could show that the power
supply is dodgy? i can pick one up (fairly) easily tomorrow.

i think my money's on the power supply being dodgy, which is good news
for my wallet - how much would a reasonable motherboard cost me?

thank you again

 

[Rod Speed]

thanks for you time rod, and reading back over
my last post, sorry for being so frantic before.

No problem, it can be a complete pain in the arse when things arent reliable.

yeah you're right, i couldn't see anything wrong with the caps.

so it's either a failing motherboard or a failing PSU?

Yeah, it could be something else, but very unlikely.

and am i right when interpreting one of your
earlier posts that a multimeter will either

a) show me that i have a PSU problem when i do
b) show me that i don't have a PSU problem when i do
c) rightly show me there's nothing wrong with the power supply

Nope, I meant that a multimeter isnt that great for working
out if a PSU is fine with some PSU faults, a known working
PSU is a better way to prove whether the PSU is at fault or
not, particularly when the problem is intermittent as yours
clearly is if it ran the memory checker fine for a day.

in other words, it's worth doing because it could show that the
power supply is dodgy? i can pick one up (fairly) easily tomorrow.

I wouldnt bother, mainly since it ran the memory checker fine for a day.

i think my money's on the power supply being dodgy, which is good news
for my wallet - how much would a reasonable motherboard cost me?

Varys quite a bit depending on what you currently have. You'd need one that
can take the current cpu and memory and I dont know what you have currently.

 

[larry moe 'n curly]

thanks larry! i'm getting hold of a digital multimeter, and i'm
currently running the diagnostic from memtest.org

what kind of information will these diagnostic progs give me?
diagnosing the memory is what, diagnosing the motherboard? the cpu?

MemTest86 and MemTest+ check just the memory, but memory is probably
some of the worst-quality hardware sold now because so much of it is
made with untested chips -- Google for "UTT memory" to read of the
problems with this, and even major memory makers, including Mushkin and
Corsair, now use UTT chips. One that says it doesn't is Kingston, but
they buy whole wafers and slice and test them themselves, and their
track record hasn't been very good with me -- 8 out of 11 or 12 of
their 512MB PC3200 ValueRAMs failed either MemTest86 or Gold Memory.

To test the hard drives, use either the drive manufacturer's diagnostic
or Hitachi Global Storage Technology's (www.hgst.com) Drive Fitness
Test, which can do read testing of
any brand of drive.

www.ocworkbench.com, www.overclockers.com, and www.overclockers.com.au
should have other diagnostics and burn-in programs.