Programs Hogging Resources

[Guest]

While using various programs that have some sort of animation or video on
screen, I find that that program tends to spike (and stay there) in the
30-60% range in terms of CPU usage. Examples: playing a video on Windows
Media Player 10, displaying a page with a flash animation (or game) in
Internet Explorer or Firefox, or playing a streaming video in Internet
Explorer via Windows Media Player.

I have yet to thoroughly test this, but I believe that it occurs with all
video-related software when it's active. Audio tests seem to produce normal
(below 5%) CPU usages.

The video card drivers are up to date with respect to Windows Update and the
manuafacturer's website and the BIOS was recently updated according to the
manufacturer's website.

It's an IBM ThinkPad T21 with Windows XP. SP2 is slipstreamed into the XP
CD that was used for the installation. The same thing happens on an IBM
ThinkPad T40 and a Dell Inspiron 600m. In the case of the Dell laptop, the
CD used had SP1 slipstreamed into it and a SP2 CD was used for the upgrade.

Even after a fresh installation of XP with SP2 slipstreamed onto a newly
reformatted hard drive, the problem still exists. This would mean that the
problem exists with SP2 as the problem is non-existant with a SP1 laptop.

Sorry for the long post. Any help is greatly appreciated.

 

[Star Fleet Admiral Q]

I've noticed the same issue with both WinXP SP2 and Win2k3 SP1 with Media
Player 10 - if it is a video, then the Media Player consumes all resources,
but if it is audio only, then things are fine. Now this isn't a week PC,
this is a Workstation with dual P4 3.2Ghz HT Xeon's with 512k of L1 and 2MB
of L2 cache, 4GB of memory and 2x250GB hard drives, with paging files at
windows control on both drives. Both of the install CD's used original
retail copies of XP/Win2k3, no Service Packs and Autostreamer slipstreamed
SP2/SP1 into the appropriate package before hand, on the appropriate OS XP
SP1/Win2k respectively. I didn't notice this issue with when both were
running Media Player 9... it is to the point where you can't even
<alt><ctl><del> to view task manager until the video completes - the video
plays fine mind you, just Media Player is not responding, nor the rest of
the system. I've brought up Task Manager before hand, then viewed a video,
and it pegs all 4 CPU's out instantaneously. Between the network and Media
player, ain't nothing left.
I've tried researching a little, but haven't found a common denominator
between the two, except Media Player 10, codecs and the hardware. This is a
dual boot system, WinXP Pro SP2 on D: drive (installed first) and Win2k3 SP1
on C: drive (installed last). Other than that, the hardware drivers are
different for Video/Audio/Mouse/Keyboard/Monitor, just about everything
between XP and 2k3, not to mention the machine being less than a year old -
latest BIOS, so I've been at a loss too.
I'm sure if enough people have the issue and it gets reported, MS will look
into it, but I tend to think maybe some type of setup issue on my part,
network, tweaks, don't know right now to venture.

--

Star Fleet Admiral Q @ your Service!

http://www.google.com
Google is your "Friend"

 

[Walter Clayton]

What is the problem? Do you understand the metric being measured?

I have to play dense on this since I run BOINC on my desktop and laptop.
That means I run 100% processor utilization 100% of the time that the
machines are up in normal mode. I play processor and video intensive games,
watch TV, burn CDs/DVDs play movies, run multiple VMs, compile and debug
applications, run SQL both locally and cross platform, and don't have any
problems. And remember, I'm running 100% processor 100% of the time.

To repeat, setting aside what you think may be a problem due to some
misunderstood metric, what exactly do see that is problematic when this
'problem' occurs? Can you no longer run other programs? Does video playback
stutter? Can you no longer open other applications? Does the system become
sluggish/unusable? Are you having to hard reset the machine after any kind
of video playback just so you launch, say, notepad?

Is there an actual Mark I Eyeball problem or do you think simply think there
is one?

 

[Guest]

The problem's not as intense as Star Fleet Admiral Q's problem.

However, while I can't say the same for the IBM ThinkPad T21's, the T30 with
a Mobile Pentium 4 at 2.0 GHz and 256 MB of RAM shouldn't do that. Neither
should my Dell Inspiron 600m with an Intel Pentium-M at 1.3 GHz enhanced with
Intel Centrino Technology and 512 MB of RAM.

If I'm downloading something in the background, and then run a video in WMP
10, the video will pause for a split second every few seconds, in other
words, stutter. I've used the same testing methods as Star Fleet Admiral Q
in terms of monitoring Task Manager.

WMP 10 runs the video fine without anything happening in the background but
will eat up at least 50% CPU on the Dell and at least 40% on the T30.

A flash animation on a website will spike the CPU usage from Internet
Explorer or Firefox to the said levels. However, if I expand Task Manager's
window to cover the flash animation in the background from a web page, the
CPU usage goes down to normal levels of 1-3% BUT still spikes to 70 or 80%
every 10 seconds or so.

Flash games on the machine will lag when there is a lot of animation and not
just some little thing like an ad or something. Again, monitoring Task
Manager shows a spike to around 30-40% CPU and staying constant while the
game is active, and not necessarily "moving".

Dell once mentioned something about SP2 being tailored to each system which
is why the best way to get it is through Windows Update which will scan your
computer for both software and hardware configurations. I don't buy that for
a second, otherwise Microsoft would not have given out all those free SP2 CDs.

The T30's Windows XP was installed from a CD which had XP and SP2 from
Microsoft Licensing. The Dell was done with the original Dell Restore CDs
and the included retail Windows XP with SP1 CD. Essentially, the Dell
Restore CDs are just drivers and factory installed applications.

This is getting quite annoying. Thank you both for offering to help. I
hope that we can get to the bottom of this.

 

[Star Fleet Admiral Q]

Walter,
I have no issues with Macromedia Flash and/or Shockwave videos as mentioned
by the OP, but I do have more extreme results with WMP as expressed by the
OP.

Responding to your questions:

What is the problem? Read my post - you may can get a brief synopsis here,
but more details are in the previous post.

Do you understand the metric being measured? Yes, my experience includes
managing networks and application development in a professional capacity for
some 25+ years now.

Can you no longer run other programs? yes, all 4 CPU's (HT Enabled) or 2
CPU's (HT Disabled) are at 100% - unless task manager is up, you can't bring
it up once a video starts, you must wait until it ends. The machine is
essentially "locked up" until the video finishes.

Does video playback stutter? No, it works perfectly, smooth, beautiful and
real like, on either monitor.

Can you no longer open other applications? Repeat question, although
"programs" and "applications" have different meanings, in this situation the
meaning would by synonymous, where in reality an application is something
such as MS Office (a related group of programs), where a program would be
word, excel, outlook etc. I don't tend to run all the MS Office Suite
(application) programs simultaneously. Maybe word, excel and outlook. IIS
6.0, a development version of MS SQL2k SP4 is running, along with a
firewall, AV software on the Win2k3 side, but I don't even have Office, IIS
or SQL on the XP side, just a firewall and AV software.

Does the system become sluggish/unusable? Yes, as stated above, unusable to
be exact until the video is complete.

I'm not done with my researching as I was just conversing with the "OP" as
something may ring a bell between the two of us that could shed some light
on a possible culprit. I do know one thing, WMP 10 playing a video should
NOT peg 2xP4 HT Xeons at 100%, especially since this didn't happen with WMP
9, a video would barely use maybe 20-30% total of 1 CPU. The audio is just
fine, it may use 5% of 1 CPU.

I've the latest NVIDIA drivers loaded for my Quattro Pro4 512MB dual DVI
video card, I've tried backing up a couple of versions, but either way, it
boils down to video, but since Win2k3 SP1 and WinXP SP2 both come with WMP
10 integrated, there's not much choice in the matter.

A WMP video being viewed via IE say from MSNBC is in no way as CPU intensive
as some the examples provided in your feedback especially considering the
horsepower the machine I'm working with.

Bottom line there is an issue - I've just not narrowed it down to where lies
in the culprit, but just for grins and giggles, I verified the problem with
WMP 10 today, then after ghosting both installations, reloaded the last
ghost image(s) of each OS (WinXP SP1 and Win2k3) as they were I did the
clean install of both OS's with integrated SP2 and SP1 (respective to WinXP
and Win2k3), and went back to MSNBC to view the same video - guess what, no
issue, viewing the WMP 9 video only used maybe 20-30% max. Reimaged with
WinXP SP2 and Win2k3 SP1, guess what, issues back - so my first logical
elimination will be the hardware.

--

Star Fleet Admiral Q @ your Service!

http://www.google.com
Google is your "Friend"

 

[Guest]

Another thing that may or may not be worth noting is that my Dell Inspiron
600m is a powerful little thing.

Before the reformat and SP2 installation, I could easily be playing a flash
game in Firefox, have an audio file playing in the background in WMP 9, and
have multiple simultaneous downloads and/or uploads going in the background
on a resource hungry application which I choose to not reveal. This is all
done without lag/stutter.

So the problem with SP2 is that WMP 10 is consuming much more CPU usage than
it should. The same with Firefox or Internet Explorer when there is a flash
animation and perhaps other forms of multimedia, and downloads can't occur
with either WMP 10 or an Internet Browser in the background because of Sygate
and its CPU usage (~ 30 - 40%) when the download or upload is happening.

Sygate would once or twice a month spike to the levels that it constantly
does in SP2 while in SP1, but those are freak cases with some strange stuff
happening which I have yet to determine.

By the way, if I reformatted again and stuck with SP1, would I still be able
to receive critical updates or is it true that you will not be able to unless
you have SP2 installed? And what's this rumour floating around about SP2
being forced upon users regardless of whether or not they want it?

 

[Star Fleet Admiral Q]

Asin,
I believe only the original XP is no longer supported on the Update
site, but pretty sure XP with SP1/SP2 are still fully supported.

--

Star Fleet Admiral Q @ your Service!

http://www.google.com
Google is your "Friend"

 

[Walter Clayton]

The problem's not as intense as Star Fleet Admiral Q's problem.

However, while I can't say the same for the IBM ThinkPad T21's, the T30
with
a Mobile Pentium 4 at 2.0 GHz and 256 MB of RAM shouldn't do that.
Neither
should my Dell Inspiron 600m with an Intel Pentium-M at 1.3 GHz enhanced
with
Intel Centrino Technology and 512 MB of RAM.

If I'm downloading something in the background, and then run a video in
WMP
10, the video will pause for a split second every few seconds, in other
words, stutter.

Is that streaming video from the 'net or something running local? Two
different possibilities depending on the source. However they both sources
have a common tie; audio and video drivers as well as possibly active AV
scanning...

Have you tried running with background AV scanning disabled?

I've used the same testing methods as Star Fleet Admiral Q
in terms of monitoring Task Manager.

WMP 10 runs the video fine without anything happening in the background
but
will eat up at least 50% CPU on the Dell and at least 40% on the T30.

A flash animation on a website will spike the CPU usage from Internet
Explorer or Firefox to the said levels. However, if I expand Task
Manager's
window to cover the flash animation in the background from a web page, the
CPU usage goes down to normal levels of 1-3% BUT still spikes to 70 or 80%
every 10 seconds or so.

Flash games on the machine will lag when there is a lot of animation and
not
just some little thing like an ad or something. Again, monitoring Task
Manager shows a spike to around 30-40% CPU and staying constant while the
game is active, and not necessarily "moving".

Dell once mentioned something about SP2 being tailored to each system
which
is why the best way to get it is through Windows Update which will scan
your
computer for both software and hardware configurations. I don't buy that
for
a second, otherwise Microsoft would not have given out all those free SP2
CDs.

Good thing you didn't buy that. ;-)

We'll not get into the issues with level 1 tech support. There are numerous
disadvantages to using Windows Update to drop SP2 on the machine whereas
there is *no* disadvange to either downloading the service pack seperately
or ordering/picking up the CD.

The T30's Windows XP was installed from a CD which had XP and SP2 from
Microsoft Licensing. The Dell was done with the original Dell Restore CDs
and the included retail Windows XP with SP1 CD. Essentially, the Dell
Restore CDs are just drivers and factory installed applications.

This is getting quite annoying. Thank you both for offering to help. I
hope that we can get to the bottom of this.

Side note: You may want to grab Process Explorer from
http://www.sysinternals.com - it gives a different perspective on what's
running on the machine.

Was everything honky-dory on SP1? Are you applying all post-SP2 patches or
trying with an unpatched SP2?

I'm thinking, that the issue in your case is video related, but I can't
prove that as yet. :-/

I'll be the first to admit that SP2 causes problems. This is one service
pack that caught everyone, including MS, by surprise.

 

[Walter Clayton]

You're not the only one with issues around WMP10. ;-)

And yes, I've been around for 25+ years myself and still fling bits. Have to
move into management one of these days, but I still like getting down to
bare metal which leaves the current generation of coders a wee bit confused
at times...

One of the thing that I immediately twig to is some one complaining of high
processor utilization with out any other symptoms. Don't get me started on
queue theory and OS thrashing. ;-)

I'm running WMP10 sans technical issues on four completely diverse platforms
with three running NVida and one running ATI video. However it's a PITA to
use compared to WMP9 and prior. That said, I will not and can not rule out
issues with how WMP10 is reacting with your hardware/software mix, however I
tend to disagree with your diagnosis.

issue, viewing the WMP 9 video only used maybe 20-30% max. Reimaged with
WinXP SP2 and Win2k3 SP1, guess what, issues back - so my first logical
elimination will be the hardware.

This isn't a hardware issue per se. Driver issue I can see, but not pure
hardware.

What are you using for Anti-Virus?

 

[Guest]

Sorry about the late reply here. I was using Firefox to view this newsgroup
at the time and the formatting is a little different causing me to miss your
replies in your post.

Is that streaming video from the 'net or something running local? Two
different possibilities depending on the source. However they both sources
have a common tie; audio and video drivers as well as possibly active AV
scanning...

Both. I've tested it on both AVI and WMV files and streaming video from IE
since Firefox does not support the WMP plugin.

The codecs installed on the Dell Inspiron 600m are the latest DivX and XviD
1.0.3. The IBM ThinkPad T30 is a clean installation with nothing but WMP 10.
Other things like QuickTime were added later, but the problem was still
there on a fresh installation of Windows XP with SP2 slipstreamed from
Microsoft Licensing.

Have you tried running with background AV scanning disabled?

There is no Antivirus software on the T30. There is however on the 600m.
The Dell has Norton Antivirus Corporate 9.0.

We'll not get into the issues with level 1 tech support. There are numerous
disadvantages to using Windows Update to drop SP2 on the machine whereas
there is *no* disadvange to either downloading the service pack seperately
or ordering/picking up the CD.

Yeah, so the Dell went from XP with SP1 to SP2 from CD. The IBM went
straight to XP with SP2.

Was everything honky-dory on SP1? Are you applying all post-SP2 patches or
trying with an unpatched SP2?

The IBM was running Windows 2000 Professional before the reformat, so I
cannot say for sure.

The Dell was never touched since I got it almost two years ago from them
using XP with SP1. I decided to reformat and then upgrade to SP2, clearly, a
poor move.

I'm thinking, that the issue in your case is video related, but I can't
prove that as yet. :-/

It has to be video related. Nothing ties Macromedia Flash with WMP 10.
Then again, nothing ties those two with Sygate Personal Firewall during a
download or upload.

Thanks.

 

[Guest]

That's good to know. In that case, I'm going to try and get my Dell back to
its factory fresh state and stick with SP1. Hopefully WMP 10 will work on it
as well as DirectX 9.0c.

 

[Guest]

Forgot one little bit.

The 600m was using SP2 with all updates including optional ones.

The T30 is the same. But the T21's that I worked on had a fresh
installation of SP2 and the problem persisted.