Powerline Ethernet, inconsistent performance

[Yousuf Khan]

I've had a powerline ethernet setup for several years at my home. I
usually find their performance more consistent than Wi-Fi, especially
when streaming video. But right now I'm not experiencing usual conditions.

I'm currently using 3 adapters distributed throughout my home. Current
iteration uses all adapters based on the Powerline HD 200Mbps standard.
Usually I'd be getting over 100Mbps on all adapters, occasionally
dropping down to 50Mbps in the worst cases. Nowadays I'm seeing it drop
down to 5Mbps even.

I haven't added too many new electrical appliances my home, as far as I
can tell, but the quality of the electrical lines seems to have gotten
noisier for no apparent reason. What can be done to improve the
situation? The house is 30 years old.

Yousuf Khan

 

[Same Guy]

Sun, 30 Sep 2012 12:48:22 -0400: written by Yousuf Khan

I've had a powerline ethernet setup for several years at my home. I
usually find their performance more consistent than Wi-Fi, especially
when streaming video. But right now I'm not experiencing usual conditions.

I'm currently using 3 adapters distributed throughout my home. Current
iteration uses all adapters based on the Powerline HD 200Mbps standard.
Usually I'd be getting over 100Mbps on all adapters, occasionally
dropping down to 50Mbps in the worst cases. Nowadays I'm seeing it drop
down to 5Mbps even.

I haven't added too many new electrical appliances my home, as far as I
can tell, but the quality of the electrical lines seems to have gotten
noisier for no apparent reason. What can be done to improve the
situation? The house is 30 years old.

Check to see what lights are on when the BW drops. I had an issue where
halogen lights in the bathroom would render the Homepug network
unusable, so I moved the adapter to a plug in the hallway (which is on
another circuit breaker) then ran CAT cable to the laptop and now have
no problems.

Another option, bring the adapter and the device that will connect to
that adapter to the same room as the adapter nearest the modem/router
and then have them find each other. Once you have that working as
desired, then move them back to the desired location. I have no idea
why, but this worked for me when I added a new laptop and it wouldn't
connect to the Homeplug network.

I only have 2 adapters on my network, so there may be a dynamic with the
3rd adapter, or the device connected to it, that I am not considering.

Hopefully this will help and good luck.

 

[GMAN]

Sun, 30 Sep 2012 12:48:22 -0400: written by Yousuf Khan


Check to see what lights are on when the BW drops. I had an issue where
halogen lights in the bathroom would render the Homepug network
unusable, so I moved the adapter to a plug in the hallway (which is on
another circuit breaker) then ran CAT cable to the laptop and now have
no problems.

Another option, bring the adapter and the device that will connect to
that adapter to the same room as the adapter nearest the modem/router
and then have them find each other. Once you have that working as
desired, then move them back to the desired location. I have no idea
why, but this worked for me when I added a new laptop and it wouldn't
connect to the Homeplug network.

I only have 2 adapters on my network, so there may be a dynamic with the
3rd adapter, or the device connected to it, that I am not considering.

Hopefully this will help and good luck.

I have seen laser printers when active, bring a powerline network to its
knees.

 

[Flasherly]

I've had a powerline ethernet setup for several years at my home. I
usually find their performance more consistent than Wi-Fi, especially
when streaming video. But right now I'm not experiencing usual conditions.

I'm currently using 3 adapters distributed throughout my home. Current
iteration uses all adapters based on the Powerline HD 200Mbps standard.
Usually I'd be getting over 100Mbps on all adapters, occasionally
dropping down to 50Mbps in the worst cases. Nowadays I'm seeing it drop
down to 5Mbps even.

I haven't added too many new electrical appliances my home, as far as I
can tell, but the quality of the electrical lines seems to have gotten
noisier for no apparent reason. What can be done to improve the
situation? The house is 30 years old.

So's mine, 10 older. I've heard is the Romex electrical conduit from
that period is better, perhaps heavier for better efficiency. Ground
faults and fuses are the most apparent changes in code, although I'm
more into "as is," no bank inspections, and money on the barrel when
it comes to sales. Not that I'm scared of electricity, but when I'm
in a hardware and ask a question about electrical replacement parts, I
can usually understand bullshit is when someone's trying to feed it
me. If it were me, I'd want to know what exactly might noise be --
intermittent motor usages, the washer or dryer, my w/heater I wired to
run 30minutes twice a day from a timer box;- semi-intermittent, the AC
unit and refrigerator, lights and entertainment gear. Obvious timing
correlations upon a premise of inducement of noise into the wirings
within. Then there's w/out. I once got so pissed at the TELCO, I
told them I'd set the goddamn modem up on a card table, in the back
yard, from dangling wires from the telephone pole. They wanted me
first to pay monthly money for an added service contract, "just in
case" there was a home issue apart from their responsibilities leading
to the junction box outside. Nevermind (that it gets worse). Next. How
do you measure signal strength and from what level of ambient floor-
level noise, or run-length carrier drops to know if location will
affect performance. When I called in for another internet
subscription option, ditched the TELCO for a cell phone, they brought
along a laptop, which I'd presume measured such ratios for acceptable
quality. Not that I'd try on him such measures, I'm making up, those
guys are always subcontractors, these days, and it's hot and dirty
work without much slack. I usually keep quiet until I see it
functioning. And, by then, all they're interested in is hauling ass.

 

[GlowingBlueMist]

On 9/30/2012 11:48 AM, Yousuf Khan wrote:

I haven't added too many new electrical appliances my home, as far as I
can tell, but the quality of the electrical lines seems to have gotten
noisier for no apparent reason. What can be done to improve the
situation? The house is 30 years old.

Yousuf Khan

Don't forget that electrical noise will propagate from all homes
attached to the same power line transformer, as in up on a power pole or
in a ground based cabinet. You might not have added any new electronic
equipment but who knows what the neighbors have added.

I once lived in a place where the neighbors water heater thermostat was
arching so badly that it would jam the internet AND the cable TV feed at
our place when it was active. It took a while to track down due to it
being intermittent but fortunately the interference was so bad that a
portable AM radio could be used to track down the source.

 

[Flasherly]

On 9/30/2012 11:48 AM, Yousuf Khan wrote:
<snip>





Don't forget that electrical noise will propagate from all homes
attached to the same power line transformer, as in up on a power pole or
in a ground based cabinet. You might not have added any new electronic
equipment but who knows what the neighbors have added.

I once lived in a place where the neighbors water heater thermostat was
arching so badly that it would jam the internet AND the cable TV feed at
our place when it was active. It took a while to track down due to it
being intermittent but fortunately the interference was so bad that a
portable AM radio could be used to track down the source.

Sounds like my *wondrous* $60/US Hong Kong shortwave unit;- really is,
stacks up against a Grundig or any of the tradition names selling for
three times more. Tuning to any band, other than FM, however, and
what I get to hear sounds exactly like Jodie Foster in the blockbuster
_CONTACT_, when it was her destiny to tune into alien life forms
broadcasting 3D imagery on her astrological oscilloscope.

 

[Robert Redelmeier]

I've had a powerline ethernet setup for several years at my home. I
usually find their performance more consistent than Wi-Fi, especially
when streaming video. But right now I'm not experiencing usual conditions.

I'm currently using 3 adapters distributed throughout my
home. Current iteration uses all adapters based on the Powerline
HD 200Mbps standard. Usually I'd be getting over 100Mbps on
all adapters, occasionally dropping down to 50Mbps in the worst
cases. Nowadays I'm seeing it drop down to 5Mbps even.

I haven't added too many new electrical appliances my home,
as far as I can tell, but the quality of the electrical lines
seems to have gotten noisier for no apparent reason. What can
be done to improve the situation? The house is 30 years old.

Some things to try:

1) Check your house/panel ground. They can "weather" and
need tightening/clean-up. Bad grounds are bad news.

2) Make sure all devices are on the same 110V rectification.
Most N.American houses are served from center-ground transformers
with two hot lines, +110V and -110V 180' out-of-phase which can be
used by high-draw appliances (stoves, driers, AC) to make 220VAC.
Approximately half the 110V circuits are on one rectification, the
other half on the other (usually alternating breakers). If you plug
a device into the other hot, it can only get signal by crosstalk
and bleed-through 220 draws. You're lucky to get poor signal.

3) Several houses usually are on the same transformer. [New]
Noisemakers in those houses can affect your signal (as posted
side-thread). You could try to use your other hot, or it may be
possible to install filter caps near your service entrance.


-- Robert

 

[Yousuf Khan]

On 9/30/2012 11:48 AM, Yousuf Khan wrote:


Don't forget that electrical noise will propagate from all homes
attached to the same power line transformer, as in up on a power pole or
in a ground based cabinet. You might not have added any new electronic
equipment but who knows what the neighbors have added.

I once lived in a place where the neighbors water heater thermostat was
arching so badly that it would jam the internet AND the cable TV feed at
our place when it was active. It took a while to track down due to it
being intermittent but fortunately the interference was so bad that a
portable AM radio could be used to track down the source.

I've usually found that there is no danger from neighbours because our
own breaker box filters out anything from outside. In fact, I've seen
even within some houses with multiple breaker boxes (i.e. somebody added
an addition to the house), that you can't get a signal through between
two plugs on different breaker boxes.

However, inside apartment buildings that might not be the case, as
sometimes adjacent apartments might share a single breaker.

Yousuf Khan

 

[Flasherly]

I've usually found that there is no danger from neighbours because our
own breaker box filters out anything from outside. In fact, I've seen
even within some houses with multiple breaker boxes (i.e. somebody added
an addition to the house), that you can't get a signal through between
two plugs on different breaker boxes.

However, inside apartment buildings that might not be the case, as
sometimes adjacent apartments might share a single breaker.

Yousuf Khan

My breakers -- they're gold. They hide them behind glass classes,
locked, w/ alarms. A single 20amp flip-breaker costs $75-120US. When
I trip one, once in a blue moon, I grab one of my handy-dandy Cree LED
flashlites -- go out to the garage, above the circuit box, to the two
main-service fuses/filters feeding the circuit box below -- and pull
that.

When a breaker is tripped through excessive current, even having
removed current of that leg isn't enough;- restoring the circuit path
by flipping back the tripped breaker to on causes current present to
blow it permanently. Taking out the main service first, restoring,
flipping back the tripped breaker with no power, and not a problem;-
it'll also trip itself next time, functionally, although I'm not
saying I necessarily enjoy pushing my luck, either.

Seriously, when I last looked for a breaker I called a place quite a
distance away, a big bunker spread over acres and acres of land in an
industrial area. A private home salvage operation pulling materials
from homes that had been through fire & catastrophe and other acts of
nature. I found a 60-amp 220V to replace the dryer's 30-amp service
for $10, maybe 15 bucks. I like plugging a couple welders into it,
and wasn't in the mood to play the local hardware stores $1000 for a
ef'n fuse or rewire in a separate service.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Seriously, when I last looked for a breaker I called a place quite a
distance away, a big bunker spread over acres and acres of land in an
industrial area. A private home salvage operation pulling materials
from homes that had been through fire & catastrophe and other acts of
nature. I found a 60-amp 220V to replace the dryer's 30-amp service
for $10, maybe 15 bucks. I like plugging a couple welders into it,
and wasn't in the mood to play the local hardware stores $1000 for a
ef'n fuse or rewire in a separate service.

You must like hot wires!

 

[David]

You must like hot wires!

Or smoking wall framing.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Or smoking wall framing.

I doubt that's going to be hot enough to smoke. What it might do to
the framing over the years, though...

 

[Flasherly]

You must like hot wires!

Gaseous, too, acetylene and oxygen tanks. Nasty, nasty stuff in the
heat -- leathers and a face mask, banging and chipping on something
before incessantly grinding away in a spray of slag -- almost as much
in itself a process to formed metallurgical substances, by testing
subsequently in stages a shape for strength. Neighbors take one look
at the gear, however, hurry the children inside and act as if I'm all
about decapitating cats. I've no inkling whatsoever why, and it's
utterly pretentious poppy-cock on their part to act that way;- the
only difference between common woodworking garage tools, is they don't
exuberantly throw finished table craft down the driveway, into the
street, to see if it breaks upon impact.

 

[Flasherly]

I doubt that's going to be hot enough to smoke. What it might do to
the framing over the years, though...

Conduit. Besides a short run outside at the breaker box, twice up and
down, inside galvanized pipe across 10' linearly from the dryer.
Easily enough physically to grasp for heat, although do have to be
careful of appliance people if there's a great sale w/ free delivery/
setup -- a fit between adjacent 220V compressor, washer, freezer, or W/
H. Neat unless I catch them doing the ol' double-take.

 

[Yousuf Khan]

Have you added any light dimmers in any of the branch circuits?
Those throw off a horrendous amount of RFI, at least the ones meant
for incandescent lights. They turn nice smooth AC sine waves into
truncated sine waves (with the feet and tales chopped off), and the
fourier transform of the result has frequencies all over the spectrum.
I once installed a ceiling fan in the kitchen of a house I had, and when
my car approached the carport, which was 70 feet from the kitchen,
the output of the car's AM radio turned to noise if the fan's dimmer
was on.

*TimDaniels*

No, nothing like that has been added.

However, I did fix a broken light bulb socket in the basement. It's just
one of those simple pull-cord outlets, with no dimmers of any kind on
it. I doubt that would have had anything to do with it.

Yousuf Khan

 

[Yousuf Khan]

Okay, here's an update on the situation. I pulled the Powerline adapter
from the location it's been in for years, and put into a different power
plug location a little further away. Fixed the issue instantly! Now I've
gone from 5Mbps back upto over 100Mbps again! Just had to reposition the
the router a little and added a longer ethernet cable between the router
and the powerline adapter. The longer ethernet cable is a also a going
across a bit visibly on the floor, but at least the performance is back
upto where it used to be!

Yousuf Khan

 

[Rodney Pont]

Okay, here's an update on the situation. I pulled the Powerline adapter
from the location it's been in for years, and put into a different power
plug location a little further away.

Have you tried a power cycle on it in the original position?

 

[Yousuf Khan]

Have you tried a power cycle on it in the original position?

I might try it back in its original position sometime later, likely
it'll work based on Murphy's Law, but right now I'm just happy that it's
working well at its current location.

Yousuf Khan