Pissed off by uncountable Install & reboots!

[Vince C.]

Hi.

This is a complaint. Yes! I've just made a brand new install of W2K server and -
I swear - I can't count the number of times I had to reboot during the setup
phase. But I can tell you I wasted at least 50% of my time just rebooting and
waiting for the box to calm down before logging on (Ok, I know I don't have to
but I already got into troubles by logging just too early - my server is a test
machine and not that recent).

Here's the approximative count:

1. Install from diskettes & CD - reboot once to get into the GUI (45 minutes)
2. Install & configure AD - reboot
3. Install nVidia drivers from the disk - reboot
4. Install service pack 4 - reboot
5. Fine tune to get rid of errors and warnings (e.g. event 5781/5782) - reboot
(after each of 5-6 attempts)
6. Install VIA chipset - reboot
7. Install FastTrack driver - reboot
8. Install firewall - reboot
9. Connect to the Internet and apply patches (WU) - reboot
10. Install IE6.01 SP1 - reboot
11. Install IE patches - might reboot, it did!

This is the optional part but since I only have this machine, let's go:

12. Install motherboard USB-specific drivers - reboot
13. Uinstall NetBEUI from every network interface (installed by USB drivers,
even on the Internet card! wow! be secure! use NetBEUI on your Internet
adapter!) - reboot
14. Uninstall Netware client and protocol from every NIC (installed by USB
drivers) - reboot
15. Install sound drivers - reboot
16. Install up-to-date nVidia drivers - reboot
17. Install DirectX - reboot
18. Install Media Player - reboot
19. Install DVD Player - reboot

What else?... Well, I think it's finished. Had it been an ordinary W2K Pro,
there would have been all 19 steps.

On my machine it takes approx. 5 minutes to reboot completely due to the
hardware checks. Select reboot; Windows is: saving your settings (what damn
settings?), closing session, shutting down, rebooting; wait for BIOS POST, till
FastTrack finishes scanning, drive detection, booting windows, till windows:
starts, preps network connections (almost 10 seconds), applies security policy;
wait till firewall activates, wait till disk calms down; log on, hear the
beautiful logon sound, wait till you get control and... Aaaaaaaah! finally you
can type and use your menu!...

It only takes 2 or 3 minutes to pick up the driver, click and install. The
reboot process took me then about 25 x 5 min. which gives 2 hours just watching
my PC reboot!

And on IBM servers (X series) it can take much more than 5 minutes for a reboot
to complete.

I've installed Linux in one go with all the drivers, kernel, system, GUI,
software aso. I just had to reboot my PC once: after I compiled my kernel.

That's why I'm pissed off.

Vince C.

 

[Scott Harding - MS MVP]

Sounds like this is the first Windows box you've installed in a while.

 

[Bob I]

Try Decaf.

 

[Giuseppe Carmine De Blasio]

I've installed Linux in one go with all the drivers, kernel, system, GUI,

software aso. I just had to reboot my PC once: after I compiled my kernel.

Looking at all the unnecessary steps you took and the wrong order you made
your install, the root of your problem is simply that you have no idea of
how to install a Windows OS. Talk to somebody that knows first, THEN whine
about it.

If it was a Windows 2003 Server, the reboots should've been two. But you
already knew that, isn't it?

A word of advice: stick to Linux.

Pepe
Milano, Italy

 

[Vince C.]

Sounds like this is the first Windows box you've installed in a while.

Well, in fact, no. I've installed a couple of dozens of W2K machines.
But given the time it takes (I'm not talking about clones or whatever),
I'll stop at that point. Not even XP makes me smile a little bit.

But it's a looong long story. At first I *did* enjoy Windows. But now
things look a bit less pleasant. It's not *only* about Windows but also
about what MS tells customers. I just want to understand why so many
companies are not willing to make the step and migrate.

Note I have understood, long ago, already. A short computation tells you
how much money you first have to pay. Then migrate, migrate, migrate...

It's migration hell. Even with .Net. "Problem is solved with .Net",
"Problem is solved with Windows 2003", "problem is solved with
Longhorn". And, of course, customers must pay and migrate, don't they?

That principle is one I don't agree. *NIX systems work the same since
the very first day. No need to migrate, no need to reboot. Those
platforms are rock stable for decades.

I've already considered the amount of money a small company - say 10
people - has to put on the table, just for licenses. I' talking about
prices made here in Belgium. Almost 25.000€ ! For 10 people, i.e. MS
Office, W2K server, SQL Server, Exchange 2000 Server, Windows XP for
clients. Given what small companies already have to invest just for
their birth, it's just too much.

I don't agree with the principles.

"Sorry sir, we don't sell Windows 2000 anymore, you have to migrate"!
No! definitely no! And I can tell you this is the kind of sentence you
hear every time you ask MS resellers here in Belgium. Trust me.

And finally this number of reboots just makes me sick. Had there been a
way to avoid them, I don't care. I just wanted to stress on the fact
that *all* those steps *require* a reboot individually.

And I know I'm not required to reboot but I can tell you cases where I
did install everything or many things in one go and I ran into troubles.
Other platforms simply require *no* reboot at all. I just prefer
installing everything separately because I don't trust it.

But of course, Windows Server 2003 demands only two reboots. So what?
ask every company to migrate every time there is a new version of Window$?

Vince C.

 

[Vince C.]

Looking at all the unnecessary steps you took and the wrong order you made
your install, the root of your problem is simply that you have no idea of
how to install a Windows OS. Talk to somebody that knows first, THEN whine
about it.

If it was a Windows 2003 Server, the reboots should've been two. But you
already knew that, isn't it?

A word of advice: stick to Linux.

Thanks for your kind advice, Giuseppe. But frankly, do you really
believe everyone has a Windows 2003 server at home? Read carefully
first. I was not *only* talking about W2K server but *also* about W2K
Pro. XP's just a few reboots less.

And read my response to Scott Harding. Probably you'll get an idea.

I've had the chance to make my studies when computers started to spread
all over the market. Since the I've studied and worked with DOS, Windows
3.1, 95, 98, NT4, 2000 and XP.

Now I'm 35 and fed up. If you can't understand this, there's nothing I
can do for you.

Vince C.

 

[Vince C.]

"Giuseppe Carmine De Blasio" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le
message de [...]

I'm just very politely asking you to spare us the whining, that's all.

First I didn't mention I did the install in that order. So your first
comment was just inappropriate.

But - have you read my reply to Scott Harding? - if you want to stay clear
with what you call my whinning, do you have a better place for that?

Bizarrely if I want to tell people Windows is the best OS I'd have got to
install - not true - you wouldn't mind. Now that I don't agree, strangely
enough this is not the place. So when you want to tell people you disagree,
what are you doing? Write an article in the local community book? or chose
the same widespread communication channel, newsgroups? Of course, if MS news
servers are reserved to people that fully trust and love Windows, I would
understand.

This is again one of the worst behaviours I've ever had to face with people
who are blindly trusting and sharing Microsoft's way. Sorry but when I
install an OS on my machine, I normally *grant* that OS access to my
machine. When I install Windows I feel more like being driven by Microsoft
and my machine doesn't belong to me anymore.

Change your hardware three times and you must phone to MS to get a new
key... Disgusting. Do you really think this will prevent software piracy? I
mean is this the only way? Strangely enough Linux - for instance - doesn't
suffer from this. And there are companies that live and earn money from
Linux. I'm just telling you MS way is wrong.

See the delay before a bug is finally fixed. I remember a bug in the search
engine of NT4 that prevented you from searching words in files if they were
on a CD-ROM. I found that before SP3 was released and it was finally fixed
in SP6. But this is only an example. And I'm not talking about problems that
were not solved nor replaced with a free workaround... Just upgrade and pay.

See how MS considers a true bug unimportant - on what criteria? Do you agree
how MS drops their products and tells you you have to migrate? Have you ever
developped using VB, VInterdev, used SOAP, aso?

Do you agree an operating system that everyone is supposed to install in a
sooooooo simple way doesn't even activate the firewall when connected to the
Internet? This is only an example, again. And you know there are many people
on the planet that have Windows without even knowing what a firewall is.
Just see the increasing number of virus hits and probes you receive every
day. But of course, things will be much better with the upcoming version of
Windows. Are you still one of them?

Do you agree you should upgrade Windows just to have a browser (MSIE, of
course) that is compliant with the HTML standards? This is just another
example. Many web standards were defined in 1999 and 2000, like CSS2. MSIE
is the only browser (makes me sick to call it a browser) on the planet with
that level of perfection (laughing) that doesn't fully support CSS2. Even
mozilla and Netscape do it far better. And MSIE is over 90% spread over the
world simply because people do *not* know there is something else that is
much better. A shame. I now agree with DoD: MS must remove IE from their
platform so that people have the choice and a chance to come accross
something worth using. But again, this is only an example.

There are plenty of clues why MS is doing wrong. And I'm not the only one
who claims this. If you don't want to believe me and blindly trust MS,
that's your problem. But only consider many companies in Germany, France and
many other countries are already changing their mind just because they are
fed up spending their money for the sake of Microsoft. And that's a hundreds
of thousands of users in the same time. And do you want to know what they're
putting instead? UN*X like OSes. Not only Linux.

Vince C.

 

[Giuseppe Carmine De Blasio]

[merciful snip of whining]
I'm sorry that you have reading and comprehension problems, I really am. But
that's not my fault.

Have a nice day, Vince.

 

[Vince C.]

[merciful snip of whining]
I'm sorry that you have reading and comprehension problems, I really am. But
that's not my fault.

Have a nice day, Vince.

Thanks. Have a nice day, too.