Perfectdisk Stops Prefetch - Greg Hayes?

[Bill]

Ok, this is an annoying problem.

I've been trying for three weeks to get Perfectdisk v6 to work with XP's
prefetching. I've reinstalled Windows XP three times now, and every
single time, XP stops cleaning up the prefetch folder.

Perfectdisk seems to work fine doing its thing, and XP works fine, aside
from this issue. But no matter what settings I try, they will not work
together to let Windows manage the prefetch files, regardless of the PD
setting.

XP just stops cleaning up the prefetch folder like it should every three
days. Instead what happens is obsolete files do not get removed, and the
folder just continues to grow in size. This happens from the moment I
install PD.

I've Googled for info, and I've checked the Registry settings to confirm
that they are correct, but it still doesn't work. I noticed that PD does
change the registry back and forth if I change the settings in PD. If I
set PD to manage the files, they get moved by PD as expected. But then
prefetch does not maintain the folder. If I set PD to let Windows manage
the files, then it skips the prefetch files, but still the folder does
not maintain itself. Note that I have not changed any of the services
and the Task Scheduler is working fine.

I currently have PD installed...I re-installed XP last Monday and XP
still has NOT cleaned up the prefetch folder. I have dozens of PF files
that are obsolete, dated all the way back to when I installed SP1 on
Monday evening at 17:50 hours. Normally XP would have cleaned up the
folder at least twice now.

I've read numerous posts from a Raxco rep named Greg Hayes, and I hope
he reads this, but unfortunately his suggestions do not work. I can't
imagine I've missed a setting, not three times in a row.

I'd really like to get it to work as I like what PD does with the
pagefile, MFT, etc. And it's faster than the XP defrag'er and is easily
scheduled. But unless the prefetch folder is maintained as it is when I
don't install PD, it's not much use to me.

Thanks for any help provided.

 

[Richard Urban]

I have been using PerfectDisk for about a year now. My prefetch folder is
maintained as it should be. I know this is not much help, but..........

--
Regards:

Richard Urban

aka Crusty (-: Old B@stard

 

[Bill]

I have been using PerfectDisk for about a year now. My prefetch folder is
maintained as it should be. I know this is not much help, but..........

Yeah thanks.

I figure I've missed something, but I can't imagine what. I've
reinstalled XP and PD three times in three weeks, and get the same
problem each time.

It's weird since I've read other users have no issues.

 

[Richard Urban]

Are you using some 3rd party utility (such as Prefetch Clean and Control)
which can lock the prefetch folder options? I have mine pretty much locked
down (on purpose) and don't see any changes, unless I unlock it and allow it
to monitor all programs and start up items. Then, the changes fly!

--
Regards:

Richard Urban

aka Crusty (-: Old B@stard

 

[=?iso-8859-1?B?u21ydGVlqw==?=]

I don't use PD, but I wanted to mention that my PF folder never ever exceeds 130 entries. That is over a 3 year time frame. Some of the entries are older than 3 days but if I open applications that I haven't used for some time the older PF entries then go bye-bye and are replaced with enties for the other program.

Sort your folder by date, see what the oldest are, open some unsed items and then see if the list changed.

--
Just my 2¢ worth
Jeff
__________in response to__________
| Richard Urban wrote:
|
| >I have been using PerfectDisk for about a year now. My prefetch folder is
| >maintained as it should be. I know this is not much help, but..........
|
| Yeah thanks.
|
| I figure I've missed something, but I can't imagine what. I've
| reinstalled XP and PD three times in three weeks, and get the same
| problem each time.
|
| It's weird since I've read other users have no issues.

 

[Bill]

Are you using some 3rd party utility (such as Prefetch Clean and Control)
which can lock the prefetch folder options?

No, nothing extra.

I have a pretty clean installation, just a few programs like email,
news, virus scanner, firewall, etc.

When running without PD, I only have about 70-80 PF files. Right now I
have 217 files, most of them for installation programs and dozens of
Rundll32 PF files, with various dates going back a week.

 

[Bill]

I don't use PD, but I wanted to mention that my PF folder never
ever exceeds 130 entries. That is over a 3 year time frame. Some of
the entries are older than 3 days but if I open applications that I
haven't used for some time the older PF entries then go bye-bye and are
replaced with enties for the other program.

Right now I have 217 prefetch files, and only half a dozen installed
programs. Normally without PD installed, I would have about 70-80 PF
files, the oldest being 3-4 days old. But the ones I have now date all
the way back to last Monday, many of them from installation programs and
Rundll32 PF files.

Sort your folder by date, see what the oldest are, open some unsed
items and then see if the list changed.

The prefetching works on files that are opened. For instance, when I
open Agent to read newsgroups, the PF file for it is updated to the
current date and time. But older unused and missing programs should not
have PF files older than 3-4 days.

 

[Quaoar]

Ok, this is an annoying problem.

I've been trying for three weeks to get Perfectdisk v6 to work with
XP's prefetching. I've reinstalled Windows XP three times now, and
every single time, XP stops cleaning up the prefetch folder.

Perfectdisk seems to work fine doing its thing, and XP works fine,
aside from this issue. But no matter what settings I try, they will
not work together to let Windows manage the prefetch files,
regardless of the PD setting.

XP just stops cleaning up the prefetch folder like it should every
three days. Instead what happens is obsolete files do not get
removed, and the folder just continues to grow in size. This happens
from the moment I install PD.

I've Googled for info, and I've checked the Registry settings to
confirm that they are correct, but it still doesn't work. I noticed
that PD does change the registry back and forth if I change the
settings in PD. If I set PD to manage the files, they get moved by PD
as expected. But then prefetch does not maintain the folder. If I set
PD to let Windows manage the files, then it skips the prefetch files,
but still the folder does not maintain itself. Note that I have not
changed any of the services and the Task Scheduler is working fine.

I currently have PD installed...I re-installed XP last Monday and XP
still has NOT cleaned up the prefetch folder. I have dozens of PF
files that are obsolete, dated all the way back to when I installed
SP1 on Monday evening at 17:50 hours. Normally XP would have cleaned
up the folder at least twice now.

I've read numerous posts from a Raxco rep named Greg Hayes, and I hope
he reads this, but unfortunately his suggestions do not work. I can't
imagine I've missed a setting, not three times in a row.

I'd really like to get it to work as I like what PD does with the
pagefile, MFT, etc. And it's faster than the XP defrag'er and is
easily scheduled. But unless the prefetch folder is maintained as it
is when I don't install PD, it's not much use to me.

Thanks for any help provided.

I believe there is a disconnect here: PerfectDisk only optimizes the
layout.ini file. Windows does not manage Prefetch except to defrag
layout.ini every three days. The buildup of files in Prefetch is
managed by neither Windows or PerfectDisk: managing Prefetch has always
required a manual delete of the files or the use of a Prefetch manager.

From Raxco:
http://www.raxco.com/support/windows/pd60/perfectdisk60_faqs.cfm

What is the difference between having PerfectDisk manage the boot files
and having the system manage the boot files?
By default, Windows XP monitors application launches and identifies
those files loaded during the process. Windows stores this information
in the prefetch folder (usually Windows/Prefetch) in a file called
layout.ini. Every 3 days, Windows does a "partial" defrag of the files
indicated in layout.ini - attempting to make sure that they are
contigous so that your system will boot faster and applications will
launch faster.

If PerfectDisk has been configured to let Windows manage the boot files,
PerfectDisk will mark the files indicated in layout.ini as unmovable and
will not attempt to defragment these files or move them elsewhere on the
drive as it is expecting Windows do perform this task every 3 days. This
can prevent PerfectDisk from doing a complete defrag job.

If PerfectDisk has been configured manage the boot files, PerfectDisk
will read layout.ini and will make sure that the files indicated are
contiguous and the location is optimized

As PerfectDisk is a much more powerful disk defragmenter than the
built-in defragmenter, letting PerfectDisk manage the boot files will
ensure that these files are optimized for the fastest possible
performance.

For more information about the Windows prefetch process, please see
Microsoft's Windows XP Performance Guide.

Q

 

[Bill]

I believe there is a disconnect here: PerfectDisk only optimizes the
layout.ini file.

No, PD optimizes the actual files listed in the layout.ini file, but not
according to their loading patterns within the PF files.

Windows does not manage Prefetch except to defrag
layout.ini every three days.

No, Windows manages the layout.ini file, runs a partial defrag of the
files listed in layout.ini according to the prefetch folder files in
order to lay them out for faster loading times (similar to 98's
alignment process), and also deletes older and/or obsolete PF files.

Normally Windows XP manages the prefetch folder all automatically. You
never need to delete any files in that folder as any files not used in
the last 3-4 days is automatically removed. The advice some people offer
to clean out the prefetch folder is unnecessary.

Only if there is a setting change does XP alter the handling of the
prefetch files.

The buildup of files in Prefetch is
managed by neither Windows or PerfectDisk: managing Prefetch has always
required a manual delete of the files or the use of a Prefetch manager.

No, Windows manages the prefetch files completely on its own. No special
manager is required.

Thanks for trying to help, but in the last few weeks, I've read just
about everything there is on the net about prefetching. I know quite
well how it's supposed to work, what process is called, by what API, and
how often. In fact, it works just fine in XP alone until I install
PerfectDisk, and then it screws up.

I just can't find what's being changed by PerfectDisk, and I'm hoping
someone knows what it is.

 

[Bill]

I have been using PerfectDisk for about a year now. My prefetch folder is
maintained as it should be. I know this is not much help, but..........

What settings are you using for managing the files?

 

[Richard Urban]

Stand alone computer - let perfect disk manage all files

--
Regards:

Richard Urban

aka Crusty (-: Old B@stard

 

[Quaoar]

No, PD optimizes the actual files listed in the layout.ini file, but
not according to their loading patterns within the PF files.


No, Windows manages the layout.ini file, runs a partial defrag of the
files listed in layout.ini according to the prefetch folder files in
order to lay them out for faster loading times (similar to 98's
alignment process), and also deletes older and/or obsolete PF files.

Normally Windows XP manages the prefetch folder all automatically. You
never need to delete any files in that folder as any files not used in
the last 3-4 days is automatically removed. The advice some people
offer to clean out the prefetch folder is unnecessary.

Only if there is a setting change does XP alter the handling of the
prefetch files.


No, Windows manages the prefetch files completely on its own. No
special manager is required.

Thanks for trying to help, but in the last few weeks, I've read just
about everything there is on the net about prefetching. I know quite
well how it's supposed to work, what process is called, by what API,
and how often. In fact, it works just fine in XP alone until I install
PerfectDisk, and then it screws up.

I just can't find what's being changed by PerfectDisk, and I'm hoping
someone knows what it is.

You continually respond "no" when there is no validity to your
contention of what the OS performs on Prefetch.

Windows XP Performance
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/winxppro/evaluate/xpperf.mspx
Defragmentation
I/O performance is strongly influenced by the layout of files on disk.
Files and directories that are heavily fragmented or dispersed across
the disk will hurt performance. While Windows XP will automatically
reposition some files to improve performance, this will generally be
done infrequently and will usually include only a small fraction of the
files on the disk. Therefore, it is a good idea to defragment the disk
following an installation.

Once every three days, by default, Windows XP will perform a partial
defragmentation and adjust the layout of the disk based upon current
use. The files to be moved are written in the file Layout.ini (found in
the Prefetch directory under the System Root directory).

Q

 

[Bill]

Stand alone computer - let perfect disk manage all files

Thanks. I've tried that setting too, and PD will optimize the files at
the front of the drive as expected.

But unfortunately, prefetch clean up still does not occur.

 

[Bill]

You continually respond "no" when there is no validity to your
contention of what the OS performs on Prefetch.

No validity?

You just posted it yourself:

Windows XP Performance
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/winxppro/evaluate/xpperf.mspx

Once every three days, by default, Windows XP will perform a partial
defragmentation and adjust the layout of the disk based upon current
use. The files to be moved are written in the file Layout.ini (found in
the Prefetch directory under the System Root directory).

While this page does not mention that XP cleans up the folder, it does
mention that XP will "adjust the layout", which is what maintaining the
folder is all about.

Read my other post in this thread for info and links.

 

[R. McCarty]

I missed the original post, so I'm speculating here.

Perfect Disk doesn't factor into the Prefetch operations,
it only uses the Layout.Ini file to do the file placement.

The .pf files are occasionally purged by Windows XP.
If you monitor the prefetch folder (Status Bar), you can
see the .Pf count changes over several days of use. The
task scheduler will execute the ProcessIdleTasks to
update the Layout.ini file. You can manually invoke it by
typing in the run box
rundll32.exe advapi32.dll,ProcessIdleTasks

Perfect Disk will handle the Layout.Ini as indicated by
the light blue colored blocks in PD's display pane.

The remainder of the disk layout is done by last modified
date, excluding Directories and $MFT data.
That's why you need to occasionally do an off-line
defrag to take care of those system files.
*After each run, click the "Most Fragmented Files" tab
on the results Window. If any $--- files are listed it's
time to do an Off-line defrag on the drive.

You also should check each disk's properties in PD.
Right Click each drive, Properties, Off-Line settings &
make sure the appropriate check-boxes are tic'd.

On some disks the default values for Rarely & Frequently
modified days can be changed to limit unnecessary file
re-arrangements. (Disks with only music or other media,
or disks that hold large data modules like Streets and Trips.)

 

[Bill]

I missed the original post, so I'm speculating here.

No problem, I'll repeat info as needed.

Perfect Disk doesn't factor into the Prefetch operations,
it only uses the Layout.Ini file to do the file placement.

That's what it's supposed to do, but it's doing something to prefetch on
my computer as it's been almost two weeks now and I have dozens of
obsolete PF files in the prefetch folder which are up to two weeks old.

The .pf files are occasionally purged by Windows XP.

Yes, XP takes care of the folder just fine and has done so for the last
two years when I just used MS Defrag.

However, as soon as PerfectDisk was installed XP stopped cleaning up the
folder.

To give you some background, I first installed PerfectDisk v6 almost a
month ago to try it out. It seemed to work great, defragging very well,
offline defrags put the MFT and Pagefile in good spots, etc.

But a week after installing it, I glanced at the prefetch folder and
noticed that old files were in there dating back to the day I installed
PerfectDisk. Some PF that pointed to PD setup and dozens of instances
of Rundll32 files. That's when I realized something was wrong with
prefetching.

So I checked all the settings in PD and then went looking for info on
prefetching. I read everything I could find on the net, including
Raxco's website.

I thought maybe it was a fluke, so I did a second clean install of XP,
updates, and then installed PD and some usual programs like Agent,
Eudora, etc. After a week, same thing - XP stops managing the prefetch
folder and I'm forced to clean up the folder myself.

So I tried another clean install of XP, updates, and install PD and some
programs. Used different PD setting this time, having PD manage all of
the Layout.ini files instead of the default. Once again after a week,
same thing - XP stops managing the prefetch folder.

Now I did read a thread about PD not disabling prefetch:
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=...&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=perfectdisk+prefetch

"PerfectDisk doesn't disable prefetch. What PD does is to disable the
partial defrag that WinXP is performing approximately every three days
to attempt to make sure that the files in the prefetch folder are
contiguous."

And that seems to be what is happening on my system. However, if PD
stops the 3 day partial defrag, and XP's prefetch just keeps building
more and more PF files, then there is an obvious issue here with the
prefetch folder growing out of control.

Perhaps if PD would clear the Prefetch folder and change the prefetching
to "boot files" ONLY in the Registry
(HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Session
Manager\Memory Management\PrefetchParameters) to Enableprefetcher=2 then
it would stop building PF files and just keep the Layout and
NTOSBOOT-BOODFAAD files, then it would do its job.

But while this keeps the prefetch folder nice and tidy, it effectively
reduces performance because prefetching of applications is no longer in
effect. Boot times will be the same, but opening programs will be
slightly slower.

So I tried using the setting to let Windows manage the files, which
changes the Registry key
(HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\OptimalLayout)
back to OptimalLayout=1, however that still does not let XP clean up the
folder, partial defrag does not start to work without reinstalling
Windows again.

This is the odd part. I have PerfectDisk in the same config as this
user, yet his computer seems to manage the prefetch folder just fine
whereas mine just keeps adding more and more PF files without cleaning
up the older entries.

I've tried uninstalling PerfectDisk, but whatever changes it makes, are
not undone by removing PD. Only a clean install of Windows seems to fix
it.

I posted this in hopes that Greg Hayes of Raxco Software would see it,
but apparently he hasn't posted here in about a month, nor in any other
group in over two weeks according to Google.

Perhaps he's on holidays...

 

[Richard Urban]

Here is what I have done Bill.

1. I install PerfectDisk.
2. Using "prefetch Clean and Control" (3rd party utility), I purge my
prefetch folder. I also make certain that the prefetch parameter is set for
boot files AND programs.
3. I reboot to set the parameter!
4. I open each, and every, one of my "main" programs - those I consider
important. This is to get the prefetch info into the folder. I also reboot
numerous times to be certain that "all" of the boot info is placed into the
folder.
5. After about 5 boots, I change the prefetch parameters to "boot only"
6. I reboot one more time to lock the parameter.

My prefetch folder "never changes" after this - and I like it that way. All
my boot info is there and only those programs I choose to use frequently
puts info there. Now I just stop worrying about the damn thing, as it has
been proven to me that it doesn't change - even after 4-5 months.

--
Regards:

Richard Urban

aka Crusty (-: Old B@stard

 

[Bill]

Here is what I have done Bill.

1. I install PerfectDisk.
2. Using "prefetch Clean and Control" (3rd party utility), I purge my
prefetch folder. I also make certain that the prefetch parameter is set for
boot files AND programs.
3. I reboot to set the parameter!
4. I open each, and every, one of my "main" programs - those I consider
important. This is to get the prefetch info into the folder. I also reboot
numerous times to be certain that "all" of the boot info is placed into the
folder.
5. After about 5 boots, I change the prefetch parameters to "boot only"
6. I reboot one more time to lock the parameter.

My prefetch folder "never changes" after this - and I like it that way. All
my boot info is there and only those programs I choose to use frequently
puts info there. Now I just stop worrying about the damn thing, as it has
been proven to me that it doesn't change - even after 4-5 months.

Thanks for the suggestion.

That may be a good solution for those who want to force PerfectDisk and
XP to work together. I've even considered doing something similar
myself, manually adjusting the settings in XP's registry.

I'm not sure if XP actually uses the prefetch data to load those
programs, though it probably does.

Two problems exist as well, the first is the dynamic nature of
prefetching is lost, perhaps we can live with that. The second is the
fact that updating a program requires you to go through the same
procedure for each and every program change, which relies on the first
issue to take care of itself.

I'd prefer not to have to do that.

 

[Al Dykes]

I have been using PerfectDisk for about a year now. My prefetch folder is
maintained as it should be. I know this is not much help, but..........

--
Regards:

Richard Urban

aka Crusty (-: Old B@stard

I assume you're talking about \WINDOWS\prefetch.

FWIW I never bothered to look at the cache before. I just looked and
it's 3.5MB. Since then it's been a month since I defraged.)

I've used PD on my XP system for over a year, with the defaults. I do
standalone defrag after major software install/reinstall and
a normal one when I've moved a lot of big files around.

This machine is a not-too-speedy midrange laptop that can use all the
help it can get for disk speed. I run really fat software like
OpenOffice. I run _lots_ of different programs on most days.

BTW; I set swap space to a fixed size (Min=Max in control panel, based
on what I know about the applications I run) and then do a standalone
defrag to get it into one segment. That never has to be done again.

IMHO If a disk has lots of free space then anal defraging becomes
less important to a decent achine and average applications.

I'm not sure that actuall buys me anything in practical terms. I open
lots of applications and leave them open, for days. The cache should
only help when starting a program for the first time.

 

[Greg Hayes/Raxco Software]

"If I set PD to let Windows manage the files, then it skips the prefetch
files, but still the folder does not maintain itself. "

Configuring PD to manage or NOT manage the layout files has no impact on
whether Windows still continues to "manage" the contents of the prefetch
folder or what is contained in layout.ini. Windows will still add/remove
files to this folder and update layout.ini as Windows deems appropriate.

If PD is configured to manage the boot files or all of the layout files, all
that is happening is that PD is telling Windows (via registry key) to NOT
perform the partial defrag approx every 3 days. Other than that, pd is
either reading or not reading the contents of layout.ini and taking action
on those files based on how PD is configured - either placing or marking
them as unmovable and leaving them where they currently reside on the
partition.

- Greg/Raxco Software
Microsoft MVP - Windows File System

Disclaimer: I work for Raxco Software, the maker of PerfectDisk - a
commercial defrag utility, as a systems engineer in the support department.

Want to email me? Delete ntloader.