Partition help

[mag]

We're about to take delivery of a new (actually a Dell refurb) computer with
a 320 hard drive and XP Pro pre-installed. I've always previously had a
small C drive for the OS and programs and a large secondary drive, called D,
for data, so a single hard drive of this size is making me nervous! I think
it probably should be partitioned but I have no idea how to go about doing
it. Should I get something like Partition Magic? One friend suggested wiping
the hard drive, reinstalling the OS and partitioning at that point.

Any advice will be appreciated.

Maggie

 

[Bill in Co.]

We're about to take delivery of a new (actually a Dell refurb) computer
with
a 320 hard drive and XP Pro pre-installed. I've always previously had a
small C drive for the OS and programs and a large secondary drive, called
D,
for data, so a single hard drive of this size is making me nervous! I
think
it probably should be partitioned but I have no idea how to go about doing
it. Should I get something like Partition Magic? One friend suggested
wiping
the hard drive, reinstalling the OS and partitioning at that point.

Any advice will be appreciated.

Maggie

Both ideas sound good (including partitioning, and getting Partition Magic).
Whether or not you need to wipe the drive kind of depends on what the Dell
refurb has on it - was it cleaned up professionally, or is this just a hand
me down from some other customer, with all his/her stuff on it (if that, I
would definitely reformat, and start afresh).

 

[philo]

We're about to take delivery of a new (actually a Dell refurb) computer with
a 320 hard drive and XP Pro pre-installed. I've always previously had a
small C drive for the OS and programs and a large secondary drive, called D,
for data, so a single hard drive of this size is making me nervous! I think
it probably should be partitioned but I have no idea how to go about doing
it. Should I get something like Partition Magic? One friend suggested wiping
the hard drive, reinstalling the OS and partitioning at that point.

Any advice will be appreciated.

Maggie

Nope,
no problem at all with having just one large partition.

Don't bother fooling with it.

If you insist on changing the partitioning scheme though,
partition magic should to the job

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

We're about to take delivery of a new (actually a Dell refurb) computer with
a 320 hard drive and XP Pro pre-installed. I've always previously had a
small C drive for the OS and programs and a large secondary drive, called D,
for data, so a single hard drive of this size is making me nervous! I think
it probably should be partitioned

There is no "should." It depends on you and how you use it. This
article I recently wrote on planning your partitions should help you
decide: http://www.computorcompanion.com/LPMArticle.asp?ID=326

but I have no idea how to go about doing
it. Should I get something like Partition Magic? One friend suggested wiping
the hard drive, reinstalling the OS and partitioning at that point.

There's more one than one way to go about it, but with a new computer,
starting over from scratch might be easiest.

 

[mag]

Ken,

I just read your article, thanks, and you've mentioned the reason I said
maybe I "should" partition the drive, which is that we backup the data to an
external hard drive every day. I thought having a partition just for data
would make the process easier but perhaps it doesn't really matter.

I'm thinking now that if I'm going to wipe the hard drive anyway, maybe I'll
get a smaller hard drive and continue with what I currently do, ie have the
OS and programs on a small C drive and the data on a large D drive.

Thanks,

Maggie

 

[bojimbo26one]

We're about to take delivery of a new (actually a Dell refurb) computer with
a 320 hard drive and XP Pro pre-installed. I've always previously had a
small C drive for the OS and programs and a large secondary drive, called D,
for data, so a single hard drive of this size is making me nervous! I think
it probably should be partitioned but I have no idea how to go about doing
it. Should I get something like Partition Magic? One friend suggested wiping
the hard drive, reinstalling the OS and partitioning at that point.

Any advice will be appreciated.

Maggie

Doesn`t matter how many partitions , if the drive crashes everything
goes . ( Not being rude ) .

 

[db ´¯`·.. >]

xp pro would have its
own partitioning console.
therefore no need for a third party
software to do it.

further, if your pc comes
with preinstalled software
you will likely have restore
disks or a hidden partition
with a backup of the system
files.

if you choose not to set
a partition aside just for your
personal data, then those files
will be co mingled with the
system files.

at which time if you find
a need to use the restore
disks, the personal files
will be wipe away.

[there are very good reasons
why "partitioning" exist and
why the tools are provided.
unfortunately, some people
have decided that partitioning
(like chkdsk) is now a taboo.]

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

Ken,

I just read your article, thanks,

You're welcome. Glad to help.

and you've mentioned the reason I said
maybe I "should" partition the drive, which is that we backup the data to an
external hard drive every day. I thought having a partition just for data
would make the process easier but perhaps it doesn't really matter.

You can do it regardless of how you partition, but it's usually
somewhat easier if you can just back up your data partition.

I'm thinking now that if I'm going to wipe the hard drive anyway, maybe I'll
get a smaller hard drive and continue with what I currently do, ie have the
OS and programs on a small C drive and the data on a large D drive.

That's fine--just don't make that "small" C: too small.

 

[Bill in Co.]

Doesn`t matter how many partitions , if the drive crashes everything
goes . ( Not being rude ) .

True, but that's the worst case scenario. Having separate partitions makes
it much easier to back up and restore things - short of that final straw
scenario (e.g: like if WinXP gets messed up).

Of course, better yet is to image the drive to another separate drive, as
you're sorta implying.

 

[Anna]

We're about to take delivery of a new (actually a Dell refurb) computer
with a 320 hard drive and XP Pro pre-installed. I've always previously had
a small C drive for the OS and programs and a large secondary drive,
called D, for data, so a single hard drive of this size is making me
nervous! I think it probably should be partitioned but I have no idea how
to go about doing it. Should I get something like Partition Magic? One
friend suggested wiping the hard drive, reinstalling the OS and
partitioning at that point.

Any advice will be appreciated.

Maggie

Ken,

I just read your article, thanks, and you've mentioned the reason I said
maybe I "should" partition the drive, which is that we backup the data to
an
external hard drive every day. I thought having a partition just for data
would make the process easier but perhaps it doesn't really matter.

I'm thinking now that if I'm going to wipe the hard drive anyway, maybe
I'll get a smaller hard drive and continue with what I currently do, ie
have the OS and programs on a small C drive and the data on a large D
drive.

Thanks,

Maggie

Maggie:
Let me give you another point-of-view to consider...

You are certainly correct in your objective to "backup the data to an
external hard drive every day". Not only is this a worthwhile objective, it
really should be your *primary*, if not exclusive objective. And when we use
the term "data" in this context, consider that this "data" includes
*everything* on your day-to-day working HDD, i.e, your XP operating system
(OS), all your programs/applications, as well as your user-created data. So
that by a comprehensive backup your data you can, in effect, have a copy of
your HDD. A precise copy whereby should your day-to-day HDD fail or your
system becomes unbootable because of a corrupt OS, you would have the
wherewithal to restore your system to a bootable, functional state with a
minimum of fuss. What better backup system can one have?

You can achieve this through the use of a disk-cloning (or disk-imaging
program). A comprehensive backup program that you could use on a daily basis
should you want.

There are a number of disk-to-disk cloning programs available. The program
we greatly prefer as a disk-to-disk cloning program - see
http://www.fssdev.com

It's extremely simple to use even for an inexperienced user, reasonably
quick in operation, and quite effective. There's virtually no learning curve
in undertaking the disk cloning process as one navigates through the few
easy-to-understand screens with a final mouse-click on the button on the
screen which will trigger the disk-cloning process. After undertaking one or
two disk-cloning operations it should take the user no more than 20 seconds
or so to get to that point.

The significant advantage of the Casper 4.0 disk cloning program compared
with other disk cloning programs that we're familiar with is its ability to
create *incremental* disk clones following the creation of the original
(first) disk clone. Employing what Casper calls its "SmartClone" technology
the program can create subsequent disk clones of the source HDD usually at a
fraction of the time it takes to create a "full" disk clone. This results in
a decided incentive for the user to undertake frequent complete backups of
his or her system knowing that they can create "incremental" disk clones in
a relatively short period of time. Understand that this "incremental disk
clone" is a *complete* clone (copy) of the "source" HDD.

So, for example, in your case where your interest would be in backing up
your system on a daily basis, following the first time you clone the
contents of your internal (boot) HDD to your USB external HDD (USBEHD), it
would probably take no more than two or three minutes each day to thereafter
perform the disk-cloning operation. Again, bear in mind that your USBEHD
would contain the *complete* contents of your internal HDD. While the USBEHD
would not ordinarily be bootable in an XP OS, it would be a simple matter to
clone the contents of the USBEHD back to a internal HDD should a restoration
of the system be necessary. Again, what better backup system can one have?

The Casper 4.0 program is also capable of scheduling the disk-cloning
process on a daily, weekly, or other time period selected by the user so
that should you prefer you could arrange for automatic backups at
pre-determined times.

There's a trial version available (see above link) although it's somewhat
crippled but it will give you a good idea as to how the program works. And I
can provide further details about using the program should you be
interested.

The downside to the Casper 4 program as compared with the Acronis and most
other disk-cloning programs is the cost of the program which comes to $49.95
for the program + $9.95 for the "Casper Startup Disk" (the program to create
the bootable CD containing the Casper program). So it's more expensive than
the others. But in our view, well worth the additional cost considering its
overall effectiveness and the fact that one will be using the program many,
many times over the weeks & months ahead. AFAIK, the program is available
only through download from the developer.

Another possible downside to the Casper 4 program (depending upon your
interests) is that it's really not designed to create "generational" copies
of your system. Some users like to maintain complete copies of their system
at various points in time. To that end a disk-imaging program is more
practical since to accomplish that objective using a disk-cloning program
such as Casper 4 the user would obviously need a fair number of HDDs to
serve as the recipients of the clones at these various points in time. But
based on our experience I would say that the vast number of users (and I
would assume you are one of them) are basically interested in only
maintaining a current up-to-date copy of their system and have little or no
interest in maintaining "generational" copies
of such. But that may be a consideration for you & others.

Anyway, all of the above is predicated on the basis that you're seeking a
reliable program to backup your *entire* day-to-day booting HDD, including
the XP OS, all your programs & applications, and your user-created data, in
short - everything that's on your "source" HDD. And you want an effective
simple-to-use program to do this on a systematic routine basis and do so
reasonably quickly. To that end we've found this Casper 4.0 program really
fills the bill. So I would suggest you take a look at it.

I really don't think there is any significant need for you to
multi-partition your HDD. There's no reason why you can't work effectively
with a single-partitioned HDD that includes *all* the data on your HDD. And
simply create the files & folders to organize your work on that single
partition. This is especially so should you use a disk-to-disk cloning
program such as the one I've suggested. In our experience this supposed
additional security one gains from separating data through partitioning is
more myth than reality in the day-to-day world of personal computing. While
there's no terrible harm in multi-partitioning your 320 GB HDD should you
want to go that route, I honestly do not feel it's of any real value to the
vast majority of PC users.

So, in summary, my advice would be to think more in terms of establishing &
maintaining a comprehensive backup system along the lines I've suggested
rather than multi-partitioning your HDD.
Anna

 

[db ´¯`·.. >]

"driveimage xml" is
free and works very
well.

however, cloning an
entire partition each
day and in part as a
method to preserve
personal files that are
created daily and are
co mingling with system
files is unwise for a
number of reasons.

unless the user does
not have the tools to
partition or the additional
disk space, then placing
all of ones eggs in a
basket is best to
be avoided, like
misguided justifications.

 

[Bill in Co.]

I want to add to this that when I suggested partitioning, it was not to
separate all program data into into its own "data" partition, but rather to
create room for a backup partition, and perhaps use a separate partition for
huge work files - like video work.

That's what I have done. I've never used a separate partition for
programs, and another one for user data, preferring to keep them together,
so that when I back it up, it's ALL together and easily restorable and
updateable, in a one shot operation.

 

[Anna]

I want to add to this that when I suggested partitioning, it was not to
separate all program data into into its own "data" partition, but rather to
create room for a backup partition, and perhaps use a separate partition
for huge work files - like video work.

That's what I have done. I've never used a separate partition for
programs, and another one for user data, preferring to keep them together,
so that when I back it up, it's ALL together and easily restorable and
updateable, in a one shot operation.

Bill:
I really believe it's a serious mistake for most users to create a "backup
partition" on the same physical HDD that one is backing up, assuming that
partition (or any other area on the disk) will serve as the *only*
repository of the backed-up data. How will a user be able to recover/restore
his or her system should the HDD become defective which I'm sure you're
aware is not a particularly rare event?

Is it not more prudent to store one's backup data on another HDD -
preferably an external HDD or under certain circumstances another internal
HDD?
Anna

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

I want to add to this that when I suggested partitioning, it was not to
separate all program data into into its own "data" partition, but rather to
create room for a backup partition,

A partition for backup is only very slightly better than having no
backup at all. Most things that will cause the loss of your first
partition will simultaneously cause the loss of the "backup."

If you care about your data, I urge you to reconsider this plan.
Secure backup needs to be on removable media, not stored in the
computer, and especially not on the same physical drive.

and perhaps use a separate partition for
huge work files - like video work.

Up to you, of course, but I don't understand the rationale for that.
Why does that need a separate partition?

 

[mag]

Thanks to everyone for all the input.

I'm in the habit of only cloning the OS and programs etc when there's a
change that makes the current clone outdated.

There are changes to the data, by which I mean primarily music and
wordprocessing, every day which is why I backup to an external hard drive
on a daily basis. We're in the music business and that stuff is our life!

I also backup email and the email address book to the external hard drive on
a regular basis since we do so much business that way.

I have to say, the idea of backing up to a partition on the same hard drive
is very scary! If the drive goes, everything goes.

I still haven't decided what to do, but if I stay with one hard drive I will
partition it so that the data is separate and backup that partition on a
daily basis.

(Sorry if top-posting is gauche, but there's too much to reply to!)

Thanks again,

Maggie

 

[Bill in Co.]

Bill:
I really believe it's a serious mistake for most users to create a "backup
partition" on the same physical HDD that one is backing up, assuming that
partition (or any other area on the disk) will serve as the *only*
repository of the backed-up data. How will a user be able to
recover/restore
his or her system should the HDD become defective which I'm sure you're
aware is not a particularly rare event?

Is it not more prudent to store one's backup data on another HDD -
preferably an external HDD or under certain circumstances another internal
HDD?
Anna

I am storing my backup on an external USB Hard Disk Enclosure these days.
And obviously that's the best approach.

But in the past, at least, I've kept a backup partition free on the main
internal drive, and used that to good advantage (this was for my Win98SE
computer), when I did a "clean (re)install of Windows w/o formatting, by
leaving most folders in place, except Program Files and Windows (i.e., the
fast way), by having copies of my Program Files and Windows folders right
there on call on the second partition, ready to be called upon, as needed.
And of course this way it doesn't rely on being able to read the USB
external drive (which may be more problematic at the DOS or lower level
operations).

 

[Bill in Co.]

A partition for backup is only very slightly better than having no
backup at all. Most things that will cause the loss of your first
partition will simultaneously cause the loss of the "backup."

If you care about your data, I urge you to reconsider this plan.
Secure backup needs to be on removable media, not stored in the
computer, and especially not on the same physical drive.

As I replied to Anna:

I am storing my backup on an external USB Hard Disk Enclosure these days.
And obviously that's the best approach.

But in the past, at least, I've kept a backup partition free on the main
internal drive, and used that to good advantage (this was for my Win98SE
computer), when I did a "clean (re)install of Windows w/o formatting, by
leaving most folders in place, except Program Files and Windows (i.e., the
fast way), by having copies of my Program Files and Windows folders right
there on call on the second partition, ready to be called upon, as needed.
And of course this way it doesn't rely on being able to read the USB
external drive (which may be more problematic at the DOS or lower level
operations).

Up to you, of course, but I don't understand the rationale for that.
Why does that need a separate partition?

Actually I have two fairly large (40 GB) partitions, one for all audio
restoration work, and one for any video and/or DVD restoration work. Those
partitions can easily fill up with a large number of audio and video files
to work on, so it just makes a lot of sense, in my case. So, it's not so
much a question of "need", but rather just preference.

I mean, face it, one could use only 1 partition for everything, if one
wanted. But I don't think its the best idea, though (for all the reasons
I've given above).

 

[MrMachine]

Bill:
I really believe it's a serious mistake for most users to create a "backup
partition" on the same physical HDD that one is backing up, assuming that
partition (or any other area on the disk) will serve as the *only*
repository of the backed-up data. How will a user be able to recover/restore
his or her system should the HDD become defective which I'm sure you're
aware is not a particularly rare event?

Is it not more prudent to store one's backup data on another HDD -
preferably an external HDD or under certain circumstances another internal
HDD?
Anna

Anna,

I have a 1TB HDD and an external case for it. I want to clone the C and
D partitions from the computer's 500GB HDD to the 1TB HDD. Of course,
there will be some unused space on the external. Can I put additional
folders/files onto that external drive without compromising the clone?

Thanks,
LeRoy

 

[Anna]

Anna,

I have a 1TB HDD and an external case for it. I want to clone the C and D
partitions from the computer's 500GB HDD to the 1TB HDD. Of course, there
will be some unused space on the external. Can I put additional
folders/files onto that external drive without compromising the clone?

Thanks,
LeRoy

LeRoy:
Absolutely. No problem whatsoever. I'm assuming, of course, that these
"folders/files" would be programs of one sort or another and/or user-created
data and *not* operating system files on your C: partition.

I assume you would understand that in the event you cloned back the contents
of your USB? external HDD to your internal HDD for restoration/recovery
purposes should that need arise, those add'l files/folders would become part
of the cloned contents from your external HDD to the internal one. Should,
for some reason, you not want such, it would be best to originally set up
your external HDD with an add'l third partition to store those files/folders
and then simply clone the partitions you desire back to the internal HDD.
Anna

 

[MrMachine]

LeRoy:
Absolutely. No problem whatsoever. I'm assuming, of course, that these
"folders/files" would be programs of one sort or another and/or user-created
data and *not* operating system files on your C: partition.

I assume you would understand that in the event you cloned back the contents
of your USB? external HDD to your internal HDD for restoration/recovery
purposes should that need arise, those add'l files/folders would become part
of the cloned contents from your external HDD to the internal one. Should,
for some reason, you not want such, it would be best to originally set up
your external HDD with an add'l third partition to store those files/folders
and then simply clone the partitions you desire back to the internal HDD.
Anna

Thanks for your reply. The external enclosure for the 1TB SATA HDD is
USB, and the additional files/folders would not be OS files. In the
event of a HDD failure on the computer, would I be able to replace the
500GB SATA internal HDD with the 1TB, rather than cloning it back onto a
new HDD I would install on the computer? I checked that the MB I'm using
will support the 1TB SATA drive.

Additionally, what programs(s) would you suggest I use to accomplish the
cloning and/or adding another partition to the 1TB external? I have
Acronis TI 10 already, but you have recommended Casper for cloning.

I do appreciate your willingness to help! Thanks again.

LeRoy