OT? XP forever? :)

[willbill]

OT? XP forever?

http://news.zdnet.com/2100-1040_22-6177619.html

www.itwire.com.au/content/view/11487/53/

www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9017339&intsrc=news_ts_head

to my mind it suggests waiting until PL2
is released

(but M$ has shown that they are less and less
interested in releasing patch leveles and
more and more interested in having users do
very long on-line updates to their systems)

fwiw, my experience with XP pro has been OK.

bill

 

[Yousuf Khan]

OT? XP forever?

I wonder if Microsoft is pirating its own software? How could it afford
to sell it for so little money? Didn't they say it was impossible?

Microsoft aims to reach next billion PC users | CNET News.com
http://news.com.com/Microsoft+aims+to+reach+next+billion+PC+users/2100-1003_3-6177431.html

 

[willbill]

I wonder if Microsoft is pirating its own software? How could it afford
to sell it for so little money? Didn't they say it was impossible?

Microsoft aims to reach next billion PC users | CNET News.com
http://news.com.com/Microsoft+aims+to+reach+next+billion+PC+users/2100-1003_3-6177431.html

interesting. $3 bucks for <"Student Innovation Suite (Office
and Windows) to governments that agree to directly purchase PCs
for students to use in their schoolwork and at home.">
strikes me as a loss leader

of course, it's not XP Pro, but still "Windows XP Starter Edition,
Office Home and Student 2007, Windows Live Mail Desktop and
several educational products" seems like quite a lot for $3

otoh, Gates didn't get to be the richest man in the
world by giving stuff away

<"Poole said that in the developed world Microsoft has largely
reached its goal of a PC on every desktop and in every home.
"The PC is an expected appliance in the home for access to
information, for schoolwork," Poole said. But, he said, that
still leaves five out of every six people on the planet
without a PC.">

which makes me think of Nick Cage's recent Lord of War
comment: <"...how do we arm the other 11?">

makes me wonder exactly which XP version Dell is
selling, not to mention what they are paying for it

maybe doing all those ongoing free on-line OS updates
really doesn't cost M$ all that much?

it also makes me wonder when M$ is going to pull
the plug on support for XP?

bill

 

[Yousuf Khan]

interesting. $3 bucks for <"Student Innovation Suite (Office
and Windows) to governments that agree to directly purchase PCs
for students to use in their schoolwork and at home.">
strikes me as a loss leader

of course, it's not XP Pro, but still "Windows XP Starter Edition,
Office Home and Student 2007, Windows Live Mail Desktop and
several educational products" seems like quite a lot for $3

Just recently Microsoft introduced the XP Starter Edition for $25. I was
commenting back then that's still way too overpriced. So it looks like I
was right, they have now not only dropped the price of XP Starter but
also thrown in Office in the mix.

otoh, Gates didn't get to be the richest man in the
world by giving stuff away

Actually, yes he did. The original piracy of DOS and Windows was what
was responsible for the ubiquity of Windows throughout the universe.

It used to be known as the Windows loss-leader. They'd give away Windows
(by knowingly allowing piracy), and pull people into the Microsoft
sphere with it, so they'd buy Office and other things. How else would a
piece of crap software like Windows become so popular? If it weren't for
piracy, Windows wouldn't have spread so vast and fast.

makes me wonder exactly which XP version Dell is
selling, not to mention what they are paying for it

maybe doing all those ongoing free on-line OS updates
really doesn't cost M$ all that much?

The press release said that Dell will be selling it with XP Home and XP
Pro again.

As far as Microsoft, it usually keeps supporting Windows versions about
2 years after it stops selling it. This time Microsoft also announced
that it's going to stop selling XP (the announcement was just a few days
ago). But now just a few days later, Dell announces that it's selling it
again. With the huge volume of Dell, I think Microsoft may have to
change its mind about not selling XP to OEMs anymore. If this were
Gateway, or somebody else, then they'd just tell them to f*k themselves.
But this is Dell, it may not be the biggest PC maker on the planet
anymore, but it's still pretty close. And if HP joins them, then between
they control over 30% of the PC market, and MS will have to relent. All
of the other 2nd tier and lower players will probably begin selling XP
again. Hanging onto XP might be the only thing that saves Microsoft from
an DRM backlash against Vista.


Yousuf Khan

 

[nobody]

I wonder if Microsoft is pirating its own software? How could it afford
to sell it for so little money? Didn't they say it was impossible?

Microsoft aims to reach next billion PC users | CNET News.com
http://news.com.com/Microsoft+aims+to+reach+next+billion+PC+users/2100-1003_3-6177431.html

3 > 0

Simple math. Without this offer, the PCs would anyway run
Windows/Office, probably Pro edition, but the payment of $3 would go
to a local pirate instead.

NNN

 

[Yousuf Khan]

3 > 0

Simple math. Without this offer, the PCs would anyway run
Windows/Office, probably Pro edition, but the payment of $3 would go
to a local pirate instead.

I still think this is overpriced for Microsoft software. I'll await when
Microsoft offers XP Media Centre or XP Pro, along with a corporate
version of Office for $3. At least the cost of the CD/DVD disc plus and
the bit of content might be worth it at that point. %^)

 

[chrisv]

Simple math. Without this offer, the PCs would anyway run
Windows/Office, probably Pro edition, but the payment of $3 would go
to a local pirate instead.

Simple evil, you mean. This is nothing more than an immoral M$ plan
to halt the growth of open-source (read: GNU/Linux) in developing
countries.

 

[Yousuf Khan]

Simple evil, you mean. This is nothing more than an immoral M$ plan
to halt the growth of open-source (read: GNU/Linux) in developing
countries.

More than likely, Microsoft knows that it's lack of success with Vista
is probably a game-changing situation where Microsoft software is no
longer the default option on computers. It can't let that get away.

I was once talking to somebody in a developing nation. I was asking them
how come Linux hasn't taken off yet over there? It seemed like the ideal
option for that country. He said that Linux hasn't taken off because
nobody sees it being pirated over there! Amusing considering that Linux
is free so there's no point in pirating it.

Yousuf Khan

 

[Jan Panteltje]

Simple evil, you mean. This is nothing more than an immoral M$ plan
to halt the growth of open-source (read: GNU/Linux) in developing
countries.

Exactly, it is contra Linux.
But will it help them? There is also a political anti-US and as such anti-M$
factor.

And Vista demands higher performance hardware, with more memory... something
developing countries cannot afford anyways (and fast internet connections).
So Balmersoft would have to finance the extra hardware too.
Balmersoft may go the way of many of the big Mammoth corporations, to
be finally split up and sold in pieces and or become the toy of financing
groups.

 

[nobody]

Balmersoft may go the way of many of the big Mammoth corporations, to
be finally split up and sold in pieces and or become the toy of financing
groups.

Quite possibly. But we all will be pushing the grass before that
happens.]


NNN

 

[nobody]

Simple evil, you mean. This is nothing more than an immoral M$ plan
to halt the growth of open-source (read: GNU/Linux) in developing
countries.

No, just simple math. They plan to sell 10^9 licenses at that price -
that's $3,000,000,000 dropping straight to the bottom line of MSFT.
Moreover, at least some of these customers will graduate to Pro
version, and at least some - granted, very few - of those grads will
pay for the license. That is a new revenu source that otherwise would
be completely surrendered to pirates.
And the fact that they MSFT is going to profit at the expense of
"open-source (read: GNU/Linux)" - that's what is called competition,
and that's what capitalism is based on. Yes capitalism is "immoral",
but the alternative is communism - so far miserably failed everywhere
it was tried.

NNN

 

[chrisv]

No, just simple math.
Wrong.

They plan to sell 10^9 licenses at that price -
that's $3,000,000,000 dropping straight to the bottom line of MSFT.

Wrong. (Some "simple math".)

And the fact that they MSFT is going to profit at the expense of
"open-source (read: GNU/Linux)" - that's what is called competition,
and that's what capitalism is based on.

Wrong. Charging different prices in different areas to stamp-out
potential competitors is NOT fair competition. It's immoral. It's
wrong.

There's a reason why predatory pricing is illegal.

Yes capitalism is "immoral",

Wrong again, but Micro$oft sure is.

 

[nobody]

Wrong. (Some "simple math".)

What exactly is wrong with the math? When the software is already
written, it costs next to nothing to sell a license - even the media
is optional and would be supplied at extra cost to the buyers, if you
paid attention to the url in OP. The sales of media and documentation
to the ones who order it would probably offset the cost of generating
keys and distributing them to the buyers (probably just a few cents
apiece anyway). You don't think $3,000,000,000 is an amount worth
bothering? I'd happily retire on a tiniest fraction thereof.

Wrong. Charging different prices in different areas

That's normal practice throughout the world and across the industries.
How about the medicines that are sold in Canada for half the price,
and in 3rd world for cents on a $ of what we pay here in the US?

to stamp-out
potential competitors is NOT fair competition. It's immoral. It's
wrong.

There's a reason why predatory pricing is illegal.

Initial cost of Linux is 0 (zero). Therefore, to fit to "predatory
pricing" definition, M$ should actually pay to the takers, which is
not the case, unless you count in the cash spent in those parts of the
world by Gates foundation on health care, education, etc. But then,
nothing and nobody prevents Torvalds from out-donating Gates ;-))))

Wrong again, but Micro$oft sure is.

Not that I am a big fan of M$ or Bill Gates. I have my own set of
complaints about the quality and useability of M$ products - though
Windows was not that bad since NT4 SP3. Hell, even much-maligned 3.x
was useable if you set it up right, used it correctly, and didn't have
overexpectations regarding its multitasking abilities. Even Vista may
be a good product when there will be found the ways to work around the
DRM infection or, better yet, disable it altogether so the CPU cycles
are not wasted on all the encoding-decoding. I just wish Gates stole
another idea from Steve Jobs and started selling non-DRM versions,
even at higher price ;-)

NNN

 

[Robert Redelmeier]

That's normal practice throughout the world and across the
industries. How about the medicines that are sold in Canada
for half the price, and in 3rd world for cents on a $ of what
we pay here in the US?

Geographic market price segmentation may be commonly practiced,
but it is dubious ethically and legally problematic. The EU
will [currently] enforce anti-graymarket contract provisions.
The US will not. Freedom-of-contract vs first-sale & antitrust.

Initial cost of Linux is 0 (zero). Therefore, to fit to
"predatory pricing" definition, M$ should actually pay to

Linux wouldn't complain of predatory pricing. I'm not even
sure Linus has standing to. Dell and other MS customers
could sue. Since MS is an adjudged monopolist (not reversed
on appeal as were the remedies), it has to be especially careful.

Since they haven't sued, either MS has pressured them (the means would
be interesting), or MS is using some "developmental gift" loophole.

Not that I am a big fan of M$ or Bill Gates. I have my own set
of complaints about the quality and useability of M$ products
- though Windows was not that bad since NT4 SP3. Hell, even
much-maligned 3.x was useable if you set it up right, used

My experience is similar. MS products are useable for small
values of "use" and with high amounts of skilled maintenance.

Beyond the mediocre software, there are legitimate complaints
about MS abuse of monopoly and other legal non-compliance.

-- Robert