OT whatever happened to:

[John Corliss]

May I ask why you won't go to XP? It IS a bit expensive, but it's worth it.
It's like butter. Don't shoot yourself in the foot by rejecting XP for the
wrong reasons.

Bob,
Something about mandatory product activation, inferior drivers for
older hardware, bloat, lack of privacy, etc.
I ran Knoppix from my CD again the other day and got my printer to
work perfectly. In fact, more than perfectly: it's output was
definitely superior to that obtained via the Windows driver. Also, I
surfed a little with the included Mozilla and was amazed at the speed
with which pages opened. Next, I started "The Gimp" (included with the
Knoppix download) and was pleased to see that it works perfectly in
Linux. The Windows port is definitely not as good.

Yeah, Linux takes effort to get going, but that will change one of
these days now that China, Japan and Korea have decided to collaborate
on a version of it. Don't forget, they make almost all of the hardware
we use these days and they also create all the drivers for the
hardware that they manufacture. Think about it.

 

[Joachim Ziebs]

Hi Keith!

SuSe 9.0 Personal. It installed OK, seems to recognise my HP scanner
(USB), but won't operate it. the USB ADSL modem (Speedtouch330) isn't
supported, nor is the Canon i550 USB printer

I don't have a Speedtouch ADSL modem, so I can't help there. For the printer
check Linuxprinting.org for a compatible working model:
http://www.linuxprinting.org/printer_list.cgi?make=Canon

Got to agree with a previous poster somewhere, unlike this ng,
residents on the Linux ng's seem somewhat arrogant. Mind you I can
understand it, must be pretty depressing seeing the same queries from
newbies again and again.

Not a newsgroup, but a usergroup. Mett those guys in person, preferably with
your PC in the trunk of your car.


Greetings,

Joachim

 

[Joachim Ziebs]

Hi Mike!

See what I mean, Keith, "usergroups all over the world"; I live just
outside London and the nearest appears to be Cambridge, which considering
public transport here is impossible, and in any case if you look up their
events it's extremely sporadic.

Can't say anything about this. The two usergroups here in Essen, Germany
meet every month.

But the linux man's answer was unhelpful and arrogant - no wonder they keep
getting the same questions if the answers they give are as duff as that.

I'm in no way arrogant.
I just pointed to helpful resources.

I think that inside they value their exclusivity more than rescuing the
rest of us from Bill

No. I don't want to rescue anybody. If you are happy with MS, use it.
Now, if you enter a Linux group saying that "Nothing works, Linus is a
POS..." nobody will help you.
If you enter it with "I have Suse 9, Speedtouch ADSL..., I'm completely new
to Linux, but I have tried ...., still doesn't work, what can I do?" people
will be a lot more helpful.

Greetings,

Joachim

 

[Joachim Ziebs]

Hi Roger!

Write the answers to the most common questions on the first
information page of the Linux documentation.

There is no "THE" Linux documentation.

Each part of GNU Linux is documented differently. Most information can be
found by typing man $command on the commandline.
You don't know how to use your fstab? Try "man fstab".
There is a wealth of information found there.

There are special websites run entirely for Linux newbies. Very helpful
communities, indeed. One only has to google for them.

What most newbies forget is that you can lead a horse to water, but you
can't make it drink. You have to do your own reading, or hire somebody to do
it for you.

Or, even better, change the operative system so the users do not have
to know those things.

So, you do not have to know anything to run an OS other than Linux?
Bullshit. You have to learn any OS you want to use. Place a Windows only guy
in front of a Mac and see what happens...

Greetings,

Joachim

 

[Joachim Ziebs]

Hi John!

Next, I started "The Gimp" (included with the
Knoppix download) and was pleased to see that it works perfectly in
Linux. The Windows port is definitely not as good.

Well, The Gimp stands for The GNU Image Manipulation Program. It was written
for *nix/Linux. No wonder it works there best.

Yeah, Linux takes effort to get going, but that will change one of
these days now that China, Japan and Korea have decided to collaborate
on a version of it. Don't forget, they make almost all of the hardware
we use these days and they also create all the drivers for the
hardware that they manufacture. Think about it.

Can you imagine the size of my grin?


Greetings,

Joachim

 

[Bob Adkins]

Something about mandatory product activation, inferior drivers for
older hardware, bloat, lack of privacy, etc.

There are ways to defeat all the "mandatory" crapola. I used to fight it,
but not any more. Every time I upgraded my motherboard and CPU, I had to
re-activate it. I got tired of that pretty quick.

Drivers? No problem. All the negative talk about drivers is overblown from
what I've seen. I have never had a single driver problem in XP since day 1.
Remember, it's the HARDWARE vendor's responsibility to develop drivers.
Don't blame Windows.

Privacy? Unless you work for the CIA or you are a criminal, you have nothing
to worry about. I think the XP privacy issues are overblown. For 1 thing,
never put anything on your computer you don't want the world to know about.

Bloat? I agree with you wholeheartedly. Although I find XP very fast, the
size on disk and memory requirements are a scandal. I think the next release
of XP should not add features, but reduce bloat. For what it does, however,
XP is no more bloated than any other version of Windows. They are all
bloated.

XP's stability is more than worth the extra HDD and RAM requirements.


Bob

 

[Joachim Ziebs]

Hallo Bob!

Privacy? Unless you work for the CIA or you are a criminal, you have nothing
to worry about. I think the XP privacy issues are overblown. For 1 thing,
never put anything on your computer you don't want the world to know about.

Hello?
It is *my* PC, what the hell has the rest of the world to do with it?
A software vendor has to make sure that my stuff remains to be my stuff and
that nobody else knows what it is.

Greetings,

Joachim

 

[SINNER]

* Shashay Doofray Wrote in alt.comp.freeware, on 2004-01-02:

As much as I dislike Windows, I was not impressed with Linux at all.

You went in with the wrong attitude, probobly expecting it to be like
Windows, but it isnt anything like windows and requires learning from
the beginning. I would bet you didnt spend much time with it. If your
dislike for windows is as strong as you say you should give Linux a fair
go.

You cant expect to know how to use it overnight, afterall you werent
born with the knowledge of how to use Windows were you?

Create a dual boot system and try not to use windows at all, that how
most switch.

They say that doing the same thing over and over and expecting different
results is the definition of insanity, rather then waiting for windows
to change, leave it behind.

 

[SINNER]

* Roger Johansson Wrote in alt.comp.freeware, on 2004-01-04:

They could, of course, take those questions as a reason to change the
documentation so newbies would not have to ask the same questions
again and again.

Problem is that most of the time the documentation isnt read. The
information is almost always there, hence the abundance of:

man <command>

responces to the many basic questions.

Write the answers to the most common questions on the first
information page of the Linux documentation.

Or, even better, change the operative system so the users do not have
to know those things.

Not possible if you want the OS to bend to your whim instead of having
to bend to its whim. People act as though they were born with the
ability to use windows, they werent. Stick your grandma infront of a
computer and you will see what I mean, hell my father barely knows how
to use the thing.

Its what your used to. There are people in the Linux groups that have
never used windows and would be frustrated to no end if they tried it.

 

[SINNER]

* Bob Adkins Wrote in alt.comp.freeware, on 2004-01-04:

There are ways to defeat all the "mandatory" crapola. I used to fight it,
but not any more. Every time I upgraded my motherboard and CPU, I had to
re-activate it. I got tired of that pretty quick.

Drivers? No problem. All the negative talk about drivers is overblown from
what I've seen. I have never had a single driver problem in XP since day 1.
Remember, it's the HARDWARE vendor's responsibility to develop drivers.
Don't blame Windows.

OK, but HW vendors dont produce drivers to the same magnintude for Linux
so they have to do it themselves. Now, instead of having to swwap 10
disks out to install all my hardwaare and reboot 6 times I just swap out
maybe 2 or 3 linux CD's depending on how much stuff I need and after the
install no reboot necessary and everything works.

Privacy? Unless you work for the CIA or you are a criminal, you have nothing
to worry about. I think the XP privacy issues are overblown. For 1 thing,
never put anything on your computer you don't want the world to know about.

That is a copout. Regardless of how much of an upstanding citizen you
are Government involvement in your private life is bad thing and multi
billion dollar corporations doubly so. Do you recall what the
governement did to the guy they were so sure commited the bombing at the
Atlanta Olympic games? Ruined a guys life without so much as an I'm
sorry and they were WRONG.

Bloat? I agree with you wholeheartedly. Although I find XP very fast, the
size on disk and memory requirements are a scandal. I think the next release
of XP should not add features, but reduce bloat. For what it does, however,
XP is no more bloated than any other version of Windows. They are all
bloated.

XP's stability is more than worth the extra HDD and RAM requirements.

So is Linux, except it doesnt require much space or ram.

 

[Bob Adkins]

Hello?
It is *my* PC, what the hell has the rest of the world to do with it?
A software vendor has to make sure that my stuff remains to be my stuff and
that nobody else knows what it is.

My PC is my PC too

The very nature of PC's and the Internet make it very foolish to keep
sensitive information on them.

Note I said "sensitive", not "private".

I keep private information on my own PC, but it would not be a disaster if
the information became public.

PC's are often mis-used today. They are productivity tools, not bank vaults.
I have never heard any PC maker or software developer claim their product
was analogous to a vault.

It's like keeping your money in an Acme bread box, and complaining that
someone broke in and stole it. Is it the fault of the Acme company? Do you
blame Acme for your loss, or do you blame yourself for putting money in a
bread box?

~~~~~~

"No operating system or hardware device can substitute for common sense when
it comes to security."


Bob

 

[Bob Adkins]

That is a copout. Regardless of how much of an upstanding citizen you
are Government involvement in your private life is bad thing and multi
billion dollar corporations doubly so. Do you recall what the
governement did to the guy they were so sure commited the bombing at the
Atlanta Olympic games? Ruined a guys life without so much as an I'm
sorry and they were WRONG.

I wasn't aware that happened every day, even in a country of 280 million
people.

If you're that paranoid, you better wear a lightning proof suit. You're far
more likely to get struck by lightning than to be misidentified in a
serious crime.

Bob

 

[Roger Johansson]

There is no "THE" Linux documentation.

Then there should be one.

Don't you understand that questions that come again and again can be
taken in a constructive way?
Such questions are a valuable clue that some information is missing,
and the Linux community can use them to design their documentation in
such a way that these question are not showing up again and again.

Instead of letting questions irritate people they can be used in a
positive and constructive way.

So, you do not have to know anything to run an OS other than Linux?

Software is getting better and better, so the users need to read less
documentation. This should be a design goal to strive for.
Questions are the clues programmers need to reach this goal.
Constructive programmers use the questions to find out where they need
to change the software. Less constructive people use questions to get
a chance to ventilate their anger and spiritual dissatisfaction with
life.

Bullshit. You have to learn any OS you want to use. Place a Windows only guy
in front of a Mac and see what happens...

There is no need for foul language here, please learn to communicate
in a civilized manner.

 

[KeithS]

Hi Keith!
I don't have a Speedtouch ADSL modem, so I can't help there. For
the printer check Linuxprinting.org for a compatible working model:
http://www.linuxprinting.org/printer_list.cgi?make=Canon

Many thanks Joachim, looks like the BJC7100 driver should work.
KeithS

 

[Joachim Ziebs]

Hi Bob!

My PC is my PC too

Windows ownz you.

Note I said "sensitive", not "private".

All my private information is senitive. Be it my address, bank account, name
of cats, whatever.

I keep private information on my own PC, but it would not be a disaster if
the information became public.

So you say now. Ever considered future developments?

PC's are often mis-used today. They are productivity tools, not bank vaults.
I have never heard any PC maker or software developer claim their product
was analogous to a vault.

I heard of enough software makers that tracked you to find out surfing
habits, preferences, titles of videos or mp3s you listened to.
I prefer a bank vault approach. And with Linux I'm on the way to it.

It's like keeping your money in an Acme bread box, and complaining that
someone broke in and stole it.
Is it the fault of the Acme company? Do you
blame Acme for your loss, or do you blame yourself for putting money in a
bread box?

Thanks for the example. However, I prefer to work with a bank vault. This
way, I just need to keep that vault updated.
If you like to work with a bread box that in the end will know more
about you than your mother, go ahead.

"No operating system or hardware device can substitute for common sense when
it comes to security."

Exactly. However, the ridiculous idea to publish updates once a month, if at
all came from MS.
Open Source is fixed ASAP. Seems common sense to me.

Greetings,

Joachim

 

[John Corliss]

There are ways to defeat all the "mandatory" crapola. I used to fight it,
but not any more. Every time I upgraded my motherboard and CPU, I had to
re-activate it. I got tired of that pretty quick.

Bob,
Hmm. So I'm assuming that you probably downloaded some kind of hack
or wrote one yourself. Sounds good. Illegal, but good. See my comments
two inserts down.

Drivers? No problem. All the negative talk about drivers is overblown from
what I've seen. I have never had a single driver problem in XP since day 1.
Remember, it's the HARDWARE vendor's responsibility to develop drivers.
Don't blame Windows.

Not always true. I tried using the HP Deskjet 850/855C driver that
came with Millennium Edition and which was written by Microsoft
(according to a HP customer relations executive that I contacted), and
the output looked like it was from an old worn out dot matrix printer.
Indesperation, I tried using the old drivers for Windows 95 and
luckily it worked. However, since the old W95 drivers are 16 bit, they
won't work with XP and I know what to expect now from MS designed
drivers. I kept seeing something to the effect of "not all features
will be available when using the XP drivers" when I looked around to
see how my other stuff (scanner for instance) would work. NO THANKS.
Understand, if I had unlimited funds and could afford to upgrade
all of my hardware every time I bought a new computer (as Microsoft
and the hardware vendors would have me do) this wouldn't be a problem.
But I spend almost $500 for this printer, over $600 for the scanner
and it's transparency lid. They're gonna last no matter what. The way
I see it, $500 is about the amount I'd spend for a good T.V. or washer
and drier. I'd get real pissed if I had to buy a new one of those
every two or three years.

Privacy? Unless you work for the CIA or you are a criminal, you have nothing
to worry about. I think the XP privacy issues are overblown. For 1 thing,
never put anything on your computer you don't want the world to know about.

I've heard this argument before. However, here's the deal: I reserve
the right to break the law when laws become oppressive. Period. This
means that I (by extrapolation) reserve the right to protect my
privacy. No, I don't put anything on my computer that I've got to
worry about, but that's not the point. I don't like (for instance) the
way MS Media Player has to be choked to death by a firewall in order
to keep it from calling home. On my system, even Windows Explorer was
trying to call home and that's pure bullshit. Hell, I just hooked up a
replacement keyboard ABS Computers sent me, installed Microsoft
Intellitype software and *IT* tried to call home!!!! I ask, what in
HELL does a frigging KEYBOARD PROGRAM have to call home for??????

(pant, choke, gasp.....)

Excuse me while I go take a med. 80)>

Bloat? I agree with you wholeheartedly. Although I find XP very fast, the
size on disk and memory requirements are a scandal. I think the next release
of XP should not add features, but reduce bloat. For what it does, however,
XP is no more bloated than any other version of Windows. They are all
bloated.

True true. What it boils down to unfortunately, is attempting to
maintain backwards compatability to a certain degree.

XP's stability is more than worth the extra HDD and RAM requirements.

As far as I'm concerned, I've only upgraded windows on one computer
that I bought. That was from W3.11 to W95 on a Pentium 90. It took so
many service packs and so much tweaking that I yanked it off of the
system and went back to 3.11. After about a year and a half, I finally
caved in and resigned myself to getting used to it. The process was a
nightmare.

*This* system (a Pentium IV with 256 mb RDRAM) was supposed to come
with XP. After having worked on several computers with XP, I'm very
glad I made the choice to go with ME. However, W98SE would have been
even better...

To me, Linux is looking better and better. And if one sets up a dual
partition and dual boot program, you can learn how to use Linux and
get the kinks ironed out while still using Windblow$.

 

[Joachim Ziebs]

Hi Keith!

Many thanks Joachim, looks like the BJC7100 driver should work.

You're welcome.

Greetings,

Joachim

 

[Joachim Ziebs]

Hi Roger!

Then there should be one.

No.
All the information is there. Run "man man" to learn how to get it.

Don't you understand that questions that come again and again can be
taken in a constructive way?

But the information is there. If you need a well-written-handbook, buy a
distribution that offers one, or any Linux book from O'Reiley or
Addison-Wesley.

Other than that: man

Such questions are a valuable clue that some information is missing,

No!
It is not missing. They are just not learning how to get it.

Instead of letting questions irritate people they can be used in a
positive and constructive way.

The problem is: people don't read them. They expect others to do the work
for them.

Software is getting better and better, so the users need to read less
documentation.

Lol. Software is getting more and more complex. You need to read and train
more and more accordingly.
Place anyone without knowledge if front of Adobe Photoshop [latest release]
and see what they can do.

There is no need for foul language here, please learn to communicate
in a civilized manner.

Lol, and what do you say about my argument?

Greetings,

Joachim

 

[Joachim Ziebs]

Hi Keith!

Many thanks Joachim, looks like the BJC7100 driver should work.

have a look here for your modem:
http://linux-usb.sourceforge.net/SpeedTouch/

Greetings,

Joachim

 

[SINNER]

* Bob Adkins Wrote in alt.comp.freeware, on 2004-01-04:

I wasn't aware that happened every day, even in a country of 280 million
people.

If you're that paranoid, you better wear a lightning proof suit. You're far
more likely to get struck by lightning than to be misidentified in a
serious crime.

I had lightning protection installed on my home this year after the
house down the street was totaled by strike. That same day 4 other
houses not far from mine were also struck. This past year over 10 houses
made the news for the same thing, and this was in the DFW (Dallas) area.

So, in fact, I disagree with your above statement. People have been
wrongly put to death in this country, a slew of people are in jail for
crimes they haven't committed while others who have are free to roam.

I don't need or want the government involved in my life, I have done OK
the past 36 years without it.

All this said we are really talking about Microsoft and NOT the
government, which makes this even scarier as big companies or well
funded interests such as the RIAA and MPAA are trying to get the
government to pass legislation that tramples your rights every day an
people make comments such as yours saying if your not doing anything
wrong there isn't anything to worry about which is simply not true.
--
David | AGM Favorite Games - http://tinyurl.com/loec
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