OT (sorry): T1, How many lines/pairs?

[David Sworder]

Hi,

If you can suggest a better place to ask this question, that would be
great, but...

I'm interested in bringing a private full T1 into my apartment, but
don't want to place the order until I know whether or not it's technically
possible in my building. My landlord doesn't know, but tells me that each
apartment can have "up to two lines." Using google, I see that a T1 requires
"24 pair." My question is: How many "pairs" are in a "line"?

I don't quite understand the terminology, but it's sounding as if I
would need the ability to have 24 physical phone lines coming into my
apartment -- and since I'm only allowed to have two, the T1 just isn't
possible. Is this correct? I suppose I could hire a guy from SBC to come out
and tell me, but USENET is much cheaper.

Thanks,

David

 

[BobC]

Hi,

If you can suggest a better place to ask this question, that would
be
great, but...

I'm interested in bringing a private full T1 into my apartment,
but
don't want to place the order until I know whether or not it's
technically possible in my building. My landlord doesn't know, but
tells me that each apartment can have "up to two lines." Using google,
I see that a T1 requires "24 pair." My question is: How many "pairs"
are in a "line"?

I don't quite understand the terminology, but it's sounding as if
I
would need the ability to have 24 physical phone lines coming into my
apartment -- and since I'm only allowed to have two, the T1 just isn't
possible. Is this correct? I suppose I could hire a guy from SBC to
come out and tell me, but USENET is much cheaper.

Thanks,

David

Check this T1 primer out.
http://www.techfest.com/networking/wan/t1_primer.htm

 

[David Sworder]

Check this T1 primer out.

http://www.techfest.com/networking/wan/t1_primer.htm

Cool, thanks... It's interesting that this article states that only 2 pair
are required. I wonder why I keep seeing "24 pair" in various USENET
postings.

 

[BobC]

Cool, thanks... It's interesting that this article states that only 2
pair are required. I wonder why I keep seeing "24 pair" in various
USENET postings.

I think you'll find that the T1 terminal equipment (TSU) is relatively
expensive. Here is an example:
http://www.provantage.com/buy-110ADTT-adtran-t1-shopping.htm

 

[Reni Ninan]

Each T1 consists of 24 DS0s each with 56K or 64K depending on signaling -
may be that's where the confusion is.

 

[BobC]

Cool, thanks... It's interesting that this article states that only 2
pair are required. I wonder why I keep seeing "24 pair" in various
USENET postings.

24 channels of 64Kpps on a T1. These channels are different than the number
of pairs required.

 

[Reni Ninan]

On your other question on whether you can get a T1 or not, you sure can if
you are willing to spend the very high fees. Unless you are running a
business which warrants a full leased T1 line, I would rather go with a DSL
or if that's not appropriate may be look at a Frame Relay circuit which is
much cheaper than a leased T1. Many apartment complexes use just a single T1
to provide Internet Access to their tenants to connect to the Telco.

Your landlord was probably referring to the fact that he will allow you to
have 2 separate phone connections.

 

[Reni Ninan]

I was referring to how the confusion on the 24 might have come about.

It's either 56K or 64K depending on signaling. If the Telco is using Super
Frame it's 56K and if it's Extended Super Frame, it's 64K.

 

[David Sworder]

On your other question on whether you can get a T1 or not, you sure can if
you are willing to spend the very high fees. Unless you are running a
business which warrants a full leased T1 line, I would rather go with a DSL
or if that's not appropriate may be look at a Frame Relay circuit which is
much cheaper than a leased T1. Many apartment complexes use just a single T1
to provide Internet Access to their tenants to connect to the Telco.

Your landlord was probably referring to the fact that he will allow you to
have 2 separate phone connections.

Well, here's my deal. I currently have "T1-quality" service (1.5x1.5
mbps) through Time Warner Cable [Roadrunner]. The thing is that Roadrunner
is very flakey. Sometimes I lose service for 5-10 minutes at a time.
Roadrunner also frequently schedules "router maintenence" at night and
informs customers that they will lose service for 30 minutes to an hour. Not
acceptable for someone running an Internet business. Every time my
connection is lost, customers start calling and complaining that my site is
down.

My solution is to move all of my servers from my apartment to a
colocation facility (Verio) which is a couple of blocks away from my
apartment. Problem solved... BUT... I don't want to pay Verio $600/mo for my
space IN ADDITION to paying Roadrunner $400/month for Internet access from
my home. So, my idea is to run a T1 from my apartment to my little space at
Verio which would in effect allow me to use Verio as my ISP.... so that's
why I'm wondering if it's going to be possible to get a T1 connection in my
apartment.

David

 

[David Sworder]

I am sure you can get it, in case Verio offers it. I am not sure about the
exact rates for a T1, however chances are that they will be more than
$1000/month and you might also have to pay a few hundred dollars for
installation. If somebody offers a FR circuit, that might make more sense
too economically.

It's only $180/month to run the T1 local loop to Verio, so the cost it's
too bad... it's just a matter of whether or not it's technically possible to
get the loop installed in this apartment.

 

[Jeff Cochran]

If you can suggest a better place to ask this question, that would be
great, but...

Google would've bee the best...

I'm interested in bringing a private full T1 into my apartment, but
don't want to place the order until I know whether or not it's technically
possible in my building.

It's technically possible in *every* bulding. Normally you'll have an
entire new run put in from the telco's nearest access point.

My landlord doesn't know, but tells me that each
apartment can have "up to two lines." Using google, I see that a T1 requires
"24 pair." My question is: How many "pairs" are in a "line"?

T-1 is two pair (four wires). Which means you'd lose your phone if
you were able to use the current wiring. Which you likely can't
because it wouldn't normally meet the needs of a T-1.

I don't quite understand the terminology, but it's sounding as if I
would need the ability to have 24 physical phone lines coming into my
apartment -- and since I'm only allowed to have two, the T1 just isn't
possible. Is this correct? I suppose I could hire a guy from SBC to come out
and tell me, but USENET is much cheaper.

First, a T-1 isn't exactly a T-1.

The 24 pair is reference to phone connections, not data, and the T-1
can handle 24 channels.

If you do decide to pursue this, you may want to see if your
building-mates want to chip in. Between routers, TSU/DSU, local loop
charges, port charges and connection fees, you'll likely decide a
cable modem is just fine. Last T we installed was about $1,900 for
the router, $700 for the TSU, $500 for the installation and circuit
provisioning, $650/month for the local loop and $550/month for the
port charge. About $3,500 initial costs and $1,200 a month. My cable
modem is $49.95 a month, free self-install kit and only $19.95 a month
for the first three months. Over two year's access for the same cost
as a month of a T-1 line. And it includes email and newsgroup access.

Jeff

 

[David Sworder]

port charge. About $3,500 initial costs and $1,200 a month. My cable

modem is $49.95 a month, free self-install kit and only $19.95 a month
for the first three months. Over two year's access for the same cost
as a month of a T-1 line. And it includes email and newsgroup access.

Thanks for all of the great info...

Regarding cable modems... That $50/month that you quoted is for a
residential account, not a business account -- meaning you can't run servers
and you have very little upstream bandwidth. I'm paying $400/mo for a
1.5x1.5mbps cable account right now. I'd be happy to just keep the cable
subscription and forget about all of this co-location/T1 nonsense, but Time
Warner cable [at least in San Diego] is very unreliable. They frequently cut
off customers for 30minutes at a time to do "router maintenance" in the
early mornings... even on a good day, they'll cut you off for 5-10 minutes
at a time for who knows why.... They just don't have the kinks worked out of
their system yet. If they'd improve reliability, I'd choose cable over T1
for my business needs any day.

David

 

[Jeff Cochran]

port charge. About $3,500 initial costs and $1,200 a month. My cable
modem is $49.95 a month, free self-install kit and only $19.95 a month
for the first three months. Over two year's access for the same cost
as a month of a T-1 line. And it includes email and newsgroup access.

Thanks for all of the great info...

Regarding cable modems... That $50/month that you quoted is for a
residential account, not a business account -- meaning you can't run servers
and you have very little upstream bandwidth. I'm paying $400/mo for a
1.5x1.5mbps cable account right now. I'd be happy to just keep the cable
subscription and forget about all of this co-location/T1 nonsense, but Time
Warner cable [at least in San Diego] is very unreliable. They frequently cut
off customers for 30minutes at a time to do "router maintenance" in the
early mornings... even on a good day, they'll cut you off for 5-10 minutes
at a time for who knows why.... They just don't have the kinks worked out of
their system yet. If they'd improve reliability, I'd choose cable over T1
for my business needs any day.

You sound like you need a hosted site (not a server as you posted in
another response). Locally, I can get both DSL and commercial cable
without the cutoffs, for that price or less. You might look at the
DSL option. Or moving.

Jeff

 

[Reni Ninan]

Technically it's possible.

--
Thanks

- Reni

It's only $180/month to run the T1 local loop to Verio, so the cost it's
too bad... it's just a matter of whether or not it's technically possible to
get the loop installed in this apartment.

 

[Al Dykes]

On your other question on whether you can get a T1 or not, you sure can if
you are willing to spend the very high fees. Unless you are running a
business which warrants a full leased T1 line, I would rather go with a DSL
or if that's not appropriate may be look at a Frame Relay circuit which is
much cheaper than a leased T1. Many apartment complexes use just a single T1
to provide Internet Access to their tenants to connect to the Telco.

Your landlord was probably referring to the fact that he will allow you to
have 2 separate phone connections.

Well, here's my deal. I currently have "T1-quality" service (1.5x1.5
mbps) through Time Warner Cable [Roadrunner]. The thing is that Roadrunner
is very flakey. Sometimes I lose service for 5-10 minutes at a time.
Roadrunner also frequently schedules "router maintenence" at night and
informs customers that they will lose service for 30 minutes to an hour. Not
acceptable for someone running an Internet business. Every time my
connection is lost, customers start calling and complaining that my site is
down.

My solution is to move all of my servers from my apartment to a
colocation facility (Verio) which is a couple of blocks away from my
apartment. Problem solved... BUT... I don't want to pay Verio $600/mo for my
space IN ADDITION to paying Roadrunner $400/month for Internet access from
my home. So, my idea is to run a T1 from my apartment to my little space at
Verio which would in effect allow me to use Verio as my ISP.... so that's
why I'm wondering if it's going to be possible to get a T1 connection in my
apartment.

David

Ask Verio if they offer connectivity to your house, as part of your package.
They probably offer COVAD sdsl or frame relay. Also ask them for
a qoute for a for a T1, it's apt to be cheaper than the price telco
will quote you. They may also let you use T1 harware at no charge as
part of the package.

 

[Al Dykes]

port charge. About $3,500 initial costs and $1,200 a month. My cable
modem is $49.95 a month, free self-install kit and only $19.95 a month
for the first three months. Over two year's access for the same cost
as a month of a T-1 line. And it includes email and newsgroup access.

Thanks for all of the great info...

Regarding cable modems... That $50/month that you quoted is for a
residential account, not a business account -- meaning you can't run servers
and you have very little upstream bandwidth. I'm paying $400/mo for a
1.5x1.5mbps cable account right now. I'd be happy to just keep the cable
subscription and forget about all of this co-location/T1 nonsense, but Time
Warner cable [at least in San Diego] is very unreliable. They frequently cut
off customers for 30minutes at a time to do "router maintenance" in the
early mornings... even on a good day, they'll cut you off for 5-10 minutes
at a time for who knows why.... They just don't have the kinks worked out of
their system yet. If they'd improve reliability, I'd choose cable over T1
for my business needs any day.

David

Checkout Covad (www.covad.com) to see if there is a sdsl service
available near you. Also see dslreports.com for lots of
goodinformation.

If you're colocating your servers do you really need 1.5mb service
to home ? With dsl you get to pick from a couple of speeds
below that.