One color clogging

[DK]

All of a sudden my ip4000 started to clog selectively - Cyan only.
It would require deep cleaning to clear up and then it's OK but
by the next day it would be clogged clogged again.

Not really sure what's it all about. I am using Hobbicolors inks
and they worked fine in the past.

Any ideas? Should I consider a new head? The printer is less
than two years old with some very light printing in fact
(couple times a week on average). Thanks.

DK

 

[DanG]

All of a sudden my ip4000 started to clog selectively - Cyan only.
It would require deep cleaning to clear up and then it's OK but
by the next day it would be clogged clogged again.

Not really sure what's it all about. I am using Hobbicolors inks
and they worked fine in the past.

Any ideas? Should I consider a new head? The printer is less
than two years old with some very light printing in fact
(couple times a week on average). Thanks.

DK

1st, replace the tank with a new one. 90% of these problems are related to
the tank not flowing.

 

[Burt]

1st, replace the tank with a new one. 90% of these problems are related to
the tank not flowing.

following up on DanG's post, if the Cyan cart has been refilled several
times there is the possibility that you have some ink dried in the sponge,
outlet, or area where ink from the reservoir feeds into the sponge area.
Two tests for proper flow are remove the cart from the printer and 1)blow
gently into the air vent. You shouldn't have to blow very hard to make the
cart drip out of the ink outlet, and 2) remove the fill hole seal and the
cart should drip steadily out of the ink outlet. Of course, you should have
a container or a wad of toweling paper or newspaper to catch the drips.

If you have carts that don't flow properly after several refills you can
purge them and they will then work as new again. Check out the thread on
the Nifty-stuff forum for purging or cleaning carts.

 

[Al Bundy]

1st, replace the tank with a new one. 90% of these problems are related to
the tank not flowing.

You beat me to the punch there. I have an older model Canon, but the
tanks are similar except for chips. If you refill enough times, the
tanks become contaminated, especially at the bottom where there is a
grill area in the plastic separating the sponge side from the tank
side. I take these tanks off and really clean them well by back
flushing. Particles of dried ink or something flow into the sink. My
final flush is with alcohol. Then I blow them out with air and store
them for the next time a tank is needed. Until you figure this out,
the cleaning cycle can be deceiving as it sucks enough ink through to
work for a brief period.

 

[DanG]

You beat me to the punch there. I have an older model Canon, but the
tanks are similar except for chips. If you refill enough times, the
tanks become contaminated, especially at the bottom where there is a
grill area in the plastic separating the sponge side from the tank
side. I take these tanks off and really clean them well by back
flushing. Particles of dried ink or something flow into the sink. My
final flush is with alcohol. Then I blow them out with air and store
them for the next time a tank is needed. Until you figure this out,
the cleaning cycle can be deceiving as it sucks enough ink through to
work for a brief period.

I've had tanks that had flow issues after as little as 2 refills, and even
one or 2 that never did flow right. I just threw out a brand new MMC
photo-black cause it refused to flow. But my experience with several Canons
is that the heads are either good or bad, never intermittent. Only tank flow
issues are intermittent, and they're pretty common.

 

[DK]

1st, replace the tank with a new one. 90% of these problems are related to
the tank not flowing.

Done today. Will see tomorrow and in upcoming days.
I wasn't particularly suspecting the cart because it is
1) the very first fill of the Hobbicolors empty carts and all
the other colors are using the same carts tight now.
2) It's been in use and seemingly fine for over a month.

Of course it's still possible that it does not flow well now,
when it is only 2/3 full...

So, no other things are likely?

DK

 

[DanG]

Done today. Will see tomorrow and in upcoming days.
I wasn't particularly suspecting the cart because it is
1) the very first fill of the Hobbicolors empty carts and all
the other colors are using the same carts tight now.
2) It's been in use and seemingly fine for over a month.

Of course it's still possible that it does not flow well now,
when it is only 2/3 full...

So, no other things are likely?

DK

There's always the chance that the passages in the head carriage are
partially blocked, which is solved with a cleaning tank filled with solvent.
But my experience has been that most of the time it's the tank. But it's not
the nozzles/head. Not if it passes a nozzle check. Heads simply do not go
out intermittently. When they're dead they're dead.

 

[Arthur Entlich]

From your description I'm guessing there is a problem with the ink.

Occasionally, some ink will be bad from a batch, and only affect a
specific color. Sometimes it is a matter of aging, either that the ink
is older than the others or it just chemically ages faster.

You may be able to salvage the ink by mixing it well, or by adding a
small amount of the appropriate solvent.

Without knowing the exact ink formulation you might be better off
corresponding with the manufacturer about it.

Art

 

[DK]

There's always the chance that the passages in the head carriage are
partially blocked, which is solved with a cleaning tank filled with solvent.

Which solvent would be best to use?

But my experience has been that most of the time it's the tank. But it's not
the nozzles/head. Not if it passes a nozzle check. Heads simply do not go
out intermittently. When they're dead they're dead.

Well, I don't think it is a cartridge because another one that I installed
yesterday did exactly the same today. I am going to install yet another
cartridge with a newer batch of inks that I have and if that won't help,
will be doing cleaning with the solvent(s).

DK

 

[DGD]

Which solvent would be best to use?


Well, I don't think it is a cartridge because another one that I installed
yesterday did exactly the same today. I am going to install yet another
cartridge with a newer batch of inks that I have and if that won't help,
will be doing cleaning with the solvent(s).

DK

I have had a similar problem with magenta but on a different printer -
a Pixma ip5000.. After deep cleaning, the magenta colour returns only
to disappear shortly thereafter. I am not familiar with the terms
people are using in the responses to the original question posed. How
does one remove the tank and clean it - assuming the tank is not the
ink cartridge? What is meant by the "cart"? which is also mentioned
above? How does one get a "cleaning tank" and what solvents should
one use in these tanks and carts? Any help appreciated.

Doug

 

[Burt]

I have had a similar problem with magenta but on a different printer -
a Pixma ip5000.. After deep cleaning, the magenta colour returns only
to disappear shortly thereafter. I am not familiar with the terms
people are using in the responses to the original question posed. How
does one remove the tank and clean it - assuming the tank is not the
ink cartridge? What is meant by the "cart"? which is also mentioned
above? How does one get a "cleaning tank" and what solvents should
one use in these tanks and carts? Any help appreciated.

Doug

Doug - go onto the Nifty-stuff forum - lots of info about inkjet printers,
inks, maintenance, troubleshooting, etc. Carts are shorthand for
cartridges. Cleaning tanks (carts) are available commercially or can be
made by filling a cart with original windex (with ammonia). if the cleaning
routines in the software don't fix the problem you can then use techniques
to clean the printhead. On the nifty-stuff forum click on the FAQ's link at
the top of the page, select the first FAQ about why your printer doesn't
print properly, and read through the posts. Some better than others, but no
need to duplicate here what is in that FAQ. There is also a thread on
purging carts that have been refilled several times and no longer feed ink
freely. They can then be refilled several times again and work well.

Almost four years ago Arthur Entlich helped me with info on this NG and with
his manual on how to clear a clog in an Epson printer. I subsequently went
to Canon printers as they are very easy to refill. The Nifty-stuff forum
started shortly after I started refilling Canon carts. It is primarily a
forum for sharing information about aftermarket inks and keeping the printer
functioning regardless of whether you use Canon or aftermarket inks. It is
a very helpful source of information on these issues.
http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/

 

[Mickey]

I have had a similar problem with magenta but on a different printer -
a Pixma ip5000.. After deep cleaning, the magenta colour returns only
to disappear shortly thereafter. I am not familiar with the terms
people are using in the responses to the original question posed. How
does one remove the tank and clean it - assuming the tank is not the
ink cartridge? What is meant by the "cart"? which is also mentioned
above? How does one get a "cleaning tank" and what solvents should
one use in these tanks and carts? Any help appreciated.

Doug

Guess I'll piggyback on this post since its about a sim model and color
problem.

I had a post several weeks ago about my first ever ink problem with my
Canon I860. Thought I had it resolved but it's back. Magenta only.

Using color bar pattern for text image, bars are about an inch wide. If
I print using the STD qlty, the Magenta will start out OK across the
width of the bar but at half way point ink vol starts to run out. Does
this repeatedly every pass even from the beginning. You can see which
directions the head is moving by the pattern. Now, if I print the same
test pattern but use HIGH qlty, everything is great.

To add to this, I have 2 different carts. The original Canon cart and a
3rd party cart. Have flushed both carts. The Canon cart flushed to
pure white & the 3rd party cart stayed Magenta. Refilled both carts
with my MIS ink. 3rd party cart sucked up the ink the full height of
the sponge quickly while the Canon cart didn't completely fill the
sponge but suspect that's due to the double sponges.

While the print output exhibits the output problem, the Canon cart does
to a much lessor extent.

The cause??? This has got me stumped. Partial blockage in the PH
itself that reduces flow, something with the flow in both carts,
something physical in the cart to PH interface or ????

Thinking back to what I read on nifty-stuff and Magenta being the most
common color to have problem with and I think I remember Burt saying
something about the Magenta being a different viscosity or something
about its flow characteristics has got me to thinking. My ink is
getting dated and I wonder if this is having an impact on the flow and
is the real cause of my problems.

Any comments?

Was going to post this on nifty-stuff but couldn't figure out how to
post a pic of the output.

Mickey

 

[Arthur Entlich]

Warning: You take the suggestions below at your own risk. I cannot be
responsible for how you interpret the information, or other extenuating
circumstances where the information may not be correct for your
particular situation. Also, be aware that ammonia is caustic/corrosive
and the fumes may be hazardous, and that isopropyl alcohol is
potentially flammable and the fumes may be damaging. Both substances
can be toxic if consumed in quantity. Always use in a well ventilated
environment.

=====================

In general, a solvent made of ammoniated window/glass cleaner and
isopropyl alcohol in a mix of about 80% to 20% for dye inks or higher
alcohol for pigmented inks (up to 50%-50%) will work. However, some
inks use differing pH and require different cleaners/dissolvers, so I
always suggest you take some of the cleaner and place it in a small
clear container, and then drop a drop or two of the ink into it and
watch the reaction. If the ink just says a blob and sticks to the side,
floats on top or sinks to the bottom, rather than beginning to dissipate
into the solution, that is not a good sign and probably means the wrong
cleaner is being used. If it begins to mix well with some gentle
agitation, it will probably work. If the blobs of ink continue to stay
coagulated or just break up into smaller blobs without dissolving into
the liquid don't use the cleaning mixture, it is contrary for the ink
you have. In that case, test with just water, or water and a very small
amount of vinegar, then see if the alcohol helps or hinders.

Art

 

[DK]

Warning: You take the suggestions below at your own risk. I cannot be
responsible for how you interpret the information, or other extenuating
circumstances where the information may not be correct for your
particular situation. Also, be aware that ammonia is caustic/corrosive
and the fumes may be hazardous, and that isopropyl alcohol is
potentially flammable and the fumes may be damaging. Both substances
can be toxic if consumed in quantity. Always use in a well ventilated
environment.

Nice disclaimer Reminded me of a chemical company (Sigma)
putting the warning label "caution: explosive" on a bottle with sucrose
(e.g., "sugar") and "caution: poisonous" on a bottle of ATP (e.g.,
the compound that is the main source of energy for all living
things; we eat to make ATP).

In general, a solvent made of ammoniated window/glass cleaner and
isopropyl alcohol in a mix of about 80% to 20% for dye inks or higher
alcohol for pigmented inks (up to 50%-50%) will work.

Mixing high pH and alcohols is going to make the solution much more
caustic. Not that it's necessarily a bad thing but I've seen stainless
still corrode to a power in alkaline ethanol, so I think for starters I'll
try windex alone and 50% isopropanol alone first. It does seem to
be a partially clogged passage, for the new batch of the ink made
no difference even in the new cartridge.

inks use differing pH and require different cleaners/dissolvers, so I
always suggest you take some of the cleaner and place it in a small
clear container, and then drop a drop or two of the ink into it and
watch the reaction. If the ink just says a blob and sticks to the side,
floats on top or sinks to the bottom, rather than beginning to dissipate
into the solution, that is not a good sign and probably means the wrong
cleaner is being used. If it begins to mix well with some gentle
agitation, it will probably work. If the blobs of ink continue to stay
coagulated or just break up into smaller blobs without dissolving into
the liquid don't use the cleaning mixture, it is contrary for the ink
you have. In that case, test with just water, or water and a very small
amount of vinegar, then see if the alcohol helps or hinders.

Yeah, this reminded me just how different inks can be. Can't
remember the color right now but few years ago I measured pH of
Canon OEM and Hobbicolors ink and it was hugely different for one
of the colors. ~ 5.5 in case of OEM and almost 9.0 for the
aftermarket.

DK

 

[Arthur Entlich]

I believe the tank and the cart both refer to the ink cartridge sans the
head.

Older cartridges of most Canon and HP printers contained both the ink
"tank" and the head integrated together and both were considered
disposable.

Today, the Canon models have separate and semi-permanent heads and the
color ink "tanks".

The heads on these printers can be cleaned externally of the printer,
which sometimes resolves these problems you speak of. People who refill
the "tanks" may find the tank needs a good flushing after a while to
prevent the filters from clogging up.

Art

 

[Arthur Entlich]

Just guessing on a general basis.

Usually this type of problem is the result of either ink starvation of
air getting sucked into the head due to a bad cartridge seal.

The reason it may not occur with the high quality may be because more
nozzles are used, or larger ones are used, or more likely, it is slower
in firing the nozzles so the pressure equalization required to replace
the ink used has more time to take place. Check to make sure that the
air exchange system on the cartridge isn't blocked partially, and that
the seal around where the ink leaves the cartridge from is not damaged.

Since I don't own a Canon printer, my terms or design concepts might be
"off" but this is a guess.

Art

 

[Arthur Entlich]

I try to be a bit cautious when addressing a large, unregulated group of
people with very varying knowledge bases. Of course, some will consider
it "too obvious" but there are some who are unfamiliar with the
substances, speak english as their second language, etc. and I don't
want to see anyone injured as a result of something I posted to try to
help others.

The isopropyl alcohol mixed with the ammoniated glass cleaner makes a
very effective solvent for most inkjet printer water based inks. The
alcohol is needed with the pigment inks which often use an acrylic resin
as an adhesive base for the pigment particles to stick to the paper
substrate, but it also helps with the dye inks. It also works well as a
wetting agent to help the solvent flow into smaller channels and such,
and to advance evaporation after the cleaning process is complete. I
have yet had any feedback of this mixture damaging head components or
plastics, but one never knows what materials may be used in the future
crop of products, thus the caveats.

Art

 

[Mickey]

Just guessing on a general basis.

Usually this type of problem is the result of either ink starvation of
air getting sucked into the head due to a bad cartridge seal.

The reason it may not occur with the high quality may be because more
nozzles are used, or larger ones are used, or more likely, it is slower
in firing the nozzles so the pressure equalization required to replace
the ink used has more time to take place. Check to make sure that the
air exchange system on the cartridge isn't blocked partially, and that
the seal around where the ink leaves the cartridge from is not damaged.

Since I don't own a Canon printer, my terms or design concepts might be
"off" but this is a guess.

Art

Thanks for your thoughts Art. The more I think about the problem the
more I'm favoring the theory that it's the ink. It's past is expiration
date, 2 diff carts with exactly the same problem that took place a same
time and the 3rd party cart was almost dripping ink and it's performance
was worse the and Canon cart and problem appeared on the very first
printout and certainly by 2nd or 3rd pass. Problem started mid-point
between fills so that doesn't lend itself well to something
changing/damage at the interface.

Since I'm favoring the ink right now I've written to MIS asking for
their thoughts on the problem and the age of the ink. If there is a
good chance it is the ink, they should know.

Again, thanks for your thoughts.

Was hoping that Burt would jump in here as he commented on a very sim
problem over on nifty-stuff a couple yrs ago.

Mickey

 

[measekite]

Thanks for your thoughts Art. The more I think about the problem the
more I'm favoring the theory that it's the ink. It's past is
expiration date, 2 diff carts with exactly the same problem that took
place a same time and the 3rd party cart was almost dripping ink and
it's performance was worse the and Canon cart and problem appeared on
the very first printout and certainly by 2nd or 3rd pass. Problem
started mid-point between fills so that doesn't lend itself well to
something changing/damage at the interface.

Since I'm favoring the ink right now I've written to MIS asking for
their thoughts on the problem and the age of the ink. If there is a
good chance it is the ink, they should know.

Again, thanks for your thoughts.

Was hoping that Burt would jump in here as he commented on a very sim
problem over on nifty-stuff a couple yrs ago.

Mickey

You do not need to ask them. If it is not Canon ink then it is the
ink. I just do not understand why many in this ng enjoy the aggravation
that seems to go along with saving enough to buy a hot dog.

 

[Taliesyn]

You do not need to ask them. If it is not Canon ink then it is the
ink. I just do not understand why many in this ng enjoy the aggravation
that seems to go along with saving enough to buy a hot dog.

(Why am I seeing this troll, I had him killfiled?)

Measekite stated one saves only enough through refilling "buy a hot dog".

Pure bullshit, as always. The truth is, $28 of aftermarket ink saves me
enough money to buy half a dozen new Canon printers. If there was any
aggravation in filling ink containers I wouldn't be doing it. But saving
hundreds of dollars with each order of ink is music to my ears. Since
Measekite can only comprehend money saved in terms of hot dogs, it would
probably be more like saving enough money to buy something like 500 hot
dogs. Then again I have no idea what a hot dog costs as I'm not familiar
with kind of cheap food Measekite normally consumes between his posts. I
prefer to eat real food

-Taliesyn