% of 1st time success?

[Al]

In what % of times would a first-time builder put together a computer and have
it turn on and function the first time you turn on the switch?

OTOH, what are the major pitfalls that produce failure? Are most failures able
to be overcome without having to replace parts? Thanks.

 

[BigJIm]

good memory for the board to match the cpu and a good power supply.

 

[Jon Danniken]

OTOH, what are the major pitfalls that produce failure?

Trying to put it all together on the first night will almost guarantee
failure. Do it slowly your first time, frequently check instruction manuals
and online guides, READ your mainboard manual and reference it frequently
while you are building. Take your time and recognize the signs of fatigue
and frustration *before* they cause you to make a mistake.

Jon

 

[DaveW]

1) ~25%

2) No.

 

[Jan Alter]

That all depends upon the builder who is doing the work, in addition to the
quality of parts and and their integral caompatiability he/she chooses to
use for assembly. I usually add a 1 % luck factor as well.

The question you ask can only lead to other questions.

 

[RBM]

I think if you spend 99% of your time researching your parts for
compatibility and 1% of your time assembling the machine, you've got a high
percent chance it'll work first time. I'd also recommend reading the
literature cover to cover, and buy quality hardware

 

[jimbo]

Well, I used Multiwave and selected the $79 assemble, test and burn-in
option. Guaranteed 100% success.

jimbo

 

[Al]

thanks, I do plan to read and learn everything possible, rather than just
learning a by-the-numbers assembly process). How reliable are reviews at
newegg? People there are reporting good results with Sempron 2400+ and PcChips
M863G. I've already bought 512 MB of PNY DDR333 lifetime guaranteed RAM. I'm
hoping to cut costs by using a used case and PSU.

(I see people are not exactly thrilled with PcChips, but I have a baby-AT
board with K6-II that never gave me any problems for several years - though
I'd suppose a cheaper board has a higher probablity of problems.)

 

[Bryan Hoover]

In what % of times would a first-time builder put together a computer and have
it turn on and function the first time you turn on the switch?

OTOH, what are the major pitfalls that produce failure? Are most failures able
to be overcome without having to replace parts? Thanks.

In reading the hardware usenet groups, power supply is probably the single most
prevalent point of failure. I recently built a computer for the first time,
though I had the advantage of having upgraded hardware over the course of several
years on my first bought computer -- upgrades included, additions of CD, sound
card; hard drives; memory; and cpu.

I found revealing, how often power supply problems are asked about in the usenet
groups. I figure it's because, for years, cheap power supplies were the rule, but
this changed not too long ago -- newer system components, and cpu's demanded more,
and stabler power. Cheaper supplies are still made, and sold. The problem is,
it's a crap shoot as to whether you can get away with using one in a modern
computer build -- and the odds of success are not particularly good, though good
enough for people to continue trying it such that one can easily google up many
bad experience reports.

So don't get a cheap power supply. This advice probably goes double for an
inexperienced builder, or a builder without an engineering degree -- you just
don't know the rules well enough to bend them, so don't risk it.

Other than that, you just have to make sure all the parts you buy go together.
And that's another series of questions/answers. Like, what's the pci bus speed?
PCI? PCIX (the latest/greatest)? AGP? What's the FSB speed, and do you know the
difference between real, and effective FSB speed? The memory speed? DDR? Dual
channel? If it's dual channel memory, divide over separate sticks (pairs) -- for
instance, instead of one 512MB stick, get two 256MB sticks. The main board socket
type? Hard drive interface -- EIDE, PATA, SATA (probably want SATA), SCSI (does
better with multitasking, but ATA is catching up to this I hear)? And matching
cpu, and expansion cards to go with all this.

Consider a bare bones system, or a cpu/main board combo -- just reading the specs
on these is a good way to bootstrap yourself up to speed on what might or might
not be doable. And most of the stuff mentioned in the above paragraph is a
relative no brainer after a just a little investigation. Perhaps you're already
there.

And of course, the more stuff you add to the system, the more wattage capability
you'll need for the power supply -- though don't confuse wattage with quality. Go
quality first, but make sure it outputs enough watts to power everything -- there
are sites that will give you an estimate of the power needs of most components,
and school you on associated calculations. And giving yourself some wattage
headroom for future expansion is a good idea too -- if it turns out your system's
gonna need 450 watts, get a good quality power supply that outputs 550 or more as
your budget allows, though mind, if it's a quality supply, the headroom is not
neccessary (and it won't neccessarily help with a cheap supply either), just good
future proofing.

Bryan

 

[fj]

You'll have about, I'm guessing only from experience, 0% success rate.
You'll have the floppy cable on backwards, lights wired up with incorrect
polarity, the machine shut itself down because the heatsink isn't properly
seated, or something will have gone wrong. It's all part of the
experience.

Now, if you mean how likely are you to have defective hardware, or a
serious
mishap that fries hardware, I'd say lady luck is definitely in your favor.
I've yet to have a bad board, CPU, memory, graphics card, HDD, CD/DVD,
floppy, PSU, or any other piece of hardware. I've built 6 computers now,
and haven't had a major hardware issue to speak of. I have had to do some
troubleshooting, as I've outlined earlier, and you will too.

You can avoid a lot of troubles by following this advice: you get what you
pay for, usually. I see people on here all the time spending oodles of
money on the latest/greatest processor, motherboard, graphics card, or
whatever, and put it in a case that cost them $40 with a 500 watt power
supply included. What do you expect will happen with such a bargain power
supply? You got it - trouble...

So keep this in mind:

* Get a case that has plenty of cooling, and lots of room to work in
there.
You don't necessarily need a case that has a removable motherboard tray,
or
drive rails, or anything fancy. However, quality cooling fans with, at
least, the option of adding more should be considered a minimum.

* Get a quality power supply. A quality 300 watt PSU will usually actually
give you more juice, and less fluctuations in current, than a cheap 600
watt PSU. Good brands are Fortron and Antec. I, personally, like Antec
because I can get a good case and a great power supply together cheaper
than I buy them separately.

* Quality, name brand components will ensure a good, trouble free build.
Buying a PC Chips motherboard will almost guarantee you more trouble than
an Asus motherboard.

* Buying the latest/greatest motherboard isn't always the best idea.
Usually, boards go through revisions that stomp out problems and change
some parts either to upgrade them or get rid of problematic parts. Also,
new technology is sometimes untested for flaws, and later implementations
are often more stable and perform better.

* Buy parts that have some life expectancy. It's kind of silly to buy a
Socket A motherboard to build a new system, when AMD is ending its life
cycle. Socket 939 boards are the way to go, since you'll be guaranteed
that
you can upgrade your processor for sometime in the future.

* Assess your needs before you buy. If you don't plan on either gaming or
designing 3D graphics, it's just plain dumb to go out and buy an nVidia
6800 Ultra graphics card, since 2D performance will see no improvement
over
a much cheaper FX5200 card. However, consider what you _MIGHT_ do with it
in the future. You may not be into editing video, but maybe you'll have a
kid next year and get excited and buy a digital camcorder and want to do
it. If you didn't have the foresight to buy a motherboard with built-in
Firewire, you'll have to spend money to add that feature in, or upgrade
your existing hardware. So, maybe you'll find yourself into PC gaming down
the line, and maybe a 6800 Ultra is silly to buy, but possibly springing
for a 6600GT would be a good idea.

* OEM parts will save you money, but you only get a factory warranty with
retail parts. That's important, because some retail houses are difficult
to
RMA parts to. Factory warranties are usually longer than OEM store
warranties, too.

* Buy from reputable dealers. Personally, it's rare that I buy anything
over
the internet from someone other than either www.zipzoomfly.com or
www.newegg.com. They simply have the best service to price relationship.
Sure, I can get on www.pricegrabber.com or www.pricewatch.com and find a
cheaper price somewhere else, but a bargain is not always a bargain.
Usually, I get 2nd day shipping free from either ZipZoomFly or New Egg, so
that usually offsets the artificially low price you'll see on those price
hunting websites.

* Take your time, and follow the instructions that come with your
motherboard. Make sure all motherboard risers have a hole and all holes
have a riser. Make sure the IO panel doesn't have any metal that contacts
internal pins on any of the back ports it comes in contact with, before
you
turn on the power. Make sure all cards are properly and completely seated
in their corresponding slots. Make sure the processor seats correctly when
you install it, and the heatsink is properly and completely seated. Once
you build, mentally go through a checklist to see if you forgot to do
anything, before you turn it on. Keep your cables tucked under and out of
the way, and make sure the path for air to circulate from the bottom of
the
front of the case to the top of the rear is free of any obstructions.

* Last but not least, cross your fingers and hope for the best as you flip
the switch...

Amen. Well said.

I've built/rebuilt ~ 100 pc's. I still applaud when it boots up the very
first time. Sometimes it's nothing more than the power plug to the drive
isn't all the way in. Sometimes, one of the ide power lines just doesn't
work reliably or the ide data cable has gone bad. I.e, real low tech issues
you tend to never expect. Or, I just didn't get the video card seated
right, etc, etc.

 

[Bryan Hoover]

Amen. Well said.

I've built/rebuilt ~ 100 pc's. I still applaud when it boots up the very
first time. Sometimes it's nothing more than the power plug to the drive
isn't all the way in. Sometimes, one of the ide power lines just doesn't
work reliably or the ide data cable has gone bad. I.e, real low tech issues
you tend to never expect. Or, I just didn't get the video card seated
right, etc, etc.

There are a lot of variables. Much can wrong. Start with just the board, cpu
(heatsink, and fan too of course), memory, video, and power. If it posts, add
the rest -- might even, after successfully posting, just add the harddrive and
CD, and then install the OS, before adding any other periphs, or expansion
cards, if you really want to get incremental about it.

I can still remember about 4 months ago, installing two 1.2G AMD MPs on my Tyan
s2462, along with two big heatsinks, and fans; 512MB ECC DDR memory, and monitor
to the onboard video. It posted and I was off to the races.

Bryan

 

[Conor]

In what % of times would a first-time builder put together a computer and have
it turn on and function the first time you turn on the switch?

100% if you follow the instructions and take your time.

OTOH, what are the major pitfalls that produce failure?

Primarily using crap cheap no name components, especially memory.
Forgetting to move the Clear CMOS jumper.
Forgetting to turn on the PSU switch (funny as hell to observe).

 

[petermcmillan_uk]

In what % of times would a first-time builder put together a computer and have
it turn on and function the first time you turn on the switch?

OTOH, what are the major pitfalls that produce failure? Are most failures able
to be overcome without having to replace parts? Thanks.

A lot of it is quite straight forward, but I'd consider the processor
to be the hardest part. I use thermal compound on my CPU, and you've
got to make sure it's not too much, and not too little. My cooler is
also quite fiddly to put on, which makes it even more difficult. It's
also worth checking that all of the connectors are pushed in properly
before turning on.

 

[Damon]

Take your time and recognize the signs of fatigue
and frustration *before* they cause you to make a mistake.

It's amazing how many problems are easily solved later by just walking away
from it, for now, and getting a good night's rest.

 

[ropeyarn]

In what % of times would a first-time builder put together a computer and have
it turn on and function the first time you turn on the switch?

OTOH, what are the major pitfalls that produce failure? Are most failures able
to be overcome without having to replace parts? Thanks.

Lots of possible pitfalls.

DO your homework and take your time.

My first homebuilt worked perfectly from the first time I applied power.
This summer when replacing my kids motherboard, I DF-ed and fried her
CPU...even though I know what I'm doing, we all have our moments....

 

[Matt]

hoping to cut costs by using a used case and PSU.

How much do you think you will save that way?

 

[ropeyarn]

PcChips

M863G. I've already bought 512 MB of PNY DDR333 lifetime guaranteed RAM. I'm
hoping to cut costs by using a used case and PSU.

You will save little by going with a used PSU. This is the one area to
choose new over used, name brand over generic, and more capacity than
you think you need.

There are many decent motherboards available for less than US $100. If
you are buying such a motherboard, consider offerings from makers other
than PC Chips....

 

[Ruel Smith]

How much do you think you will save that way?

Honestly, in my opinion, the original poster is waaay off base for a first
build, wanting to use a used power supply, get a PC Chips motherboard, etc.
For a first build, I would (and did) want the most reliable parts I could
buy. I combed over reviews and newsgroups for about 3 months as I gathered
up all the parts. I made sure to get the most reliable parts with the best
performance I could get for my money before I started. This guy has taken
the opposite approach. He'll be here after he puts it together with all
kinds of post problems and hardware that isn't working properly.

 

[Bob Kruse]

In what % of times would a first-time builder put together a computer and have
it turn on and function the first time you turn on the switch?

This question is too hard to answer. A first time builder with no one
to ask for help and no experience with installing any hardware or any
operating system is probably doomed to a 20% success rate. A person
who researches their hardware for quality and compatibility first and
has a friend to help or even just a good rapport with this group and
has installed something that required opening the case probably has a
75% chance of first time success. It really depends on your existing
knowledge and your ability to get help when you need it.

OTOH, what are the major pitfalls that produce failure? Are most failures able
to be overcome without having to replace parts? Thanks.

Some things can be dead on arrival. Motherboards and ram come to mind
first. Then you have to replace them. For my first build, I bought
the case online but I bought the motherboard and ram locally and from
the same place so there wouldn't be any finger pointing to the "other
guy" if something failed.

Things you're likely to do wrong that won't require replacing parts
are installing ide cables backwards and failing to seat ram or pci
cards properly. Also not pushing in the keyboard and mouse connectors
and even forgetting to actually hook up the monitor before you push
the on button. It's usually something small like that but will drive
you crazy trying to figure it out.

Good luck,

Bob Kruse

 

[Conor]

Honestly, in my opinion, the original poster is waaay off base for a first
build, wanting to use a used power supply, get a PC Chips motherboard, etc.

PC Chips mobos are no longer the nightmare they used to be. I built 20
Office systems based on a 810MLR PC Chips mobo and 3 years later
they're still going strong despite being on 24/7/365.