Nvidia ATI Recommendation

[Sam Higgins]

x-no-archive: yes

Hi,

I have been using a Geforce 4 Ti4200 64/Meg card for some time now. I have
been wanting to upgrade and have been reading specs for what is out from
Nvidia and ATI. All the FX, 5200, 5600, 9600, 9700, Pro, Ultra, XT lingo has
rather left me somewhat confused. I recently purchased a GeforceFX 5600XT
128/Meg card and it had WORSE performance than my Geforce 4 64/Meg'er. I
have since learned that XT in ATI land is tops but didn't realize in Geforce
land I guess it is the bottom. Thankfully the store was kind enough to
take it back.

I do not care who makes the chip. I am looking for the best performer for
the best price that runs all the latest games really well, but I don't have
to spend months paying it off on the ol credit card since money is tight
right now. Any online stores to get this deal from in the USA or Canada,
please let me know.

If anyone has the inclination, I am requesting any opinions, website
reviews, card recommendations sent to my email address or I guess you could
post them here if you want. I am reading through the newsgroups, but haven't
found what I am looking for yet. The ATI 9800 Pro sounds good but would like
opinions on it.

Much Appreciated

Sam

(e-mail address removed)

 

[Sunbow]

try this :-
http://www.tomshardware.com/graphic/20031229/index.html
should give you a starting point. I run a 9600XT meself. A Sapphire
`Fireblade` version (it has o/c`d ram as standard)

 

[billp117]

Pretty hard to beat this deal...good value for the performance you will
receive.
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=14-102-268&depa=0
Newegg is very fair to do business
Bill

 

[NightSky 421]

If anyone has the inclination, I am requesting any opinions, website
reviews, card recommendations sent to my email address or I guess you could
post them here if you want. I am reading through the newsgroups, but haven't
found what I am looking for yet. The ATI 9800 Pro sounds good but would like
opinions on it.

I have a built-by-ATI Radeon 9800 Pro with 128MB that I got in the summer of
2003 and it's been an excellent card for me.

In terms of drivers, my experience has been excellent as well. I do
sometimes find that older games (such as NHL Championship 2000) don't like
to run on my big computer with the 9800 Pro, but it's also running Windows
XP, an OS that nowheres close to being released when NHL Championship 2000
came out. It is worth mentioning though that I have a Radeon 9200SE 128MB
card in my second computer, a PIII-933 running Windows 98SE. I'm using the
Catalyst 4.1 drivers on both computers and have no problems with NHL
Championship 2000 on the PIII-933. I have not downloaded or tried out the
Catalyst 4.2 drivers.

That's about the only caveat that I can think of. I'm quite happy with both
ATI's drivers and technology. If you can get a 9800 Pro for a good price
and don't want to wait a couple of months for the next generation of video
cards to come out, it's decent. Otherwise look at getting something like a
9600 Pro or XT.

 

[Sam Higgins]

x-no-archive: yes

Thanks! That Tom's links was perfect! It will save me much time. It looks
like the ATI 9800 Pro and the FX5900 is what it comes down to for me. From
what I have been reading today, it looks like the 9800 is the "slightly"
better DX9 card and the FX5900 is the "slightly" better Open GL card? That's
the impression I am getting.

I am very dispointed with the Nvidia rebranding/numbering everything. I made
a purchase based on casual reading regarding the hyped FX technology and if
it wasn't for a generous retailer, I would have been flusing money down the
toilet. The way the re-numbering was done, it would seem a FX 5600XT would
have been better than a TI4200, but it wasn't. All an advertising game.

I still haven't decided though. I might wait a month and see what happens to
prices. It sounds like either card will do.

 

[Bill Crocker]

Consider ATI's 9800 XT 256MB!

Bill Crocker

 

[Mr. Brian Allen]

The way the re-numbering was done, it would seem a FX 5600XT would

have been better than a TI4200, but it wasn't. All an advertising game.

I still haven't decided though. I might wait a month and see what happens to
prices. It sounds like either card will do.

I still say go for the TI4800 from Newegg.
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=14-127-077&depa=0

For 140 bucks, you can't hardly beat it. Nothing in its price class comes
close.

 

[DD]

Just remember, ATI's drivers suck, install poorly, and are a lot more
confusing than nVidia's. Plus, if you poke around a bit, you will see that
there are some DirectX games that run faster on nVidia than ATI, not just
OpenGL games. (OpenGL on ATI is a joke). Hoever, that's not what is really
important, what you need to do is decide which one looks better to you. When
it comes right down to it the real difference in speed is so minor that it
is irrelevant. All of the high-end cards scream, look great when not plagued
by bugs, and are obsolete before you even put them in your computer.

Personally if I had it to do again I would not have given ATI a second
chance, despire the good performance of my Sapphire Atlantis 9600 Pro 128. I
would have stayed with nVidia and not had to deal with the hassles of an
engineer-designed control panel, crappy OpenGL performance, and many smaller
problems that make me hate ATI.

DD

 

[Sam Higgins]

x-no-archive: yes

People keep sending me those Newegg links. I think that is a hint! They got
great prices. Well, I now know where to buy, just need to decide!!!
Any relation to the old Egghead company?

 

[Sam Higgins]

x-no-archive: yes

Despite being very, very let down by Nvidia, the 5600XT is total poop, I
have been reading about driver issues with ATI. The universal driver
packages from Nvidia are sweet and I have never had a problem with them. I
didn't no about the engineer-designed control panel for ATI cards. That is
good to know.

I personally would rather have good Open GL performance rather than DirectX.
I now seem to remember way back in 3Dfx days, Open GL having repeated issues
in ATI cards. Looks like there's still grips about that. Frame rate and high
resolution is all I am after.

Because of almost getting burned I would like to get the R9800 Pro, however
in my mailbox options are about 50/50 with that card right now. Maybe I will
give Nvidia another chance and break a Nvidia card on Newegg. They got the
best prices I have ever seen! I still want to think about it for a few more
days. I will have to check Newegg's return policy if I don't like what I
get.

 

[JLC]

Pretty hard to beat this deal...good value for the performance you will
receive.
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=14-102-268&depa=0
Newegg is very fair to do business
Bill

I just have to jump in here. I just bought the card above and I couldn't be
happier. I also had a Ti-4200 and the improvement is so amazing I still
can't get over it. I've had a Nvidia card since the TNT days but got sick of
all the confusing products that NVIDIA has been shoving on the unsuspecting
public. The reason I chose to go with a 9800Pro was because I want to be
able to play my games with AA and Anisotropic Filtering. All you have to do
is take a look at this link
http://www.tomshardware.com/graphic/20031229/index.html and it's very clear
that the 9800Pro pulls way ahead of even the 5950 when high levels of AA and
Aniso are applied. No matter what Nvidia says about the FX series of cards,
they still can't beat ATI. And for only $215(plus free shipping) I have a
card that runs my games so beautifully it just blows me away. The best my
4200 could do was Quincunx AA which blurs the crap out of everything. I ran
that card since they came out, so now I'm seeing my games really for the
first time the way they are supposed to look.
And another thing you have to remember about the FX cards is that they take
up a PCI slot with there huge fans. My 9800 runs so quiet I can't hear it
and it doesn't take up a extra slot.
I've been testing the crap out of the card for four days now, and I'll tell
you a little story about what I discovered. I was thinking about what game
would really push the card so I thought what better game to try out but
Unreal 2. Before I could run it at 1024x768 no AA no Aniso. I had to turn
down all of the games eye candy to medium, and turn off the shadows (with
shadows the game crawled). It ran OK set up like this, but sometimes it
would slow way down in a firefight. So I reinstalled the game a few days
ago. I set my card to 4xAA 4x Aniso. I set the game to 1024x768 all setting
on high, turned on the shadows. I nearly fell out of my chair when I started
playing. First the game looks so damn cool with all the eyecandy and 4x AA.
Second it runs like butter! I didn't expect it to run that great with 4xAA
and 4xAniso turned on!! And the lighting is amazing.
What is so incredible about this card is that you can go from 2x Ansio to
4x and only loose maybe 2 FPS. With my old card it would just lay down and
die with 4x AA let alone any type of Ansio. And for the guy that is telling
you that the driver control panel is to hard to understand, don't believe
that for a sec. It's no more complicated then the current Nvidia controls.
In fact I like the way the ATI panel is laid out better. So I say forget
about Nvidia. Give ATI a try. Once you see what your games look like with
all the eye candy turned on you'll never look back.
Oh and I'm just curios about why you're so concerned about OpenGL? Sure
Doom3 is going to be OpenGL but how many other games are there that run
better in OpenGL vs. DX9? I haven't installed one game in the last two years
that really needed OpenGL. Plus the whole point of these new cards is the
fact that they are DX9 cards. JLC

 

[Darthy]

I have been using a Geforce 4 Ti4200 64/Meg card for some time now. I have
been wanting to upgrade and have been reading specs for what is out from
Nvidia and ATI. All the FX, 5200, 5600, 9600, 9700, Pro, Ultra, XT lingo has

Stupid of Nvidia... yes?

rather left me somewhat confused. I recently purchased a GeforceFX 5600XT
128/Meg card and it had WORSE performance than my Geforce 4 64/Meg'er. I
have since learned that XT in ATI land is tops but didn't realize in Geforce

LOL.... When a regular 5600 is slower than the Ti4200... the 64bit
5600xt is half as fast.

If anyone has the inclination, I am requesting any opinions, website
reviews, card recommendations sent to my email address or I guess you could
post them here if you want. I am reading through the newsgroups, but haven't
found what I am looking for yet. The ATI 9800 Pro sounds good but would like
opinions on it.

9800Pro is $200usd now... get them while you can...

PS: I still have my Ti4200... very good card.

 

[Darthy]

I still say go for the TI4800 from Newegg.
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=14-127-077&depa=0

For 140 bucks, you can't hardly beat it. Nothing in its price class comes
close.

Why the **** would anyone spend $140 for a videocard that is SLIGHTLY
faster than their current? The Ti4600 (which is what a 4800 is) is
about 5~7fps faster in modern games over the Ti4200.

For $10 more, he would get noticable improvemwnt with a 5700 or ATI
9600XT. For $200, he could DOULBLE the performance over an ATI9600
with a 9800Pro... or fx5900Ultra.

 

[Darthy]

Just remember, ATI's drivers suck, install poorly, and are a lot more

No more than Nvidia... Dunno... install just the same. Its too easy
to blame a problem on a company. Afterall, Nvidia or Intel (cough
64bit) never screws up.

confusing than nVidia's. Plus, if you poke around a bit, you will see that

Confusing? Download driver. CLick on EXE file - click oKAY, yes
agree, default install directory, ckick OKAY, reboot. Driver
installed. Or is driver ver# too confusion? V 3.8 is older than
3.10. Nvidia only has 52.17, 53.25, etc etc...

there are some DirectX games that run faster on nVidia than ATI, not just
OpenGL games. (OpenGL on ATI is a joke). Hoever, that's not what is really

Yep... not all games run FAST on ATI or Nvidia - same as Intel is NOT
always faster than AMD in the same chip class.

OpenGL on ATI is weak, but not useless... okay, the 9800Pro gets
203fps while the fx5900Ultra does 228 OMG! QuakeIII IS NOT
PLAYABLE!! (9600Pro - 150+fps)....

would have stayed with nVidia and not had to deal with the hassles of an
engineer-designed control panel, crappy OpenGL performance, and many smaller
problems that make me hate ATI.

Hmmm... I'm as happy with my ATI card as I was with my Ti4200. No
stablity issues or driver issues since I installed it. And that was
on Win98 and WinXP.

 

[Darthy]

x-no-archive: yes

Despite being very, very let down by Nvidia, the 5600XT is total poop, I
have been reading about driver issues with ATI. The universal driver
packages from Nvidia are sweet and I have never had a problem with them. I
didn't no about the engineer-designed control panel for ATI cards. That is
good to know.

I personally would rather have good Open GL performance rather than DirectX.
I now seem to remember way back in 3Dfx days, Open GL having repeated issues
in ATI cards. Looks like there's still grips about that. Frame rate and high
resolution is all I am after.

Because of almost getting burned I would like to get the R9800 Pro, however
in my mailbox options are about 50/50 with that card right now. Maybe I will
give Nvidia another chance and break a Nvidia card on Newegg. They got the
best prices I have ever seen! I still want to think about it for a few more
days. I will have to check Newegg's return policy if I don't like what I
get.

The ATI9800 maystill be on sale at CompUSA for $200 (after 30 rebate).

Check out TOM's comparison chart... read the whole article:

http://www6.tomshardware.com/graphic/20031229/vga-charts-05.html


A 5900Ultra and 9800Pro are both good products.

If you go with the 5900 - get the MSI, it is very silent - I know from
experince.

 

[Dark Avenger]

Just remember, ATI's drivers suck, install poorly, and are a lot more
confusing than nVidia's. Plus, if you poke around a bit, you will see that
there are some DirectX games that run faster on nVidia than ATI, not just
OpenGL games. (OpenGL on ATI is a joke). Hoever, that's not what is really
important, what you need to do is decide which one looks better to you. When
it comes right down to it the real difference in speed is so minor that it
is irrelevant. All of the high-end cards scream, look great when not plagued
by bugs, and are obsolete before you even put them in your computer.

Personally if I had it to do again I would not have given ATI a second
chance, despire the good performance of my Sapphire Atlantis 9600 Pro 128. I
would have stayed with nVidia and not had to deal with the hassles of an
engineer-designed control panel, crappy OpenGL performance, and many smaller
problems that make me hate ATI.

DD

Hey Fanboy, ... tell me.. do you still have those psychological
problems from the FX debacle?

 

[Darthy]

x-no-archive: yes

Thanks! That Tom's links was perfect! It will save me much time. It looks
like the ATI 9800 Pro and the FX5900 is what it comes down to for me. From
what I have been reading today, it looks like the 9800 is the "slightly"
better DX9 card and the FX5900 is the "slightly" better Open GL card? That's
the impression I am getting.

I am very dispointed with the Nvidia rebranding/numbering everything. I made
a purchase based on casual reading regarding the hyped FX technology and if
it wasn't for a generous retailer, I would have been flusing money down the
toilet. The way the re-numbering was done, it would seem a FX 5600XT would
have been better than a TI4200, but it wasn't. All an advertising game.

I have a chart for you to help explain the model numbers of current
Nvidia chips... I'm sure it will remove any confusion! (tehe)


Nvidia (CURRENT) - all cards are 128mb unless noted.

5950Ultra
5950
5900Ultra - 256mb
5900Ultra
5900 - 256mb
5900
5900xt
5700Ultra
5700 - 256mb
5700
5600Ultra
5600 - 256mb
5600
5600xt - 256mb
5600xt
5600xt -64bit
5500Ultra
5500 - 256mb
5500
5500xt
5500xt -64bit
5200Ultra
5200 - 256mb
5200
5200 - 64bit
5200 - 64bit 64mb
5200 - 64bit PCI
5200 - 64bit PCI 64mb
GF4 MX440 (and or PCI) = AVG = $60
GF4 MX440se (over clocked version of 420mx)
GF2 MX (and or PCI) = AVG $30
MX4000 - unknown, recently appeared * Read "MX4K note" below

TOTAL: 32 cards types + 3 VIVO-Tuner class varients.

PS: InnoVision is the ONLY company making a PCI version of the fx5600.
(I didn't count PCI version of non GF5/FX series of cards - these
cards are still easy to find and sold in major locatons: CompUSA/Wal
Mart / Best Buy - While TI4x00 cards are gone. Nvidia is keeping hold
of the $30~50 market.

NOTE: 7 versions of the 5200, 4 of them them with the same name "5200"
which you may NOT know which you are getting.

NOTE: All 256mb versions of (besides 5900) are not ULTRAs. Many of
these 256 vesions cost more than the Ultras. A 5200-256mb can cost
more than a 5600 (128bit)

MX NOTE: unknown chip , recently appeared - XFX / MSI / Gainward /
Chaintech / eVGA / Gigabyte / Jaton / ASUS sell this for $50~75. IT
doesn't. MSI put it below the MX440. It does NOT appear to exisit on
Nvidia's website. My guess, its a cheaper version of the mx420?
It's an NV18 core / 64bit / single video output / 275mhz core/ 183mhz
clk (364Mhz DDR) So it seems they the 440mx/5200-64bit were not
slowe and cheap enough... its a 64bit 440mx (which is what a 420 is).


NOTE: Consider this, of the FX AGP line, Nvidia has 10 cards that are
SLOWER than a $75 Ti4200. These range in a price of $50~190!!

Nvidia has 10 cards that sell within a range of $140! That's $14
difference per card (Kinda).

 

[david bazley]

Darthy said:

9800Pro is $200usd now... get them while you can...

I have just ordered this for FS2004 new price over here in UK £134+tax. Did
I do the right thing?

Baz

 

[JLC]

Why the **** would anyone spend $140 for a videocard that is SLIGHTLY
faster than their current? The Ti4600 (which is what a 4800 is) is
about 5~7fps faster in modern games over the Ti4200.

Plus the fact the he could very easily OC his card to 4600 speed. The card
is a very good clocker. JLC

 

[Mr. Brian Allen]

Plus the fact the he could very easily OC his card to 4600 speed. The card

is a very good clocker. JLC

He could turn right around and sell his 4200 for 100 bucks and then
overclock the 4800. That's what I did. I just jumped from a 4200 to a 4800
and it made a big difference in games. Maybe I'm just picky.