Not OT, right on topic: Ridiculous prices+rich(?) people=inflation in the market

[Mark Leuck]

Its all marketing. They know that x% of the buying population will pay $55, and after that, another
y% will pay $30.00, and finally, it will sell for $20.00

Play them at their own game and buy in when you feel good with the price.

Quake 3 Arena goes for $10.99 at Amazon at the moment

S

$9.99 at Frye's, they were also selling Quake II at the same price

 

[Mark Leuck]

Several years ago, NVidia's flagship product was the TNT2 Ultra. The price
was about $250. Now it's the Geforce 6800 Ultra @ $500. That's a 100%
increase.

Better card tho

 

[GTD]

Not only will you save money if you don't buy, but you will put pressure on
the
companies to offer more value for the dollar. This will drive more
innovation.

So, what you are saying is that companies put MORE money into R&D for
a product when it DOESN'T sell. I find that hard to believe

The argument that the extra dollars go to R&D is purely hypothetical.
At this point, we don't know where the money goes-it may go into
advertising or into the pockets of executives.

However I don't think
that high prices drive innovation.

Well then, how would LOW prices? You're saying that if they have less
money, they will spend more on R&D.

More competition and discerning
customers that demand high value for a reasonable price drive innovation
more than than customers that buy the hottest thing available for
the highest price.

I don't think so. The higher priced/higher performing items yeild
higher profits. THAT is what drives innovation, the need for them to
have the highest perfoming item possible on the market

Buy your cards and games for best performance per dollar, not just
best performance.

Like I stated in another reply, that is exactly why people work and
try to succed/excel in their jobs/life, So they don't HAVE to settle
for a lesser item or wait until it's years old. Especially with
computers. Look how many people buy luxury cars, when after all, a
basic full-size car will do basically the same thing, and with that,
We're talking about 10s of thousands of dollars, not a measley 1-2
hundred dollars. That is how the system works: if you want more things
and better things, you work harder andsacrifice in other places.

Dick Kistler

You should start drinking prune juice and KY jelly cocktails right now,
that will make things a lot smoother.
-Felatio Love

 

[Augustus]

Several years ago, NVidia's flagship product was the TNT2 Ultra. The price
was about $250. Now it's the Geforce 6800 Ultra @ $500. That's a 100%
increase.

I bought a 64Mb Geforce2 GTS Pro when it was new. It was close to $400 Cdn.
They've always been high.

 

[Biz]

Why must you buy the most expensive card? There are obviously those
who are willing to buy it though, otherwise it wouldn't be made. Think
of how much fancy cars, boats, etc. and other hobbies cost.

not really when you factor in the time value of money some economica
geeknoid I'm sure could say for sure, but $250 back then, is probably like
$400 today...

 

[The Black Wibble]

Hi,

I just can't help but see that people are not pissed off, but in fact paying
these ridiculous graphics card bills.

I remember the days we were paying $65 for a really good graphics card.
Although I know that todays's cards are way way different than those days',
I still think that especially latest generation cards are way overpriced.
$600?!? $500? Please, even $400?

Always remember: If no one buys them, the prices WILL go down, and quick!
The rich, or dumb, pull the prices up, and keep them up by paying for these
ridiculous price tags; and we all loose!

It would make no difference because lowering the price would make the
shortage of 6800 based cards more endemic than even now. nVidia can't
produce enough 6800 chips to satify demand which is why the prices for the
cards are so high. So you're just gonna have to wait until the volume of
cards produced is greatly increased before the competition for them is far
less than the now thereby causing prices to drop.

The companies will milk the bejeesus out of us, if they can, nad they will.
Why would not they? If I could sell something for the most that I could sell
it for,i.e., not for what it's worth, why would I sell it for any lower,
right?

Think! To "milk the bejeesus out of us" you'd sell 1000 $600 hyper-wobblets
pulling $600,000 in revenue rather than sell 20,000 $400 hyper-wobblets and
get $8,000,000 in revenue? This is benefiting you?

Tony.

 

[Andrew]

I remember the days we were paying $65 for a really good graphics card.

Care to qualify that statement? Even low end cards cost that, there
has never been a medium to high end card costing that little.

 

[RancidButtChutney]

I just can't help but see that people are not pissed off, but in fact paying
these ridiculous graphics card bills.

1) R&D costs money.
2) Manufacture costs money. The manufacture of a new product initially
costs more than an existing and established product.
3) Marketting costs money.
4) Distribution costs money.

nVidia (and ATI) *need* to make the above effort worth their while so
as to recoup any investments made. That means high initial prices, which
will be most evident in step 2 above.

Once the latest generation are establish and the nVidia and ATI are
comfortably in the red with regards their newest offerings, the
manufacturing
costs are reduced (bulk fabrication is cheaper than one unit here and one
there, which is close to the case now) and the bean counters are happy with
the returns, the prices will go down. It's the same with every product,
regardless of its intendent audience.

(Unless you live in Great Britain, of course. Where, unlike most over
countries
"charge what it's worth" applies, it's customary to "charge what you can get
away with".)

 

[Villain]

Just remember this rule, it's an absolute:

The value of anything is what it's worth to whomever wants it. Doesn't
matter if it's a comic book, a video card, a car, a Rolex, etc.

I agree that prices of todays cards seem high. But trust me, there has
been a lot of market research into pricing. Most any company will
price a product as high as they think they can sell it for. Especially
in an industry with very little competition. ATI and NVidia both know
what the market will bear. If people stop buying the high in cards,
they will stop *making* the high end cards.

Villain

"A vague disclaimer is nobody's friend"- Willow Rosenberg

 

[Mickey Johnson]

You have to remember, to many, its not a rediculous price. For many, the
difference between 300 and 500 is nothing. I can remember when the voodoo
2's came out and many people were buying two 300 dollar cards to have twice
the fill rate (that was the only gain for buying the second card).

For me what has changed in the industry, while there are a few cutting edge
games for the pc, is the software market has gone to the consoles. I just
picked up a xbox last week because there just isn't enough software anymore
for the pc for it to be my only gaming platform. I bought it with money I
had set aside for a new video card (I am running a Gforce 3 right now).
Instead of buying a 6800 Ultra, most likely, I will buy a GT in a couple of
months. When I got into PC gaming in 1990, a low end system was $1000 and
top of the line was $3000. It's still the same now with exception of you
can go a bit cheaper and a bit more expensive (the gap has gotten wider).
Also I can remember buying strike commander (cutting edge gaming software)
for $60 and paying another $20 for the speech pack. Software is exactly
the same price as before (with the exeption of more budget software now) as
it was 10 years ago (even 20 years ago if you look at the old 8-bit computer
stuff).
--
Mickster

Visit my website and see my arcade!!

http://mickster.freeservers.com

 

[JK]

Software cost a tremendous amout of to develop, but each extra copy
costs very little to make. It is hard to plan a pricing strategy that will
maximize profits for the game makers. Perhaps in the future we might
see inovative pricing for games, such as a strategy of not dropping the
price for a game, but offering the consumer a chance to buy a game
that is no longer selling so well at a big discount if bought at the same
time as the more current game.

 

[Nada]

Hi,

I just can't help but see that people are not pissed off, but in fact paying
these ridiculous graphics card bills.

I remember the days we were paying $65 for a really good graphics card.
Although I know that todays's cards are way way different than those days',
I still think that especially latest generation cards are way overpriced.
$600?!? $500? Please, even $400?

Always remember: If no one buys them, the prices WILL go down, and quick!
The rich, or dumb, pull the prices up, and keep them up by paying for these
ridiculous price tags; and we all loose!

The companies will milk the bejeesus out of us, if they can, nad they will.
Why would not they? If I could sell something for the most that I could sell
it for,i.e., not for what it's worth, why would I sell it for any lower,
right?

Same applies to latest (especially hyped) games, a very good example is
Doom3. $55 for a game? Good God! No way I am paying that. Card prices are
already inflated, I am not going to help inflating the game prices now.

Come on people, THINK and ACT! Please...
I thought that the 'computer community' was a little smarter than this.
Let's not be herd by the marketers of these companies.

What do you think? Spell your guts, it's your turn.

GT

I think graphics card prices have always been very high, at least in
the country I live in. The maximum price I saw for the GeForce 6800
Ultra was ridiculously high, topping at over 800 euros! Most basic
6800s are still around 350 to 400 euros, which to me is way too much
even to think of upgrading from GeForce 5900 XT or Radeon 9800 Pro.
6800 GT is on the same price level now than GeForce 2 GTS was a few
years back in my area. The prices need to come down about 50 euros
before I consider upgrading to a 6800. Make no mistake, those 5900XTs
and 9800 Pros are still handy, but we have reached a new level of
graphics with "Far Cry" and "Doom 3", and we'll beginning to see more
intense and heavy gaming environments in the fall and early spring
2005. 30 to 40 frame-rates at 1024 x 768 is tolerable, but my cards
are only a notch away from the low end experience. Those who are
impatient of waiting and want to upgrade now, don't really lose any
money, if you look at it in the long term, but those 400 buckaroos are
still 400 buckaroos = 2 x Xboxes. In that retrospect, it is a tough
price to break through without cringing.

 

[McGrandpa]

I think graphics card prices have always been very high, at least in
the country I live in. The maximum price I saw for the GeForce 6800
Ultra was ridiculously high, topping at over 800 euros! Most basic
6800s are still around 350 to 400 euros, which to me is way too much
even to think of upgrading from GeForce 5900 XT or Radeon 9800 Pro.
6800 GT is on the same price level now than GeForce 2 GTS was a few
years back in my area. The prices need to come down about 50 euros
before I consider upgrading to a 6800. Make no mistake, those 5900XTs
and 9800 Pros are still handy, but we have reached a new level of
graphics with "Far Cry" and "Doom 3", and we'll beginning to see more
intense and heavy gaming environments in the fall and early spring
2005. 30 to 40 frame-rates at 1024 x 768 is tolerable, but my cards
are only a notch away from the low end experience. Those who are
impatient of waiting and want to upgrade now, don't really lose any
money, if you look at it in the long term, but those 400 buckaroos are
still 400 buckaroos = 2 x Xboxes. In that retrospect, it is a tough
price to break through without cringing.

Supply and demand, it's a dog eat dog world here My very first Video
Card cost me $269.95 back in 1987. That card had been out for a couple
years when I bought one. There weren't so many computers to put things
in, so demand being somewhat low (extremely low by todays standards),
there wasn't really any push to develop new technology. Who was gonna
buy it? New ideas, newer faster systems, newer standards. VGA. yeah,
good one. That standard gave us LOTS more than 2, 4 or even 16 colors!
Yep, 256. That video card was an ATI VGA Wonder 1.0 512K card. VGA
was fairly new, but that card had dual outputs, EGA and VGA, plus a PS2
mouse port. Very advanced. I used that card for more than five years
without a though to upgrading it. Until I couldn't play DOOM with that
system!
Necessity is the Mother of Invention. Just an offshoot of
supply/demand.
You guys are right, the vendors won't charge more than they believe the
market will bear. But with hot games and gamer enthusiasts, that market
will bear a lot. The vendors are trying to edge the cutting edge
pricepoint up every time they come out with something major/new. When
it doesn't 'go Gold' before it hits the shelves, then they drop the
price. No pre-orders? Hm...knock 40 off. And so on....
McG.

 

[Eric Witte]

I think graphics card prices have always been very high, at least in

the country I live in. The maximum price I saw for the GeForce 6800
Ultra was ridiculously high, topping at over 800 euros! Most basic
6800s are still around 350 to 400 euros, which to me is way too much
even to think of upgrading from GeForce 5900 XT or Radeon 9800 Pro.
6800 GT is on the same price level now than GeForce 2 GTS was a few
years back in my area. The prices need to come down about 50 euros
before I consider upgrading to a 6800. Make no mistake, those 5900XTs
and 9800 Pros are still handy, but we have reached a new level of
graphics with "Far Cry" and "Doom 3", and we'll beginning to see more
intense and heavy gaming environments in the fall and early spring
2005. 30 to 40 frame-rates at 1024 x 768 is tolerable, but my cards
are only a notch away from the low end experience. Those who are
impatient of waiting and want to upgrade now, don't really lose any
money, if you look at it in the long term, but those 400 buckaroos are
still 400 buckaroos = 2 x Xboxes. In that retrospect, it is a tough
price to break through without cringing.

Paying $200 and upgrading every 12 months costs the same as paying
$300 and upgrading every 18 months. By waiting for a video card to
drop in price your effectively losing the use of a product during the
most productive phase of its life cycle.

Eric