Norton 2003 Ghost Questions: please help!

[MissLivvy]

Hello, I just bought a 120 GB external hard drive and a copy of 2003 Ghost.
I want to be able to restore my computers (a laptop and a PC) in the even
of a hard drive crash, blue screen, etc, (i.e., I crash and cannot boot from
windows). I read the Ghost manual and I am having trouble understanding it.
Here are my questions.

1] What is the difference between a back up image and a clone? Which one
should I select for my intended purpose?

2] Do I need to create a separate partition on the external hard drive for
each system I want to backup/clone?

3] If my external hard drive is FAT32 partitioned, and my laptop and PC are
NTFS, should I reformat the external to NTFS before I do anything else? It
seems this should not matter but I am not sure.

4] The Ghost manual says you don't need to create a bootable floppy if you
image to CD. Is there an option to make my external hard drive bootable? The
main reason I ask this is because one of my computers does not have a floppy
drive. It seems Ghost only has the capacity to create a bootable floppy, as
opposed to a bootable CD. Can I create a bootable floppy on my PC with a
floppy drive, burn it to CD, and use it as a bootable CD for my laptop which
does not have a floppy drive?


TIA for any help!!!!

 

[Doggy]

Hello, I just bought a 120 GB external hard drive and a copy of 2003 Ghost.
I want to be able to restore my computers (a laptop and a PC) in the even
of a hard drive crash, blue screen, etc, (i.e., I crash and cannot boot from
windows). I read the Ghost manual and I am having trouble understanding it.
Here are my questions.

1] What is the difference between a back up image and a clone? Which one
should I select for my intended purpose?

I dont know the full answer to the first question, I myself always used
clone option, since it makes exact copy of your system at that point, so if
anything goes wrong (hdd dies, windows dies and such), you can go back to
exactly same system as it was at the moment of making the image.

2] Do I need to create a separate partition on the external hard drive for
each system I want to backup/clone?

No, you dont, since you can name your images whatever you want, so you do
not need to have separate partitions for each system.

3] If my external hard drive is FAT32 partitioned, and my laptop and PC are
NTFS, should I reformat the external to NTFS before I do anything else? It
seems this should not matter but I am not sure.

It is better to leave it FAT32, since you can use simple win98 boot disk
with ghost.exe on it to restore your images. To see NTFS you need additional
software. Ghost can make images of NTFS partitions/disks but i think that it
needs support from boot medium to read images from NTFS ( I mean that your
boot medium, either CD or floppy must have NTFS read support for Ghost to be
able to see files (images) that it needs to read from NTFS).

4] The Ghost manual says you don't need to create a bootable floppy if you
image to CD. Is there an option to make my external hard drive bootable? The
main reason I ask this is because one of my computers does not have a floppy
drive. It seems Ghost only has the capacity to create a bootable floppy, as
opposed to a bootable CD. Can I create a bootable floppy on my PC with a
floppy drive, burn it to CD, and use it as a bootable CD for my laptop which
does not have a floppy drive?

You can use nero or some other cd writing tool to make bootable cd from
that floppy ghost makes. There is usualy special option of making a bootable
cd, where programs asks you where are the files it needs to put in cd's
bootable area, and at that point you should insert floppy ghost made, and
point cd writing program to copy files from that floppy.

Hope this helps,

Doggy

 

[MissLivvy]

2] Do I need to create a separate partition on the external hard drive for
each system I want to backup/clone?

No, you dont, since you can name your images whatever you want, so you do
not need to have separate partitions for each system.

So does that mean I would do a disk-to-image file clone, and the resulting
image file would be bootable?
I was thinking I needed to do a disk-to-disk clone in order to have the
clone be bootable, but then since disk-to-disk clone writes over the entire
disk, I could only have one bootable clone per external hard drive. Again,
this gets into the area where I lack understanding about the difference
between image file and clone, etc.

You can use nero or some other cd writing tool to make bootable cd from
that floppy ghost makes. There is usualy special option of making a bootable
cd, where programs asks you where are the files it needs to put in cd's
bootable area, and at that point you should insert floppy ghost made, and
point cd writing program to copy files from that floppy.

Thanks. Fortunately I have Nero on my PC and was able to create the bootable
CD by burning it from the floppy I created using Ghost.
I did not try yet to book my laptop with the CD yet ...


Finally, have you ever successfully restored a computer using the clone?
This sounded like such a wonderful idea in the beginning, but I'm starting
to have my doubts about it at this point ...

Thanks Again!

 

[Will Dormann]

So does that mean I would do a disk-to-image file clone, and the resulting
image file would be bootable?
I was thinking I needed to do a disk-to-disk clone in order to have the
clone be bootable, but then since disk-to-disk clone writes over the entire
disk, I could only have one bootable clone per external hard drive. Again,
this gets into the area where I lack understanding about the difference
between image file and clone, etc.

A disk clone is used when you want to replace a drive in a PC. If you
are just backing up a machine for disaster recovery or whatnot, you'll
probably want to use an image. When you want to go back to the last
backup of the system, you boot with Ghost and restore the image to your
main hard drive.

If you create an image, you can have multiple images from multiple
machines on your external hard drive. (assuming you have the space)

Thanks. Fortunately I have Nero on my PC and was able to create the bootable
CD by burning it from the floppy I created using Ghost.
I did not try yet to book my laptop with the CD yet ...

You'd better try that ASAP.

Finally, have you ever successfully restored a computer using the clone?
This sounded like such a wonderful idea in the beginning, but I'm starting
to have my doubts about it at this point ...

Yes, I have successfully restored my system from Ghost images.
I have dropped Ghost for Acronis TrueImage. TrueImage has many more
features, including scheduled and incremental backups, imaging while
windows is running without needing to reboot to DOS, native "Network
Neighborhood" support from the bootable rescue CD, and more...

I've even created a self-contained bootable DVD that contains an image
of my C: drive that starts right up into TrueImage. (For one further
level of protection past my external USB drive)


-WD

 

[Timothy Daniels]

A disk clone is used when you want to replace a drive in a PC. If you
are just backing up a machine for disaster recovery or whatnot, you'll
probably want to use an image. When you want to go back to the last
backup of the system, you boot with Ghost and restore the image to your
main hard drive.

If you create an image, you can have multiple images from multiple
machines on your external hard drive. (assuming you have the space)

With PowerQuest (now Symantec) Drive Image running on WinXP,
I can make multiple bootable clones on one hard drive. Only one clone
is bootable at a time, though. To make another clone bootable, one must
first boot the bootable one, then adjust its boot.ini file to point to the
desired clone (i.e. partition), then reboot. An alternate way to change
the bootable clone is to use Disk Management to change the "active"
partition to the one that you want to boot up. In that partition you have a
boot.ini file that designates its own partition to be the one that gets booted.
In these ways, you don' need no steenkeeng "boot disk" to boot a desired
clone residing on a HD that carries multiple clones. The only extra step
is to adjust the boot.ini files after cloning to point to the correct partition
(which is usually not the partition that it pointed to when it ran on the
original HD). This is probably also possible using Ghost, True Image,
etc. In my system, I have a 2nd HD always running with several
clones on it, and by adjusting the BIOS' boot priority, I can boot any
clone that resides on the 2nd HD without having to futz with opening the
case and installing another HD. I also have a 3rd and 4th HD for safe
off-site storage of cloned systems.

*TimDaniels*

 

[Joe Frost]

I have to agree with Will on True Image, easy as cake. Plus, you can
easily back-up to a network drive or second drive without re-booting.

See http://www.savingsdiscovery.com/specials/essentials.htm

Joe

 

[MissLivvy]

A disk clone is used when you want to replace a drive in a PC. If you
are just backing up a machine for disaster recovery or whatnot, you'll
probably want to use an image.

I am not interested in using Ghost for backing up data. I am a software
developer and after installing the OS, it takes many hours to install all
the different apps I need to get my development environment set up. What I
want is to be able to quickly restore a clean working build should Windows
become corrupted or my hard drive fails. (For backing up data/files I use
source code control and burn other documents onto CD.) I think what I need
to do then is do the clone, for insurance against possible hard drive
failure. It would still be interesting for me to know what is the technical
difference between the clone and the image if both would result in a
bootable restore.

If you create an image, you can have multiple images from multiple
machines on your external hard drive. (assuming you have the space)

And I can use these to restore a bootable OS, but only on the original hard
drive they were created from?

You'd better try that ASAP.

It didn't work! Did I screw something up? I am going to try it again.

Yes, I have successfully restored my system from Ghost images.
I have dropped Ghost for Acronis TrueImage. TrueImage has many more

I just looked at True Image. Even the description on the web page is 10x
more user friendly than Ghost. Crap. I already bought Ghost!
I've been cursing it ever since ...

 

[Peter]

I am not interested in using Ghost for backing up data. I am a software
developer and after installing the OS, it takes many hours to install all
the different apps I need to get my development environment set up. What I
want is to be able to quickly restore a clean working build should Windows
become corrupted or my hard drive fails. (For backing up data/files I use
source code control and burn other documents onto CD.) I think what I need
to do then is do the clone, for insurance against possible hard drive
failure. It would still be interesting for me to know what is the technical
difference between the clone and the image if both would result in a
bootable restore.

Your restore strategy will depend on how often you will need to perform it.
For a rare ocasion CD/DVD image backup would be fine, but if you need to
restore more often than once each couple of months, I would suggest more
efficient media. An external hard drive is a good option, or through a
network to the network share on other PC (that is what I do). Labour
differences in CD/DVD and disk/share approaches are enormous (you said
"quickly restore").
In Ghost terms there is no difference between clone and image operations.
They are describing the same thing, taking an image of a hard disk (or its
partition) and storing it as an image file on other media (disk file system,
CD, DVD, network share). Image file is obviously not bootable by itself, but
can be restored to the same disk or other disks in the same or other
machines. Then, those systems should become bootable with original disk
OS/data. There are some minor restrictions though.

And I can use these to restore a bootable OS, but only on the original hard
drive they were created from?

No. To any hard disk in any PC. But hardware differences (source vs. target
PC) might cause some boot problems (OS dependent).

It didn't work! Did I screw something up? I am going to try it again.

Please post the exact steps you have performed if you expect any help from
newsgroup.

I just looked at True Image. Even the description on the web page is 10x
more user friendly than Ghost. Crap. I already bought Ghost!
I've been cursing it ever since ...

Don't give up, Ghost is faster, more efficient and feature rich than TI.
Just user interface and its learning curve are much more demanding.

 

[Will Dormann]

failure. It would still be interesting for me to know what is the technical
difference between the clone and the image if both would result in a
bootable restore.

If you clone the drive, you can remove your original drive, replace it
with the clone, and it'll be just like when you cloned it.

If you image the drive, you can boot with your rescue media, restore the
image to the original drive, and it'll be just like when you imaged it.

An image is just a file or files on your backup drive's filesystem. If
you wanted to have multiple images for multiple dates or configurations
all on that one backup drive, that's fine. You can't do that with a clone.

And I can use these to restore a bootable OS, but only on the original hard
drive they were created from?

On any hard drive. As long as it has sufficient space. Have you read
any of the documentation?

It didn't work! Did I screw something up? I am going to try it again.

As they say, an untested backup is no backup.

I just looked at True Image. Even the description on the web page is 10x
more user friendly than Ghost. Crap. I already bought Ghost!
I've been cursing it ever since ...

True Image is a piece of cake to use. The price is reasonable and is
well worth it.


-WD

 

[Neil Maxwell]

Don't give up, Ghost is faster, more efficient and feature rich than TI.
Just user interface and its learning curve are much more demanding.

I recently tried Ghost, even though I've had good success with TI7,
and it worked on some obscure older hardware that TI7 didn't.
However, when I tried it on the laptops that have been so easy to
clone with TI7, it refused to reboot, with a "missing operating
system" type error. Oh, crud!

I was able to recover by going to the Symantec site and downloading
multiple files (per their FAQ) on another system, copying them to
floppies and booting to a regular boot disk until I found the one that
worked, but it was an ugly experience. If it had been my only system
or if I'd been off the 'net, I'd have been screwed.

I've had a few systems that TI7 didn't work on, but it didn't change
anything on them. It only failed to recognize the drivers for the
disk subsystem; a regular reboot had everything back to normal. I've
decided that anything that changes my boot record and wants to record
"signatures" on my hard disks is not something I want for emergency
recovery.

I'm sure Ghost can work fine in most situations, but it sure is a lot
more trouble to use than TI7. The last thing I need right now is more
picky, tricky, prima donna software that makes me jump through hoops.

 

[Peter]

I completely agree with you on ease of use of TI vs. Ghost.
Actually from the Ghost package I only use ghost.exe. The rest is ....
But after I made ghost to work properly, I was much more pleased with its
results than TI.

 

[Timothy Daniels]

An image is just a file or files on your backup drive's filesystem. If
you wanted to have multiple images for multiple dates or configurations
all on that one backup drive, that's fine. You can't do that with a clone.

That is generally true unless you do some very trivial adjustments
to the boot.ini files and by marking the desired partition "active" using
Disk Management (in WinXP). With these adjustments, you can put
up to 4 complete clone systems on a HD and boot any one of them.

*TimDaniels*

 

[Will Dormann]

That is generally true unless you do some very trivial adjustments
to the boot.ini files and by marking the desired partition "active" using
Disk Management (in WinXP). With these adjustments, you can put
up to 4 complete clone systems on a HD and boot any one of them.

With careful partitioning, yes, that's possible.
The point I was getting at is that with imaging, you can go ahead and
fill the drive up with images until the backup drive is full if you
like. With cloning, that's not quite possible.

Which method you choose depends on what your usage patterns and backup
needs are.


-WD

 

[Timothy Daniels]

With careful partitioning, yes, that's possible.
The point I was getting at is that with imaging, you can go ahead and
fill the drive up with images until the backup drive is full if you
like. With cloning, that's not quite possible.

Yup (I think). The only care in partitioning that I do is to make
sure I have enough room left to put the new clone. And from time to
time, I delete the oldest clone, and use Partition Magic to move
the remaining clones into the free'd up space. To reduce the amount
of clone that I have to transfer, I use Partition Magic to shrink the
size of the system-to-be-cloned partition down so that there's only
8 gigs of free space within it. That way, if I have to boot to that clone
in a hurry, it will still have enough free space to function well, but the
whole HD space doesn't have to be transfered when cloning it.
Having 2 HDs is a great convenience for backups, and it's a great
reassurance to know that you don't have to rebuild a system if a HD
goes belly up - you just boot to the other HD.

*TimDaniels*

 

[MissLivvy]

If you image the drive, you can boot with your rescue media, restore the
image to the original drive, and it'll be just like when you imaged it.

OK, so I think I get it now. If I make a clone, it's a mirror of what I
have on my drive. If I make an image file, I need ghost.exe to translate it
back to what I originally imaged.

 

[MissLivvy]

Please post the exact steps you have performed if you expect any help from
newsgroup.

1. I created a bootable disk (PC-DOS) using ghost on my PC. I tested to make
sure the PC would boot from the disk and it did.
2. I used Nero 5 to burn a bootable CD from the floppy. (The laptop I wish
to clone with Ghost does not have a floppy drive).
3. Set the boot order on the laptop to boot first from CD ROM drive.
4. Insert CD into laptop and reboot it.

It skipped booting from the CD and booted Windows. I am not sure what if
anything, I did wrong in Nero. I followed the instructions in their help
file to create a bootable CD, and left all of the options defaulted. I
looked at the files on the CD image, and they looked identical to what was
on the floppy.

 

[Peter]

How exactly did you perform Step (2.)?
It seems that you are new to this process.
Make sure you created "CD-ROM (Boot)" and NOT "CD-ROM (ISO)".
On menu Boot tab select "A:\" as your "Bootable logical drive" while your
bootable Ghost floppy was there.

 

[MissLivvy]

Peter, yes I definately selected CD-ROM (Boot) with A:\ as the bootable
drive. I even tried it again ....

 

[MissLivvy]

OK I think I figured out what I did wrong but I'm not sure why this was
wrong. I selected CD-ROM (Boot), and then after that I moved the files from
A:\ into the new CD using the file explorer. I did it again and this time
w/o explicity selecting the files from A:\ and it worked. I'm now cloning my
disk to my external hard drive which is very scary since I can see how if
one made a mistake they could blow their hard drive away...

 

[Peter]

I'm glad to see that you are making a progress.
Yes, the best is to experiment on a test machine first, but not everyone has
that oportunity.
If you are unsure about results, ask group first.