No display on fist start only and spontaneous reboots

[Justin Case]

Just started a 4 or 5 days ago.
When first turned on, pc will boot but display wont initialize.
It will then start normally after a shutdown with power button.

I blew out the dust out of the case and heat sinks (wasn't all that
bad in there), took out/reseated video card & memory and still does
it. Also reboots, sometime within a few minutes of starting other time
it'll go hours before it does it or not at all. Today, it restarted
and I got a no-system disk error message from bios.

Temps are normal as are voltages, according to abits utility.
Nothing in the system is more than (I think) 8 months old. I'm
suspecting the power supply but it's only about 3 months old. I seem
to go through two or three power supplies a year. which pisses me off.
Anyone else see them go so frequently??


what's in the box:
Antec p180 case (has good airflow through case)
Abit aa8xe intel 925 chipset
3 gig. /800 fsb intel p4
bfgtech (?) geforce 6800 gt
2 sata hard drives
16x dvdr
something x cdr
512 x ram.
antec 500w power supply.
no usb devices attached

 

[Robbie McFerren]

Just started a 4 or 5 days ago.
When first turned on, pc will boot but display wont initialize.
It will then start normally after a shutdown with power button.

I blew out the dust out of the case and heat sinks (wasn't all that
bad in there), took out/reseated video card & memory and still does
it. Also reboots, sometime within a few minutes of starting other time
it'll go hours before it does it or not at all. Today, it restarted
and I got a no-system disk error message from bios.

Temps are normal as are voltages, according to abits utility.
Nothing in the system is more than (I think) 8 months old. I'm
suspecting the power supply but it's only about 3 months old. I seem
to go through two or three power supplies a year. which pisses me off.
Anyone else see them go so frequently??


what's in the box:
Antec p180 case (has good airflow through case)
Abit aa8xe intel 925 chipset
3 gig. /800 fsb intel p4
bfgtech (?) geforce 6800 gt
2 sata hard drives
16x dvdr
something x cdr
512 x ram.
antec 500w power supply.
no usb devices attached

Check your Caps (capacitors) some motherboards ship with bad caps to
this day. I mean check all the caps (even though Antec didn't have this
problem check the ones in the PSU also). Any cap that can be accessed
with a screwdriver. Note this only applies to the electrolyte caps. If
you don't know what to check for, look for bulging, burn marks (could
have even had a small unnoticeable fire) As far as your power supplies
dieing off so frequently, check your AC power. I have heard of (read
APC) ups units put out very shitty power (to the point of data loss), so
don't think your AC power is immune because of a UPS surge unit ETC. If
your good Power supplies have history of going bad then you may want to
either replace it again (the way you describe it you should have at
least two on hand if you're smart) or if you have access to an
oscilloscope check the waveforms on the power rails (don't do this on
the AC line unless you can safely go to a 170 volt peak (assuming USA
because of Crapcast address).

 

[w_tom]

If your voltages are OK, then your power supply is OK. But you are
measuring voltages with a monitor. The monitor can detect voltage
changes but must first be calibrated with a multimeter to measure
actual voltage. Furthermore, what is an OK voltage? 5 volts should
measure 4.87 or higher. Some don't understand and consider 4.75 to be
sufficient. You should be providing numbers - not subjective claims
such as voltage OK.

But again, if voltage is OK, then power supply is OK. If it is an
Antec, then it would contain other necessary functions.

Blowing out dust is not very useful. In fact, heat is how we find
failures - a diagnostic tool. Too many will see failure during higher
temperatures, and then fix the symptoms with more fans. Use heat as a
diagnostic tool to find a component that should also work just fine
when room temperatures are greater than 100 degree F - a room
temperature that all computers should work just fine in even with only
one chassis fan.

Electrolytic capacitor problems would be one potential reason for
failure. But this type failure can be ongoing even before a capacitor
swells up and becomes visually defective.

Meanwhile, what do comprehensive diagnostics report? The
manufacturer should have provided comprehensive hardware diagnostics to
confirm every board and peripheral problem - all executed without any
complications from Windows. If not, then you must download and execute
the diagnostics for each component from each individual hardware
manufacturer. Diagnostics also report more useful information when the
hardware is in a hot room OR is heated by a hairdryer set on highest
temperature. Yes, any part inside a computer should work just fine
even when so hot as to be uncomfortable to touch. If in doubt, read
each manufacturer's spec.

This type testing is especially quite useful in discovering bad
memory - both DRAMs and other memory in IC on the motherboard. This
also includes another component that can act badly when heated - video
controller.

What did the system (event) log from Windows NT (and that included
XP) report? This log will contain information about hardware problems
- the system adjusts accordingly, records the problem, and keeps
working so that you will fix problems later.

Above are some of the first things one does to ID problems long
before replacing any parts.

Meanwhile, what failed in those previous power supplies? A dead
body (if it really is a dead body) is best evidence. To find a
suspect, often the dead body provides the most useful evidence. What
inside the power supply has failed? Or were you just replacing power
supplies on a hope that would fix some other problem? Maybe the
problem was always on motherboard in the power supply controller? But
again, a multimeter would have gone a long way to identifying that
problem long before considering a power supply swap. This power supply
swap might even make temporary fix of a defective power connector. Are
all power connectors attached and does each pin fully seat?

Anything the APC was going to accomplish was already inside the power
supply. A typical APC UPS would provide 'dirty' electricity when in
battery backup mode. Otherwise it connects power supply directly to AC
mains for cleaner power. All of which is made irrelevant due to how a
'minimally acceptable' power supply is constructed.

Just a list of things to test for, information to provide, and
numbers that should be posted with any request for help. Numbers being
far more useful than simply declaring something OK. Numbers from the
motherboard monitor are not useful until that monitor is calibrated
with a 3.5 digit multimeter.

 

[Dave]

Just started a 4 or 5 days ago.
When first turned on, pc will boot but display wont initialize.
It will then start normally after a shutdown with power button.

I blew out the dust out of the case and heat sinks (wasn't all that
bad in there), took out/reseated video card & memory and still does
it. Also reboots, sometime within a few minutes of starting other time
it'll go hours before it does it or not at all. Today, it restarted
and I got a no-system disk error message from bios.

Temps are normal as are voltages, according to abits utility.
Nothing in the system is more than (I think) 8 months old. I'm
suspecting the power supply but it's only about 3 months old. I seem
to go through two or three power supplies a year. which pisses me off.
Anyone else see them go so frequently??


what's in the box:
Antec p180 case (has good airflow through case)
Abit aa8xe intel 925 chipset
3 gig. /800 fsb intel p4
bfgtech (?) geforce 6800 gt
2 sata hard drives
16x dvdr
something x cdr
512 x ram.
antec 500w power supply.
no usb devices attached

Sounds very suspiciously like a weak power supply, even if it's a good brand
and 3 months old. -Dave

 

[jcase]

I took the PS from another PC in the house and yes, it boots normaly
everytime I've tried.
It funny that the other two pc's I have have never had the PS go bad.
With the problem machine though It hasn't always been the same
motherboard & video card when the PS has died.
The two cd drives weren't the ones I had when the last one died either.
Thanks for the repiles....

 

[w_tom]

A problematic power supply can make marginal motherboard or video
card appear bad. Just another reason why we take but two minutes with
a multimeter to find a power supply problem before fixing anything.
Was it the power supply or are electrolytics on that motherboard slowly
failing? Either way, a power supply swap would make the system work.
But have you fix the problem or only cured a 'slowly getting worse'
failure. Again, two minutes to get numbers with the meter is about
finding the problem and fixing it the first time.

A common problem among clones is power supplies that are missing
essential functions that were standard even 30 years ago. Then when a
power supply fails, the human will either blame things that should have
been irrelevant (brownouts, blackouts, trivial surges), or will accept
failure as normal. Even worse is a power supply missing so many
essential functions as to damage motherboard and video card. This is
why better supplies have a long list of numerical specs. Numbers you
may not even understand. If that supply did not provide essential
functions, then a less than 1% who understand those numbers can legally
or publicly condemn that company. To sell power supplies that are
missing essential functions, they must 'forget' to provide a long and
written list of numerical specs.

Just one way to avoid 'intentionally defective by design' power
supplies.