New PCI card on old motherboard

[Grumble]

Hello all,

I've (finally) hopped on the Wi-Fi bandwagon, and bought, among other
gear, a pair of PCI 802.11g network adapters.

Problem is, the PCI card is properly detected on my recent motherboard
(2001 ASUS A7V133-C SocketA) but *NOT* on my older motherboard (1997
ASUS P/I-P55T2P4 Socket7).

I've tried 3 different PCI slots, removed all ISA cards, increased the
PCI bus latency (whatever that does)... Still the card does not show up
in the BIOS summary (right before the OS boots). I've loaded Knoppix,
and, unsurprisingly, lspci does not see the adapter either (I thought
Linux might perform initialization which the BIOS forgot).

Is it possible that recent PCI cards DO NOT WORK plain and simple in
older motherboards? Isn't there some kind of backward compatibility?

P.S. why is the old Socket7 called Socket7? It's not like the CPU only
has 7 pins, right?

 

[keith]

Hello all,

I've (finally) hopped on the Wi-Fi bandwagon, and bought, among other
gear, a pair of PCI 802.11g network adapters.

Nice. ...haven't gone there yet. I opened up the walls and ran a CAT-5
and RG6 to my "office" (there are advantages to having the kid move out
;-).

Problem is, the PCI card is properly detected on my recent motherboard
(2001 ASUS A7V133-C SocketA) but *NOT* on my older motherboard (1997
ASUS P/I-P55T2P4 Socket7).
Oops.

I've tried 3 different PCI slots, removed all ISA cards, increased the
PCI bus latency (whatever that does)...

The PCI bus latence timer has nothing to do with the congiguration phase.
Basically, the PCI latency timer is the *minimum* time-slot (in PCI
cocks) that a device is alowed to "hog" the bus. Once the bus has been
granted (GNT# active) to a device the timer starts. If the bus arbiter
then decides to grant access to another device (GNT# de-asserted) the
first device does *not* have to give up the bus until the latency timer
goes to zero. If it's already zero it must immediately fork over access
to the bus.

It's not your problem (though you went the wrong way with it ;-).

Still the card does not show up
in the BIOS summary (right before the OS boots). I've loaded Knoppix,
and, unsurprisingly, lspci does not see the adapter either (I thought
Linux might perform initialization which the BIOS forgot).

Have you seen this with any other cards? What chipset (Northbridge)?

Is it possible that recent PCI cards DO NOT WORK plain and simple in
older motherboards? Isn't there some kind of backward compatibility?

It's certainly possible.

<straw_grasping_mode>
Is it a "universal" PCI card or is it a 5V card. It's possible it's
intended for 3.3V PCI?

P.S. why is the old Socket7 called Socket7? It's not like the CPU only
has 7 pins, right?

....umm because it came after Socket-6 (PPro), Socket-5 (early Pentia -
single supply), Socket-4 (486)? ;-)

 

[George Macdonald]

Hello all,

I've (finally) hopped on the Wi-Fi bandwagon, and bought, among other
gear, a pair of PCI 802.11g network adapters.

Problem is, the PCI card is properly detected on my recent motherboard
(2001 ASUS A7V133-C SocketA) but *NOT* on my older motherboard (1997
ASUS P/I-P55T2P4 Socket7).

Ah the famous P55T2P4. Are you running standard clocking and have you
checked your BIOS to make sure it's the last one issued?

I've tried 3 different PCI slots, removed all ISA cards, increased the
PCI bus latency (whatever that does)... Still the card does not show up
in the BIOS summary (right before the OS boots). I've loaded Knoppix,
and, unsurprisingly, lspci does not see the adapter either (I thought
Linux might perform initialization which the BIOS forgot).

Sometimes cards just don't/didn't show in the BIOS summary list - no idea
why. Do you have PnP OS enabled in the BIOS Setup? That could prevent the
BIOS from do a full enumeration of PnP... i.e. leaving it to the OS to
figure out. I don't recall if the P55T2P4 BIOS had a "Reset Configuration"
or "Clear NVRAM" option - worth a try if it does. Also try disabling
something, like COM2 to make sure an IRQ is free.

Is it possible that recent PCI cards DO NOT WORK plain and simple in
older motherboards? Isn't there some kind of backward compatibility?

PnP was kinda half-baked back then, with the P55T2P4. I recall having
monumental "quarrels" with it, on some mbrds, where it would not release
resources back after they'd been assigned to a card which had subsequently
been removed. In one case I had to remove everything and boot it with a
bare config... to "give it a jolt"... and then put things back in an order
which got the dissenting card recognized before others.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

 

[Ed]

Is it possible that recent PCI cards DO NOT WORK plain and simple in
older motherboards? Isn't there some kind of backward compatibility?

IOW if setting the IRQ manually in the BIOS for the slot the card is in
to an IRQ that is not already in use/shared by other devices might help?

Ed

 

[RusH]

I've (finally) hopped on the Wi-Fi bandwagon, and bought, among

other gear, a pair of PCI 802.11g network adapters.

Problem is, the PCI card is properly detected on my recent
motherboard (2001 ASUS A7V133-C SocketA) but *NOT* on my older
motherboard (1997 ASUS P/I-P55T2P4 Socket7).

lack of PCI 2.1 or something, it wont work


Pozdrawiam.

 

[nobody]

....snip...

...umm because it came after Socket-6 (PPro), Socket-5 (early Pentia -
single supply), Socket-4 (486)? ;-)

IIRC, Socket4 was for bigger, 5V Pentium 60/66 - the ones with
(in)famous FDIV bug.
486 used Socket3

 

[keith]

...snip...
IIRC, Socket4 was for bigger, 5V Pentium 60/66 - the ones with
(in)famous FDIV bug.
486 used Socket3

You're probably right. When one gets old... ;-)

 

[keith]

IOW if setting the IRQ manually in the BIOS for the slot the card is in
to an IRQ that is not already in use/shared by other devices might help?

Were it junt an IRQ issue, the card would still show up in the
configuration.

 

[keith]

lack of PCI 2.1 or something, it wont work

The differences between 2.0, 2.1, and 2.2 are rather trivial. There's
nothing in there that would cause your problems.

 

[RusH]

The differences between 2.0, 2.1, and 2.2 are rather trivial.
There's nothing in there that would cause your problems.

not my problems and those trivial differences make day and night
when it comes to wifi cards. I work as WISP consultant, its a common
problem. Just like USB2 cards - they dont work in Pentium 1
motherboards.


Pozdrawiam.

 

[Grumble]

not my problems and those trivial differences make day and night
when it comes to wifi cards. I work as WISP consultant, its a common
problem. Just like USB2 cards - they dont work in Pentium 1
motherboards.

The card I tested was an MSI PC54G2:
http://www.msi.com.tw/program/products/communication/cmu/pro_cmu_detail.php?UID=584
http://www.msicomputer.com/product/p_spec.asp?model=PC54G2

NOTE: It was the cheapest I could find ;-)

Do you think I'll have problems with every PCI 802.11g card,
or is there one that might work with the P55T2P4?

 

[RusH]

NOTE: It was the cheapest I could find ;-)

there are like 5 makers on the Taiwan, the rest of the band are just
sticker monkeys, no mater what you buy, you will end up with
Globalsuntech or one of other OEMs

Do you think I'll have problems with every PCI 802.11g card,
or is there one that might work with the P55T2P4?

the cheapest AP goes for 30$, G starts at 50$ I think. Linksys WAP54G
is ok for the price, very stable + you can make your custom firmware
(mips running Linux).

Pozdrawiam.

 

[vvv]

Yes.. the problem is PCI version incompability...

PCI wifi cards need PCI 2.2 or newer.

And those older boards are only PCI 2.1 compliant.

How do I know? I had the same problem with my BX chipset motherboard with a
PCI wireless card.

 

[keith]

not my problems

Oops! ;-)

and those trivial differences make day and night
when it comes to wifi cards. I work as WISP consultant, its a common
problem. Just like USB2 cards - they dont work in Pentium 1
motherboards.

The differences between these PCI levels have nothing to do with the
configuration cycles. I don't remember all of them (My fourth edition
Shanley and Anderson is at work), but some were things like cachable
memory allowed in 2.0, discourraged in 2.1, and forbidden in 2.2. I'd
have to look up the complete list.

BTW, P5 motherboards didn't like USB1.x either. ;-)

 

[keith]

Oops! ;-)


The differences between these PCI levels have nothing to do with the
configuration cycles. I don't remember all of them (My fourth edition
Shanley and Anderson is at work), but some were things like cachable
memory allowed in 2.0, discourraged in 2.1, and forbidden in 2.2. I'd
have to look up the complete list.

Hmm, after a quick web search, it appears there is a problem with some
WiFi (Netgear in particular) and other than PCI 2.2. Indeed Netgear
specifies a PCI 2.2 compliant system for the WG311.

Now I'm curious. What is the issue (I've never seen a real difference
before)? I'll have to read up on the differences between PCI 2.1 and 2.2
tomorrow.

 

[Grumble]

Have you seen this with any other cards?

The PCI graphics card in my system, an old Diamond Monster Fusion with
a 3dfx Voodoo Banshee chipset, works flawlessly.

What chipset (Northbridge)?

The P/I-P55T2P4 came with an Intel 430HX chipset, aka Triton 2:

http://www.asus.com.tw/support/english/techref/430hx/index.aspx

I found this page on Intel's site which lists the 430HX *ONLY* as PCI
2.1 compliant, where newer chipsets are PCI 2.2 compliant:

http://intel.com/design/chipsets/embedded/

That sounds like bad news for my wireless aspirations, no?

<straw_grasping_mode> Is it a "universal" PCI card or is it a 5V
card. It's possible it's intended for 3.3V PCI?
<straw_grasping_mode/>

The data sheet states:
Form Fator 32-bit PCI v2.2
Operation Voltage 3.3V

Would my motherboard support 3.3V or 5V?

 

[keith]

The PCI graphics card in my system, an old Diamond Monster Fusion with
a 3dfx Voodoo Banshee chipset, works flawlessly.


The P/I-P55T2P4 came with an Intel 430HX chipset, aka Triton 2:

http://www.asus.com.tw/support/english/techref/430hx/index.aspx

Couldn't remember what chipset that model had. ...should have, since it
was a goodie, in its day.

I found this page on Intel's site which lists the 430HX *ONLY* as PCI
2.1 compliant, where newer chipsets are PCI 2.2 compliant:

http://intel.com/design/chipsets/embedded/

That sounds like bad news for my wireless aspirations, no?
Sounds.


The data sheet states:
Form Fator 32-bit PCI v2.2
Operation Voltage 3.3V

Would my motherboard support 3.3V or 5V?

The HX was 5V PCI only. That may be the issue right there. Though a
3.3V only card should not fit in a 5V PCI slot. A 3.3V card has a keyway
in positions 12 and 13 (5V has these grounded) and a 5V card has a keyway
in positions 30 and 31 (3.3V card has these grounded). A "universal" card
would have a keyway in both positions. Position 1 is at the rear of the
case, so if you look at the slots in your T2P4 the key should be towards
the front of the case (5V slot). Where are the keyways on the card?

Keith

 

[RusH]

BTW, P5 motherboards didn't like USB1.x either. ;-)

P5 as this particular Asus or did you mean socket7 ?
I never saw socket 7 board refusing to work with USB 1.1 PCI card
(including HX).

Pozdrawiam.

 

[Grumble]

Ah the famous P55T2P4. Are you running standard clocking and have
you checked your BIOS to make sure it's the last one issued?

I picked "LOAD BIOS DEFAULTS" in the BIOS, which I believe is even more
conservative than "LOAD SETUP DEFAULTS". The BIOS has the most recent
firmware version available (v0207).

http://www.asus.com.tw/support/download/item.aspx?ModelName=P/I-P55T2P4

Sometimes cards just don't/didn't show in the BIOS summary list - no
idea why. Do you have PnP OS enabled in the BIOS Setup? That could
prevent the BIOS from do a full enumeration of PnP... i.e. leaving it
to the OS to figure out. I don't recall if the P55T2P4 BIOS had a
"Reset Configuration" or "Clear NVRAM" option - worth a try if it
does. Also try disabling something, like COM2 to make sure an IRQ is
free.

PnP OS is set to 'No' (I'll try 'Yes' to see what difference it makes).
Thanks for your suggestions. Unfortunately, they didn't seem to do the
trick. I think the motherboard just won't take any PCI 2.2 cards :-(

 

[RusH]

Now I'm curious. What is the issue (I've never seen a real
difference before)? I'll have to read up on the differences
between PCI 2.1 and 2.2 tomorrow.

http://www.pcisig.com/specifications/conventional/conventional_pci/2_
2sum1215.pdf

The fact is even those wifi card that are specified to work in 2.1/2.2
PCI have problems with 2.1.

Pozdrawiam.