New, Non-Cosmetic Features In Vista -- Ten Good Reasons To Upgrade

[Jeffrey S. Sparks]

What you consider cosmetic and what others consider substantive can be two
different things. If you don't use the features they upgraded or added and
others do, who is going to consider this a substantive upgrade.

Jeff

 

[Justin]

If you're talking about averages, I think you're both wrong. Gas in the
USA runs around $2.50 a gallon.

How do you figure? $2.50 isn't far from $2.41 anyway. At least I provided
backup with a link.

http://www.fuelgaugereport.com:80/

Today it's up to $2.433. I used regular to prove without any doubt that the
average commuter can not spend $40 a month on gas.

Assuming that the average car (not a Hummer) gets around 25 miles to the
gallon.

You say 25, I said 28. At least I was giving a little onto his side. Just
to prove without any doubt that the average commuter can not spend $40 a
month on gas.

, it takes $.10 worth of gas to drive a mile. The average driver drives
around 12,000 miles a year. That's $1,200, or $100 a month.

That's fine, but you fail to address his quote of $40 a month and apply it
to the fact that he claims to be a commuter.

Either way, with the direct upgrade from XP Home being $99, you further
prove my point. If you can afford more "Vista" in your Vista then great!

I posted this question on a forum. So far, only one response:

Statement - It's easy for a COMMUTER to spends $40 a month on gas. Please
respond.

First Reply -
really?
are they commuting to their fridge?

 

[Adam Albright]

Codswallop!

I have no obligation to Prove A Negative.

I was asking for you to list features you say are missing from Vista.

Can't do it?

Apparently not. So in my view you when from a amusing poster, to an
annoying one and now to just a garden variety troll.

Still sort of amusing though. <wink>

 

[Justin]

Twaddle!

1. My screen doesn't tear as it is, with XP.

While I don't believe you. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen. It's a
major problem with XP.

2. I have yet to see why Vista's "Instant Search" is such a Great
Improvement over XP.

Um...your bad.

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

How do you figure?

As I said, I used round numbers to make the arithmetic easy, not precise
ones. My use of round numbers doesn't significantly change the conclusion

$2.50 isn't far from $2.41 anyway.

Precision isn't necessary here, and anyway depends on where in the US you
are.

At least I
provided backup with a link.

http://www.fuelgaugereport.com:80/

Today it's up to $2.433. I used regular to prove without any doubt
that the average commuter can not spend $40 a month on gas.


You say 25, I said 28. At least I was giving a little onto his side.
Just to prove without any doubt that the average commuter can not
spend $40 a month on gas.

Did you read my message? I agree with that. I said a typical number is
around $100 a month.

That's fine, but you fail to address his quote of $40 a month and
apply it to the fact that he claims to be a commuter.

Of course I addressed it. I said "I think you're both wrong." In his case,
his $40 a month may be right for him, but it's far lower than the typical
$100 a month I calculated.

Your statement "For home, with Vista starting @ $99, it'll cost WAY LESS
then a months worth of gas" is a similar exaggeration in the opposite
direction. At $99, Vista is not "WAY LESS then a months worth of gas." It's
almost exactly a typical month's-worth of gas for most people.

 

[Justin]

depends on where in the US you are.

Not at all. An average is an average of everyone.

Of course I addressed it.

I still don't see where you addressed $40 is anywhere near "normal" for a
commuter. I have no doubt his $40 is correct. The "doubt" was him being a
commuter. My entire post was to disprove his commuter status. I don't see
where you disprove that at all.

I'm assuming though, that you read the rest of the thread???

Your statement "For home, with Vista starting @ $99, it'll cost WAY LESS
then a months worth of gas" is a similar exaggeration in the opposite
direction. At $99, Vista is not "WAY LESS then a months worth of gas."
It's almost exactly a typical month's-worth of gas for most people.

Hey now! A dollar is a lot of money! I can have a lot of fun waving that
dollar around!

You're 12,000 mile average does not conform to "commuters". However, that
address two different posts.

Personally, I spend $380-$420 a month on gas. 22MPG

 

[Richard]

People have provided you with a host of examples which you are writing off
as "fluff, smoke & mirrors".
Go back & re-read the thread.

Here's one for you:

Full disk image backup, not available in any version of XP out of the box.

 

[D. Spencer Hines]

I have an allegedly much better product already...

True Image Home 10, build 4940.

Why should I junk that fine piece of software and move to Vista in order to
use what is ostensibly an inferior Full Disk Image Backup program?

DSH

 

[Justin]

See Richard, no sense at all. He picks ONE of the 20+ things he's been
given to make his conclusion.

There's no point.

 

[Lang Murphy]

"Roger that" on all points.

Lang

It also completely takes care of all screen tearing issues. No benefit my
rear!



Well, maybe! After all Vista is just XP with a new theme.....or something
like that, according to all the linux freaks.



Of course not



You can't expect these people to stay within the "scope" of a
conversation. They rely on pulling info from anywhere in order to make a
point.

Some people still believe that XP has the same exact instant search
feature as Vista.

 

[Richard]

You didn't get True Image with XP it's 3rd party software, and no one said
you had to junk it!
Point is that Vista Business & Ultimate have an image application installed
out of the box & XP doesn't.
That's one improvement over XP.

You asked for instances of "NEW FUNCTIONALITY absent in XP Pro SP2 & this is
one of them.

 

[Richard]

Yeah, I've drawn the conclusion this guy is just a troll.

 

[D. Spencer Hines]

Horse Manure!
-------------------------------------------------

Simple Logic 101:

1. If we already HAVE True Image Home 10.0, which is allegedly a FAR
superior program to the one in Vista, the added functionality in XP creates
NO NEW VALUE Added for the customer.

2. DO learn some Basic Free Market Economic Analysis.

3. If Microsoft is going to continue coming up with new CRIPPLEWARE to
insert into its Operating Systems it will NOT be creating NEW VALUE ADDED
for its customer base.

4. Microsoft has to do BETTER than the Third-Party manufacturers and
COMPETE with them -- OR leave those capabilities OUT of the OS,
concomitantly LOWER the price to the consumer and work out DEALS and
cooperative arrangements with those superior Third-Party manufacturers that
will give customers Good Value Added -- and TELL customers about them -- in
concert with the Third Parties.

DSH

Lux et Veritas et Libertas

You didn't get True Image with XP it's 3rd party software, and no one said
you had to junk it!

 

[Richard]

That wasn't the question you asked & you know it.
So you expect people to compare Vista against XP with the best 3rd party
software?
Stupid.

 

[D. Spencer Hines]

This fellow is REALLY Ignorant.

Probably one of the scruffy little PFK's I was previously referring to.

He understands Zip Point Zero about Smart Marketing, Value Added & Free
Market Economics.

He's also too cowardly to use his complete name.

He wouldn't want his employer and/or college of choice to do a Google Search
on him.

DSH
--------------------------------------------

 

[Richard]

But at least I'm not mentally ill as you clearly are.

 

[Lang Murphy]

Well... I beg to differ. The list I posted is not a list of cosmetic
changes. You insult my efforts by dismissing them out of hand. It makes one
think that you are possibly just casting aspersions on Vista because you
have no intention of acknowledging any pro-Vista responses to your posts.

Lang

No Sale.

All we have seen are lists of toy improvements, plus fluff, smoke and
mirrors.

New, Non-Cosmetic, SUBSTANTIVE Improvements that add NEW FUNCTIONALITY
absent in XP Pro SP2.

That's what we need to see.

DSH

 

[invader]

You responded to my top-10 list, so I shall respond to yours!

1. UI now drawn by DirectX

Why is this a good thing? It's far more complicated and it's not clear to me
that non-3D applications require or desire directX.

2. Better security (perfect? naw... better? mayhaps...)

Definitely "more security", but not necessarily better security.

3. Better search

Okay, fair enough. It has a desktop search, and this is useful. Doesn't
google give this away for free?

4. Bitlocker

Only included in Ultimate Edition, which was a poor decision. Business
edition should have included BitLocker because it's a business feature. I
understand (from wiki) that it features a "recovery key" ???? Sounds bad.
I've been able to set up encrypted file systems in Linux for years, plus I
get to choose the encryption algorithm and the file system to use (and I
don't have to buy Linux "Ultimate Edition" either)

5. Better help system/content

They killed WinHelp (.hlp) files, making help files in legacy apps
unavailable. A step backward due to the rush to get the OS out on time.

6. WinPE 2.0 (based on Vista) allows hot plug n' play of USB devices (among
other improvements over previous versions of PE)

Not clear the average user has any need for this, and again they're playing
catch-up with Linux.

7. Windows Easy Transfer

If it works right... otherwise its not so easy.

8. Windows Sync and Sharing

So they included ActiveSync with the OS and generalized it a bit. Again, I'm
not so sure how much need the average user has for this. I do agree that it's
better than every device including its own sync program, but I bet many still
will in order to get custom features.

9. Full System Backup (lame compared to third party apps... yet, still, a
new, and some might say, valuable addition)

It looks like another feature that didn't get quite finished. Why not get it
right and make it competitive with other backup software?

10. Parental controls

Admittedly, this is a good idea, although I don't believe in the
effectiveness of web filters -- the kids will in time find a way to get
around them.

11. New media tools like DVD maker, etc.

Does that make up for Windows Upgrade Advisor telling me that my Nero 7 is no
longer compatible and needed to be uninstalled before upgrading to Vista?
Breaking my Nero so they can "bundle" their own burning software sounds like
another antitrust violation.

You missed one -- shadow copies, a feature that I think some users will
benefit from (assuming its not implemented in a totally bonehead manner that
excessively wastes disk space)

 

[Jeffrey S. Sparks]

You responded to my top-10 list, so I shall respond to yours!


Why is this a good thing? It's far more complicated and it's not clear to
me
that non-3D applications require or desire directX.

In XP the desktop was rendered using your cpu where in Vista it's rendered
with your GPU thus relieving your CPU for other tasks. The new driver model
(when using Aero) also removes negative effects such as tearing.

Okay, fair enough. It has a desktop search, and this is useful. Doesn't
google give this away for free?

The search feature built into vista hasn't realized it's full potential yet.
Once they release the new version of windows server, vista will be able to
search for a document anywhere on the network. (from what i understand
anyways, will be cool to see it in action) Does this help the everyday home
user? Maybe, maybe not. Depends on if you store a lot of documents on your
computer and how much you use it for business. If you just play games, surf
the web and use email it probably is not that big of a deal. If you use it
for business though...

Only included in Ultimate Edition, which was a poor decision. Business
edition should have included BitLocker because it's a business feature. I
understand (from wiki) that it features a "recovery key" ???? Sounds bad.
I've been able to set up encrypted file systems in Linux for years, plus I
get to choose the encryption algorithm and the file system to use (and I
don't have to buy Linux "Ultimate Edition" either)

I agree, it should have been included in business, not just enterprise and
ultimate editions. Windows has had EFS for a while now, however, this is
the first "total drive" encryption. The recovery key is in case you are not
using a laptop with a TPM 1.2 module built in. This allows you to save a
recovery key to decrypt the drive on either a spare USB key, on paper or
into active directory if you are a member of a domain. Using the key
immediately decrypts the HD and then you must re-enable bitlocker. Kind of
like on most websites if you lose your password they make you reset it...

They killed WinHelp (.hlp) files, making help files in legacy apps
unavailable. A step backward due to the rush to get the OS out on time.


Not clear the average user has any need for this, and again they're
playing
catch-up with Linux.

WinPE is the "install" version of windows. Its only running during install.
This allows you to use USB keys to store drivers on when installing windows.
In XP you had to use a floppy drive. (Nice feature because I don't even
have a floppy drive anymore and don't want to bother with one just for
installing vista) Is this a feature users at home would use? Maybe not
right away, but down the road if they have to have drivers loaded during
install they would.

If it works right... otherwise its not so easy.


So they included ActiveSync with the OS and generalized it a bit. Again,
I'm
not so sure how much need the average user has for this. I do agree that
it's
better than every device including its own sync program, but I bet many
still
will in order to get custom features.

More and more people will use this as they buy cell phones with the need to
sync with their computer. (music, you name it, etc...)

It looks like another feature that didn't get quite finished. Why not get
it
right and make it competitive with other backup software?

I haven't played with it as I like Acronis for backup. At least they
updated it to an image type backup system.

Admittedly, this is a good idea, although I don't believe in the
effectiveness of web filters -- the kids will in time find a way to get
around them.

True, just like copy protection, people will eventually find a way around
it. I wonder if you can bypass it by going to one of those anonymous web
browsing portals?

Does that make up for Windows Upgrade Advisor telling me that my Nero 7 is
no
longer compatible and needed to be uninstalled before upgrading to Vista?
Breaking my Nero so they can "bundle" their own burning software sounds
like
another antitrust violation.

Nero now has a version that works with vista. The older nero liked to have
a lot of control over the system which with some programs could lead to
system instability. The new interface will help eliminate that.

 

[invader]

In XP the desktop was rendered using your cpu where in Vista it's rendered

with your GPU thus relieving your CPU for other tasks. The new driver model
(when using Aero) also removes negative effects such as tearing.

It's another self-fulfilling prophecy: the only reason why we need the GPU to
render the desktop is because we've decided to make the desktop use 3D
features, otherwise the CPU is sufficient. I can't think of a time when I had
an issue where my CPU was bogged down rendering the desktop, at least not
since Windows 3.1 using a non-accelerated standard VGA card.

Furthermore, just because we're using the GDI doesn't mean the GPU is doing
no work, does it? It's been a long time since I've done driver work on a
display adapter, but I seem to recall in the early 1990s we already had video
adapter support for hardware acceleration (hardware blit, hardware line draw,
etc). Does XP abandon this and draw everything manually?

The search feature built into vista hasn't realized it's full potential yet.
Once they release the new version of windows server, vista will be able to
search for a document anywhere on the network. (from what i understand

Oh great, so now it won't be content to index my documents without my
permission, but will now start sneaking out and molesting my network without
asking my permission? I hope not.

I agree, it should have been included in business, not just enterprise and
ultimate editions. Windows has had EFS for a while now, however, this is
the first "total drive" encryption. The recovery key is in case you are not
using a laptop with a TPM 1.2 module built in. This allows you to save a

So you are the only one who has the recovery key? This sounds reasonable. I
was afraid it was one of those "we'll keep your recovery key safely at
Microsoft HQ" situations. As long as you are the only one who can decrypt
your documents (no hidden backdoors, no help for users who lost their keys),
then I'm fine with it.

This allows you to use USB keys to store drivers on when installing

windows.

Okay, I can see the value in this as I hate having to drag out a floppy
drive. It's still not an earth-shattering new feature though, more like a
minor tweak. Plus, when I buy a new motherboard or video card or whatnot,
it's not going to come with a driver on USB, it'll come with one on CD or
floppy.

True, just like copy protection, people will eventually find a way around
it. I wonder if you can bypass it by going to one of those anonymous web
browsing portals?

One would hope the anonymous browsing portals are listed (or can be listed)
as banned sites. If I had kids, I would be concerned about them simply
sticking a bootable OS (Linux, etc) in the CD/DVD drive and surfing
unmonitored. It's exactly what I would have done had my PC been locked down
when I was a kid.

I think if you really want to lock down the PC, then you'll have to do it at
the router level (perhaps use one of the numerous encryption standards for
wireless, and then not give the key to the kids, so they can't get network
connectivity from a CD-bootable OS)

Nero now has a version that works with vista. The older nero liked to have
a lot of control over the system which with some programs could lead to
system instability. The new interface will help eliminate that.

I'll have to give it a shot.