new motherboard---forced to buy new copy of XP??!

G

Guest

Hi

My name is Jim and I live in Colorado Springs, CO. Recently I bought a new motherboard to upgrade my, long-in-the-tooth, e-machine computer. I did consider resealing Windows XP before changing the board but I decided not to since my copy of XP is the upgrade version (at least I assume it is, it was loaded on to the system by the oem, of course) and I thought this could lead to trouble. Besides, I felt I could always explore that option latter if needed

I did expect the system to protest and perhaps make me call Microsoft for a code but what happened instead came as a complete surprise. After changing the motherboard I first just tried to reboot the computer into the safe mode however Windows XP refused to do this. So I inserted the e-machine recovery disk into the CD-ROM player. I was surprised to see the exact same message; something to the affect that Windows could not boot into the safe mode and this problem could be the result of hardware issues caused by hardware issues

Well, I first called e-machine support and was told that since I did not send the computer to them to put in a new e-machine motherboard (I doubt if this is even an option on my system) that they could not offer me any support. I explained that all I wanted was a way to get to the Windows XP files [I tried to boot directly from the recovery disk, this works but you really have no where to go from this point. I first booted from the recovery disk and then tried to install Win 98 from a CD-ROM but received the dreaded “incorrect COMMAND.COM†message.]

I then called Microsoft and talked to a pleasant support specialist who gave me the number to get media copies. I have not called them yet (I work nights and they are closed by time I get home) but I will very soon of course. However I am very concerned that they will say that they cannot send me a copy of Windows XP since I DO have my copy from e-machine

You know I am a big fan of Microsoft. The people who argue that Microsoft has monopoly power in some of the market segments that they are in never bring up one very salient point. Microsoft makes GREAT products! This being said I have never cared for some of their policies concerning how many copies of the operating system an individual user (not a company or organized group of some kind but just an ordinary individual) has to buy. If I own five computers I still believe I should only have to buy one copy of the operating system, after all I cannot use all five computers at once. This goes hand in glove with my belief that Microsoft should go a little easier on the hobbyist user (who some might call a “power†user) since from the ranks of these hobbyists often emerge the new ideas that drive the industry. Also the hobbyist user will spend much more money on both hardware and software than just an ordinary user---why not give them a break?

Another aspect of this policy that disturbs me (especially with the strong enforcement mechanism built-in to Windows XP) is that it is a policy that basically represents a death sentence for the white-box computing business (what I mean by “white box industry†is all of the small computer stores that you see in strip-malls etc.). After all the logic of using components is declining in the face of ever falling PC prices and if you are going to be forced to buy a new operating system just because you changed the mother board in your computer obviously this is going to be an unworkable situation very rapidly. With a low end computer the price of the operating system alone can represent 20-25% of the cost

But getting back to the issue at hand, I just want to know if other people have had the same issue to contend with and what kind of outcome did they experience. Also do you agree with my premise that since I did buy Windows XP when I purchased my e-machine computer that I am entitled to have new copies of the disks (separate from what is locked up in my e-machine recovery disks) just as if I had bought a copy in the store and for some reason I needed some new media? I would also like to hear from anyone who disagrees with this premise

Thanks,
Jim

Please CC to (e-mail address removed)
 
C

Carey Frisch [MVP]

The preinstalled OEM Windows XP license that comes with a
manufacturer's computer is uniquely tied to the specific hardware
configuration of the computer. If you change the motherboard,
and it is a different model, the license is no longer valid.

If you wish to make significant hardware changes, then you'll
have to purchase a conventional "retail version" of Windows XP.

--
Carey Frisch
Microsoft MVP
Windows XP - Shell/User

Be Smart! Protect your PC!
http://www.microsoft.com/security/protect/

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


| Hi!
|
| My name is Jim and I live in Colorado Springs, CO. Recently I bought a new motherboard to upgrade my,
long-in-the-tooth, e-machine computer. I did consider resealing Windows XP before changing the board but I
decided not to since my copy of XP is the upgrade version (at least I assume it is, it was loaded on to the
system by the oem, of course) and I thought this could lead to trouble. Besides, I felt I could always
explore that option latter if needed.
|
| I did expect the system to protest and perhaps make me call Microsoft for a code but what happened instead
came as a complete surprise. After changing the motherboard I first just tried to reboot the computer into
the safe mode however Windows XP refused to do this. So I inserted the e-machine recovery disk into the
CD-ROM player. I was surprised to see the exact same message; something to the affect that Windows could not
boot into the safe mode and this problem could be the result of hardware issues caused by hardware issues.
|
| Well, I first called e-machine support and was told that since I did not send the computer to them to put in
a new e-machine motherboard (I doubt if this is even an option on my system) that they could not offer me any
support. I explained that all I wanted was a way to get to the Windows XP files [I tried to boot directly
from the recovery disk, this works but you really have no where to go from this point. I first booted from
the recovery disk and then tried to install Win 98 from a CD-ROM but received the dreaded "incorrect
COMMAND.COM" message.]
|
| I then called Microsoft and talked to a pleasant support specialist who gave me the number to get media
copies. I have not called them yet (I work nights and they are closed by time I get home) but I will very
soon of course. However I am very concerned that they will say that they cannot send me a copy of Windows XP
since I DO have my copy from e-machine.
|
| You know I am a big fan of Microsoft. The people who argue that Microsoft has monopoly power in some of the
market segments that they are in never bring up one very salient point. Microsoft makes GREAT products! This
being said I have never cared for some of their policies concerning how many copies of the operating system an
individual user (not a company or organized group of some kind but just an ordinary individual) has to buy.
If I own five computers I still believe I should only have to buy one copy of the operating system, after all
I cannot use all five computers at once. This goes hand in glove with my belief that Microsoft should go a
little easier on the hobbyist user (who some might call a "power" user) since from the ranks of these
hobbyists often emerge the new ideas that drive the industry. Also the hobbyist user will spend much more
money on both hardware and software than just an ordinary user---why not give them a break?
|
| Another aspect of this policy that disturbs me (especially with the strong enforcement mechanism built-in to
Windows XP) is that it is a policy that basically represents a death sentence for the white-box computing
business (what I mean by "white box industry" is all of the small computer stores that you see in strip-malls
etc.). After all the logic of using components is declining in the face of ever falling PC prices and if you
are going to be forced to buy a new operating system just because you changed the mother board in your
computer obviously this is going to be an unworkable situation very rapidly. With a low end computer the
price of the operating system alone can represent 20-25% of the cost.
|
| But getting back to the issue at hand, I just want to know if other people have had the same issue to
contend with and what kind of outcome did they experience. Also do you agree with my premise that since I did
buy Windows XP when I purchased my e-machine computer that I am entitled to have new copies of the disks
(separate from what is locked up in my e-machine recovery disks) just as if I had bought a copy in the store
and for some reason I needed some new media? I would also like to hear from anyone who disagrees with this
premise.
|
| Thanks,
| Jim
|
| Please CC to (e-mail address removed)
|
 
G

Guest

The preinstalled OEM Windows XP license that comes with a
manufacturer's computer is uniquely tied to the specific hardware
configuration of the computer. If you change the motherboard,
and it is a different model, the license is no longer valid.

If you wish to make significant hardware changes, then you'll
have to purchase a conventional "retail version" of Windows XP.

Huh? What if you buy an OEM version of XP online? Are you saying
that if your MB doesn't fit what the OEM software was configured for
that it won't work?

I would think all that you'd have to do is call MS and get another
license key issued.




**********************************************************************

People are more violently opposed to fur than leather because it's
safer to harass rich women than motorcycle gangs.
-Unknown


Remove "die spammers" to email
 
C

Carey Frisch [MVP]

OEM versions of Windows XP:

-- cannot upgrade over an existing Windows installation
-- cannot be transferred to a different computer in the future
-- the license cannot be sold or transferred to another user
-- are not eligible for free Microsoft technical support
-- must be purchased with some type of computer hardware
-- any problems whatsoever with the installation CD or Product Key
is not eligible for Microsoft support....you have to deal with the "seller".
-- cost less than "retail versions" due to the above limitations/risks

Should you purchase an OEM license version of XP?
http://www.tek-tips.com/gfaqs.cfm/pid/779/fid/4004

Windows XP OEM Clarification
http://www.michaelstevenstech.com/oemeula.htm

[Courtesy of MS-MVP Michael Stevens]

In September 2001 there were several changes to the OEM EULA with the release
of Windows XP Professional and Windows XP Home Edition. There are a
number of revisions and updates to the Windows XP EULA terms from previous
operating system versions. Many of these changes were made to reduce the length
of the Windows XP Product EULA as well as to reorder the terms for improved
readability.

What remains unchanged is that the Windows XP OEM license is
between the OEM and the end user and that the product is typically licensed for
use with the hardware or PC on which it was first installed.

--
Carey Frisch
Microsoft MVP
Windows XP - Shell/User

Be Smart! Protect your PC!
http://www.microsoft.com/security/protect/

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


|
| Huh? What if you buy an OEM version of XP online? Are you saying
| that if your MB doesn't fit what the OEM software was configured for
| that it won't work?
|
| I would think all that you'd have to do is call MS and get another
| license key issued.
 
G

Guest

OEM versions of Windows XP:

-- cannot upgrade over an existing Windows installation
-- cannot be transferred to a different computer in the future

...usually not a problem. It's recommended that one starts with a
clean install anyway.
-- the license cannot be sold or transferred to another user

....for $50 who cares? Buy another one. At $50 a pop for OEM Pro, I
can buy it 3 or 4 times and STILL have spent less than buying a full
version.
-- are not eligible for free Microsoft technical support

....like I have *ever* called MS for support.
-- must be purchased with some type of computer hardware

....a $1 power cord satisfies the requirement.
-- any problems whatsoever with the installation CD or Product Key
is not eligible for Microsoft support....you have to deal with the "seller".

...again it's $50
-- cost less than "retail versions" due to the above limitations/risks

...the "limitations" IMHO is a scare tactic invented and perpetuated by
MS to force people to pay for their full versions. I have both OEM
and a full commercial version of XP Pro. Both work fine, both
download updates and both have had no problems working.





**********************************************************************

People are more violently opposed to fur than leather because it's
safer to harass rich women than motorcycle gangs.
-Unknown


Remove "die spammers" to email
 
B

Bruce Chambers

Greetings --

There are some very important reasons that an OEM license costs so
much less than a retail license. OEM licenses are very limited:

1) OEM versions must be sold with a piece of hardware (normally
a motherboard or hard drive, if not an entire PC, although Microsoft
has greatly relaxed the hardware criteria for WinXP) and are
_permanently_ bound to the first PC on which they are installed. An
OEM license, once installed, is not legally transferable to another
computer under any circumstances. This is the main reason some people
avoid OEM versions; if the PC dies or is otherwise disposed of (even
stolen), you cannot re-use your OEM license on a new PC. The only
legitimate way to transfer the ownership of an installed OEM license
is to transfer ownership of the entire PC.

2) Microsoft provides no free support for OEM versions. If you
have any problems that require outside assistance, your only recourse
is to contact the manufacturer/builder of the PC or the vendor of the
OEM license. This would include such issues as lost a Product Key or
replacing damaged installation media. (Microsoft does make allowances
for those instances when you can prove that the OEM has gone out of
business.) This doesn't mean that you can't download patches and
service packs from Microsoft -- just no free telephone or email
support for problems with the OS.

3) An OEM CD cannot be used to perform an upgrade of an earlier
OS, as it was designed to be installed _only_ upon an empty hard
drive. It can still be used to perform a repair installation (a.k.a.
an in-place upgrade) of an existing WinXP installation.

4) If the OEM CD was designed by a specific manufacturer, such as
eMachines, Sony, Dell, Gateway, etc., it will most likely only install
on the same brand/model of PC, as an additional anti-piracy feature.
Further, such CDs are often severely customized to contain only the
minimum of device drivers, and a lot of extra nonsense, that the
manufacturer feels necessary for the specific model of PC for which
the CD was designed. (To be honest, such CDs should _not_ be
available on the open market; but, if you're shopping someplace like
eBay, eastern European web sites, swap meets, or computer fairs,
there's often no telling what you're buying until it's too late.) The
"generic" OEM CDs, such as are manufactured by Microsoft and sold to
small systems builders, don't have this particular problem, though,
and are pretty much the same as their retail counterparts, apart from
the licensing, support, and upgrading restrictions.


Bruce Chambers
--
Help us help you:



You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on
having both at once. -- RAH
 
B

Bob Harris

You did NOT buy the full version of XP when you bought the E-machine
computer. You bought an "OEM" license, which come with a few restrictions,
although no PC makers tells you about these ahead of time. I think that you
are begining to understand why.

The primary restriction that you bought was that the copy of XP was bound to
the PC. That is, it can not be un-installed and moved to another PC.

The second major restriction that you bought is that Microsoft will not
support your copy of XP, they will tell you to see your PC maker (i.e., the
OEM). The main reason that OEM software is cheaper than retail software is
that the software maker is relieved of all support responsibilities. You
can still get free XP updates and security patches from Microsoft, but not
free help.

The third restriction that you bought is that you can not do a "repair"
installation from the recovery CD (assuming that E-Machines gave you one).
You can only do a full installation, meaning that you lose all user files
and programs. Further, that full installation will only work on the
original hardware. (The "O" in OEM means original.)

So, unless E-machines feel generous, you will need to buy a full retail
version of XP (about $200, $300 for XP Pro) to make the PC work with the new
motherboard. However, if you have an old in98 or ME CDROM lying around, get
the uprade version of XP and use the older CD when asked for proof of a
qualifying operating system for the upgrade.

Jim said:
Hi!

My name is Jim and I live in Colorado Springs, CO. Recently I bought a
new motherboard to upgrade my, long-in-the-tooth, e-machine computer. I did
consider resealing Windows XP before changing the board but I decided not to
since my copy of XP is the upgrade version (at least I assume it is, it was
loaded on to the system by the oem, of course) and I thought this could lead
to trouble. Besides, I felt I could always explore that option latter if
needed.
I did expect the system to protest and perhaps make me call Microsoft for
a code but what happened instead came as a complete surprise. After
changing the motherboard I first just tried to reboot the computer into the
safe mode however Windows XP refused to do this. So I inserted the
e-machine recovery disk into the CD-ROM player. I was surprised to see the
exact same message; something to the affect that Windows could not boot into
the safe mode and this problem could be the result of hardware issues caused
by hardware issues.
Well, I first called e-machine support and was told that since I did not
send the computer to them to put in a new e-machine motherboard (I doubt if
this is even an option on my system) that they could not offer me any
support. I explained that all I wanted was a way to get to the Windows XP
files [I tried to boot directly from the recovery disk, this works but you
really have no where to go from this point. I first booted from the
recovery disk and then tried to install Win 98 from a CD-ROM but received
the dreaded "incorrect COMMAND.COM" message.]
I then called Microsoft and talked to a pleasant support specialist who
gave me the number to get media copies. I have not called them yet (I work
nights and they are closed by time I get home) but I will very soon of
course. However I am very concerned that they will say that they cannot
send me a copy of Windows XP since I DO have my copy from e-machine.
You know I am a big fan of Microsoft. The people who argue that Microsoft
has monopoly power in some of the market segments that they are in never
bring up one very salient point. Microsoft makes GREAT products! This
being said I have never cared for some of their policies concerning how many
copies of the operating system an individual user (not a company or
organized group of some kind but just an ordinary individual) has to buy.
If I own five computers I still believe I should only have to buy one copy
of the operating system, after all I cannot use all five computers at once.
This goes hand in glove with my belief that Microsoft should go a little
easier on the hobbyist user (who some might call a "power" user) since from
the ranks of these hobbyists often emerge the new ideas that drive the
industry. Also the hobbyist user will spend much more money on both
hardware and software than just an ordinary user---why not give them a
break?
Another aspect of this policy that disturbs me (especially with the strong
enforcement mechanism built-in to Windows XP) is that it is a policy that
basically represents a death sentence for the white-box computing business
(what I mean by "white box industry" is all of the small computer stores
that you see in strip-malls etc.). After all the logic of using components
is declining in the face of ever falling PC prices and if you are going to
be forced to buy a new operating system just because you changed the mother
board in your computer obviously this is going to be an unworkable situation
very rapidly. With a low end computer the price of the operating system
alone can represent 20-25% of the cost.
But getting back to the issue at hand, I just want to know if other people
have had the same issue to contend with and what kind of outcome did they
experience. Also do you agree with my premise that since I did buy Windows
XP when I purchased my e-machine computer that I am entitled to have new
copies of the disks (separate from what is locked up in my e-machine
recovery disks) just as if I had bought a copy in the store and for some
reason I needed some new media? I would also like to hear from anyone who
disagrees with this premise.
 
B

Bruce Chambers

Greetings --

While I'll agree with your steering people away from HP, who don't
even provide a recovery CD, and their low-grade, proprietary hardware,
I think you're doing Dell a disservice. Dell at least uses higher
quality and industry-standard components, and provides a true
installation CD that is capable of performing a repair installation.

Bruce Chambers
--
Help us help you:



You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on
having both at once. -- RAH
 

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