Master drive PIO, slave UDMA5 - why?

[Larry]

Just installed XP Pro on a Soltek SL-75KAV MB with AMD Duraon 1.3G
processor. Machine had two drives in it, one master and other slave on
primary IDE channel. Had to re-install since the master drive failed.
So master is Seagate 80G Ultra ATA/100 drive while slave is a Seagate
40G Ultra ATA drive.

Install went fine but I must have messed up FDISK or something since
the boot drive is E: while the 40G is D:! Guess it doesn't matter
really.

But during use of the machie noticed that the 80G was performing quite
slow in that trying to record video to it meant tons of dropped frames
while recording to the 40G was fine. Did a check in Control
Panel/System properties for the IDE channels and noticed that the
primary IDE channel (the 80G drive) is set at PIO and cannot be
changed while the secondary IDE channel is UDMA5 (the 40G). That would
explain the difference in performance but not why I can't change the
primary channel to UDMA5 also - it should be I am guessing.

Any ideas?

Thanks

Larry

 

[Rod Speed]

Just installed XP Pro on a Soltek SL-75KAV MB with AMD
Duraon 1.3G processor. Machine had two drives in it, one
master and other slave on primary IDE channel. Had to re-install
since the master drive failed. So master is Seagate 80G Ultra
ATA/100 drive while slave is a Seagate 40G Ultra ATA drive.

Install went fine but I must have messed up FDISK or something

Just how you specified where XP should be installed.

since the boot drive is E: while the 40G is D:!
Guess it doesn't matter really.

But during use of the machie noticed that the 80G was performing
quite slow in that trying to record video to it meant tons of dropped
frames while recording to the 40G was fine. Did a check in Control
Panel/System properties for the IDE channels and noticed that the
primary IDE channel (the 80G drive) is set at PIO and cannot be
changed while the secondary IDE channel is UDMA5 (the 40G).
That would explain the difference in performance but not why I can't
change the primary channel to UDMA5 also - it should be I am guessing.

Any ideas?

XP will turn DMA off if it sees a significant level
of errors with a drive. Presumably that happened
with the original drive that later failed.
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;817472&product=winxp

Where are you trying to change it ?

 

[Larry]

Just how you specified where XP should be installed.




XP will turn DMA off if it sees a significant level
of errors with a drive. Presumably that happened
with the original drive that later failed.
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;817472&product=winxp

That rings true since the drive died in the end

Looks like you need to ask Microsoft for the fix but I wonder if just
removing the controller and having Windows re-install it would fix the
problem

Where are you trying to change it ?

In Control Panel/System/hardware/Device Manager/IDE ATA/ATAPI
Controllers/Advanced Settings


Larry
I can get tot the same place from Computer Management etc.

 

[Rod Speed]

That rings true since the drive died in the end

Yeah, that's what I meant.

Looks like you need to ask Microsoft for the fix

Nope. Do what it says in the section labelled workaround.

but I wonder if just removing the controller and
having Windows re-install it would fix the problem

Yep, thats what it says in the section labelled workaround.

In Control Panel/System/hardware/Device Manager/IDE ATA/ATAPI
Controllers/Advanced Settings

I can get tot the same place from Computer Management etc.

Fine, thats correct, just wanted to make sure thats where you were.

 

[Larry]

Yeah, that's what I meant.


Nope. Do what it says in the section labelled workaround.


Yep, thats what it says in the section labelled workaround.




Fine, thats correct, just wanted to make sure thats where you were.

Thanks - that fixed it. I doubt if I would have worked this out myself
and was prepared to do a Repair installation of XP which I guess would
have also fixed it

 

[Nicholas Buenk]

Just how you specified where XP should be installed.




XP will turn DMA off if it sees a significant level
of errors with a drive. Presumably that happened
with the original drive that later failed.
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;817472&product=winxp

Where are you trying to change it ?

Ahh, that would explain why when I had a similar problem I managed to fix it
by removing the HD driver so that it got reinstalled and reset. However,
perhaps he should consider replacing his IDE cable.

 

[Rod Speed]

Ahh, that would explain why when I had a similar problem I managed
to fix it by removing the HD driver so that it got reinstalled and reset.
Yes.

However, perhaps he should consider replacing his IDE cable.

Its not likely to be that unless he fooled himself
on the earlier drive failure with a bad cable. If
the drive really did die, its just a quirk of XP.

 

[Larry]

Its not likely to be that unless he fooled himself
on the earlier drive failure with a bad cable. If
the drive really did die, its just a quirk of XP.

The drive definitely died (made all kinds of clanking noises, got
Windows Delayed Write Failure errors etc.). I sent it back to Maxtor
(though it was a Quantum Fireball) and they replaced it. Meanwhile I
put in the Seagate 80G and did a fresh installation of XP using the
same cable and then began to experience the problem I described.
Interestingly and somewhat puzzling, though the problem did appear to
be the one where XP drops the transfer rate after many errors, how
could it possibly know that the earlier drive had had these problems
when I did a completely fresh installation of XP on a new drive?
Surely it didn't store that information on the slave drive which was
still there?

Larry

 

[Rod Speed]

The drive definitely died (made all kinds of clanking
noises, got Windows Delayed Write Failure errors
etc.). I sent it back to Maxtor (though it was a
Quantum Fireball) and they replaced it.

Meanwhile I put in the Seagate 80G and did a fresh installation of XP

OK, I assumed you had just replaced the boot
drive by cloning the original before it had died.

using the same cable and then began to experience the problem I described.

Urk, that does indicate that it isnt likely to be a drive failure.

Interestingly and somewhat puzzling,

Yeah. Very likely the problem is outside the drive.

though the problem did appear to be the one where XP drops
the transfer rate after many errors, how could it possibly know
that the earlier drive had had these problems when I did a
completely fresh installation of XP on a new drive? Surely it didn't
store that information on the slave drive which was still there?

Correct. I assumed you had had indications of an imminent
drive failure, had cloned the drive with something like ghost, in
which case XP wouldnt necessarily have reset the disabling of
DMA mode due to the high error rate seen with the original drive.

Most likely either it is a bad ribbon cable, or one that
flouts the ATA specs by being too long or one of those
stupid round cables, or its something else like a bad
power connector or the drive is getting very hot in use etc.

 

[Larry]

OK, I assumed you had just replaced the boot
drive by cloning the original before it had died.

Didn't occur to me - only choice would have been to Ghost via USB 1.1
and that's a bit painfully slow

Urk, that does indicate that it isnt likely to be a drive failure.


Yeah. Very likely the problem is outside the drive.


Correct. I assumed you had had indications of an imminent
drive failure, had cloned the drive with something like ghost, in
which case XP wouldnt necessarily have reset the disabling of
DMA mode due to the high error rate seen with the original drive.

Most likely either it is a bad ribbon cable, or one that
flouts the ATA specs by being too long or one of those
stupid round cables, or its something else like a bad
power connector or the drive is getting very hot in use etc.

COuld be the cable. In re-installing the drive, when pulling the old
cable out, it pulled away from the connector that is crimped onto the
cable for the slave unit so I had to remove that connector with pliers
from the drive! I replaced the cable with a new one. Maybe just a set
of coincidences - both drives work fine now

 

[Rod Speed]

Didn't occur to me - only choice would have been
to Ghost via USB 1.1 and that's a bit painfully slow

Why couldnt you have cloned the failing drive using a
temporary lashup with both drives on internal ribbon cable(s) ?

COuld be the cable. In re-installing the drive, when
pulling the old cable out, it pulled away from the connector
that is crimped onto the cable for the slave unit so I had
to remove that connector with pliers from the drive!

Yeah, very likely it was quite flakey even before it came apart.

I replaced the cable with a new one. Maybe just
a set of coincidences - both drives work fine now

Yeah, most likely the drive was flaky enough to make
the original drive look bad. Not too clear if you used the
new cable for the new drive all the time tho. If you did,
that shouldnt have seen XP disable DMA for that drive
with a clean reinstall on that drive. If thats what happened,
that the new cable was always used with the new drive, most
likely you've still got a problem and thats just hiding currently.