Manager?

[Guest]

This isn't a technical question, but I do need advice. I am a Visual Basic
programmer though I have used C in the past. My manager has given me the
follwing task and 3 weeks to complete it.

Implement a POC application in InfoPath Services 2007 based on at least 3
clinical forms. The application will be coded in C# and use the .NET
Framework 2.0 and/or .NET Framework 3.0. This application will write to and
from a new database via web services and store the data in XML format. The
Microsoft Enterprise Library 2.0 should be used for all ADO.NET calls and for
Exception handling, which must be implemented for this application.

I think this is unreasonable. What do other developers think? How long
would it take an experienced C# programmer to leran InfoPath 2007 and do this?

 

[John Timney \(MVP\)]

Sounds like a nice learning exercise and one you should jump at.

3 weeks is probably a reasonable time as long as the outcome is not mission
critical and carries no dependencies given your lack of experience of the
technologies mentioned. Go back and persuade the manager that you will try
and complete it within the given timeframe, but he has to accept the risk
that these are new technologies to you and the learning curve is fairly
steep for you.

Regards

John Timney (MVP)
http://www.johntimney.com
http://www.johntimney.com/blog

 

[Nicholas Paldino [.NET/C# MVP]]

Helen,

You haven't given a reason as to ^why^ you think it is unreasonable. If
you can elaborate on that, then perhaps we could give you information as to
whether or not it is actually the case.

Although you said that data is going to be stored in an XML format. Is
that really the format that it is going to be stored in, or will it be
stored in a database and the XML constructed on the fly when needed?

 

[Guest]

I think 3 weeks is an unreasonable amount of time to do it in. I've never
used InfoPath 2007 or the Enterprise Library and I'm not a C# programmer.
It's a lot to learn in a short time.

The form data will be stored as an XML data type and the InfoPath form will
use it as the data source. Is this a sensible way of doig it?

Thanks for your help,
Helen

Helen,

You haven't given a reason as to ^why^ you think it is unreasonable. If
you can elaborate on that, then perhaps we could give you information as to
whether or not it is actually the case.

Although you said that data is going to be stored in an XML format. Is
that really the format that it is going to be stored in, or will it be
stored in a database and the XML constructed on the fly when needed?


--
- Nicholas Paldino [.NET/C# MVP]
- (e-mail address removed)

This isn't a technical question, but I do need advice. I am a Visual
Basic
programmer though I have used C in the past. My manager has given me the
follwing task and 3 weeks to complete it.

Implement a POC application in InfoPath Services 2007 based on at least 3
clinical forms. The application will be coded in C# and use the .NET
Framework 2.0 and/or .NET Framework 3.0. This application will write to
and
from a new database via web services and store the data in XML format. The
Microsoft Enterprise Library 2.0 should be used for all ADO.NET calls and
for
Exception handling, which must be implemented for this application.

I think this is unreasonable. What do other developers think? How long
would it take an experienced C# programmer to leran InfoPath 2007 and do
this?

 

[Larry Smith]

This isn't a technical question, but I do need advice. I am a Visual

Basic
programmer though I have used C in the past. My manager has given me the
follwing task and 3 weeks to complete it.

Implement a POC application in InfoPath Services 2007 based on at least 3
clinical forms. The application will be coded in C# and use the .NET
Framework 2.0 and/or .NET Framework 3.0. This application will write to
and
from a new database via web services and store the data in XML format. The
Microsoft Enterprise Library 2.0 should be used for all ADO.NET calls and
for
Exception handling, which must be implemented for this application.

I think this is unreasonable. What do other developers think? How long
would it take an experienced C# programmer to leran InfoPath 2007 and do
this?

It may be doable for someone who's already experienced in the areas you
mentioned but it's really anyone's guess. Nobody really knows the
requirements beyond what you've described but unless it really is a trivial
exercise then it seems unlikely that you'll be able to pull this off. His
expectations therefore appear to be unreasonable and even extremely so (my
initial impression anyway). I know it's difficult but you should (politely)
explain this to your boss who doesn't appear to be competent. Tell him
you're not looking for a parachute and you're capable of handling the work
but you can't accurately assess what you don't know in advance. Showing
confidence but respect is the key regardless of what he says. There's a
significant risk you won't finish it on time IMO (or cleanly anyway) and he
needs to understand that reqgardless of the consequences. If he doesn't then
you've done your job and there's nothing more you can do.

 

[Arnshea]

This isn't a technical question, but I do need advice. I am a Visual Basic
programmer though I have used C in the past. My manager has given me the
follwing task and 3 weeks to complete it.

Implement a POC application in InfoPath Services 2007 based on at least 3
clinical forms. The application will be coded in C# and use the .NET
Framework 2.0 and/or .NET Framework 3.0. This application will write to and
from a new database via web services and store the data in XML format. The
Microsoft Enterprise Library 2.0 should be used for all ADO.NET calls and for
Exception handling, which must be implemented for this application.

I think this is unreasonable. What do other developers think? How long
would it take an experienced C# programmer to leran InfoPath 2007 and do this?

I agree that getting all of that in a form usable by customers in 3
weeks is probably unreasonable. It's an entirely new language (C#), a
new framework (asp.net), and 2 new libraries/technologies (Infopath
and Enterprise Library 2.0). Doubly so if your background is VB
windows apps - there's a substantial learning curve just transitioning
from windows apps to web apps!

Beyond just being able to "get it to work" getting it to work well
will probably involve some rounds of QA cycles with their concomitant
bug fixes and the inevitable design changes ("we'd like this
positioned here" or "we'd like a confirmation page", etc...). IMHO 3
weeks is a really short time even for someone who was well versed in
all of the technology components.

And if you're not one of those types who lives to get closer to the
machine (I'm not knocking them but we're kinda rare!), e.g., you have/
crave a life outside of computers, as they say in the movies -
fugedaboutit.

 

[Guest]

It may be resonable with several people working in their expertise where the
sum of their labor is approximately 3 person weeks. Our web guys are not
database guys, etc.

Have you tried to define a solution that reaches your managers goal's, which
you could feel comfortable with, in the manager's given timeframe?

 

[Guest]

I've been working with C# and the .NET Platform since 2000 (the first BETA).
I would find these requirements challenging, given the three week time
frame, and the only thing I'd have to learn in your list is InfoPath.

The real question here is how do you manage expectations of a manager who
either doesn't understand your current capabilities, or who is simply not in
touch with the realities of software development. BTW if he/she wants you to
optionally use C# 3.0, then you might as well include Enterprise Library 3.1
- that's the current version.
-- Peter
Recursion: see Recursion
site: http://www.eggheadcafe.com
unBlog: http://petesbloggerama.blogspot.com
BlogMetaFinder: http://www.blogmetafinder.com

 

[Jeremy S.]

IMHO it's unrealistic to believe anyone could do this given the starting
point you describe.

While you might be able to copy and tweak enough code and hammer out
something that works, you likely will not understand how it works, or how to
fix it or make it work better until you understand:

1. The .NET Frameowork's base class libraries and how they hang together.
2. ADO.NET (it is very different than ADO classic or DAO, which you are
likely already familiar)
3. XML - depending on the requirements for the document format, and any
parsing engine requirements (DTD, etc).
4. C# itself (and its case sensitivity, indexers syntax, logical operator
syntax differences, etc).
5. Basic OOP concepts (which VB6 generally hides from you)
6. Enterprise Library and how to use it
7. InfoPath 2007.
8. Visual Studio .NET 2005 - and its conceptualizations of projects and
solutions, where all the pieces live on disk, debug vs release builds, etc.
9. Unknowns - like if you need to use a .config file (App.config) - how long
will it take for you to learn the .NET configuration system - which doesn't
exist in VB6.
10. Unknowns - changes in the requirements of the project. Unrealistic
managers (which you apparently have) are likely to change requirements
significantly without allowing for any adjustment to the expected due
dates...

You might want to print out some of these responses for the manager so that
he/she understands that there is some concensus about how unrealistic he/she
might be (i.e., it's not just you).

Life in the trenches note: Several years ago I moved from Visual Basic 6 to
..NET (C# and VB.NET), and I have subsequently trained other "VB 'ers" on
moving to .NET. Moving from VB classic to .NET alone is a big change for
VB folks. With the move to C#, you are likely to waste 2 hours (cumulative)
during the next 3 weeks alone troubleshooting errors related to the fact
that C# is case sensitive (i.e., "what's wrong with this code?" ... then 5
minutes later ... "oh, it should have been myThing and not MyThing."). I've
been there, and so has every VB old-timer that I have trained, and many
others I have spoken to.

Your boss wouldn't understand.

Good luck.

 

[Ian Semmel]

Your boss sounds like a jerk. Ask him where he got the 3 weeks from.

Maybe it's simple, maybe it's not. A decent manager would give you the
problem and ask you how long it would take you to implement. Look around
for another job and when you've got one tell him to shove it.

 

[clintonG]

<snip />

Helen, Helen, Helen, what's a matta you? This type of so-called "manager" is
a sadistic f*cked up moron with mental health defects which is why these
types are so often hired by the even sicker defective fleshy growths that
escaped the abortion doctor's knife who are the so-called higher ups on the
food chain that have identified you as their most recent crumb.

So no f*cking way José is this project as you've described it going to get
done in three weeks by anybody that is not expereinced using C# and has not
worked with the exact software developing the exact type of application
using the specified language. Three weeks? Hardy Har Har

All that said, your keyword "clinical" reminded me to look this up for
you...
http://www.mscui.net/

I hope that helps you make some points --but-- I'm not kidding when I say
this because a manager such as the one who has presented you with this
apparent insurmountable task has another agenda and I won't get into those I
know women in the workplace are all too often subjected to as the manager
may be another woman.

Regarless, I would sugest you think long and hard about finding another
employer and quick before you become the compromised scapegoat and can not
get out with an acceptable referral from the employer.

Research the term "death march" [1] that this @sshole or @ssholette as the
case may be has set you up for and know this as a demented fact of life: the
"manager" is always the last to be held accountable.

<%= Clinton Gallagher
NET csgallagher AT metromilwaukee.com
URL http://clintongallagher.metromilwaukee.com/

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_march_(software_development)

 

[Guest]

Thanks for your support, guys.

Much appreciated,
Helen

 

[Doug Semler]

This isn't a technical question, but I do need advice. I am a Visual Basic
programmer though I have used C in the past. My manager has given me the
follwing task and 3 weeks to complete it.

Implement a POC application in InfoPath Services 2007 based on at least 3
clinical forms. The application will be coded in C# and use the .NET
Framework 2.0 and/or .NET Framework 3.0. This application will write to and
from a new database via web services and store the data in XML format. The
Microsoft Enterprise Library 2.0 should be used for all ADO.NET calls and for
Exception handling, which must be implemented for this application.

I think this is unreasonable. What do other developers think? How long
would it take an experienced C# programmer to leran InfoPath 2007 and do this?

Where did the three weeks come from? Was it something like someone in
marketing sold something to someone else and told them the three weeks
then came back to the development group and said you got three weeks
to do it lol. Do you already have design documents all of the
components? Requirements specifications? Test plans? Component
models? Interface specs? (I could go on...)

A good manager would have given you the problem specification and
asked you how long it will take to implement and ask what other
resources you will need. Hell, a good manager will have a project
plan that includes learning curve times (i.e. how long will it take
JUST to learn how to use InfoPath 2007?) AND document churning times.
For all I know, 3 weeks is a good estimate if you are coding against a
current, well defined and immutable design specification, but WE all
know how THAT works in the real world...

 

[Guest]

That does sound very unreasonable, especially when you state you are a VB
programmer, with some exposure to C.

If you've got no experience of InfoPath or any real world use of C#, I think
3 weeks sounds unachievable.
As Doug says, an experienced developer would require detailed requirements,
design docs, test plans etc to be able to start coding.
And, even then, I think 3 weeks would be pushing it. :-(

I reckon it would take me 3 weeks to flush out the detailed requirements and
produce some design documentation.
And then, I'd have to find time to learn InfoPath.

As an aside though, if you do end up having to implement it, I would look at
using the Service Factory for your WebService/Data Access code
(www.codeplex.com/servicefactory), which uses MS patterns and practices to
develop the Webservice/Data access code....but it adds another learning
curve to your project. :-(

HTH