Locked out of Beta.

[Guest]

Hi, I have heard that there is a new Beta of Vista that has been released.
How do I get to download and test it?

I know that the latest build isn't supposed to be a public beta - but I
reported something like 47 different bugs I found with beta 2 - and I worked
very hard to find all of those. I am a very good beta tester.

It seems rough that the only reward I get for finding and reporting all of
these bugs is to be locked out of the beta program until at least RC1 - which
may still be several months away.

Perhaps MS doesn't want dilligent and hard working beta testers who are
prepared to look for and hunt down bugs and to report them regularly?

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

Build 5456 is available to the TechBeta testers. It is just another Beta 2
build so it will not be released to the public beta folks. The next drop
for them will be RC1 several months from now. Your bugs are still valid so
keep up the good work.

 

[Guest]

Yeah thanks a lot like I said.

Build 5456 is available to the TechBeta testers. It is just another Beta 2
build so it will not be released to the public beta folks. The next drop
for them will be RC1 several months from now. Your bugs are still valid so
keep up the good work.

 

[Daphne Foldes]

Hello Mr. Colin

My Dad received it also. But he is in the hospital with a stroke. I will keep it for him until he gets better.

Bye

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

Our prayers for you and your Dad. I know he will want to see it.

Hello Mr. Colin

My Dad received it also. But he is in the hospital with a stroke. I will
keep it for him until he gets better.

Bye

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

There are a lot of TechBeta folks who opted for the mailed dvd's too and
they don't have access to the interim builds. Most of them are dialup
people and people in areas where internet service has tolls and such.

 

[Guest]

Well this isn't my only concern. My other concern is that techbeta members
are likely to be rewarded, just as they were during the XP betas -whereas
equally (if not more) dilligent and hard working beta testers such as myself
as likely to be locked out and excluded - regardless of the scope of their
contribution.

It seems more than a little unfair.

Given that I'm not rich - how do I get to be a techbeta tester? As far as I
am aware, previously this required buying a very expensive MSDN subscription
- which was pretty much out of my reach.

I am happy to contribute, but this is hardly an open source type project, so
I would at least like the possibility that my contribution might be
aknowledged at some point in the future.

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

I never bought an MSDN subscription. I applied for and was accepted into
TechBeta without buying anything to get in. Some TechBeta testers are well
known to MS from testing other products and earlier operating systems. Some
are included because they are MVP's. Others for many other reasons.

MSDN subscribers have access to Vista through MSDN to enable them to test
their products against Vista as it progresses and are not generally in the
TechBeta program (some TechBeta testers also happen to have MSDN
subscriptions).

Everyone involved in this process feels some sense of exclusion from some
yet deeper level of the process. Short of actually being a member of one of
the development teams at MS that is just how it is.

 

[Guest]

Yes well how do you apply?

I guess that's the question.

I think I gave some very good feedback on beta 2. And I think I can continue
to contribute more.

I would also be a little *upset* to say the least, if one or more of the
bugs I found (given that some were quite hard to find and that they might not
be so obvious to a less technical user) if they were corrected and at the end
of the day those who contributed significantly less were granted 'golden
tickets' like they were for for the XP final releases, while competant and
dilligent testers and reporters like myself were exluded.

It is certainly no joke when you consider just exactly how much Microsoft is
proposing to charge for the 'Ultimate' edition of it''s OS - which Techbeta
members will probably get for free - regardless of whether they have actually
done any real beta testing/reporting or not.

 

[Zapper]

We understand that you want to be in the TechBeta program...many of us do,
but we are not.
The sign up for the Vista beta testing happened quite awhile ago if I am not
mistaken.

If a member of the TechBeta team did not "done any real testing", they will
either not get the final version, or would not be included in any future
testing.

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

Go to http://connect.microsoft.com/intro.aspx and review the process. You
will find programs open now and you can register to be invited to others.
If a program, like Vista TechBeta, is not looking for more testers you will
not see it listed.

For the long range, get yourself noticed to recieve nominations.
Participate in public newsgroups in areas of your technical expertise and
become known as a contibutor to improving the Windows experience of others.
One thing will lead to another. This how folks become MVP's.

If you have contacts within any of the MS program teams those folks can
advise you further.

Read Microsoft blogs and freely offer to help in areas of your interest and
expertise.

There are hundreds of ways like these to connect up with opportunities to
participate.

 

[Guest]

Yeah... well that still leaves me locked out of the final version of Vista
and the contribution I have made unrecognized.

I don't mind so much if I can feel like I am contributing to a 'community'
and the contributions I make are for the equal (and mutual) benefit of
everyone.

But when it comes to a private company who may stand to benefit considerably
from any bugs or contributions I might make - I think it's only reasonable to
hope that your contribution will be recognized in some way. I'm not asking
for the moon after all - and even if all of my contributions amounted to
nothing and MS did not view them as warranting attention, I would be fine
with that too.

But I do think that this company should recognize each users contributions,
whether they within the techbeta program or outside of it - and that each
individual contribution should be treated on it's merit.

Otherwise you will end up with a scenario where some individuals have done
far less work - but will be rewarded substantially above others who have
contributed far more - purely on the basis that they are fortunate enough to
be members of the techbeta program.

 

[Zapper]

Do you have the button checked to make your bug submissions "anonymous", or
do you have it send your email address?
If you send your email address, and you are half as proficient/unique as you
think you are, you will be contacted by someone to participate...

 

[Guest]

I do not think I am 'unique' or 'special' at all.

It may well be that none of the submissions I have made will prove to be of
any value.

I am simply stating that each submission should be taken on it's merit,
whether it comes from me, or from anyone else, regardless of whether the
contributor is inside the techbeta program or outside of it.

Otherwise what would happen if someone really did spot a glaring issue that
everyone else had missed that required urgent attention? How will their
contribution be recognized? Or are they to be excluded too, simply because
they are not 'official' MS beta testers?

Why should someone who reports a small minor issue like a missing icon, be
favored above someone who is able to devote some hours each day in genuine
beta testing and bug submission?

In any case in answer to your question, I have chosen not to submit bugs
anonymously and to offer full participation in all Vista associated programs
- even those pertaining to how I use Vista on a day to day basis. I have
opted in other words for full disclosure - since really I can't see the point
in doing beta testing if developers can't contact testers when they need to
try to resolve issues. Indeed I have even thought that MS would benefit from
being able to schedule full remote desktop access to my PC (and perhaps to
several hundred or more users PC's) in order to be able to perform real world
testing and bug resolution.

So yes MS do have my email address (and my telephone number and my postal
address) and are welcome to contact me at any time. I will be happy to
participate further should I be requested to do so.

 

[Jupiter Jones [MVP]]

Often it is to late once a Beta is imminent.
If you really want to become a Beta tester of a specific product, you should
start long before the product is in Beta.
Adding to what was previously said, also apply for Betas that interest you.
Actively participate and get to know and be known by others in the Beta
community, including Microsoft.
Then when a Beta comes around you really want to participate, you chances of
being picked are greater.
And if you are not chosen, perhaps by then you know someone you can ask.

 

[Guest]

Yes but you are missing the point of much of what I have said.

It just seems utterly arbitrary as to whether you are a techbeta member or
not - as this does not necessarily reflect the extent of each individuals
contribution.

Contributions should be taken on merit - regardless of what the contributors
current status might be.

People shouldn't be rewarded merely for the fact that they are Vista
techbeta members.

I'm in no way looking for a free lunch - but equally I don't think anyone
else should be entitled to one either..

If contributions are recognized, the only consideration should be whether or
not those contributions have proved valuable.

GJ

 

[Zapper]

Have you read a SINGLE suggestion that has been made to you???

Comprehension seems to be an issue....

 

[Guest]

Yes I have. But it may have escaped your own attention that the beta for
Vista is now closed - so I can't volunteer for it. If I could I would sign up
for it in a heart beat and it is likely that we wouldn't be having this
conversation.

So there is nothing wrong with my comprehension and your rudeness is both
unwarranted and uncalled for.

As it happens - having looked through the various beta programs, there is
nothing really there that interests me - except (unsurprisingly perhaps since
it is the biggest news to come out of MS in several years) Vista itself.

I think it's a valid concern to raise that Beta testers should only be
rewarded if they make valid contributions - and whether or not you are a
techbeta member should be irrelevant in this, as clearly this may not always
reflect the extent of a beta testers contribution.

It just seems to me that there is a good possibility that techbeta Vista
members can potentially pretty much get away with sitting around scratching
their rears and still be richly rewarded for it, while others who make far
more significant contributions and who are not official techbeta members are
likely to be charged $500 minimum for the merely for the privilege of having
made their contribution, if that is they wish to continue using Vista after
the beta and RC stages have been completed.

This is exactly what happened during the XP betas, where techbeta members of
the program were handed final versions for free, regardless of whether they
had made any real contribution or not. There was no discrimination over who
had contributed what - and indeed I know of several individuals at that time
who either contributed nothing, or at best very little - but were still
handed free copies of the final production code, purely on the basis that
they were techbeta members. It didn't seem to matter if they were good
testers or bad testers, they simply needed to have the good fortune to be
members of the official beta program.

Nor do I think it is wrong to raise this issue - as as I said this is hardly
a community based type effort. Most people stand to gain something from
participation - not least of all Microsoft themselves. I'm all for share and
share alike - and indeed am an active and frequent contributor to a number of
OSS community based products (yes I know Microsoft doesn't like OSS software
- but really they are two different worlds and I tend to regard them as
such). But I don't know about working my butt off for a private company,
expending a great deal of valuable effort and time and taking the process of
beta testing seriously if that contribution is unlikely to ever be
recognized. Why should anyone under those circumstances feel motivated to
genuinely contribute? MS make billions, while I don't even get the chance of
a single free licence, regardless of whether my contribution is considered
valuable or useful or not? (Given that of course my contribution may well be
judged to not be valuable at all. I'm not for example, saying that everyone
who makes a false or erronerous bug report should automatically be granted a
free licence).

Anyway it is irrelevant as I don't seem to be making any headway and some
posters appear to feel increasingly inclined towards rudeness.

I do hope though that Microsoft themselves will be gracious enough to take
my concerns into consideration.

Best regards,

GJ

 

[Zapper]

#6... CH slid in there for #5

Yes I have. But it may have escaped your own attention that the beta for
Vista is now closed - so I can't volunteer for it. If I could I would sign
up
for it in a heart beat and it is likely that we wouldn't be having this
conversation.

So there is nothing wrong with my comprehension and your rudeness is both
unwarranted and uncalled for.

As it happens - having looked through the various beta programs, there is
nothing really there that interests me - except (unsurprisingly perhaps
since
it is the biggest news to come out of MS in several years) Vista itself.

I think it's a valid concern to raise that Beta testers should only be
rewarded if they make valid contributions - and whether or not you are a
techbeta member should be irrelevant in this, as clearly this may not
always
reflect the extent of a beta testers contribution.

It just seems to me that there is a good possibility that techbeta Vista
members can potentially pretty much get away with sitting around
scratching
their rears and still be richly rewarded for it, while others who make far
more significant contributions and who are not official techbeta members
are
likely to be charged $500 minimum for the merely for the privilege of
having
made their contribution, if that is they wish to continue using Vista
after
the beta and RC stages have been completed.

This is exactly what happened during the XP betas, where techbeta members
of
the program were handed final versions for free, regardless of whether
they
had made any real contribution or not. There was no discrimination over
who
had contributed what - and indeed I know of several individuals at that
time
who either contributed nothing, or at best very little - but were still
handed free copies of the final production code, purely on the basis that
they were techbeta members. It didn't seem to matter if they were good
testers or bad testers, they simply needed to have the good fortune to be
members of the official beta program.

Nor do I think it is wrong to raise this issue - as as I said this is
hardly
a community based type effort. Most people stand to gain something from
participation - not least of all Microsoft themselves. I'm all for share
and
share alike - and indeed am an active and frequent contributor to a number
of
OSS community based products (yes I know Microsoft doesn't like OSS
software
- but really they are two different worlds and I tend to regard them as
such). But I don't know about working my butt off for a private company,
expending a great deal of valuable effort and time and taking the process
of
beta testing seriously if that contribution is unlikely to ever be
recognized. Why should anyone under those circumstances feel motivated to
genuinely contribute? MS make billions, while I don't even get the chance
of
a single free licence, regardless of whether my contribution is considered
valuable or useful or not? (Given that of course my contribution may well
be
judged to not be valuable at all. I'm not for example, saying that
everyone
who makes a false or erronerous bug report should automatically be granted
a
free licence).

Anyway it is irrelevant as I don't seem to be making any headway and some
posters appear to feel increasingly inclined towards rudeness.

I do hope though that Microsoft themselves will be gracious enough to take
my concerns into consideration.

Best regards,

GJ

 

[Jupiter Jones [MVP]]

No rewards are promised to any of the Vista Technical Beta testers.
Some hope for something, but even fewer expect something.
And NONE are promised or entitled to anything.
Most that I know did it for two reasons:
1. To get an early look at something new.
2. The challenge of learning something new while at the same time hopefully
contributing to its development.

Measuring contributions is extremely difficult especially from outside
Microsoft.
Microsoft has chosen an extremely wide cross section of computer users.
Everyone from those minimally familiar but at least able to install an
operating system to IT professionals at all levels.
Wide ranges of occupations are also represented from doctors, housewives,
lawyers, fast food employees,accountants etc.
You name it, there is probably a Beta tester who does it.
They are also from a wide range of countries all around the globe.

If you wanted to be in the Vista Beta, 2 years ago may have been a good time
to start, that is when I discovered I would probably be in the Vista Beta.

As I suggested before, plan now for a future Beta that will interest you.
When you finally see it, hopefully you have already taken steps since at
that time it will again be to late.
There is another OS on the distant horizon, what are you doing now to help
get yourself a place in that Beta?
Now is the time to start.