is it possible to put a CDROM boot record on a USB key? Boot a USBkey like a win xp setup cd?

[jameshanley39]

hi

i was wondering if it was possible to put a CDROM boot record onto a
usb key.. For example,

it is possible to get a CDROM to boot like a floppy disk.. You can
take a Dos floppy boot disk, and pass that or the boot sector from
that, to a program like Nero, which can do it. And thus one can make a
bootable dos cd.

How about the other way though.. How about making a hard drive, or how
about making a usb key, Boot like a CDROM does.. So for example..
One could install windows from a usb key, since one can install it
from a win9x/dos7 boot disk (HP make a tool - HPUSBFW.EXE - to
format a usb key like a dos boot disk - with that boot record)
But that would then involve getting to DOS and running something like
\WINNT\SETUP.EXE
How about getting the USB key to actually boot like a win xp setup cd
does?

I know, CDROMs use some El Torito standard. and it is different. But
they can emulate floppy disks. So It should not be too much to ask for
[usb] disks to be able to emulate hoow they boot. To convert the boot
record into usb disk form.

-
On a different note. Roadkil sector editor , used on floppy disks,
that was good! could actually see and identify whether a disk was
formatted with "msdos boot disk" checked or not.. Without booting.

magiciso or a simple CLI program called BootExtract.exe can extract
the boot record from a cdrom, it is 2048KB instead of a floppy one
that is 512KB. The CDROM boot record can be used by nero to make
other bootable CDs like it - write that boot record to the CDROM.

One thing i cannot find, though i don`t think it is that necessary.. A
program to format a usb key with whatever boot record you specify.
Is that possible? Or at least something more flexible than the HP
tool, for formatting or writing a boot record to usb keys.

 

[sandy58]

By "usb keys" I take it you mean Data Pen, Flash drive, USB drive?
getting so many names now for THAT little item. What exactly are you
trying to acheive here? You got boot probs.......on what?? Kinda
rambling a bit from dos to CDROM boot record? Are you asking or
telling? Can't quite tell here. Sorry.

 

[John McGaw]

hi

i was wondering if it was possible to put a CDROM boot record onto a
usb key.. For example,

it is possible to get a CDROM to boot like a floppy disk.. You can
take a Dos floppy boot disk, and pass that or the boot sector from
that, to a program like Nero, which can do it. And thus one can make a
bootable dos cd.

How about the other way though.. How about making a hard drive, or how
about making a usb key, Boot like a CDROM does.. So for example..
One could install windows from a usb key, since one can install it
from a win9x/dos7 boot disk (HP make a tool - HPUSBFW.EXE - to
format a usb key like a dos boot disk - with that boot record)
But that would then involve getting to DOS and running something like
\WINNT\SETUP.EXE
How about getting the USB key to actually boot like a win xp setup cd
does?

I know, CDROMs use some El Torito standard. and it is different. But
they can emulate floppy disks. So It should not be too much to ask for
[usb] disks to be able to emulate hoow they boot. To convert the boot
record into usb disk form.

-
On a different note. Roadkil sector editor , used on floppy disks,
that was good! could actually see and identify whether a disk was
formatted with "msdos boot disk" checked or not.. Without booting.

magiciso or a simple CLI program called BootExtract.exe can extract
the boot record from a cdrom, it is 2048KB instead of a floppy one
that is 512KB. The CDROM boot record can be used by nero to make
other bootable CDs like it - write that boot record to the CDROM.

One thing i cannot find, though i don`t think it is that necessary.. A
program to format a usb key with whatever boot record you specify.
Is that possible? Or at least something more flexible than the HP
tool, for formatting or writing a boot record to usb keys.

If your motherboard and BIOS supports it, yes. For example, look at

http://www.bootdisk.com/pendrive.htm

 

[jameshanley39]

On Dec 18, 3:17 am, "(e-mail address removed)"
<snip>


I am asking if it is possible to LITERALLY - without workarounds -

Example-
Boot a USB key like a win xp setup cd

For example
install windows from a USB key. Restart the computer and have it boot
straight into the windows setup. From the usb key. Instead of from a
CD.

This is not an easy question to answer.

 

[jameshanley39]

If your motherboard and BIOS supports it, yes. For example, look at

http://www.bootdisk.com/pendrive.htm

Every single one of those methods boots to a C prompt. That is not
literally like a windows xp cd. Infact, it is not at all. It is
making the usb stick like a Win9X boot disk. With that win9x boot
disk`s boot record and system files.

 

[jameshanley39]

By "usb keys" I take it you mean Data Pen, Flash drive, USB drive?
getting so many names now for THAT little item. What exactly are you
trying to acheive here? You got boot probs.......on what?? Kinda
rambling a bit from dos to CDROM boot record? Are you asking or
telling? Can't quite tell here. Sorry.

asking something and telling something, to give some background to
from where I derived the concepts I speak of.

By the way...
What is the practical difference between these things you mention..
"Data Pen, Flash drive, USB drive"
From google images, they all look like usb keys to me. The third
potentially referring to an actual hdd. "data pen" sounds like a
marketting term.

Do they all boot the same way anyway?

 

[Ken Maltby]

On Dec 18, 3:17 am, "(e-mail address removed)"
<snip>


I am asking if it is possible to LITERALLY - without workarounds -

Example-
Boot a USB key like a win xp setup cd

For example
install windows from a USB key. Restart the computer and have it boot
straight into the windows setup. From the usb key. Instead of from a
CD.

This is not an easy question to answer.

It is an interesting one though.

How about if you checked into the procedures they
use to make Linux run from a bootable USB Flash
Drive ( I'm no Linux supporter myself.) Try a Google:
"linux on a USB flash drive"

Since some of these are intended to allow you to
run Linux in a Windows PC environment you may
find a way to get what you are asking for. ( It could
be as easy as substituting what you want to run, for
the Linux OS files, in the process described.)

http://syslinux.zytor.com/index.php

http://syslinux.zytor.com/memdisk.php

Luck;
Ken

 

[sandy58]

asking something and telling something, to give some background to
from where I derived the concepts I speak of.

By the way...
What is the practical difference between these things you mention..
"Data Pen, Flash drive, USB drive"
From google images, they all look like usb keys to me. The third
potentially referring to an actual hdd. "data pen" sounds like a
marketting term.

Do they all boot the same way anyway?

They are all the same to me. It's just that "usb keys" is another name
to put on the list. :-(

 

[kony]

On Dec 18, 3:17 am, "(e-mail address removed)"
<snip>


I am asking if it is possible to LITERALLY - without workarounds -

Example-
Boot a USB key like a win xp setup cd

For example
install windows from a USB key. Restart the computer and have it boot
straight into the windows setup. From the usb key. Instead of from a
CD.

This is not an easy question to answer.

Have you tried making the USB key DOS-bootable, FAT/FAT16
like the HP tool will do, then putting on it:

himem.sys
smartdrv.exe
config.sys containing the line:
device=himem.sys
autoexec.bat containing the lines:
smartdrv.exe
\WinXp\I386\Winnt.exe

Then copying the contents of the WinXP CD (or at least the
I386 folder on it) to a folder on the USB key named "WinXP"?

Personally, I prefer omitting the line
"\WinXp\I386\Winnt.exe" in autoexect.bat, so the boot stops
short of starting the installation. That way, you can
choose to type that line at the command prompt to start the
windows installation, or instead run something else you've
also copied to the USB key like some kind of utility.

Note that to run something like memtest86+ you may want to
first rename config.sys and autoexec.bat to config.bak and
autoexec.bak, then reboot so you don't have smartdrive and
the memory manager running... then just rename them back to
..sys and .bat when you're done. Of course you could just
write a batch file to do it instead if you like.

I also like to have this setup for a bootable CF card on an
IDE adapter for systems that won't boot USB keys or don't
have an optical drive.

 

[jameshanley39]

Have you tried making the USB key DOS-bootable, FAT/FAT16
like the HP tool will do, then putting on it:

<snip>

I explicitly wrote a respone to John McGaw saying I am not asking how
to do that.

The idea of the line in autoexec.bat is interesting, but not what I
was asking.

 

[kony]

<snip>

I explicitly wrote a respone to John McGaw saying I am not asking how
to do that.

The idea of the line in autoexec.bat is interesting, but not what I
was asking.

Ok, the answer is yes it's possible to put it on the USB
key, but that doesn't mean your USB key is now a CDROM, so
don't expect it to boot.

http://www.raymond.cc/blog/archives/2007/10/16/how-to-make-a-usb-flash-drive-bootable/

 

[jameshanley39]

I explicitly wrote a respone to John McGaw saying I am not asking how
to do that.

The idea of the line in autoexec.bat is interesting, but not what I
was asking.

Ok, the answer is yes it's possible to put it on the USB
key, but [it will not boot]

interesting. I had tried Bart`s mkbt

C:\crp\mkbt20>mkbt -c g: blah.bin
* Copy bootsector mode (-c)
Drive G: not supported, only floppy drives are supported

I figured it was not supported..

I did not realise that Bart, the self promoting more technical twin of
mr bootdisk.com, had decided to play policeman..

-x Expert mode (do not check drive A or B only)
USE WITH CAUTION!

useful

that doesn't mean your USB key is now a CDROM, so
don't expect it to boot.

http://www.raymond.cc/blog/archives/2007/10/16/how-to-make-a-usb-flas...-

well , I was not planning to tell the computer to boot from USB CDROM,
and stick a USB stick in there.

note- plugging a usb key into an ide port by abusing a usb-ide adaptor
- using it backwards, and with an F-F(female both ends) usb gender
changer - won`t work, cannot even feed power to the usb stick like
that!

But it should be possible in theory, to convert the el torito cd boot
record (2048 bytes?) into a usb one (512 bytes?) so that the usb key
boots like a usb key but doing what a cd would do with the
corresponding boot record.

note- in first post I said 2048KB and 512KB. That is certainly wrong!
No K.