Intel graphics driver not so open source after all

[Garrot]

Plasme will burn it
LCD should work.

See my other post in this thread. 4:3 TV image has burnt lines into my
HDTV LCD. They are starting to fade now as I force the TV to only use
16:9. Not a happy camper though.

 

[Garrot]

Burn in nothing?

No, it might burn in the edges of the 4:3 image as has happened on my
HDTV LCD. Yes, LCD and not Plasma.

 

[Garrot]

Even LCD has some 'burn in', but it seems to go away after some time,
or after displaying white for some time, depends on the monitor manufacturer.

Yes, I've been using a prog that flashes the screen between RGB and B&W
for hours to try and get rid of the burn in I have. Tried just white
overnight but it is still there, fading though. The Starfield
screensaver is supposed to help with burn in too.

 

[Garrot]

With LCD (and DLP, too), burn-in isn't an issue.

It can be an issue with LCD too.

http://www.behardware.com/articles/615-1/lcds-with-persistent-images.html

 

[YKhan]

One nice thing about a widescreen LCD is that a 4:3 signal carrying
letterboxed content (which is becoming more and more common) can be zoomed
to fill the screen without distortion. Actual 4:3 content can be shown
as-is without distortion and without burn-in. For true widescreen content
(most HDTV and DVD), having a wide screen kicks ass.

Actually that can be done with most HDTVs, not just LCD. It can be done
with back-projection too. A few friends have something called "theatre
wide" or "panorama" mode, which is something that stretches 4:3 images
to fill in the whole 16:9 screen, but it does it in a very clever way,
it only stretches the images at side edges of the view, leaving the
centre of the image unstretched. This fools the eye into thinking that
aspect ratios have been preserved. But only the aspect ratios of stuff
in the centre are truly preserved. Nobody really cares about the images
at the edges.

Yousuf Khan

 

[Jan Panteltje]

They have every opportunity to read
through the specs before they whip out the credit card. They fail to
do due diligence? Too bad.

Well, not exactly in my view.
For example I needed a new cellphone, now I am in a low signal area
(far away from the nearest cellphone tower), and I have several of these,
only one of these worked indoors however (Siemens).
So models have changed, and I _tried_ a search for _sensitivity_ online,
now that is normally measured in micro volts, or maybe dB or whatever,
but you will only find features (like camera etc), not any meaningful
technical data .
Anyways I bought a Nokia now that does work (better), shop was helpful
to let me try it out.
With TV the same thing, there exists (in Europe) such a thing as 'HD ready'
and while the true HD format is DVB-S2 at 1920x1080 a HD ready set may be
1200xsomething, perhaps supports no DVB-S2, only DVB-S.
Then there is the issue of HDMI, DVI inputs / outputs, for a non-technical
person no way to understand it all! And what cards or crypto systems it will
accept.. and even those things are in motion.
The salesperson will want to get rid of any 'HD ready' stuff, so if
you have some trust in them, then you will have to upgrade in a year.
You cannot blame that on the consumer, it is _industry_ who has lost
_all_ respect for the consumer, standards last only a few years....
You _have_ to upgrade every 4 years....
At a 2 digit growth rate required by the shareholders, tricks must be
invented to have you buy new stuff, no matter what, kill all analog,,
digital radio too..... Consumer has no choice, do not blame them.

 

[Robert Redelmeier]

What bothers me about this whole HDTV thing is the content delivery:
I hate those bloody great STBs, the content deliverers are dragging their
feet on channel cards and the industry is still trying to sell us HDTVs
& recorders without channel card slots... standardisation? ... not
from where I'm looking! The whole thing is a mess with the consumer
in the middle... getting bilked.

Agreed on the mess, but I'm searching more for causes. HDTV
uptake in the US has been dismal to the FCC's and others chagrin.
Mostly due to the scarcity of decode-tuners ("HDTV Ready").

Why weren't these soldered in? Are the decode components that
expensive? Or is there some outsided [submarine patent] royalty?

-- Robert

 

[Keith]

Agreed on the mess, but I'm searching more for causes. HDTV
uptake in the US has been dismal to the FCC's and others chagrin.
Mostly due to the scarcity of decode-tuners ("HDTV Ready").

I think it' s mostly because people don't see a need for HD. It's
mostly a yawner.

Why weren't these soldered in? Are the decode components that
expensive? Or is there some outsided [submarine patent] royalty?

Keep up margins; disguise the true price?

 

[Robert Redelmeier]

(e-mail address removed) says...

I think it' s mostly because people don't see a need for HD.
It's mostly a yawner.

Certainly possible, although afficionados ("golden eyes"?) will tell
you otherwise. I have been very pleasantly surprised at how good
NTSC can look even at only 525 lines. The key is feeding it
proper signal -- SVideo or RGBcomp from a DVD player.

Why weren't these soldered in? Are the decode components that
expensive? Or is there some outsided [submarine patent] royalty?

Keep up margins; disguise the true price?

Maybe, but I thought of another possibility: apparently HDTV off-the-air
doesn't work, even in urban areas. Xmit power is too low, so antenna
requirements are significant. Cable monopolies love this (did they
influence the FCC?) because it makes them the conduit of HDTV and they
don't face competition from broadcast. Setmakers have a big customer
service/returns problem if they include tuners that most consumers
cannot make work with simple indoor antennae. So they leave them off.

-- Robert

 

[Keith]

Certainly possible, although afficionados ("golden eyes"?) will tell
you otherwise.

Sure, audiophools tell you that you need MonsterCable and gold RCA
connectors too.

I have been very pleasantly surprised at how good
NTSC can look even at only 525 lines. The key is feeding it
proper signal -- SVideo or RGBcomp from a DVD player.

Sure. I've never used RGBComp, though my receiver has the switching
at least some inputs, but SVideo makes a big difference. At some
point though, the difference isn't worth the extra expense. Then
there's the content problem.

Why weren't these soldered in? Are the decode components that
expensive? Or is there some outsided [submarine patent] royalty?

Keep up margins; disguise the true price?

Maybe, but I thought of another possibility: apparently HDTV off-the-air
doesn't work, even in urban areas. Xmit power is too low, so antenna
requirements are significant.

Dunno, it seems to be alright in the Boston area. At least the TVs
in the BestBuy down there looked goo with the OTA signal.

Cable monopolies love this (did they
influence the FCC?) because it makes them the conduit of HDTV and they
don't face competition from broadcast. Setmakers have a big customer
service/returns problem if they include tuners that most consumers
cannot make work with simple indoor antennae. So they leave them off.

Oh, *Indoor* antenna. We can't get anything with any sort of
indoor antenna anyway. Actually, I think OTA is almost dead for
reasons other than HD. People really don't want a huge, expensive,
ugly outdoor antenna but do want a clear picture and a gazillion
channels. ...and have the money to pay for it.

 

[Jan Panteltje]

Certainly possible, although afficionados ("golden eyes"?) will tell
you otherwise.

Sure, audiophools tell you that you need MonsterCable and gold RCA
connectors too.

I have been very pleasantly surprised at how good
NTSC can look even at only 525 lines. The key is feeding it
proper signal -- SVideo or RGBcomp from a DVD player.

Sure. I've never used RGBComp, though my receiver has the switching
at least some inputs, but SVideo makes a big difference. At some
point though, the difference isn't worth the extra expense. Then
there's the content problem.

Why weren't these soldered in? Are the decode components that
expensive? Or is there some outsided [submarine patent] royalty?

Keep up margins; disguise the true price?

Maybe, but I thought of another possibility: apparently HDTV off-the-air
doesn't work, even in urban areas. Xmit power is too low, so antenna
requirements are significant.

Dunno, it seems to be alright in the Boston area. At least the TVs
in the BestBuy down there looked goo with the OTA signal.

Cable monopolies love this (did they
influence the FCC?) because it makes them the conduit of HDTV and they
don't face competition from broadcast. Setmakers have a big customer
service/returns problem if they include tuners that most consumers
cannot make work with simple indoor antennae. So they leave them off.

Oh, *Indoor* antenna. We can't get anything with any sort of
indoor antenna anyway. Actually, I think OTA is almost dead for
reasons other than HD. People really don't want a huge, expensive,
ugly outdoor antenna but do want a clear picture and a gazillion
channels. ...and have the money to pay for it.

It is satellite here where I live.
There are always political fights going on what the cable should carry,
OTA only a few stations.. I have a satellite dish with a motor that I can
turn, there are already a _lot_ of HDTV 'tests' going on.
Well, 'tests' BBC sends HD experimental over satellite, the French, the
Germans, all receivable for free (except some German channels that need a
card).
But what it comes down to: If I want to watch CNN I can get it on satellite,
if I want Russia Today I can get it on satellite, if I want China CCTV4:
satellite, on my PC I only have to select it (PCI card) it steers the dish
automatically, the French.. any country almost including relayed South
American stations.
No political manoeuvring can black out my CNN
And believe me they try here.
One neighbour has cable, pays a lot each month, has fewer channels and less
choice....
Yes a dish is big, but it is behind the house against the wall, not such a
big deal.
Very bad weather (like thunderstorms) can interrupt the signal, but that is
the only negative point I can think of.
But cable stations relaying some of these programs have big dishes themselves
that can also experience a loss of signal.
But I am in Europe, has not US a similar service? I'd say
get a sat dish

http://en.kingofsat.net/hdtv.php
Shows the satellite HDTV available here now....

 

[Robert Redelmeier]

(e-mail address removed) says...

Dunno, it seems to be alright in the Boston area. At least
the TVs in the BestBuy down there looked goo with the OTA signal.

I wouldn't doubt it. Considerable effort is made to ensure
sales displays are as good as possible.

Oh, *Indoor* antenna. We can't get anything with any sort of
indoor antenna anyway.

Ah, but you're in the sticks. I'm a a major metro, and 6ft of
screened coax gives me a perfect NTSC picture on some channels,
some ghosting on others, and light snow on further stations.
Rabbit ears behind the set are more than adequate.

Actually, I think OTA is almost dead for reasons other
than HD. People really don't want a huge, expensive,
ugly outdoor antenna but do want a clear picture and a
gazillion channels. ...and have the money to pay for it.

.... which brings us back to the [dismal] content problem.
IMHO None of the content is worth paying for! The cable-only
channels are better, but not worth the full cost vs OTA.
The most I'd do is an attic antenna with power amplifier to
get rid of passive splitters.

-- Robert

 

[chrisv]

(e-mail address removed) says...

Sure, audiophools tell you that you need MonsterCable and gold RCA
connectors too.

Do you really think that's an honest analogy? HDTV's picture is
clearly, undisputably, significantly better than NTSC's. Particularly
on large displays, which really id HDTV's raison d'être.

Whether it's worst the cost to watch prime-time crap in HDTV is
another matter, of course...

DVD's are only properly-served on a widescreen display, in which case
you're usually talking about a HDTV-compatible display.

$50 at Radio Shack. Works for me.

 

[George Macdonald]

That's the way I am buying. Places like Pricewatch or Nextag can find
you the same gadget for about 30% less, and delivery charge is often
less than sales tax that you avoid online. But it helps to see the
thing in the store to "feel" it. BTW, some stores sometimes match
online price when you bring the printout - helpful when the thing is
small enough to fit in the car, and you need it *now*.

"The whole thing is a mess" - can't agree more.
"consumer in the middle...getting bilked." - respectfully disagree.
Maybe in N.Korea, Cuba, and few other places the customers are (or at
some point will be) required to acquire the sets to see Beloved Leader
Kim / Comrade Fidel / Supreme Bozo in full glory of HD. In all other
parts of the world the consumers part with their money willfully
because they want to keep up with the Joneses or for whatever reason
think 42" Plasma is a must-have. They have every opportunity to read
through the specs before they whip out the credit card. They fail to
do due diligence? Too bad.

Depends how you look at it and where you live. With my old "analog" cable
service, I had a splitter which went to my TV and my VHS; I could watch any
channel and record from any another, *except* if I wanted to watch a
premium channel which had to go through the descrambler/tuner/recorder.
Now with this half-assed Moto STB, half the channels are analog, half are
digital and I have to use the cable cos. tuner which has a delay up to 1sec
or so to switch channels. Oh and all the fancy tuning features of my TV,
e.g. picture-in-picture, are just so much wasted electronics and my wasted
$$.

On top of all that, a coupla weeks after getting the new cable company's
STB, the tuner on my (premium) Sony[grrrr] VHS recorder went gaga... fault
of the STB's FM modulator??<shrug>... which doesn't do stereo sound. Now,
obviously I need to get a better TV with digital tuning but damned if I'm
going into that quagmire with the state things are in... nor am I going to
buy a DVD recorder which won't fit my bill.

All I want to be able to do is something which approaches what I could do
with my old setup with analog cable service but I just don't see how...
progress?... not from my angle. Whether you want it or not, analog is
going away in a year or two - the content providers see it as a way to
change all the rules so they can "provide" "services" for extra $$ just
like the Telcos. I feel bilked and I don't see anybody stepping up to
supply what I want.

 

[George Macdonald]

What bothers me about this whole HDTV thing is the content delivery:
I hate those bloody great STBs, the content deliverers are dragging their
feet on channel cards and the industry is still trying to sell us HDTVs
& recorders without channel card slots... standardisation? ... not
from where I'm looking! The whole thing is a mess with the consumer
in the middle... getting bilked.

Agreed on the mess, but I'm searching more for causes. HDTV
uptake in the US has been dismal to the FCC's and others chagrin.
Mostly due to the scarcity of decode-tuners ("HDTV Ready").

Why weren't these soldered in? Are the decode components that
expensive? Or is there some outsided [submarine patent] royalty?

Well, partly due to all the "mess" and confusion I haven't delved into it
too deeply but one thing I haven't found out yet is: are the cable
companies supposed (compelled) to supply a digital signal which is
compatible with a digital OTA tuner? Even if that were the case, the
current situation, here and I believe elsewhere, is that the cable company
supplies a mix of analog (up to channel 80) and digital channels so their
STB is kinda essential to get umm, easy access.

Our initial cable "digital" offering did not include digital versions of
the analog channels but that is *slowly* being implemented bit by bit. Of
course if you want the local digital channels, they want extra $$. On top
of that the local broadcasters dragged their feet and really wanted to
divide up the digital bandwidth into multiple non-HD channels - dunno if
that has been settled yet?? My impression is that all the content
providers are still haggling over what & how to provide with the goal of
converting such a watershed change into max $$... and min "service". AFAIK
our cable co. does not have channel cards and I shudder to think what they
would charge for them anyway.

It seems to me that without *strong* regulation -- not what we get from the
current FCC -- we have a situation where every cable STB works
differently, e.g. the *fairly* common 80 analog channels with piecemeal
extensions to digital, and when you add in OTA and satellite, the receiver
mfrs have not had a single target for a tuning set up. Why do I get the
feeling I'm being prepared to bend over?

 

[nobody]

That's the way I am buying. Places like Pricewatch or Nextag can find
you the same gadget for about 30% less, and delivery charge is often
less than sales tax that you avoid online. But it helps to see the
thing in the store to "feel" it. BTW, some stores sometimes match
online price when you bring the printout - helpful when the thing is
small enough to fit in the car, and you need it *now*.

"The whole thing is a mess" - can't agree more.
"consumer in the middle...getting bilked." - respectfully disagree.
Maybe in N.Korea, Cuba, and few other places the customers are (or at
some point will be) required to acquire the sets to see Beloved Leader
Kim / Comrade Fidel / Supreme Bozo in full glory of HD. In all other
parts of the world the consumers part with their money willfully
because they want to keep up with the Joneses or for whatever reason
think 42" Plasma is a must-have. They have every opportunity to read
through the specs before they whip out the credit card. They fail to
do due diligence? Too bad.

Depends how you look at it and where you live. With my old "analog" cable
service, I had a splitter which went to my TV and my VHS; I could watch any
channel and record from any another, *except* if I wanted to watch a
premium channel which had to go through the descrambler/tuner/recorder.
Now with this half-assed Moto STB, half the channels are analog, half are
digital and I have to use the cable cos. tuner which has a delay up to 1sec
or so to switch channels. Oh and all the fancy tuning features of my TV,
e.g. picture-in-picture, are just so much wasted electronics and my wasted
$$.

On top of all that, a coupla weeks after getting the new cable company's
STB, the tuner on my (premium) Sony[grrrr] VHS recorder went gaga... fault
of the STB's FM modulator??<shrug>... which doesn't do stereo sound. Now,

What else did you expect? They are *the cable company!*

obviously I need to get a better TV with digital tuning but damned if I'm
going into that quagmire with the state things are in... nor am I going to
buy a DVD recorder which won't fit my bill.

All I want to be able to do is something which approaches what I could do
with my old setup with analog cable service but I just don't see how...
progress?... not from my angle. Whether you want it or not, analog is
going away in a year or two - the content providers see it as a way to
change all the rules so they can "provide" "services" for extra $$ just
like the Telcos. I feel bilked and I don't see anybody stepping up to
supply what I want.

Because of what they did to you (or didn't for your money what's
expected of them) IMHO you shouldn't have any limitations or
reservations of moral nature regarding the "3rd party cable
descrambler". To put it simply, they screwed you - go screw them. As
for the descrambler, it should be relatively easy to mailorder - there
were tons of offers in my mailbox before I applied spam filters.

As for me, I couldn't care less. I don't have cable, nor satellite.
My kids watch only pre-screened DVDs, so we can be sure they don't see
any inappropriate stuff, especially "politically correct" brainwashing
or kiddie-oriented ads. Also I noticed that movies appear on eDonkey
waaay sooner than in DVD stores or on cable ;-)

NNN

 

[Del Cecchi]

So the guy who sells them suffers from flashing 12:00 syndrome? And
then they have the nerve to complain that people only look and then buy
on-line!

What bothers me about this whole HDTV thing is the content delivery: I
hate
those bloody great STBs, the content deliverers are dragging their feet
on
channel cards and the industry is still trying to sell us HDTVs &
recorders
without channel card slots... standardisation??... not from where I'm
looking! The whole thing is a mess with the consumer in the middle...
getting bilked.

My daughters widescreen phillips lcd has a button on the remote to switch
modes. I think there are 4 to choose from

 

[jack]

:
: Because of what they did to you (or didn't for your money
: what's expected of them) IMHO you shouldn't have any
: limitations or reservations of moral nature regarding the "3rd
: party cable descrambler". To put it simply, they screwed you
: - go screw them. As for the descrambler, it should be
: relatively easy to mailorder - there were tons of offers in my
: mailbox before I applied spam filters.

Right-on brother, right on!!

: As for me, I couldn't care less. I don't have cable, nor
: satellite. My kids watch only pre-screened DVDs, so we can be
: sure they don't see any inappropriate stuff, especially
: "politically correct" brainwashing or kiddie-oriented ads.
: Also I noticed that movies appear on eDonkey waaay sooner than
: in DVD stores or on cable ;-)

I agree with **every single** word in this last paragraph. Man, you must be
psychic!! ;-)

j.

 

[jack]

<snip>

: Because of what they did to you (or didn't for your money
: what's expected of them) IMHO you shouldn't have any
: limitations or reservations of moral nature regarding the "3rd
: party cable descrambler". To put it simply, they screwed you
: - go screw them. As for the descrambler, it should be
: relatively easy to mailorder - there were tons of offers in my
: mailbox before I applied spam filters.

Right-on brother, right-on!!

: As for me, I couldn't care less. I don't have cable, nor
: satellite. My kids watch only pre-screened DVDs, so we can be
: sure they don't see any inappropriate stuff, especially
: "politically correct" brainwashing or kiddie-oriented ads.
: Also I noticed that movies appear on eDonkey waaay sooner than
: in DVD stores or on cable ;-)

I agree with *every single* word in this last paragraph. Man, you must be
psychic!! ;-)

j.

 

[Robert Redelmeier]

Well, partly due to all the "mess" and confusion I haven't
delved into it too deeply but one thing I haven't found out
yet is: are the cable companies supposed (compelled) to supply
a digital signal which is compatible with a digital OTA tuner?

AFAIK, the cables companies are almost totally deregulated in the
US, and aren't compelled to do anything, especially not about STB.
Cablecos would whine that removes their ability to innovate.

Even if that were the case, the current situation, here and I
believe elsewhere, is that the cable company supplies a mix of
analog (up to channel 80) and digital channels so their STB is
kinda essential to get umm, easy access.

Precisely. Part of the lock-in. But not the essential part.
They _do_ provide the signals. Decoding them is a detail. They
have local monopolies, and work hard to make them unregulateable
by differentiating service.

On top of that the local broadcasters dragged their feet and
really wanted to divide up the digital bandwidth into multiple
non-HD channels - dunno if that has been settled yet??

I would hope so. The FCC is plenty unhappy that their HDTV plans
had to be delayed. They want to shut down NTSC broadcast and
reallocate spectrum. They cannot so long as many people continue
on it. I'm not sure that spectrum still as valuable as it once was.

My impression is that all the content providers are still
haggling over what & how to provide with the goal of converting
such a watershed change into max $$... and min "service".

Yes, the stakes are fairly high, so special interests are out in full
force buying legislators, trying to override the public interest.
Few seem to recognize the public will not relinquish broadcast without
strong compelling alternatives. They fail the reality-check that
however much they pay, Congress knows they will lose reelection if
they take away something that people watch 3+hrs [avg] a day.

Why do I get the feeling I'm being prepared to bend over?

Because it's true? Cable has segmented the viewing market
into have/have-not and priced accordingly. Cablecos do further
segmentation [=revenue extraction] with "premium" channels.

I refuse to play this game.

-- Robert