How to prevent HD failure above 14,000 feet

[Peter]

I am a PPL/IR private pilot, running various GPS apps (notably
Jeppesen Flitedeck) on a Motion LS800 tablet PC.

The hard drive packs up at around 14,000 feet, crashing the unit.

Flash alternatives (I believe it is a 1.8" HD inside) are extremely
costly, around USD 1000 for 8GB, and I wonder how successful it would
be to put in a 4GB SD card (for which there is a slot), put all maps
on that, etc.

The problem is that Windoze itself accesses various bits of the HD
anyway, and does anyone know which bits, and can they be moved to the
SD card?

Has anyone tried this?

I reckon that, as a minimum, one would need to move the windoze
swapfile, and registry, to the SD card.

Once upon a time I had to run
a program called Filemon to monitor disk accesses, to see why an auto
power-down SCSI HD would keep powering back up again, and I found a
registry access every 1 second or so, plus an access (for no apparent
reason) to every fixed HD every few minutes. This was on NT4 though.
XP should be different otherwise a HD auto-power-down would never work
on a laptop or a tablet.

Any suggestions for solutions?


Peter.

 

[Carey Frisch [MVP]]

Sorry, Microsoft does not have an operating system called "Windoze".

 

[Gary]

You need to give the hard drive O2 or use a pressurized cabin.

 

[Guest]

You cannot put the Swapfile and Registry on a Secure Digital (SD)
card for it would be useless there. Your GPS very likely needs to
be replaced with an Aviation Magellan unit which is sealed for
different altitudes.
--
XP - WNP
Today is the first day of the
rest of your life.
If you find this response helpful,
rate it below.

 

[Yves Leclerc]

CompactFlash cards can be used on IDE ports and Windows Embedded, I believe?

 

[Lem]

I am a PPL/IR private pilot, running various GPS apps (notably
Jeppesen Flitedeck) on a Motion LS800 tablet PC.

The hard drive packs up at around 14,000 feet, crashing the unit.

Flash alternatives (I believe it is a 1.8" HD inside) are extremely
costly, around USD 1000 for 8GB, and I wonder how successful it would
be to put in a 4GB SD card (for which there is a slot), put all maps
on that, etc.

The problem is that Windoze itself accesses various bits of the HD
anyway, and does anyone know which bits, and can they be moved to the
SD card?

Has anyone tried this?

I reckon that, as a minimum, one would need to move the windoze
swapfile, and registry, to the SD card.

Once upon a time I had to run
a program called Filemon to monitor disk accesses, to see why an auto
power-down SCSI HD would keep powering back up again, and I found a
registry access every 1 second or so, plus an access (for no apparent
reason) to every fixed HD every few minutes. This was on NT4 though.
XP should be different otherwise a HD auto-power-down would never work
on a laptop or a tablet.

Any suggestions for solutions?


Peter.

I don't know what your budget is, but you might want to look in
so-called "ruggized" laptops. The Panasonic Toughbook series, for
example, claims to be certified to 15,000 feet:

The Altitude test was performed in accordance with MIL-STD-810F, Method
500.4, Procedure I (Storage) and II (Operation). The altitude level used
for both procedures was 15,000 feet (highest equivalent altitude given
within MIL-STD-810F for cargo pressures of military aircraft).

http://www.panasonic.com/business/toughbook/df_test.asp#14
http://www.panasonic.com/business/toughbook/toughbooks_home.asp

Here's more generic page:
http://www.infohq.com/Computer/ruggedized-notebooks.htm

 

[P. Johnson]

Sorry, Microsoft does not have an operating system called "Windoze".

That would be a common colloquialism for Windows. I'm surprised someone who
can manage MVP status isn't aware that the term is popular even on
Microsoft's staff...

 

[Bruce Chambers]

That would be a common colloquialism for Windows.

No, it's actually a common misspelling used by members of the Church of
Linux.


--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:



They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. -Benjamin Franklin

Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. -Bertrand Russell

 

[Bruce Chambers]

I am a PPL/IR private pilot, running various GPS apps (notably
Jeppesen Flitedeck) on a Motion LS800 tablet PC.

The hard drive packs up at around 14,000 feet, crashing the unit.

Certainly not a Windows issue. Contact the maker of the computer for a
replacement hard drive.


--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:



They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. -Benjamin Franklin

Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. -Bertrand Russell

 

[over]

Certainly not a Windows issue. Contact the maker of the computer
for a
replacement hard drive.

Quite likely not covered by warranty. Check the environmental limits
stated for the drive - most are rated only to about 10000 feet while
operating, and about 40000 feet while not operating.
Remember that the heads actually "fly" above the hard disk surface on an
air film - as a pilot, one should be able to work out the affect of the
air density decrease at higher altitudes.
Also, as one ascends/descends, air moves out/in through a breather hole
on the drive, possibly carrying dust with it. There is a filter, but
this still could shorten the drive life.

Suggestion: you may be able to replace the drive with a solid state (i.e.
flash memory) drive.

 

[Nevermind]

Quite likely not covered by warranty. Check the environmental limits
stated for the drive - most are rated only to about 10000 feet while
operating, and about 40000 feet while not operating.
Remember that the heads actually "fly" above the hard disk surface on an
air film - as a pilot, one should be able to work out the affect of the
air density decrease at higher altitudes.
Also, as one ascends/descends, air moves out/in through a breather hole
on the drive, possibly carrying dust with it. There is a filter, but
this still could shorten the drive life.

Suggestion: you may be able to replace the drive with a solid state (i.e.
flash memory) drive.

I thought that hard drives were sealed, so that dirt could not get in.

 

[Weatherlawyer]

I thought that hard drives were sealed, so that dirt could not get in.

In which case the box is expanding with height and thus pulling the
internals awry. Would sitting it in another box help?

 

[P. Johnson]

No, it's actually a common misspelling used by members of the Church of
Linux.

I'm pretty sure the OS/2 guys at Microsoft and IBM came up with it first,
but you can go ahead believing what you want to.

 

[Peter]

I don't know what your budget is, but you might want to look in
so-called "ruggized" laptops. The Panasonic Toughbook series, for
example, claims to be certified to 15,000 feet:

The Altitude test was performed in accordance with MIL-STD-810F, Method
500.4, Procedure I (Storage) and II (Operation). The altitude level used
for both procedures was 15,000 feet (highest equivalent altitude given
within MIL-STD-810F for cargo pressures of military aircraft).

http://www.panasonic.com/business/toughbook/df_test.asp#14
http://www.panasonic.com/business/toughbook/toughbooks_home.asp

Here's more generic page:
http://www.infohq.com/Computer/ruggedized-notebooks.htm

Yes, there are some "high altitude" hard drives and these are probably
what is used in the Panasonic laptops.

It's clear the HD failure is due to loss of air pressure; it is
consistent enough. Hard drives are not sealed; they have a vent hole
with a filter in it.

That is why I am looking for a flash solution.

The ideal would be a 1.8" IDE flash, 16GB or (at a push) 8GB. They do
exist but I haven't found anywhere I can actually buy one from. And
yes they aren't cheap.

2.5" is a lot easier; there is more choice and there are also
IDE-compactflash adapters which enable you to make your own flash IDE
drive with a CF cartridge; these are available up to 8GB now. But this
tablet computer uses 1.8" IDE...

I do need something that will work to 20,000 feet.

Like the joke (elsewhere in the thread) about feeding oxygen to the
hard drive

 

[Edwin vMierlo]

Peter,

if you are pushing equipment to work in extreme environments, and 15000 -
20000 ft is extreme in my book
then you are probably pushing the price tag as well.... comes with the
territory

 

[Alias~-]

Sorry, Microsoft does not have an operating system called "Windoze".

Educate yourself, Carey:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/nickname

Alias

 

[Alias~-]

That would be a common colloquialism for Windows. I'm surprised someone who
can manage MVP status isn't aware that the term is popular even on
Microsoft's staff...

I guess you haven't seen many of Carey's posts.

Alias

 

[Peter]

if you are pushing equipment to work in extreme environments, and 15000 -
20000 ft is extreme in my book
then you are probably pushing the price tag as well.... comes with the
territory

Well, if you can suggest a *solution* I can decide on the price.
Currently, I don't have a *solution* at any price.

 

[Edwin vMierlo]

Peter,

as others already have posted that an alternative could be solid state, e.g.
flash.

Other than that, as you have very specific requirements,
you could actually contact an OEM/manufacturer and see
if they have a solutions for you, or can build a solution for you.

Hardisk is probably only your first problem, next one will be cooling,
as the airpressure is lower, you might want to take that into account as
well.
just to ensure your components (cpu/bridge/graphics/etc) are not
overheating.

 

[Leythos]

Hardisk is probably only your first problem, next one will be cooling,
as the airpressure is lower, you might want to take that into account as
well.

When I was in Mexico City with some electronic systems, not designed for
Mexico City altitude, we had a lot of cooling problems, took me days to
figure out that it was the cooling that was causing the problems.