How is the Windows Vista Deframent Tool?

[piclistguy]

I plan on getting my first Windows Vista laptop in a few weeks.
Since I am on the road often and don't leave my laptop idle for long,
I need a defrag tool that works transparently in the background while
I am using the machine.
I am wondering what people think of the included deframentation tool
in Windows Vista or if a 3rd party application like Diskeeper is
necessary for my needs.

 

[Mike Brannigan]

I plan on getting my first Windows Vista laptop in a few weeks.
Since I am on the road often and don't leave my laptop idle for long,
I need a defrag tool that works transparently in the background while
I am using the machine.
I am wondering what people think of the included deframentation tool
in Windows Vista or if a 3rd party application like Diskeeper is
necessary for my needs.

If you want it to work in the background then something like Diskeeper is
what you need.
The default setting on vista of one defrag at 1am on a Wednesday may not
meet your needs.

 

[Steve Thackery]

The default setting on vista of one defrag at 1am on a Wednesday may not

meet your needs.

Well, I don't really agree with Mike. 1am is just a scheduled start time.
The defrag runs as soon as possible after that if it's switched off at the
time. It runs for as long as necessary, at the lowest CPU priority and the
lowest I/O priority.

In fact, the Vista defrag tool is extremely gentle in terms of CPU, I/O and
memory loading. Apart from some audible disk activity you wouldn't know
it's running.

I strongly recommend that the OP forgets about defragging. Vista will look
after it just fine, quietly and effectively.

Only if you want to watch coloured blocks moving around on the screen should
you buy a third party tool.

Finally, one important warning: some (most??) third party defraggers
interfere with the file placement optimisation that Vista does as part of
its start up optimisation. They could actually make your start up slower.
For that reason, I recommend avoiding them.

See how you go with the built-in one. If you aren't happy, then would be
the time to think about the alternatives. Just remember the caveats.

SteveT

 

[piclistguy]

Steve, thanks for your detailed response.
You wrote
"I strongly recommend that the OP forgets about defragging. Vista
will look
after it just fine, quietly and effectively. "

Will it work effectively when the laptop is in use. Something ANY
defrag tool would have trouble with. This is my biggest concern. Again
with my situation, Vista will not be idle that much and I cant leave
my laptop on overnight (with my travel configuration).

 

[Mike Brannigan]

Well, I don't really agree with Mike. 1am is just a scheduled start time.
The defrag runs as soon as possible after that if it's switched off at the
time. It runs for as long as necessary, at the lowest CPU priority and
the lowest I/O priority.

In fact, the Vista defrag tool is extremely gentle in terms of CPU, I/O
and memory loading. Apart from some audible disk activity you wouldn't
know it's running.

I strongly recommend that the OP forgets about defragging. Vista will
look after it just fine, quietly and effectively.

Only if you want to watch coloured blocks moving around on the screen
should you buy a third party tool.

Finally, one important warning: some (most??) third party defraggers
interfere with the file placement optimisation that Vista does as part of
its start up optimisation. They could actually make your start up slower.
For that reason, I recommend avoiding them.

See how you go with the built-in one. If you aren't happy, then would be
the time to think about the alternatives. Just remember the caveats.

SteveT

Having worked with the Diskeeper tool for nearly 10 years (from the NT 3.x
variants right up to the latest Vista and Server 2008 versions) I have to
take issue with a couple of your points.

The UI for Diskeeper does not just display blocks moving around in fact the
latest invisi-tasking had no visible UI unless the end user wants to see it
and obviously has nothing better to do.
The processing behind Diskeeper not only runs at low priority but also
honours the interrupts in processing due to other higher priority disk
access by the OS or end user processes, so effectively can run continuously
in the background not even "stealing" CPU cycles bit just using genuine
moments of inactivity.
Diskeeper fully honours the disk layout changes by the OS as regards startup
time optimisations undertaken but will still perform where necessary and
optimal defrag on these files to ensure the fastest startup time possible
and pre fetching processing.

The major point here is that the built in defrag tools is a one shot deal
scheduled to run when you want or triggered manually by the end user
products such as Diskeeper can run continuously in the background not
impacting performance but increasing the disk and file IO of the device
without detriment to the ongoing use of the system.

 

[Mike Hall - MVP]

Steve, thanks for your detailed response.
You wrote
"I strongly recommend that the OP forgets about defragging. Vista
will look
after it just fine, quietly and effectively. "

Will it work effectively when the laptop is in use. Something ANY
defrag tool would have trouble with. This is my biggest concern. Again
with my situation, Vista will not be idle that much and I cant leave
my laptop on overnight (with my travel configuration).

Well, I don't really agree with Mike. 1am is just a scheduled start time.
The defrag runs as soon as possible after that if it's switched off at the
time. It runs for as long as necessary, at the lowest CPU priority and the
lowest I/O priority.

In fact, the Vista defrag tool is extremely gentle in terms of CPU, I/O
and
memory loading. Apart from some audible disk activity you wouldn't know
it's running.

I strongly recommend that the OP forgets about defragging. Vista will look
after it just fine, quietly and effectively.

Only if you want to watch coloured blocks moving around on the screen
should
you buy a third party tool.

Finally, one important warning: some (most??) third party defraggers
interfere with the file placement optimisation that Vista does as part of
its start up optimisation. They could actually make your start up slower.
For that reason, I recommend avoiding them.

See how you go with the built-in one. If you aren't happy, then would be
the time to think about the alternatives. Just remember the caveats.

SteveT

You should get Diskeeper 2008. You will hardly realize that it is installed,
let alone running..

--
Mike Hall - MVP
How to construct a good post..
http://dts-l.com/goodpost.htm
How to use the Microsoft Product Support Newsgroups..
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?pr=newswhelp&style=toc
Mike's Window - My Blog..
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/default.aspx

 

[Mike Brannigan]

Steve, thanks for your detailed response.
You wrote
"I strongly recommend that the OP forgets about defragging. Vista
will look
after it just fine, quietly and effectively. "

Will it work effectively when the laptop is in use. Something ANY
defrag tool would have trouble with. This is my biggest concern. Again
with my situation, Vista will not be idle that much and I cant leave
my laptop on overnight (with my travel configuration).



The built in tools will not deliver what you want as it is either a
scheduled run ort a manually triggered event. See my response to Steve for
more detail.
--
Mike Brannigan

Steve, thanks for your detailed response.
You wrote
"I strongly recommend that the OP forgets about defragging. Vista
will look
after it just fine, quietly and effectively. "

Will it work effectively when the laptop is in use. Something ANY
defrag tool would have trouble with. This is my biggest concern. Again
with my situation, Vista will not be idle that much and I cant leave
my laptop on overnight (with my travel configuration).

 

[Steve Thackery]

The major point here is that the built in defrag tools is a one shot deal

scheduled to run when you want or triggered manually by the end user
products such as Diskeeper can run continuously in the background not
impacting performance but increasing the disk and file IO of the device
without detriment to the ongoing use of the system.

You've said that a couple of times now, but I don't agree. Diskeeper is
indeed a fine product, and I used it all the time on my XP machines.
However, in Vista the built-in defragger *effectively* does run
continuously, in as much as it takes hours, sometimes days to run. It also
backs off in terms of CPU and I/O, just like Diskeeper.

Honestly, I use the Vista defrag on my laptop and it really is fine.

I repeat my advice to the OP - try the in-built one first, before committing
to spending your money on a third party solution.

SteveT

 

[cqui3]

You've said that a couple of times now, but I don't agree. Diskeeper is
indeed a fine product, and I used it all the time on my XP machines.
However, in Vista the built-in defragger *effectively* does run
continuously, in as much as it takes hours, sometimes days to run. It
also backs off in terms of CPU and I/O, just like Diskeeper.

Honestly, I use the Vista defrag on my laptop and it really is fine.

I repeat my advice to the OP - try the in-built one first, before
committing to spending your money on a third party solution.

SteveT

I may add that Diskeeper on XP always produced disk errors.
TheVista defragmenter does not.

 

[cheen]

If you are serious about computing and shift around lots of data all the
time get
another 3rd party defragmenter..

if you dont shift around lots of data, and leave your computer on all night
without using it
then the vista defrag will be good enough for you

 

[DevilsPGD]

In message <[email protected]> "cheen"

If you are serious about computing and shift around lots of data all the
time get
another 3rd party defragmenter..
Why?

if you dont shift around lots of data, and leave your computer on all night
without using it
then the vista defrag will be good enough for you

You don't need to leave your computer on overnight, Vista's scheduler
will start the defragmentation item at the next appropriate time if the
scheduled time is missed.

 

[DevilsPGD]

In message
<[email protected]>

Will it work effectively when the laptop is in use.

Actually, yes. Vista has a disk queuing system (similar to how multiple
applications can run at once, with different priorities), user initiated
read/writes will take priority over lower priority tasks such as
defragmenting, indexing, etc.

It's not perfect, but it's very functional, and makes background
defragmentation almost unnoticable.

Honestly, I'm not sure I'd notice it at all if it weren't for the
reverse-placebo effect -- I can see my disk light and notice when
something is going on, so even if I don't sense a difference in speed,
I'm on the lookout for anything resembling a pause or stutter.

 

[Bob Willard]

I plan on getting my first Windows Vista laptop in a few weeks.
Since I am on the road often and don't leave my laptop idle for long,
I need a defrag tool that works transparently in the background while
I am using the machine.
I am wondering what people think of the included deframentation tool
in Windows Vista or if a 3rd party application like Diskeeper is
necessary for my needs.

Given the huge gains in HD size and price, and the improvements in NTFS
over FATxx, defragging is no longer very important. So, I recommend
using the cheapest defragger: Vista's built-in tool.

 

[cheen]

its a low priority service.. if you actually work on your pc durring the day
as most people do.. lol
the computer will never be inactive for long enough for the defrag to kick
in and defrag the files especially if you are like me and have more than a
terrabyte of data shifting arround all the time...

gesh the people in here are thick

 

[forty-nine]

its a low priority service.. if you actually work on your pc durring the
day as most people do.. lol
the computer will never be inactive for long enough for the defrag to kick
in and defrag the files especially if you are like me and have more than a
terrabyte of data shifting arround all the time...

gesh the people in here are thick

defragment will run even while you use the PC.
Unless you have 100% cpu usage while you use it.

Talk about thick...

 

[On the Bridge]

you DOPE DORK MORON IDIOT FOOL

it will be a low priority service.. do you know what that means, bozo
brains?
have you actually studied the matter before blabbering nonsense?

You don't have to go 100% .. its stops far more easily..

and this means that if you have too much data being shifted around it will
never finish

Let me add that the vista DEFRAG is an INSULT to anyone intelligent and
computer literate,

don't worry that excludes you on both! Your not being insulted.. but let me
insult you once more

IDIOT!

 

[forty-nine]

you DOPE DORK MORON IDIOT FOOL

it will be a low priority service.. do you know what that means, bozo
brains?
have you actually studied the matter before blabbering nonsense?

You don't have to go 100% .. its stops far more easily..

and this means that if you have too much data being shifted around it will
never finish

Let me add that the vista DEFRAG is an INSULT to anyone intelligent and
computer literate,

don't worry that excludes you on both! Your not being insulted.. but let
me insult you once more

IDIOT!

Defrag does not need the machine to be "bone idle" to run.

I know...I've seen it run while using the PC.

I also use a low priority program called "Folding@Home"...it uses 50% of the
cpu even when I use the computer for other task.

You may wanna do some more research

 

[On the Bridge]

get lost twerp...

Lets see what will happen with crappy vista defrag when the having 4
terrabytes of HDD space will be common ..... and internet download speeds of
100 mb will be common..

this is very close.. I already have 2x1 terra and 24 mb download speed...

next year I will have 4 terra and 50 mb download speed...

 

[forty-nine]

get lost twerp...

Lets see what will happen with crappy vista defrag when the having 4
terrabytes of HDD space will be common ..... and internet download speeds
of 100 mb will be common..

this is very close.. I already have 2x1 terra and 24 mb download speed...

next year I will have 4 terra and 50 mb download speed...

Maybe if you had Vista, you would know something about it.

Course, you would also need access to money.

 

[On the Bridge]

get lost twerp...

I had preordered Vista before it was officially released..

I am one of the first people that had vista you ignorant POS

but long before that I had beta tested it even before it was called vista

I am posting from XP because of choice.. not out of lack of vista..