Home NAS question: NAS Suggestions for Dummies needed

[dg]

Should work fine, for protection against burglars, anyway.

Particularly with a discrete hardware NAS, as opposed to a dinosaur PC as a NAS.

And fires too, depending on the safe. Good safes have ratings for
temperature inside the safe vs. temp outside the safe for a specified period
of time. And luckily most fires don't reach those stated temps for periods
anywhere near the rating. Not quite an offsite backup but pretty good.

--Dan

 

[Rod Speed]

And fires too, depending on the safe.

Thats much more tricky. Flood too. Fire resistant safes, particularly
the sort of smaller safes that are practical for use in houses, get their
fire resistance by whats used to insulate them reacting to the fire.
The way they do that wouldnt be good for the NAS in that safe.

Good safes have ratings for temperature inside the
safe vs. temp outside the safe for a specified period
of time. And luckily most fires don't reach those
stated temps for periods anywhere near the rating.

Sure, particularly in domestic houses.

Not quite an offsite backup but pretty good.

Not really with fire protection, because of the way they get that.

 

[J. Clarke]

And fires too, depending on the safe. Good safes have ratings for
temperature inside the safe vs. temp outside the safe for a specified
period
of time. And luckily most fires don't reach those stated temps for
periods
anywhere near the rating. Not quite an offsite backup but pretty good.

That is of course, unless the NAS catches fire. While rare, electronic
devices do occasionally fail in this mode.

Further, most safes are designed to protect paper, not electronics--it's
quite possible for all the paper to have survived but the disk to be
completely wiped. It's important that a data-grade safe be used in this
scenario.

And I'm still a little puzzled about how a "discrete hardware NAS" is
different from "a dinosaur PC as a NAS". In case it has escaped your
notice, there are many low-power single board PCs out there, some of which
run off a wall-wart.

In fact some of the "discrete hardware NASA" are exactly that, a Via Epia
micro- or nano-ITX motherboard, a disk, and a fan in a pretty box.

 

[Rod Speed]

That is of course, unless the NAS catches fire. While rare, electronic
devices do occasionally fail in this mode.

Further, most safes are designed to protect paper, not electronics--it's
quite possible for all the paper to have survived but the disk to be
completely wiped. It's important that a data-grade safe be used in this
scenario.

And I'm still a little puzzled about how a "discrete hardware
NAS" is different from "a dinosaur PC as a NAS".

I meant the standalone NAS boxes that are physically like an
external drive except that they are full lan devices, as opposed to
the same thing constructed out of an older obsolete discarded PC.

In case it has escaped your notice, there are many low-power
single board PCs out there, some of which run off a wall-wart.

Sure, I wasnt commenting on those, just those two other extremes.

In fact some of the "discrete hardware NASA" are exactly that, a Via
Epia micro- or nano-ITX motherboard, a disk, and a fan in a pretty box.

See above.

 

[Neil Maxwell]

Thats much more tricky. Flood too. Fire resistant safes, particularly
the sort of smaller safes that are practical for use in houses, get their
fire resistance by whats used to insulate them reacting to the fire.
The way they do that wouldnt be good for the NAS in that safe.

Yep, most fire resistance is gained by a material (often sheetrock)
that gives off moisture when heated, keeping the temperature lower,
but damaging items that are sensitive to moisture. Many gun safes
aren't designed for as much fire resistance because the combination of
high temps and high moisture can be more damaging to steel than just
high temperature.

Sure, particularly in domestic houses.


Not really with fire protection, because of the way they get that.

It's better than nothing, and will protect from minor fires, but
definitely not ideal for major fire protection. It's all part of the
risk analysis tradeoff.

 

[Neil Maxwell]

There are some issues, but I admit I myself have thought about this several
times. The idea occurred to me when I was putting some backups in my safe,
I started thinking how cool it would be to just backup TO the safe over
ethernet. There is always a heat issue, but if the device can be low enough
power you MIGHT be able to get away with it. Many folks with gun safes put
something in them called a "goldenrod" that is basically a small heating
element that keeps the temperature high enough that moisture doesn't cause
rust. Perhaps the NAS device could act the same way-you could kill two
birds.

I have a Goldenrod in my safe, and the small NAS devices I've tried
run cooler than the Goldenrod. It will work the same, though, as all
you need is to keep the inside a few degrees warmer than the outside
so you don't get condensation. All bets are off if you store
something moist inside the safe!

You wouldn't want to put a PC or a hot-running HD inside, but
lower-power devices should be OK.

 

[Neil Maxwell]

Which is it, flexibility or simplicity? The two are mutually exclusive.

To me, for this application, simplicity means easy to setup and run,
and not requiring a bunch of tweaking and fiddling over time.
Flexibility means the ability to add additional PnP storage without a
bunch of tweaking and fiddling or opening the case (via USB, for
instance). I don't see them as mutually exclusive, except I want to
be able to plug it into an XP box as a local drive as well (more
flexibility).

So reformat it. If you "recently had to" pull a drive out of a server and
stick it in another machine to "save your bacon" then you need to review
your backup strategy.

No, I had to restore a backup on one box running off of a wireless
network, and the easiest and fastest way to get it back up and running
was to take the external backup drive and plug it directly into the
laptop. 15 minutes later, it was back online. I had other options -
move the box to a wired network outlet, run a really long net cable,
copy it to DVDs, whatever, but this was fast, easy, simple, and worked
great.

The whole reason for this exploration of alternate strategies is my
ongoing review of my backup strategies. The current one works, and I
want something with deeper redundancy that is also simple and
flexible.

Another way of saying "file server".

Sure, sounds good.

Why do you need this? If True Image can't archive to or restore from a
network volume it's a piece of shit. Drive Image 2.0 could do this.

See above. TI works fine for me, but it doesn't support wireless
currently. I'm looking at ways to expand the system to fit my needs
without implementing an entirely different backup system.

You want to have the device _running_ in a safe? There are so many things
wrong with that idea that I don't know where to begin.

I'd be interested in hearing your concerns. I believe it's a very
good solution to several issues I have, mostly being a very
theft-proof redundant daily backup archive that requires no extra
effort beyond initial setup. I do this with DVDRs currently, but
keeping them current is time-consuming, and they're nowhere near
daily.

Until it fried itself.

Always a risk with any electronic device. If it fried outside the
safe, it might burn my house down; inside the safe, it might destroy
some valuables before the oxygen ran out. Neither sounds like a good
alternative, but I have lots of electronic devices that could burn my
house down if they fried.

Which is there, you plug it into the Ethernet port.

That's true, and may be an option. I'd have to test it with TI and
see if it supports whatever box was used. I'll admit, I like the idea
of USB2/Firewire speeds and flexibility, and the more robust support
(IME) of USB versus network adapters.

The NAS is "another PC to maintain" and another OS. If you think that an
NAS device is not a PC then you really need to take one apart.

I'm familiar with the internals, but the amount of diddling,
configuration, whatever, is much lower with a simple NAS box where
everything's in ROM and your options are limited. It's like comparing
an Xbox to a PC; they're both essentially the same thing, but one
requires much less maintenance than the other.

When I've heard of a cheap NAS that can run for 10 years at a stretch then
I'll believe that they can be "robust".

I'll admit, my needs are not that extreme. If they can run for a few
months at a time, it's OK for starters, but I agree that home NAS is
still on the learning curve.

Which, if you want it to be simple, flexible, and robust it will never do.

I dunno - if the market demand is there, the solutions will develop.
If not, well, that's life.

Why bother? Get a drive for 40 bucks that you can use with NTFS and an NAS
for 40 more.

I haven't seen a home NAS for less than $100 (and those appear to
suck), but that doesn't matter much. Cost isn't an issue within a few
hundred bucks, but I'm looking for something that's not going to be a
big time sink. If you have a recommendation, I'd be interested in
checking it out.

There's a reason that cheap NAS can't handle NTFS and that is that nobody
can read and write that format reliably except Microsoft and until they
stop dinking with it nobody else will.

Yep, that does appear to be a problem, and may be the single biggest
problem here. This is where a USB drive running off of a remote
box/laptop would work well.

 

[Guest]

Check out NASLite or NASLite+ - it's a mini-Linux distribution made for
NAS systems. It sounds like a good way to put old hardware to work.

 

[dg]

See above. TI works fine for me, but it doesn't support wireless
currently. I'm looking at ways to expand the system to fit my needs
without implementing an entirely different backup system.

TI doesn't support wireless? How does it know the difference? All of the
wireless networking products I have used work just like wired networks, only
slower.

--Dan

 

[Rod Speed]

Not necessarily. One obvious example of getting both is a very
small format PC which can be setup any way you like as a NAS
and which allows you to physically move drives out of it if it dies etc.

The only real downside is that its not going to
be quite as small as the smallest non PC NASs
that arent any bigger than an external drive.

To me, for this application, simplicity means easy to setup and
run, and not requiring a bunch of tweaking and fiddling over time.

Yeah, particularly with a very small format PC used as a NAS
which can be setup using ghost multicasting and VNC etc.

Flexibility means the ability to add additional PnP
storage without a bunch of tweaking and fiddling
or opening the case (via USB, for instance).

I dont mind opening the case. The main thing I dont like
is that it isnt going to be as small as a NAS packaged
like an external drive. And that advantage is lost when
one of those can accept extra USB drives, in some ways
its not as convenient as all in a very small format PC.

It would however allow you to just unplug the USB drive
from the NAS and plug it into one of the other PCs tho.

Not sure the cost is warranted tho given that you dont
get drive failure that often and those USB drives tend
to fail at a higher rate than internal drives anyway.

I don't see them as mutually exclusive, except I want to be able
to plug it into an XP box as a local drive as well (more flexibility).

Yeah, but with the downside of the higher failure rate of those drives.

No, I had to restore a backup on one box running off of a wireless
network, and the easiest and fastest way to get it back up and running
was to take the external backup drive and plug it directly into the laptop.
15 minutes later, it was back online. I had other options - move the box
to a wired network outlet, run a really long net cable, copy it to DVDs,
whatever, but this was fast, easy, simple, and worked great.

The whole reason for this exploration of alternate strategies is my
ongoing review of my backup strategies. The current one works, and I
want something with deeper redundancy that is also simple and flexible.

Yeah, me too, tho the failure rate I get is so low that I do have
to wonder whether its really worth bothering about too much.

I put a lot more effort into just increasing the total storage over time.

Corse now I have said that I will start seeing drives die like flys.

Sure, sounds good.

See above. TI works fine for me, but it doesn't support wireless currently.

Yeah, I've always had real reservations about it doing the
restores from Linux, thats gotta bite with new hardware.

Its just bitten me with something as basic as an older
dinosaur motherboard thats fine for the kitchen PC which
has onboard video. The TI bootable CD doesnt like it at all.
The PE bootable CD that ghost and BartPE etc use is fine.

I'm looking at ways to expand the system to fit my needs
without implementing an entirely different backup system.

I'd be interested in hearing your concerns. I believe
it's a very good solution to several issues I have,
mostly being a very theft-proof redundant daily backup
archive that requires no extra effort beyond initial setup.

Yeah, its gotta be doable with a decent datasafe and a low power NAS.

I do this with DVDRs currently, but keeping them current
is time-consuming, and they're nowhere neardaily.

Do they really need to be tho ? Its really only worth bothering
with the stuff you'll slash your wrists if you lose. That stuff is
probably best backed up to the web unless the volume is too
high. And even higher volume stuff like photos and videos you
have made yourself are generally better done to multiple DVDs
as you produce new stuff, and then with one copy kept offsite.

I dont need complete backup in the sense of being able to
restore everything to all the PCs if the house burns down.
Thats going to be a substantial hassle to deal with and the
extra effort to reload all the OSs and apps into all the
replacement PC isnt worth worrying about total time wise.

My place cant float away in a flood.

Always a risk with any electronic device. If it fried outside
the safe, it might burn my house down; inside the safe, it
might destroy some valuables before the oxygen ran out.
Neither sounds like a good alternative, but I have lots of
electronic devices that could burn my house down if they fried.

I doubt you do on that last. There just isnt
enough fuel in most devices to do that.

Its very rare to even get a fire that scorches
the wall, let alone burns the house down.

That's true, and may be an option. I'd have to test it with TI
and see if it supports whatever box was used. I'll admit, I like
the idea of USB2/Firewire speeds and flexibility, and the more
robust support (IME) of USB versus network adapters.

I dont like the higher failure rate of those sorts of drives tho.

The short story is that NIC support is fine with
PE and TI now with the exception of wireless.

I'm familiar with the internals, but the amount of diddling,
configuration, whatever, is much lower with a simple NAS
box where everything's in ROM and your options are limited.

Yeah, no argument there. And its usually alive or dead too.

It's like comparing an Xbox to a PC; they're both essentially the
same thing, but one requires much less maintenance than the other.

I think a better comparison is USB and firewire drives and a
NAS which basically just changes the connection protocol stuff.

I'll admit, my needs are not that extreme. If they can
run for a few months at a time, it's OK for starters, but
I agree that home NAS is still on the learning curve.

And still significantly limited, particularly if you want
to have the basic stuff like NTFS support and being
able to monitor the SMART temp of the drives etc.

That stuff is a lot easier with a very small format PC.

Dont believe that. Its gotta be doable as simple
flexible and robust as a USB or firewire external drive.

I dunno - if the market demand is there, the solutions will develop.

Yeah, particularly when there is no real technical problem doing that.

If not, well, that's life.

Essentially because a plug in solution is a lot more convenient.

I haven't seen a home NAS for less than $100 (and those
appear to suck), but that doesn't matter much. Cost isn't
an issue within a few hundred bucks, but I'm looking for
something that's not going to be a big time sink. If you
have a recommendation, I'd be interested in checking it out.

He appears to be talking about the refurbed Shuttles there.

Cant agree with that, TI manages it quite adequately.

Or that.

Yep, that does appear to be a problem,

The problem is more doing it in rom, thats quite an ask with NTFS.

and may be the single biggest problem here. This is where a
USB drive running off of a remote box/laptop would work well.

I still dont like the significant worse reliability of those.

 

[Rod Speed]

TI doesn't support wireless? How does it know the difference?

It has to, or linux anyway, when you boot the TI CD.

All of the wireless networking products I have used work just like wired
networks, only slower.

Not at that level of running off the TI boot CD.

 

[J. Clarke]

To me, for this application, simplicity means easy to setup and run,
and not requiring a bunch of tweaking and fiddling over time.

Personally I find Novell Netware easy to set up and run and it needs _no_
tweaking and fiddling over time (I've seen unattended uptimes of several
years). Simplicity is often another word for familiarity.

Flexibility means the ability to add additional PnP storage without a
bunch of tweaking and fiddling or opening the case (via USB, for
instance).

Putting USB device on a network necessarily means several bridging stages,
which defeats your objective of simplicity. Further, you're now relying on
a wall-wart and an external case for power and cooling on your drive, more
complexity. I just don't see what's so hard about taking out a few screws
and plugging in a couple of cables.

I don't see them as mutually exclusive, except I want to
be able to plug it into an XP box as a local drive as well (more
flexibility).

Which means that it has to have a filesystem on it that XP can read and
write, which means either that you add something to XP to support a GPL
filesystem or you pay for a Windows license on the NAS or you use FAT32.

No, I had to restore a backup on one box running off of a wireless
network, and the easiest and fastest way to get it back up and running
was to take the external backup drive and plug it directly into the
laptop.

So you took the external network drive and plugged it into an IDE connector
on the laptop? You couldn't use a 3-foot network cable between the laptop
and the NAS?

15 minutes later, it was back online. I had other options -
move the box to a wired network outlet, run a really long net cable,
copy it to DVDs, whatever, but this was fast, easy, simple, and worked
great.

The whole reason for this exploration of alternate strategies is my
ongoing review of my backup strategies. The current one works, and I
want something with deeper redundancy that is also simple and
flexible.


Sure, sounds good.


See above. TI works fine for me, but it doesn't support wireless
currently. I'm looking at ways to expand the system to fit my needs
without implementing an entirely different backup system.

To get wireless support you need something that allows device drivers to be
installed on the boot disk. Sounds like maybe it's time for you to look at
BartPE, which, incidentally, supports TrueImage.

I'd be interested in hearing your concerns. I believe it's a very
good solution to several issues I have, mostly being a very
theft-proof redundant daily backup archive that requires no extra
effort beyond initial setup. I do this with DVDRs currently, but
keeping them current is time-consuming, and they're nowhere near
daily.

First concern, heat dissipation. Take a disk and put it in an aluminum box
with a simple circuit board, not even a power supply, and run it for a
while and see how hot it gets. Now imagine it in a safe with no airflow.

You have to somehow get power and signal into and out of that safe, which
means a power cable and a signal cable, which means that when the fire
starts they provide an entry path into the safe for the fire, which defeats
one of the purposes of having a safe.

The there's the additional fire hazard from having power in the safe--you
may end up burning up the contents of the safe without doing any outward
damage.

Those are just the ones that come to me off the top of my head.

Always a risk with any electronic device. If it fried outside the
safe, it might burn my house down; inside the safe, it might destroy
some valuables before the oxygen ran out. Neither sounds like a good
alternative, but I have lots of electronic devices that could burn my
house down if they fried.

"Fried" != "caught fire". "Fried" means "failed due to insufficient
cooling".

That's true, and may be an option. I'd have to test it with TI and
see if it supports whatever box was used. I'll admit, I like the idea
of USB2/Firewire speeds and flexibility, and the more robust support
(IME) of USB versus network adapters.

"More robust support"? ROF,L.

I'm familiar with the internals, but the amount of diddling,
configuration, whatever, is much lower with a simple NAS box where
everything's in ROM and your options are limited.

What makes you think that everything is in ROM on a typical cheap NAS?

It's like comparing
an Xbox to a PC; they're both essentially the same thing, but one
requires much less maintenance than the other.

Maybe your PC requires a lot of maintenance. If so, I suggest you find out
what's broken and fix it.

I'll admit, my needs are not that extreme. If they can run for a few
months at a time, it's OK for starters, but I agree that home NAS is
still on the learning curve.

If all you need is "a few months at a time" you don't need anything robust.

I dunno - if the market demand is there, the solutions will develop.
If not, well, that's life.

Market demand cannot make the impossible happen.

I haven't seen a home NAS for less than $100 (and those appear to
suck), but that doesn't matter much.

So spend a little once for the box and then upgrade the drive as required.

Cost isn't an issue within a few
hundred bucks, but I'm looking for something that's not going to be a
big time sink. If you have a recommendation, I'd be interested in
checking it out.

Personally I'd if I really wanted something like an NAS, I'd probably pick
up a Series 1 Tivo off of ebay and stick a couple of big drives and and
Tivonet in it. Or alternatively if I had a higher budget build one around
a mini-ITX board--that gives you a choice of interfaces. But I already
know Linux well enough to set either of them up.

Yep, that does appear to be a problem, and may be the single biggest
problem here. This is where a USB drive running off of a remote
box/laptop would work well.

But you'd still have to have Windows on that remote box/laptop.

 

[J. Clarke]

TI doesn't support wireless? How does it know the difference? All of the
wireless networking products I have used work just like wired networks,
only slower.

I suspect that he's talking about its standalone restore disk.

 

[J. Clarke]

I have a Goldenrod in my safe, and the small NAS devices I've tried
run cooler than the Goldenrod.

Do they with no airflow?

It will work the same, though, as all
you need is to keep the inside a few degrees warmer than the outside
so you don't get condensation. All bets are off if you store
something moist inside the safe!

You wouldn't want to put a PC or a hot-running HD inside, but
lower-power devices should be OK.

So where do you find a "cool running HD"? There's nothing magic about the
ones in NAS, they're the same ones you buy at CompUSA.

 

[Rod Speed]

Personally I find Novell Netware easy to set up and run and it needs _no_
tweaking and fiddling over time (I've seen unattended uptimes of several
years). Simplicity is often another word for familiarity.

Nope, real simplicity is that you just plug it in and it works,
no setup required at all and no familiarity required either.

Putting USB device on a network necessarily means several
bridging stages, which defeats your objective of simplicity.

Not necessarily if he meant simplicity in the easy install sense.

Further, you're now relying on a wall-wart and an external case for power
and cooling on your drive, more complexity. I just don't see what's so hard
about taking out a few screws and plugging in a couple of cables.

And life for the drive is generally better too, particularly cooling.

Which means that it has to have a filesystem on it that XP can read and write,

Yes, but a USB and firewire drive is fine in that sense.

which means either that you add something to XP to support a GPL
filesystem or you pay for a Windows license on the NAS or you use FAT32.

Or you use a USB or firewire drive.

So you took the external network drive and plugged it into an IDE connector
on the laptop? You couldn't use a 3-foot network cable between the laptop
and the NAS?

To get wireless support you need something that allows device drivers
to be installed on the boot disk. Sounds like maybe it's time for you to
look at BartPE, which, incidentally, supports TrueImage.

In the sense that you can replace a TI boot CD that doesnt
work with a BartPE with TI added or what exactly ?

First concern, heat dissipation. Take a disk and put it in an aluminum
box with a simple circuit board, not even a power supply, and run it for a
while and see how hot it gets. Now imagine it in a safe with no airflow.

The external drives which dont have fans should work fine in a safe.

You have to somehow get power and signal into and out of that safe,
which means a power cable and a signal cable, which means that when
the fire starts they provide an entry path into the safe for the fire,

Nor really. It wouldnt be hard to fix that adequately.

which defeats one of the purposes of having a safe.

Cant see that.

The there's the additional fire hazard from having power
in the safe--you may end up burning up the contents of
the safe without doing any outward damage.

Sure, but you dont have to have anything else in the safe.

Those are just the ones that come to me off the top of my head.

"Fried" != "caught fire". "Fried" means "failed due to insufficient cooling".

"More robust support"? ROF,L.

What makes you think that everything is in ROM on a typical cheap NAS?

Maybe your PC requires a lot of maintenance. If so, I suggest you find out
what's broken and fix it.


If all you need is "a few months at a time" you don't need anything robust.


Market demand cannot make the impossible happen.

That isnt impossible tho.

 

[Neil Maxwell]

Do they with no airflow?

My safe is the size of a small closet, and I'd have the same concerns
about putting an external drive in a closet with the door closed; that
is, it's something to be concerned about, but by choosing the devices
appropriately (no 10K Barracudas, or whatever the hot drives are), it
won't be an issue.

I live in a dusty climate, and have more overheating problems with
fan-cooled devices in the open air because of dust buildup. Just an
other maintenance item. The safe tends to be pretty dust-free, since
it's not open much, but there is a bit of lint from the liners and
soft gun cases. Not enough to matter, so far.

So where do you find a "cool running HD"? There's nothing magic about the
ones in NAS, they're the same ones you buy at CompUSA.

As I'm sure you know, some drives run cooler than others, and some
cases run cooler than others. I have no doubt some NAS devices also
run cooler than others.

 

[Neil Maxwell]

I suspect that he's talking about its standalone restore disk.

Yes, I'm afraid I wasn't being very specific. Wireless support is
fine from XP, but not from the boot CD, which is when I need quick and
troublefree interfaces.

 

[Neil Maxwell]

It sounds like you've got a system that works well for your needs, and
that's good. I've obviously got a different set of needs, and with
luck, someone will address them. I believe the market is ripe for
such a thing. More comments below.

Personally I find Novell Netware easy to set up and run and it needs _no_
tweaking and fiddling over time (I've seen unattended uptimes of several
years). Simplicity is often another word for familiarity.

This is true, and I'm just not up for learning another OS right now.
My time's a bit limited, and too much of it is spent on PC issues as
it is. I have other hobbies I'm trying to free up time for, so
Novell/Knoppix/Samba/whatever just isn't in the cards for me right
now.

Putting USB device on a network necessarily means several bridging stages,
which defeats your objective of simplicity. Further, you're now relying on
a wall-wart and an external case for power and cooling on your drive, more
complexity. I just don't see what's so hard about taking out a few screws
and plugging in a couple of cables.

I test the USB devices I want to use to make sure they work as PnP
devices with everything I've got, so compatibility isn't an issue.
Once this is done, it's an issue of plugging in a couple of plugs vs.
screws, cables, and the increased risk of failure when handling
electronic devices. Sure, it's doable, and no, it's not hard, but
it's not my current goal. I also want to be able to walk people
through it remotely, so PnP is crucial.

Which means that it has to have a filesystem on it that XP can read and
write, which means either that you add something to XP to support a GPL
filesystem or you pay for a Windows license on the NAS or you use FAT32.

As long as it plugs in and reads, I'm OK. I prefer native Windows
support, as I've found that extra drivers are likely to give trouble
just when you don't need it, and no FAT32. Again, personal
preference. I know there are lots of options, and I'm looking for
simple.

So you took the external network drive and plugged it into an IDE connector
on the laptop? You couldn't use a 3-foot network cable between the laptop
and the NAS?

No, it was in a Firewire box that lives in another room. It's not
dedicated NAS per se, just a shared external drive attached to a
different computer. It's standalone NAS that I want, hence the
investigations that started my original response to this thread, and
this is why I'd like this capability on the NAS box, because it made
the difference between a fast, simple restore, and a tedious, long
restore.

To get wireless support you need something that allows device drivers to be
installed on the boot disk. Sounds like maybe it's time for you to look at
BartPE, which, incidentally, supports TrueImage.

I like the simplicity of TI. I don't actually care about wireless
support for a bootdisk restore, due to speed issues; I'd much rather
just plug the box into the USB port, boot the CD, and restore. I've
done it a number of times and I'm happy with the speed and ease of
use. As long as I've pre-qualified the hardware, it's fast and easy.

First concern, heat dissipation. Take a disk and put it in an aluminum box
with a simple circuit board, not even a power supply, and run it for a
while and see how hot it gets. Now imagine it in a safe with no airflow.

As I stated in another thread, my safe is large enough that it's not
an issue with a relatively low power device. I'm familiar with heat
dissipation and airflow issues, and I don't see a problem with my
setup, but other setups may be different.

You have to somehow get power and signal into and out of that safe, which
means a power cable and a signal cable, which means that when the fire
starts they provide an entry path into the safe for the fire, which defeats
one of the purposes of having a safe.

Most large safes already have a hole cut for power cords, used for
heater/dehumidifiers, lights, and such. Running a network or USB
cable and a power jack are no big deal.

The there's the additional fire hazard from having power in the safe--you
may end up burning up the contents of the safe without doing any outward
damage.

Again, most large safes, particularly if they're used to store guns,
already have power run in. This is definitely a risk, though, and
it's a tradeoff. IME, the risk of failure of HDs and other electronic
components resulting in an actual fire is far lower than
electronic/mechanical failure (covered by my current system) or theft
(not covered effectively by my current system, which hole I'm trying
to patch).

Those are just the ones that come to me off the top of my head.


"Fried" != "caught fire". "Fried" means "failed due to insufficient
cooling".
Gotcha.


"More robust support"? ROF,L.

This is strictly based on my personal experience with my gear. I've
found that TI (and Ghost, based on limited experience) support generic
USB far better than my varied collection of network devices. As long
as I've made sure the USB box works on my systems, it's more robust
for me in my application. The improved speed is a bonus, as well.

I realize this may not apply to everyone, but it's worked well for me
so far.

What makes you think that everything is in ROM on a typical cheap NAS?

The ones I've looked at appear to be that way, in that some have no
other storage (like the NSLU2) and others still work if you switch the
HD. I'm using "ROM" generically for persistent non-HD memory, and
including flash in there, which may be showing my age. If there's
some other form of inexpensive persistent storage for the BIOS/OS in
such a device, I'm not familiar with it.

Maybe your PC requires a lot of maintenance. If so, I suggest you find out
what's broken and fix it.


If all you need is "a few months at a time" you don't need anything robust.


Market demand cannot make the impossible happen.


So spend a little once for the box and then upgrade the drive as required.


Personally I'd if I really wanted something like an NAS, I'd probably pick
up a Series 1 Tivo off of ebay and stick a couple of big drives and and
Tivonet in it. Or alternatively if I had a higher budget build one around
a mini-ITX board--that gives you a choice of interfaces. But I already
know Linux well enough to set either of them up.

This is exactly the sort of thing I'm trying to avoid. Again, it's a
fine solution for many people, and I'm sure it works very well for
you, but I'm trying to de-prioritize PCs as projects in my life. This
kind of thing just isn't as much fun as it once was, and I've got
other stuff I'm trying to do.

For instance, I wanted a solution for archiving stuff off my current
Tivo and my videocam, and quickly rejected network connections, PC
capture and edits, and such, for the reasons mentioned above.
Instead, I got an inexpensive standalone DVD recorder, which just
requires popping in a blank and playing the show through. Maybe not
technologically elegant, but it's fast, simple, and flexible, and I
can always edit the stuff later if I really want to.

Not for everyone, sure, but I'm very happy with it.

But you'd still have to have Windows on that remote box/laptop.

Yah, I'm OK with that. Sure, there's a lot about Windows not to like,
but there's also a ton of support for it, and I've already got good
Windows expertise. Again, I just have no interest in learning yet
another system. I've been down that road many, many times over the
past 30 years, and it's getting a bit tiresome.

Thanks for the suggestions, though.

 

[Neil Maxwell]

What do you think of Maxtor Network Storage?

http://www.maxtor.com/_files/maxtor/en_us/documentation/data_sheets/mss_datasheet.pdf

There's some data starting to show up out there on the new Maxtors
network drives. They've got a few things I don't care for:

- The USB ports on it are for attaching peripherals only (printer or
extra hard drives), and can't be used to connect the drive directly to
a PC.

- External USB drives connected to it can only be FAT32 format if you
want to be able to write to them. NTFS drives will be read-only. It
appears the Maxtor's internal drive is also formatted as FAT32, but I
can't find it called out in their docs anywhere.

- If you're planning on connecting a printer, multi-function devices
won't work with it.