Help with "Pirated" Software

[Captain Blackbeard Hook]

Here's the deal. I bought this PC back in 2003 from a local company who
had this distributor in New Jersey (USA). It was not quite bare-bones,
but it came with most everything essential. I had to get my own keyboard
and mouse and speakers and printer and stuff like that. I since got
another graphics card, some more RAM sticks and another hard drive. It
had Windows XP (the one that was (c) 2001) installed on it already from
the factory. (I got a Microsoft mouse and keyboard, if that counts for
anything.) I kept it all updated and got each of the SP1 and SP2 when
they came out with no problem.

OK. Now, I go to the Microsoft free software store at microsoft.com and
want to get some of that free Anti-Spyware that everybody is talking
about. Microsoft gives you that program to check and verify if you have
the real Windows XP on board and fired up. I say "Why not?" I do the
little buttons and she checks me out. OMG! She says I have a "Volume
License Key" and the key doesn't match something, something, something,
whatever - I should have written it down but my heart is still
palpitating at a serious rhythm, etc.

They let me go ahead and download the spyware thangy, and it found a
couple of thangys and I let it clean it out, and then I rebooted and now
here I am. Whew, so far.

I really don't think this is fair! I want to do the right thing and all,
but it turns out that both the retailer and the "factory" are gone out of
business, I don't have a sticker, and I don't have a disc. (It has a
backup on the "D" partition to backup to the original installation - I
only had to do it once, and you lose all your softwares, but then you
just re-install them if you want them, etc.)

If Microsoft is going to make a software, they just ought to fix it so
people like me who don't speak computer yet don't get rammed in the
unawares by essentially THEIR software! Doesn't anyone else see it that
way?

OK, OK. Let's never mind the bummer for a quickie, and go here: I want
to do the right thing here. Doesn't it make sense that if Microsoft can
scan your computer and find out 1) your Windows XP is supposedly not
valid, that they should be able to uncover 2) that is indeed a Windows XP
OS, and simply allow you to buy a copy of a good XP or key for "cost"
instead of some complicated retail prices referral system?

I really don't want to get all tied up in investigations and allegations
and insinuations and up to my butt in lawyers and other pond scum
parasitical types. Can somebody here just check with their buddies at
Microsoft hill and come up with a plan to let us buy a ticket to make our
Windows XP installations legal without having to pay a penalty because
some black-hearted techno-crooks scammed on our lack of computer
knowledge? I'm not sure, but I'm thinking here, I might just not be the
only one getting in troubles for this type thing, and Microsoft might as
well make it easy for us all to just be legal, without killing my lunch
money budget or whacking into my tuiton funds. Get it? I could go
really to some of the pirates at my school, but I just don't want to do
all that mess looking over my shoulder and all that over a few lousey
bucks. Besides, Windows XP is fun, and Microsoft deserves to make their
money for writing it, but that doesn't mean I should have to pay retail
over and over to get it right - or have a team of lawyers to perfect a
deal on Windows XP, you know? I mean, like let's get some 'real' in the
algorithm here.

Thanks for any good remedy. I'm thinking somewhere in the $50 range
would be OK to minimize my damages and pay Microsoft for their trouble --
but I'm telling ya, it wouldn't be hard to sustain an argument that
Microsoft should not have created the circumstance that this could
happen. IOW: if they made the OS's so that they would not install
without a valid license, then there wouldn't be a problem, would there?

YIKES! This is so bad. How long do I have now that they know where I
live and all like that? Help. Halle Berry in 'Queen:' "Hep me, hep me,
O lordy, somebody hep me pleeese."

 

[Carey Frisch [MVP]]

Unfortunately, you never purchased a legitimate
Windows XP license in the first place. The only
thing you can do is to purchase a "Full Version"
of Windows XP Professional and perform a
"Repair Install".

You can get a good price for an OEM version
of Windows XP Professional here:
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproductdesc.asp?description=37-102-153&DEPA=6

How to Perform a Windows XP Repair Install
http://www.michaelstevenstech.com/XPrepairinstall.htm

[Courtesy of MS-MVP Michael Stevens]

--
Carey Frisch
Microsoft MVP
Windows XP - Shell/User

Be Smart! Protect Your PC!
http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/protect/default.aspx

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

:

| Here's the deal. I bought this PC back in 2003 from a local company who
| had this distributor in New Jersey (USA). It was not quite bare-bones,
| but it came with most everything essential. I had to get my own keyboard
| and mouse and speakers and printer and stuff like that. I since got
| another graphics card, some more RAM sticks and another hard drive. It
| had Windows XP (the one that was (c) 2001) installed on it already from
| the factory. (I got a Microsoft mouse and keyboard, if that counts for
| anything.) I kept it all updated and got each of the SP1 and SP2 when
| they came out with no problem.
|
| OK. Now, I go to the Microsoft free software store at microsoft.com and
| want to get some of that free Anti-Spyware that everybody is talking
| about. Microsoft gives you that program to check and verify if you have
| the real Windows XP on board and fired up. I say "Why not?" I do the
| little buttons and she checks me out. OMG! She says I have a "Volume
| License Key" and the key doesn't match something, something, something,
| whatever - I should have written it down but my heart is still
| palpitating at a serious rhythm, etc.
|
| They let me go ahead and download the spyware thangy, and it found a
| couple of thangys and I let it clean it out, and then I rebooted and now
| here I am. Whew, so far.
|
| I really don't think this is fair! I want to do the right thing and all,
| but it turns out that both the retailer and the "factory" are gone out of
| business, I don't have a sticker, and I don't have a disc. (It has a
| backup on the "D" partition to backup to the original installation - I
| only had to do it once, and you lose all your softwares, but then you
| just re-install them if you want them, etc.)
|
| If Microsoft is going to make a software, they just ought to fix it so
| people like me who don't speak computer yet don't get rammed in the
| unawares by essentially THEIR software! Doesn't anyone else see it that
| way?
|
| OK, OK. Let's never mind the bummer for a quickie, and go here: I want
| to do the right thing here. Doesn't it make sense that if Microsoft can
| scan your computer and find out 1) your Windows XP is supposedly not
| valid, that they should be able to uncover 2) that is indeed a Windows XP
| OS, and simply allow you to buy a copy of a good XP or key for "cost"
| instead of some complicated retail prices referral system?
|
| I really don't want to get all tied up in investigations and allegations
| and insinuations and up to my butt in lawyers and other pond scum
| parasitical types. Can somebody here just check with their buddies at
| Microsoft hill and come up with a plan to let us buy a ticket to make our
| Windows XP installations legal without having to pay a penalty because
| some black-hearted techno-crooks scammed on our lack of computer
| knowledge? I'm not sure, but I'm thinking here, I might just not be the
| only one getting in troubles for this type thing, and Microsoft might as
| well make it easy for us all to just be legal, without killing my lunch
| money budget or whacking into my tuiton funds. Get it? I could go
| really to some of the pirates at my school, but I just don't want to do
| all that mess looking over my shoulder and all that over a few lousey
| bucks. Besides, Windows XP is fun, and Microsoft deserves to make their
| money for writing it, but that doesn't mean I should have to pay retail
| over and over to get it right - or have a team of lawyers to perfect a
| deal on Windows XP, you know? I mean, like let's get some 'real' in the
| algorithm here.
|
| Thanks for any good remedy. I'm thinking somewhere in the $50 range
| would be OK to minimize my damages and pay Microsoft for their trouble --
| but I'm telling ya, it wouldn't be hard to sustain an argument that
| Microsoft should not have created the circumstance that this could
| happen. IOW: if they made the OS's so that they would not install
| without a valid license, then there wouldn't be a problem, would there?
|
| YIKES! This is so bad. How long do I have now that they know where I
| live and all like that? Help. Halle Berry in 'Queen:' "Hep me, hep me,
| O lordy, somebody hep me pleeese."

 

[Vanguard]

Here's the deal. I bought this PC back in 2003 from a local company
who
had this distributor in New Jersey (USA). ... It
had Windows XP (the one that was (c) 2001) installed on it already
from
the factory. ...
... says I have a "Volume License Key" ...
... it turns out that both the retailer and the "factory" are gone out
of
business, I don't have a sticker, and I don't have a disc. (It has a
backup on the "D" partition to backup to the original installation - I
only had to do it once, and you lose all your softwares, but then you
just re-install them if you want them, etc.)

Yep, you got ripped off. The volume license requires that ALL copies of
Windows installed under that license are for hosts within the SAME
organization. You aren't part of the jobber's company that built the
box. They used illegally used a volume license by slicing up the number
of seats provided by the license to outsiders. Go back to the retailer
(doesn't matter where they got it from) since your contract for purchase
was with them. Oops, not in business anymore? Guess why? They were
pirating software!

You're stuck with having to buy another copy of Windows to have a legal
version. I don't know if Microsoft will continue downloading updates to
pirated instances of their software. Once their lawyers compose a
blanket policy that protects Microsoft's ass and after a couple trial
court cases which they win, they'll then probably shut off all pirated
copies from getting updates. After all, they are already testing the
waters by deploying the version checker tool which you encountered.
Eventually you probably won't be able to voluntarily skip it.

 

[Alex Nichol]

Here's the deal. I bought this PC back in 2003 from a local company who
had this distributor in New Jersey (USA). It was not quite bare-bones,
but it came with most everything essential. I had to get my own keyboard
and mouse and speakers and printer and stuff like that. I since got
another graphics card, some more RAM sticks and another hard drive. It
had Windows XP (the one that was (c) 2001) installed on it already from
the factory. (I got a Microsoft mouse and keyboard, if that counts for
anything.) I kept it all updated and got each of the SP1 and SP2 when
they came out with no problem.

OK. Now, I go to the Microsoft free software store at microsoft.com and
want to get some of that free Anti-Spyware that everybody is talking
about. Microsoft gives you that program to check and verify if you have
the real Windows XP on board and fired up. I say "Why not?" I do the
little buttons and she checks me out. OMG! She says I have a "Volume
License Key" and the key doesn't match something, something, something,
whatever - I should have written it down but my heart is still
palpitating at a serious rhythm, etc.

They let me go ahead and download the spyware thangy, and it found a
couple of thangys and I let it clean it out, and then I rebooted and now
here I am. Whew, so far.

I really don't think this is fair! I want to do the right thing and all,
but it turns out that both the retailer and the "factory" are gone out of
business, I don't have a sticker, and I don't have a disc. (It has a
backup on the "D" partition to backup to the original installation - I
only had to do it once, and you lose all your softwares, but then you
just re-install them if you want them, etc.)

You had the misfortune to buy from someone dealing in Stolen goods.
Taking a CD of the 'Volume licensed' version sold to corporations for
installing on multiple machines and using a pirated key to install it.

Several of these were leaked or generated by the pirates, and Microsoft
is now tightening up on detecting their use.

Microsoft has not received a penny as a result. You are in the same
position as if you bought a 'used car' that turned out to be stolen

 

[R. McCarty]

From what I've read, this new Windows Genuine Advantage
program is supposed to "Weed-Out" or help users to determine
if their systems have one of these invalid setups on their PCs.

I've seen postings and articles that indicate Microsoft is going to
offer some type of "Discount" program to help users obtain a valid
license. How that will work or the cost involved, I'll guess we'll
see later in 2005 when WGA becomes mandatory.

 

[Alias]

| From what I've read, this new Windows Genuine Advantage
| program is supposed to "Weed-Out" or help users to determine
| if their systems have one of these invalid setups on their PCs.
|
| I've seen postings and articles that indicate Microsoft is going to
| offer some type of "Discount" program to help users obtain a valid
| license. How that will work or the cost involved, I'll guess we'll
| see later in 2005 when WGA becomes mandatory.

It will only be mandatory if one uses one's IE browser for WU. AU will not
have this -- yet. This is just another way that MS shows its gratitude to
its paying customers, make them go through hoops while the hackers and
crackers use a good machine to download the updates, burn them to a CD and
install them on their pirated machines.

Who has activation affected negatively?

Paying customers.

Who will WGA affect negatively?

Again, paying customers.

Who will make money selling "discounted" XPs to customers who unwittingly
bought a cracked XP?

Why, Microsoft, who else?

Who will NOT be negatively affected?

The crackers and the people who knowingly use cracked OSs, who else?

Brillant move, Microsoft.
--
Alias

Use the Reply to Sender feature of your news reader program to email me.
Utiliza Responder al Remitente para mandarme un mail.
|
| | > Captain Blackbeard Hook wrote:
| >
| >>Here's the deal. I bought this PC back in 2003 from a local company who
| >>had this distributor in New Jersey (USA). It was not quite bare-bones,
| >>but it came with most everything essential. I had to get my own
keyboard
| >>and mouse and speakers and printer and stuff like that. I since got
| >>another graphics card, some more RAM sticks and another hard drive. It
| >>had Windows XP (the one that was (c) 2001) installed on it already from
| >>the factory. (I got a Microsoft mouse and keyboard, if that counts for
| >>anything.) I kept it all updated and got each of the SP1 and SP2 when
| >>they came out with no problem.
| >>
| >>OK. Now, I go to the Microsoft free software store at microsoft.com and
| >>want to get some of that free Anti-Spyware that everybody is talking
| >>about. Microsoft gives you that program to check and verify if you have
| >>the real Windows XP on board and fired up. I say "Why not?" I do the
| >>little buttons and she checks me out. OMG! She says I have a "Volume
| >>License Key" and the key doesn't match something, something, something,
| >>whatever - I should have written it down but my heart is still
| >>palpitating at a serious rhythm, etc.
| >>
| >>They let me go ahead and download the spyware thangy, and it found a
| >>couple of thangys and I let it clean it out, and then I rebooted and now
| >>here I am. Whew, so far.
| >>
| >>I really don't think this is fair! I want to do the right thing and
all,
| >>but it turns out that both the retailer and the "factory" are gone out
of
| >>business, I don't have a sticker, and I don't have a disc. (It has a
| >>backup on the "D" partition to backup to the original installation - I
| >>only had to do it once, and you lose all your softwares, but then you
| >>just re-install them if you want them, etc.)
| >
| > You had the misfortune to buy from someone dealing in Stolen goods.
| > Taking a CD of the 'Volume licensed' version sold to corporations for
| > installing on multiple machines and using a pirated key to install it.
| >
| > Several of these were leaked or generated by the pirates, and Microsoft
| > is now tightening up on detecting their use.
| >
| > Microsoft has not received a penny as a result. You are in the same
| > position as if you bought a 'used car' that turned out to be stolen
| >
| >
| > --
| > Alex Nichol MS MVP (Windows Technologies)
| > Bournemouth, U.K. (e-mail address removed)8E8L.org (remove the D8 bit)
|
|

 

[R. McCarty]

I'm not promoting it or arguing it's merits.

It's like Dennis Miller says " The Meek shall inherit the Earth,
But the A--holes will contest the Will."

 

[Dan]

You have the option to have updates installed automatically and this will not
be turned off when the anti-pirarcy inniative from Microsoft goes into full
effect in about the middle of 2005. Hopefully, by allowing this goodwill
gesture Microsoft will help to keep all PCs safe from the radical and
sometimes insane Internet. The other alternative is to bite the bullet and
buy legal software. I would try and get the police involved to see if they
can help you to catch the thieves.

: Here's the deal. I bought this PC back in 2003 from a local company who
: had this distributor in New Jersey (USA). It was not quite bare-bones,
: but it came with most everything essential. I had to get my own keyboard
: and mouse and speakers and printer and stuff like that. I since got
: another graphics card, some more RAM sticks and another hard drive. It
: had Windows XP (the one that was (c) 2001) installed on it already from
: the factory. (I got a Microsoft mouse and keyboard, if that counts for
: anything.) I kept it all updated and got each of the SP1 and SP2 when
: they came out with no problem.
:
: OK. Now, I go to the Microsoft free software store at microsoft.com and
: want to get some of that free Anti-Spyware that everybody is talking
: about. Microsoft gives you that program to check and verify if you have
: the real Windows XP on board and fired up. I say "Why not?" I do the
: little buttons and she checks me out. OMG! She says I have a "Volume
: License Key" and the key doesn't match something, something, something,
: whatever - I should have written it down but my heart is still
: palpitating at a serious rhythm, etc.
:
: They let me go ahead and download the spyware thangy, and it found a
: couple of thangys and I let it clean it out, and then I rebooted and now
: here I am. Whew, so far.
:
: I really don't think this is fair! I want to do the right thing and all,
: but it turns out that both the retailer and the "factory" are gone out of
: business, I don't have a sticker, and I don't have a disc. (It has a
: backup on the "D" partition to backup to the original installation - I
: only had to do it once, and you lose all your softwares, but then you
: just re-install them if you want them, etc.)
:
: If Microsoft is going to make a software, they just ought to fix it so
: people like me who don't speak computer yet don't get rammed in the
: unawares by essentially THEIR software! Doesn't anyone else see it that
: way?
:
: OK, OK. Let's never mind the bummer for a quickie, and go here: I want
: to do the right thing here. Doesn't it make sense that if Microsoft can
: scan your computer and find out 1) your Windows XP is supposedly not
: valid, that they should be able to uncover 2) that is indeed a Windows XP
: OS, and simply allow you to buy a copy of a good XP or key for "cost"
: instead of some complicated retail prices referral system?
:
: I really don't want to get all tied up in investigations and allegations
: and insinuations and up to my butt in lawyers and other pond scum
: parasitical types. Can somebody here just check with their buddies at
: Microsoft hill and come up with a plan to let us buy a ticket to make our
: Windows XP installations legal without having to pay a penalty because
: some black-hearted techno-crooks scammed on our lack of computer
: knowledge? I'm not sure, but I'm thinking here, I might just not be the
: only one getting in troubles for this type thing, and Microsoft might as
: well make it easy for us all to just be legal, without killing my lunch
: money budget or whacking into my tuiton funds. Get it? I could go
: really to some of the pirates at my school, but I just don't want to do
: all that mess looking over my shoulder and all that over a few lousey
: bucks. Besides, Windows XP is fun, and Microsoft deserves to make their
: money for writing it, but that doesn't mean I should have to pay retail
: over and over to get it right - or have a team of lawyers to perfect a
: deal on Windows XP, you know? I mean, like let's get some 'real' in the
: algorithm here.
:
: Thanks for any good remedy. I'm thinking somewhere in the $50 range
: would be OK to minimize my damages and pay Microsoft for their trouble --
: but I'm telling ya, it wouldn't be hard to sustain an argument that
: Microsoft should not have created the circumstance that this could
: happen. IOW: if they made the OS's so that they would not install
: without a valid license, then there wouldn't be a problem, would there?
:
: YIKES! This is so bad. How long do I have now that they know where I
: live and all like that? Help. Halle Berry in 'Queen:' "Hep me, hep me,
: O lordy, somebody hep me pleeese."

 

[Vanguard]

| From what I've read, this new Windows Genuine Advantage
| program is supposed to "Weed-Out" or help users to determine
| if their systems have one of these invalid setups on their PCs.
|
| I've seen postings and articles that indicate Microsoft is going to
| offer some type of "Discount" program to help users obtain a valid
| license. How that will work or the cost involved, I'll guess we'll
| see later in 2005 when WGA becomes mandatory.

It will only be mandatory if one uses one's IE browser for WU. AU will
not
have this -- yet. This is just another way that MS shows its gratitude
to
its paying customers, make them go through hoops while the hackers and
crackers use a good machine to download the updates, burn them to a CD
and
install them on their pirated machines.

Who has activation affected negatively?

Paying customers.

Who will WGA affect negatively?

Again, paying customers.

Who will make money selling "discounted" XPs to customers who
unwittingly
bought a cracked XP?

Why, Microsoft, who else?

Who will NOT be negatively affected?

The crackers and the people who knowingly use cracked OSs, who else?

Brillant move, Microsoft.
--
Alias

Use the Reply to Sender feature of your news reader program to email
me.
Utiliza Responder al Remitente para mandarme un mail.
|
| | > Captain Blackbeard Hook wrote:
| >
| >>Here's the deal. I bought this PC back in 2003 from a local
company who
| >>had this distributor in New Jersey (USA). It was not quite
bare-bones,
| >>but it came with most everything essential. I had to get my own
keyboard
| >>and mouse and speakers and printer and stuff like that. I since
got
| >>another graphics card, some more RAM sticks and another hard
drive. It
| >>had Windows XP (the one that was (c) 2001) installed on it already
from
| >>the factory. (I got a Microsoft mouse and keyboard, if that
counts for
| >>anything.) I kept it all updated and got each of the SP1 and SP2
when
| >>they came out with no problem.
| >>
| >>OK. Now, I go to the Microsoft free software store at
microsoft.com and
| >>want to get some of that free Anti-Spyware that everybody is
talking
| >>about. Microsoft gives you that program to check and verify if
you have
| >>the real Windows XP on board and fired up. I say "Why not?" I do
the
| >>little buttons and she checks me out. OMG! She says I have a
"Volume
| >>License Key" and the key doesn't match something, something,
something,
| >>whatever - I should have written it down but my heart is still
| >>palpitating at a serious rhythm, etc.
| >>
| >>They let me go ahead and download the spyware thangy, and it found
a
| >>couple of thangys and I let it clean it out, and then I rebooted
and now
| >>here I am. Whew, so far.
| >>
| >>I really don't think this is fair! I want to do the right thing
and
all,
| >>but it turns out that both the retailer and the "factory" are gone
out
of
| >>business, I don't have a sticker, and I don't have a disc. (It has
a
| >>backup on the "D" partition to backup to the original
installation - I
| >>only had to do it once, and you lose all your softwares, but then
you
| >>just re-install them if you want them, etc.)
| >
| > You had the misfortune to buy from someone dealing in Stolen
goods.
| > Taking a CD of the 'Volume licensed' version sold to corporations
for
| > installing on multiple machines and using a pirated key to install
it.
| >
| > Several of these were leaked or generated by the pirates, and
Microsoft
| > is now tightening up on detecting their use.
| >
| > Microsoft has not received a penny as a result. You are in the
same
| > position as if you bought a 'used car' that turned out to be
stolen

Geez, you really want a free ride. No owner of a stolen product needs
to provide ANY reimbursement or help to the victim that purchased the
stolen wares. A carjacker yanks you out of your car, later it gets
bought by a dupe, the dupe gets caught with the stolen car during a VIN
check when pulled over for speeding, your car gets returned, impounded,
sold off at auction, or sent to the insurance company (since they paid
for the loss). So are you really going to go help the dupe out by
buying them a car and giving it to them at a discount? You don't have
to do a damn thing for the dupe. It's not your responsibility to help
the dupe. But if you did decide to help out the dupe to some degree,
then some a-hole sitting on the sideline that isn't even involved in the
charity goes screaming that you should give it away for free at all your
cost just because your wallet is fatter than theirs. Guess you must be
a socialism fanatic: everything theirs is also yours. Gee, guess in
which country Microsoft is corporated? Microsoft is definitely not in
your world.

 

[Bruce Chambers]

Vanguard wrote:
o be stolen

Geez, you really want a free ride. No owner of a stolen product needs
to provide ANY reimbursement or help to the victim that purchased the
stolen wares. A carjacker yanks you out of your car, later it gets
bought by a dupe, the dupe gets caught with the stolen car during a VIN
check when pulled over for speeding, your car gets returned, ....

I really wish it worked that way. I had a car stolen from me once.
The subsequent purchaser was easily identified and found. Did I get my
car back? Nope. Under the laws of the state in which this transpired,
the purchaser was allowed to keep my car because he had had no way of
knowing it was stolen and had purchased it in good faith.


I do agree with your position, but I thought I'd point out that that
specific example was flawed. The victim (OP) must seek redress from the
criminals who ripped him off, not an uninvolved 3rd party.


--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:



You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having
both at once. - RAH

 

[Dan]

My employee number was recently stolen at work and it was the only part of my
identity that I do not safeguard somewhat carefully. Anyway, the theft has
been reported to my company and prompt action will be taken. It was a
co-worker and jail time may be in store for them and possibly a reward for
me.

: Vanguard wrote:
: o be stolen
: >
: >
: >
: > Geez, you really want a free ride. No owner of a stolen product needs
: > to provide ANY reimbursement or help to the victim that purchased the
: > stolen wares. A carjacker yanks you out of your car, later it gets
: > bought by a dupe, the dupe gets caught with the stolen car during a VIN
: > check when pulled over for speeding, your car gets returned, ....
:
:
: I really wish it worked that way. I had a car stolen from me once.
: The subsequent purchaser was easily identified and found. Did I get my
: car back? Nope. Under the laws of the state in which this transpired,
: the purchaser was allowed to keep my car because he had had no way of
: knowing it was stolen and had purchased it in good faith.
:
:
: I do agree with your position, but I thought I'd point out that that
: specific example was flawed. The victim (OP) must seek redress from the
: criminals who ripped him off, not an uninvolved 3rd party.
:
:
: --
:
: Bruce Chambers
:
: Help us help you:
:
:
:
: You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having
: both at once. - RAH

 

[Vanguard]

I really wish it worked that way. I had a car stolen from me once.
The subsequent purchaser was easily identified and found. Did I get
my car back? Nope. Under the laws of the state in which this
transpired, the purchaser was allowed to keep my car because he had
had no way of knowing it was stolen and had purchased it in good
faith.

Did your insurance pay off for the stolen car? Did you claim the
insurance and get paid? If so, it wasn't your car anymore. It was the
insurance company's car and their choice what to do with it *if* they
had not already taken the loss against their revenue.

I had a father and dad buy my stolen bicycle. Because I didn't claim
any insurance loss on it, the police contacted me to ask if I wanted the
bike back because it was still my property. I wasn't sure but after
seeing the dad and son, I decided to let them keep it. It was still in
good shape, they had bought it in good faith, and I had already gotten a
replacement, so I let them keep it (and filled out the transfer on the
bike license that I still had). But I had no obligation to let them
keep it because it was still my property. At no time did I surrender
ownership. I could have taken it back because it was still mine. If I
had offered it to the dad and son for $20 (which was definitely a
"steal" on that bike), Alias would scream that I was raking them over
yet the fact was that I would be SELLING them my old bike for only $20
(it cost over $400 new and was all of maybe 2 years old but was used
only a couple times). The dad and son would've been elated even if I
had charged them $20 to relinquish my ownership (and actually offered me
more than that but I didn't need it). I suppose there is some statue of
limitation that says stolen property not returned after so many years is
no longer your property (and getting paid by an insurance company
definitely makes it no longer your property).

Just because it is out of your control doesn't mean you lose ownership.
Otherwise, you would lose ownership everyday when you left your car in
the parking lot. You losing your car which is a major asset to some
dupe that bought it from a thief means there is something else you
aren't telling us. So when do you expect to lose your house because
some con man sells it off to a dupe that is willing to buy it sight
unseen but "in good faith"?

Nowhere in the USA do you lose your ownership of your property because
it was stolen. More likely the insurance paid off so it wasn't your car
anymore, and the insurance company took it as a loss to offset their
revenue so they legally already acquired the value of vehicle so they
would be hard pressed to prove it was their property anymore (otherwise
they would get double the value of the vehicle). Are the Mormons really
that weird over there in Idaho that anything stolen becomes the property
of some dupe that buys stolen goods from a thief? For some reason, the
car was considered no longer your property.

 

[Dan]

Don't the Mormons think that you will become a god of a planet or some jazz
like that. Then there are the Jehovah Witnesses that seem to come sometimes
to my door to try and convert me to their way of thinking. Jeez, our society
has to change and be patient and more content with what they have and I
include myself in being more patient and content too. I need to have a
better attitude towards life and a more thankful heart that I still have my
five senses and can run and breath. I had cancer twice and had radiation and
then chemotherapy to cure me and even though modern medicine helped cure me
now I cannot help but to believe in a higher power and I do not care if
anyone in this forum flames me or think less of me because I am a unique
individual like everyone else and have gone through Hell on Earth as well as
being learning disabled (just well remediated now it was found out when I was
6) and we all have our own opinions and beliefs. Take Care Everyone!

: : > Vanguard wrote:
: >>
: >> Geez, you really want a free ride. No owner of a stolen product
: >> needs to provide ANY reimbursement or help to the victim that
: >> purchased the stolen wares. A carjacker yanks you out of your car,
: >> later it gets bought by a dupe, the dupe gets caught with the stolen
: >> car during a VIN check when pulled over for speeding, your car gets
: >> returned, ....
: >
: >
: > I really wish it worked that way. I had a car stolen from me once.
: > The subsequent purchaser was easily identified and found. Did I get
: > my car back? Nope. Under the laws of the state in which this
: > transpired, the purchaser was allowed to keep my car because he had
: > had no way of knowing it was stolen and had purchased it in good
: > faith.
:
: Did your insurance pay off for the stolen car? Did you claim the
: insurance and get paid? If so, it wasn't your car anymore. It was the
: insurance company's car and their choice what to do with it *if* they
: had not already taken the loss against their revenue.
:
: I had a father and dad buy my stolen bicycle. Because I didn't claim
: any insurance loss on it, the police contacted me to ask if I wanted the
: bike back because it was still my property. I wasn't sure but after
: seeing the dad and son, I decided to let them keep it. It was still in
: good shape, they had bought it in good faith, and I had already gotten a
: replacement, so I let them keep it (and filled out the transfer on the
: bike license that I still had). But I had no obligation to let them
: keep it because it was still my property. At no time did I surrender
: ownership. I could have taken it back because it was still mine. If I
: had offered it to the dad and son for $20 (which was definitely a
: "steal" on that bike), Alias would scream that I was raking them over
: yet the fact was that I would be SELLING them my old bike for only $20
: (it cost over $400 new and was all of maybe 2 years old but was used
: only a couple times). The dad and son would've been elated even if I
: had charged them $20 to relinquish my ownership (and actually offered me
: more than that but I didn't need it). I suppose there is some statue of
: limitation that says stolen property not returned after so many years is
: no longer your property (and getting paid by an insurance company
: definitely makes it no longer your property).
:
: Just because it is out of your control doesn't mean you lose ownership.
: Otherwise, you would lose ownership everyday when you left your car in
: the parking lot. You losing your car which is a major asset to some
: dupe that bought it from a thief means there is something else you
: aren't telling us. So when do you expect to lose your house because
: some con man sells it off to a dupe that is willing to buy it sight
: unseen but "in good faith"?
:
: Nowhere in the USA do you lose your ownership of your property because
: it was stolen. More likely the insurance paid off so it wasn't your car
: anymore, and the insurance company took it as a loss to offset their
: revenue so they legally already acquired the value of vehicle so they
: would be hard pressed to prove it was their property anymore (otherwise
: they would get double the value of the vehicle). Are the Mormons really
: that weird over there in Idaho that anything stolen becomes the property
: of some dupe that buys stolen goods from a thief? For some reason, the
: car was considered no longer your property.
:

 

[Bruce Chambers]

Did your insurance pay off for the stolen car? Did you claim the
insurance and get paid?

No, there was no insurance company to pay anything. The theft was by
fraud. I had turned to car over to a consignment dealer (who falsely
contracted to insure the car while it was in his possession) who
subsequently sold my car, along with roughly 20 others, and then skipped
town - and the state - with the proceeds. The dealer had had a legal
right to act as my agent in the sale, and the purchaser had no way of
knowing that the owner of the car would not get paid. The state's
Attorney General pursued the dealer, but declared that the new owners of
all 20 stolen cars could keep them, under Maine law, because they'd
purchased them in good faith.

I had to rebudget my finances for the next few years to pay for both
the car I no longer had and the new car I had purchased to replace it.


--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:



You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having
both at once. - RAH

 

[Bruce Chambers]

Don't the Mormons think that you will become a god of a planet or some jazz
like that.

No. Where'd you ever get such a silly idea? Try reading the Book of
Mormon, why don't you? For that matter, what do Mormons (one of the
least offensive of the various so-called Christian sects, in my
experience) or Jehovah's Witnesses (one of the more offensive cults,
again, in my experience) have to do with anything?


--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:



You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having
both at once. - RAH

 

[Bruce Chambers]

Are the Mormons really
that weird over there in Idaho that anything stolen becomes the property
of some dupe that buys stolen goods from a thief?

Oops, I missed this part when I snipped you long denial of reality.
Who said the the events to place in Idaho, or that Mormons had anything
to do with it? I have no idea to what particular brand of superstition
the thief subscribed, nor did I mention any such irrelevancy.



--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:



You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having
both at once. - RAH

 

[Vanguard]

No, there was no insurance company to pay anything. The theft was by
fraud. I had turned to car over to a consignment dealer (who falsely
contracted to insure the car while it was in his possession) who
subsequently sold my car, along with roughly 20 others, and then
skipped town - and the state - with the proceeds. The dealer had had
a legal right to act as my agent in the sale, and the purchaser had no
way of knowing that the owner of the car would not get paid. The
state's Attorney General pursued the dealer, but declared that the new
owners of all 20 stolen cars could keep them, under Maine law, because
they'd purchased them in good faith.

I had to rebudget my finances for the next few years to pay for both
the car I no longer had and the new car I had purchased to replace it.

Sounds like the State Attorney decided to split the fraud into 2
transactions (and charge the selling agent double the convictions): one
for the sale of the vehicle with the intent to defraud and another fraud
charge of not recompensing their partner (i.e., you) for monies received
from a sale.

Did the State Attorney ever qualify their decision by citing under which
Maine law(s) they could deem that you no longer had ownership of your
stolen property? I know how to look up the laws for my state but am not
familiar with Maine. Do you know the case number? Would be interesting
to lookup to see what the bases were for deciding every car owner lost
their ownership. Did you ever file your OWN charges against the dealer?
It does sound like you got raped twice, once by the consignment agent
and then again by your own state. I take it there was no insurance on
the car at the time to claim the loss. Bummer royal.

Did the consignee (the dealer you gave the right to *sell*, not own)
ever get convicted, did he just vaporize, or did the State Attorney
decide not to bother even charging the guy? I suppose since the
consignee did sell the car and the buyers forked over their money that
that State Attorney figures your beef is with the fraudulent consignee
(your temporary partner) that never gave you your portion of the sale.
Because you said that you had to continue paying the loan on the lost
property then it sounds like you also didn't have any insurance on it
yourself to cover the loss.

 

[Bruce Chambers]

Vanguard wrote:

Did the State Attorney ever qualify their decision by citing under which
Maine law(s) they could deem that you no longer had ownership of your
stolen property? I know how to look up the laws for my state but am not
familiar with Maine. Do you know the case number?

This all happened close to 20 years ago, so I no longer have any of the
documentation.

It does sound like you got raped twice, once by the consignment agent
and then again by your own state.

That pretty much sums up my feelings, at the time, as well.

Did the consignee (the dealer you gave the right to *sell*, not own)
ever get convicted, did he just vaporize, or did the State Attorney
decide not to bother even charging the guy?

They eventually (several years later) tracked the guy down somewhere in
Louisiana. His current employer was so enamored of him that he (the
employer) actually offered (and paid) restitution to all of the victims
as part of a settlement and plea bargain. I finally got back the amount
of money owed to me, plus a small adjustment for inflation and interest.


--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:



You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having
both at once. - RAH

 

[Vanguard]

This all happened close to 20 years ago, so I no longer have any of
the documentation.

Okay, gotcha. I asked a lawyer and the best he could give without
knowing all the facts is that it was likely that you had transferred the
title to the consignee so they could then sell it off (so you really no
longer owned the car). They sold it off and tranferred the title again.
If the buyers had gotten screwed then the consignee would be charged
with [intent to] defraud (or whatever was applicable based on the
consignee's actions, like it would be auto theft if the consignee
accepted the money but never delivered the car). With you, the
consignee committed fraud because he did not pay his partner (you) that
was included in the sale the portion designated in the consignment
contract. So, yeah, your fraud charge stops at the consignee and you
can't get your car back (because you did turnover title for it).

I remember when I sold off some pistols that the consignment contract
had me retain ownership, they had to call me before the sale could be
made to authorize the sale, but the contract did say that if I agreed
then then had my permission to transfer the ownership (so the buyer
could apply for a permit and I didn't have to go to the store although
that was still an option if I so chose). So I guess consignments are
handled differently and there is no such thing as "it's always done this
way".

That pretty much sums up my feelings, at the time, as well.

I bet it was a long time after getting reamed that you could eat lots of
beans with no gas buildup (i.e., an unrestricted exit).

They eventually (several years later) tracked the guy down somewhere
in Louisiana. His current employer was so enamored of him that he
(the employer) actually offered (and paid) restitution to all of the
victims as part of a settlement and plea bargain. I finally got back
the amount of money owed to me, plus a small adjustment for inflation
and interest.

Hurrah. A happy ending albeit belated. Somehow I wonder if the
employer and this guy weren't somehow related or maybe they were closer
than just coworkers (wink, wink). How much did the employer have to pay
since it was for 20 cars? Regardless of how enamored an employer is
with their workers, I doubt any want to incur a $50K, or higher, expense
(unless maybe it was a drop in a bucket for what this employee was
"earning" for his new employer). Apparently no one decided to press
charges and pursue them. Otherwise, bank robbers could simply "give
back the money" when the cops surrounded them to avoid being arrested
and convicted.

 

[Guest]

"thangys "??!

thangys !?????


You are the most annoying person i have ever met on a message board. Just
the way your write and the things you say urks me so bad i cant take it. If
you are to dumb enough to figure out how to change your serial number or get
a good working crakced version of xp then you deserve to pay for it. As a
matter of fact you should just throw out your computer and buy a ps2. I think
that is more your speed.