help with motherboard choice

[S.Boardman]

I want to upgrade my cpu to an XP2800+. I've double checked and found that I
can't use my current board MSI KT3 Ultra.

I want a new motherboard then, still an MSI. I figure although most of my
other components aren't bang up to date, I may as well get the most advanced
I can. (I have 4x AGP card, PC2700 RAM at the moment.)

I have a few questions about RAID. The new MSI K7N2 boards have Serial ATA
RAID. My current motherboard has two IDE hard drive connectors (with my DVD
in one) and two IDE RAID connectors, both filled each with one hard drive.
Is it just a question of changing cables? Or do I have to change hard
drives, which I don't want to do. If this is the case, do I need to ditch
the new K7N2 idea and get a board with ATA RAID? If MSI don't do one, any
other suggestions?
Needs to have five or six PCI slots, preferably 8x AGP, don't need on board
audio/lan/vga. Socket A obviously.
Thanks for your help. Please don't make it too technical, I'm not an expert!

 

[Mickey]

I am not exactly sure what you are asking about raid. Look up DFI Lanparty
Ultra NF2 this is the board I bought because I wanted the raid functionality
built in. The DFI sounds like your current setup. Gigabyte also makes one.

 

[John]

I want to upgrade my cpu to an XP2800+. I've double checked and found that I
can't use my current board MSI KT3 Ultra.

I want a new motherboard then, still an MSI. I figure although most of my
other components aren't bang up to date, I may as well get the most advanced
I can. (I have 4x AGP card, PC2700 RAM at the moment.)

Heres some posts from a site :

MSI's KT3 Ultra and Ultra-ARU, KT3V, will support up to XP2800 with
the 5.7 BIOS. 166 FSB is no problem

I decided to go the cheaper route and upgrade the CPU on the exisiting
M/B

CPU is now XP2800 , MB is MSI Kt3 Ultra2 (MSI6830E). I had a few
problems with the memory working at the required clock speed but all
seems to be OK now. CPU is seen as XP2800 and memory (PC2100) seems
stable.

---------------------------

Of course many boards have differences in revisions - 1.xxx being able
to go up to so and so CPU etc but I dont see any mention of this in
regards to the above. Saw another post in the MSI newsgroup - version
1.0 KTultra upgraded to a xp 2500.

I have a few questions about RAID. The new MSI K7N2 boards have Serial ATA
RAID. My current motherboard has two IDE hard drive connectors (with my DVD
in one) and two IDE RAID connectors, both filled each with one hard drive.
Is it just a question of changing cables?

Nope. You have to either get SATA HDs or get an adaptor for your IDE
HDs - which in the US cost around $30+ a piece. I didnt feel like
paying $60 for use two of my HDs on my SATA connectors and I need
lots of IDE channels so luckily my big 200 gig Maxtor came with a free
PCI IDE card which I use.

You can buy them here for around $20-30 or even cheaper on Ebay .
The one I have doesnt have raid but you can easily get a Silicon Image
card with it.

Do you need RAID?

Even 8x AGP I remember on Anand techs site they said it didnt make
much difference at all like ATA133 vs 100 etc.

Needs to have five or six PCI slots, preferably 8x AGP, don't need on board
audio/lan/vga. Socket A obviously.

If you need lots of PCI slots like I do then Id go for onboard
lan/sound so that you have a few extra slots open for the IDE card
should you go that route.

Put your ATAPI devices on the onboard IDE and the HDs on the card.

 

[David Schumann]

try the GA-7N400 pro2

 

[Ben Pope]

I want to upgrade my cpu to an XP2800+. I've double checked and found
that I can't use my current board MSI KT3 Ultra.

I'd be surprised, check here:

http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.html

I want a new motherboard then, still an MSI. I figure although most of my
other components aren't bang up to date, I may as well get the most
advanced I can. (I have 4x AGP card, PC2700 RAM at the moment.)

Go nForce. MSI do a couple.

I have a few questions about RAID. The new MSI K7N2 boards have Serial ATA
RAID. My current motherboard has two IDE hard drive connectors (with my
DVD in one) and two IDE RAID connectors, both filled each with one hard
drive. Is it just a question of changing cables? Or do I have to change
hard drives, which I don't want to do. If this is the case, do I need to
ditch the new K7N2 idea and get a board with ATA RAID? If MSI don't do
one, any other suggestions?

You'll need some PATA -> SATA adapters

Needs to have five or six PCI slots, preferably 8x AGP, don't need on
board audio/lan/vga. Socket A obviously.

Hmm. Onboard != bad, and if you're tight on PCI slots...

Ben

 

[S.Boardman]

I'd be surprised, check here:

http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.html

I wasn't thinking about overclocking... I looked at
http://www.msi.com.tw/program/support/cpu_support/cpu/spt_cpu_detail.php?UID
=11

Go nForce. MSI do a couple.

That's what I was hoping to use, it's backwards compatible, right?

You'll need some PATA -> SATA adapters

Didn't know about these? Can you expand?

Hmm. Onboard != bad, and if you're tight on PCI slots...

I *don't* need the onboard stuff. I have six slots at the moment, one vacant
next to the vga card, two others with extra USB slots, D-bracket, etc.

 

[Ben Pope]

I wasn't thinking about overclocking... I looked at
http://www.msi.com.tw/program/support/cpu_support/cpu/spt_cpu_detail.php?UID
=11

I wasn't either. Part of that that site details ways of getting your board
to work with a CPU that is not specifically supported.

That's what I was hoping to use, it's backwards compatible, right?

With what?

Didn't know about these? Can you expand?

Adaptors that allow you to use parallel ATA drives on a Serial ATA
controller. Be sure to get ones that support optical drives (ATAPI,
presumably) if you want that (which is not what you've described, but worth
mentioning)

I *don't* need the onboard stuff. I have six slots at the moment, one
vacant next to the vga card, two others with extra USB slots, D-bracket,
etc.

Fine...

Just pointing out that if a board is ideal for you, and, for example, has
onboard LAN but not enough PCI slots for you, you might be able to cope.

Ben

 

[S.Boardman]

S.Boardman wrote: [snip]

That's what I was hoping to use, it's backwards compatible, right?

With what?

FSB333, AGPx4, all the stuff that I use now with the KT3 Ultra.

Adaptors that allow you to use parallel ATA drives on a Serial ATA
controller. Be sure to get ones that support optical drives (ATAPI,
presumably) if you want that (which is not what you've described, but worth
mentioning)

This looks like it will solve the problem, then... I can use the old IDE
RAID drives on a new SATA RAID motherboard, is that right?
In this case, would the MSI K7N2 Delta-FISR be a good choice? I picked it
as it's an MSI nForce2 board, has SATA RAID, and in a vain attempt to future
proof, 400MHz FSB.

 

[Ben Pope]

FSB333, AGPx4, all the stuff that I use now with the KT3 Ultra.

FSB from 100 to 200MHz, AGP 2x to 8x (I think... not the 3V signalling,
which was the first AGP spec.)

This looks like it will solve the problem, then... I can use the old IDE
RAID drives on a new SATA RAID motherboard, is that right?
In this case, would the MSI K7N2 Delta-FISR be a good choice? I picked it
as it's an MSI nForce2 board, has SATA RAID, and in a vain attempt to
future proof, 400MHz FSB.

Hehe... future proof until about now. Anything newer will be 64bit and a
completely different socket. The current Barton core is probably maxed
out... with a die shrink they may extend the 200FSB processors a bit.

Check the price of the convertors before you dive in... They're not simple
passive devices, I think they're about £15/drive, but yes, they will allow
your P-ATA drives to run off the SATA interface... whether or not you can
keep your existing RAID partition, I don't know.

Ben

 

[kony]

I wasn't thinking about overclocking... I looked at
http://www.msi.com.tw/program/support/cpu_support/cpu/spt_cpu_detail.php?UID
=11

The issue on some KT333 boards, possibly that one also, is that at
166MHz (DDR333) FSB, the AGP is out of spec at 83MHz. This is not
"necessarily" a problem. If it were me, I'd buy the CPU, try it in
your present board. If you're expecting to play 3D games then run
them, see if your video card is happy at 83MHz... most are.


Dave

 

[S.Boardman]

snip!

Check the price of the convertors before you dive in... They're not simple
passive devices, I think they're about £15/drive, but yes, they will allow
your P-ATA drives to run off the SATA interface... whether or not you can
keep your existing RAID partition, I don't know.

Ben

Just when I thought I had it sorted *anguish* I don't mind paying the £15
for each cable. I don't wan't to mess up the hard drives, though. Please can
you explain this?

 

[Ben Pope]

snip!

Just when I thought I had it sorted *anguish* I don't mind paying the £15
for each cable. I don't wan't to mess up the hard drives, though. Please
can you explain this?

Different RAID adapter -> possibly deifferent way of configuring a partition
over two drives.

I don't know, I've never done it, but I wouldn't expect it to work, of
course... there COULD be a standard, and both parties MAY have followed it.

I would suspect that you may have to back the partition up, change
controller, repartition and then restore.

Ben

 

[Michael Brown]

Different RAID adapter -> possibly deifferent way of configuring a partition
over two drives.

I don't know, I've never done it, but I wouldn't expect it to work, of
course... there COULD be a standard, and both parties MAY have followed it.

I would suspect that you may have to back the partition up, change
controller, repartition and then restore.

I've never used RAID either, but from what I've heard you have a moderate
chance of success if:
(a) You aren't doing anything fancy, AND
(b) Both controller chipsets are from the same manufacturer (and ideally the
same product line)
Otherwise, it's unlikely to work (though there's always a chance).

 

[Ben Pope]

I've never used RAID either, but from what I've heard you have a moderate
chance of success if:
(a) You aren't doing anything fancy, AND

Whats "fancy"?

(b) Both controller chipsets are from the same manufacturer (and ideally
the same product line)

Well yeah, that would be the best case, but I think he'll be going from
Promise to SiI

Otherwise, it's unlikely to work (though there's always a chance).

Indeed. And probably a similar chance of corruption too.

Ben

 

[Michael Brown]

Whats "fancy"?

I may be completely wrong about this (see previous disclaimer ) but I
thought that some RAID controllers offered (non-standard) features like
dynamic load balancing (where it'd decide over time where the optimal place
to put data was, based on past usage), multiple logical drives, etc. These
obviously would not transfer well between different manufacturers.

[...]

 

[kony]

This looks like it will solve the problem, then... I can use the old IDE
RAID drives on a new SATA RAID motherboard, is that right?
In this case, would the MSI K7N2 Delta-FISR be a good choice? I picked it
as it's an MSI nForce2 board, has SATA RAID, and in a vain attempt to future
proof, 400MHz FSB.

At this point in time, trying to go "futureproof" on a socket A is an
attempt made in vain, there is no worthwhile upgrade course for that
motherboard after your currently-planned CPU. Eventually slighlty
faster CPUs will be more affordable, but will be much slower the the
other upgrade options at that time, and your memory isn't spec'd for
DDR400 either, so it'd also need replaced.

IMHO, the first thing you ought do is buy another PATA drive so you
can make backups of the current RAID. Odds are it will not be
transferrible to the new SATA RAID controller, you will have to back
it up, create the new array, and copy to the new array.

I'd still try upgrading your present motherboard with the new CPU.
The different between the old and new motherboard will be very little
performancewise, just running the old board at DDR333 will help, but
again it depends on whether your video card is happy, or if there's
some bios bug... could be tried with new CPU and then a new board
purchased if it didn't work properly.


Dave

 

[Wes Newell]

I want to upgrade my cpu to an XP2800+. I've double checked and found that I
can't use my current board MSI KT3 Ultra.

You can most certainly run a 2800+ (or faster) on the board. you just have
to know how.

 

[S.Boardman]

You can most certainly run a 2800+ (or faster) on the board. you just have
to know how.

Unfortunately, I'm not that technical, and didn't understand most of what it
was going on about (assuming you're talking about the link given early on
in the thread). When I got my current setup, I used the MSI overclocking
tool, but ending up reducing to just one step up (FSB 134? =1681Mhz
XP2000+) because it caused the machine to hang, and it was getting too hot.
I've left it like that because the memory wasn't the best.
If it's simple, I'll give it a go

 

[S.Boardman]

snip!

At this point in time, trying to go "futureproof" on a socket A is an
attempt made in vain, there is no worthwhile upgrade course for that
motherboard after your currently-planned CPU. Eventually slighlty
faster CPUs will be more affordable, but will be much slower the the
other upgrade options at that time, and your memory isn't spec'd for
DDR400 either, so it'd also need replaced.

IMHO, the first thing you ought do is buy another PATA drive so you
can make backups of the current RAID. Odds are it will not be
transferrible to the new SATA RAID controller, you will have to back
it up, create the new array, and copy to the new array.

I'd still try upgrading your present motherboard with the new CPU.
The different between the old and new motherboard will be very little
performancewise, just running the old board at DDR333 will help, but
again it depends on whether your video card is happy, or if there's
some bios bug... could be tried with new CPU and then a new board
purchased if it didn't work properly.

I can't do anything with the HDs until I get a new hs/fan. I'm not looking
forward to having to take the machine apart to put that in. Unless making a
XP2800+ work in my current m/board is easy, I'll get the XP2600+ which is
supposed to be the maximum it will take.

I also want to change the striping I've got now to mirroring, how do I do
that? I currently have 2 x 20Gb identical drives, as far as I can see each
on a different channel. How do I change it to the other?
I think I'd need to get a three 40Gb drives. One to copy the current data
to, and set the other two up as mirrored, and copy the data back.
Can I use the same drives for SATA RAID later, or are they special ones? I
have seen SATA drives listed to buy seperately from ATA. If I can use them
again, I might get 60Gb instead.
When partitioning mirrored drives, is it done both at the same time, or each
one seperately? I use Partition Magic.

 

[kony]

snip!
I can't do anything with the HDs until I get a new hs/fan. I'm not looking
forward to having to take the machine apart to put that in.

If your power supply has long enough leads, you might be able to
unscrew it at the back and sort-of hang it off to the side or prop it
up, then be able to access the heatsink clip to remove it and install
the new one. It's your call, it's a bit more difficult to do it that
way but certainly possible, it was how I usually did it before I made
that mangled-screwdriver tool I mentioned in a previous post. The
main thing is to take your time, be able to see what you're doing.

Unless making a
XP2800+ work in my current m/board is easy, I'll get the XP2600+ which is
supposed to be the maximum it will take.

I don't have experience with that particular board, but in general a
KT333 board will run a CPU with 166MHz, DDR333 FSB. Basically it's
just a matter of leaving the FSB at 133MHz, installing the new CPU,
then going into the BIOS and upping the FSB speed (or by jumper,
whichever applies), AND making sure the memory is set to same,
synchronous speed, not "+33". Just now I researched your board and
saw reports of it working even with the Bartons... you might as well
max out the board with a Barton then. See here:
http://makeashorterlink.com/?W16036346

I also want to change the striping I've got now to mirroring, how do I do
that?

You can't really change it. You have to copy off the data, then
delete the array, change to mirroring, effectively erasing it, then on
your fresh/empty mirror, copy back the data. Once you set up a RAID 0
there's nothing that can or should be done to it, which is part of the
reason why they're such a PITA unless you have plenty of backup
storage too.

I currently have 2 x 20Gb identical drives, as far as I can see each
on a different channel. How do I change it to the other?
I think I'd need to get a three 40Gb drives. One to copy the current data
to, and set the other two up as mirrored, and copy the data back.

You'd only need two new drives for the array... copy the data from the
old drives to one of the new... Not moving it, just copy it. Now,
depending on the abilities of the RAID controller (and it's bios-code)
you may be able to assign the new drive as one of a mirrored-set, and
choose to "rebuild" the array onto the second new drive, and you're
done. If you can't rebuild the array onto a second drive, or define
the array without wiping out the data, then you'd need to copy the
data again if necessary, making sure the new drive has the data
intact, and erase the old drives' array, then create a new array on
them as a span (if you want to reuse the present motherboard then
create a single volume spanning both old drives) or if you want a new
motherboard, create two single-drive spans, one on each drive. Either
way, you then have 40GB of space to copy back the data. Single-drive
spans are, AFAIK, transferrible to any other IDE controller the same
as if it weren't RAID-related at all, meaning it could be attached to
a new board's IDE port to copy the data to the larger drive array.

After confirming that the data is now again intact on the 2 old drives
as a span(s), you have both new drives available to create the
mirrored array on them.

Can I use the same drives for SATA RAID later, or are they special ones?

There's nothign special about SATA RAID, you just need the SATA
adapter another poster mentioned previously.

I
have seen SATA drives listed to buy seperately from ATA. If I can use them
again, I might get 60Gb instead.

You need at least one PATA drive, to be able to copy off your data
from the array on your current motherboard, then to use that new PATA
drive on a SATA controller, you'll need an adapter. The second drive
could be SATA.

When partitioning mirrored drives, is it done both at the same time, or each
one seperately? I use Partition Magic.

Once you have defined the drive-set as a mirror, that array is treated
as a single drive.


Dave